The real enemy

[Bfgrn]

A cynic is a man who knows the price of everything but the value of nothing.
Oscar Wilde

Uninsured Americans was a main focus of the legislation. But believe whatever you wish.

What Is (and Isn't) in the Healthcare Bill

1. Insurance for millions

Under the legislation, 32 million more people will have health insurance in 2019 than without the bill. That means that about 94 percent of all U.S. citizens will have insurance by the end of the decade. That still falls short of "universal coverage," but it's a significant increase from the 83 percent of American citizens who are covered today.

Can you figure out the problem, or do I need to spoonfeed you?

I'll have to spoonfeed you, of course.

32 million more people will have coverage. What about people to treat them?

There is a great deal of talk in the news and in the healthcare field regarding a possible shortage of physicians and surgeons in the U.S. in the coming years. According to many, the new healthcare reform plan that President Obama initiated and signed is partially to blame. The Association of American Medical Colleges (AAMC) estimates that 32 million previously uninsured Americans will acquire health insurance as a result of Obamacare. The addition of millions of new patients into the system could cause an estimated shortage of over 39,000 physicians by 2015.​

Sooo...more patients, not enough doctors. Care will be rationed. There is no way around it. People are going to die waiting for treatment.

Remind me again how much an improvement Obamacare is supposed to be...?

Education is the cheap defense of nations.
Edmund Burke

Remind me again how Republican cuts to education have benefited our nation?

Bill would raise cap on Medicare-funded residency slots

Legislation would give preference to positions in primary care, general surgery and other physician shortage specialties.

By Susan J. Landers, amednews staff. Posted May 28, 2009.

Washington -- Bills have been introduced in the Senate and House of Representatives to reduce current and projected physician shortages by increasing the number of Medicare-supported residency positions.

The measures, both called the Resident Physician Shortage Reduction Act of 2009, would expand the number of positions by 15%. The increase would amount to about 15,000 additional residency slots, bringing the total to approximately 115,000, the bills' sponsors said.

Preference for the positions would be given to primary care, general surgery, non-hospital community-based settings and other areas of need, according to the legislation.

The measures also would change regulations to let residents train in nonhospital settings. And they would allow residency slots from closed hospitals to be used by nearby teaching hospitals so the slots are not lost, as is currently the case.

The bills lift a cap placed by the Balanced Budget Act of 1997 on the number of resident physicians each teaching hospital can claim for reimbursement under Medicare. Medicare does not generally reimburse such hospitals for training residents beyond the capped number of slots.

The AMA supports the bills. "Although medical schools are increasing their class sizes and several new allopathic medical schools and colleges of osteopathic medicine are scheduled to open within the next few years, Medicare-funded GME residency positions have not increased," AMA Executive Vice President and CEO Michael D. Maves, MD, MBA, wrote in a letter to Senate and House bill sponsors.

The Senate measure was introduced by Sens. Bill Nelson (D, Fla.) and Charles Schumer (D, N.Y.) and Majority Leader Harry Reid (D, Nev.). The companion House bill was filed by Reps. Joseph Crowley (D, N.Y.), Kendrick Meek (D, Fla.) and Kathy Castor (D, Fla.).

"No health care reform effort will be complete or even adequate unless we address the shortage of doctors in this country," Schumer said in a statement.

amednews: Bill would raise cap on Medicare-funded residency slots :: May 28, 2009 ... American Medical News

 

[Mr.Nick]

Sad because the answer is easy.

 

[Harry Dresden]

What was Rush doing with a bottle of Viagra in his bag at Palm Beach International Airport with the prescription in someone else's name? Limbaugh was returning from a vacation in the Dominican Republic, a known haven for sweaty fat white men paying to have sex with underage prostitutes.

the DR is also a noted vacation getaway in the Caribbean....so i guess anyone who goes there, is there to find underage Prostitutes.....geezus....talk about speculating....

I guess you need a bottle of Viagra that is not prescribed to you so you can be the target during beach ring toss..

hey fuckhead......the place is a known getaway in the Caribbean.......it was even the featured place on the TV Show House Hunters International......i bet if one of the Kennedy's frequents there you will then have a different opinion of the place.....

 

[Harry Dresden]

The US and international involvement in Libya was to stop Qaddafi from committing genocide of his own people. WHAT don't you understand? So you are saying because of al Qaeda, Obama should let Qaddafi slaughter innocent people?

You need to begin thinking like an adult, not a child.

why is he not stopping Assad in Syria then?.....how about the guy in Yemen?.....maybe you should take your own advice.....

 

[Toomey2020]

Of course, I'm not saying all these programs suck. But, I am saying, that we do need a more competitive culture in America, and the Liberals sure aren't helping it. These programs encourage laziness within the common man.

The US is the third most competitive economy in the world, only eclipsed by Hong Kong and Singapore, which are essentially cities and not much of a comparison. These programs allow employers to pay a much lower wage for needed employees and are more about easing desperation than living fat off the taxpayer dime. Does this sound like living fat to you?

MO TANF Cash Benefit 1 child 234.00 per month, 60 more per month per additional family member
Food stamp benefit 350.00 per month for 1 child 60 more per month per additional family member
one annual payment of 135.00 against a utility
Medicaid

vs

Avg 2 bedroom rental in the area, 600.00/mo, if on public housing 75.00
avg utility bill 200.00/mo
medicaid co-pay 1.00-10.00
leaving 0 for toilet paper, shoes and clothing, soap, sheets, furniture, etc

And it's a 5 yr limit

I don't see it as much of an incentive.

You're going away from my point. My main point being, is that we have tons of people here in America, who have NO incentive to get up out of their couches, and go find a job. These people believe that it is alright to live at taxpayer expense, which is a crazy thought. Of course, some people need these programs, but, not all.

Now, my other point was, that many people (Like the person I refuted in my first post) believe the Conservatives abandon the average American, when that is not true at all. It is NOT the Conservative who digs this grave for the Avg. Amer. and says "Hey, keep living for free and just get by, but you will never be able to live above and beyond!". But, it IS the Conservative that is saying, "Hey, go to college, work hard, and you can accomplish whatever you want!".

Although, it is, in fact, the LIBERAL who is saying "Hey, you guys need help, so we'll give you these programs that encourages you to just get by, and NEVER live above and beyond!"

If you do not know me, which you don't, I hate to just say that everybody abuses the system, but, I believe a ton of people do. Some people truly need these programs that are offered, but, I believe there are better solutions out there than to just hand people free housing, health care, food, etc.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Why would bright young people want to spend 12 years of their lives training for a career that will pay them about what an illegal Mexican makes?

Geezus.....and you talk about Dean and TM's bullshit..........

 

[Steelplate]

And that will take ten years minimum if you start tomorrow. It takes that long for med school, internship, and residency. Specialties can take even longer.

So the problem is NOT solved -- especially when you factor in the aging boomer population, the increased government interference in medicine, outrageous malpractice insurance premiums, and the decline in general practitioners, who don't make enough money for all the bullshit to be tolerable.

So, it takes 10 years... big deal. We keep bringing in foreign Doctors till we catch up. You see, in other countries, being a Doctor is important... not here... here, it's all about How much money you can make... "Sell your soul, you'll have fine homes and nice cars!"

You know what is the problem with you guys? You want it all NOW, and you are willing to destroy our people to get it.


Ahhh... the old "aging Boomer" Myth. Ok... I'll bite. I didn't get the memo where boomers are immortal. When did that happen? Yes, Boomers are aging which will be a TEMPORARY spike on our resources(SS, Medicare, etc). But they(we? I was born in '65) will die off, then that problem will be solved also.

 

[Bfgrn]

Of course, I'm not saying all these programs suck. But, I am saying, that we do need a more competitive culture in America, and the Liberals sure aren't helping it. These programs encourage laziness within the common man.

The US is the third most competitive economy in the world, only eclipsed by Hong Kong and Singapore, which are essentially cities and not much of a comparison. These programs allow employers to pay a much lower wage for needed employees and are more about easing desperation than living fat off the taxpayer dime. Does this sound like living fat to you?

MO TANF Cash Benefit 1 child 234.00 per month, 60 more per month per additional family member
Food stamp benefit 350.00 per month for 1 child 60 more per month per additional family member
one annual payment of 135.00 against a utility
Medicaid

vs

Avg 2 bedroom rental in the area, 600.00/mo, if on public housing 75.00
avg utility bill 200.00/mo
medicaid co-pay 1.00-10.00
leaving 0 for toilet paper, shoes and clothing, soap, sheets, furniture, etc

And it's a 5 yr limit

I don't see it as much of an incentive.

You're going away from my point. My main point being, is that we have tons of people here in America, who have NO incentive to get up out of their couches, and go find a job. These people believe that it is alright to live at taxpayer expense, which is a crazy thought. Of course, some people need these programs, but, not all.

Now, my other point was, that many people (Like the person I refuted in my first post) believe the Conservatives abandon the average American, when that is not true at all. It is NOT the Conservative who digs this grave for the Avg. Amer. and says "Hey, keep living for free and just get by, but you will never be able to live above and beyond!". But, it IS the Conservative that is saying, "Hey, go to college, work hard, and you can accomplish whatever you want!".

Although, it is, in fact, the LIBERAL who is saying "Hey, you guys need help, so we'll give you these programs that encourages you to just get by, and NEVER live above and beyond!"

If you do not know me, which you don't, I hate to just say that everybody abuses the system, but, I believe a ton of people do. Some people truly need these programs that are offered, but, I believe there are better solutions out there than to just hand people free housing, health care, food, etc.

What you just stated nothing more than a window into YOUR lack of character and YOUR ignorance. You can't speak for other peoples intentions or motivations. So all you can base it on is yourself.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Care will be rationed.

Care is already rationed. Unfortunately, it is currently rationed on a price basis rather than a medical basis. There are a number of changes that are currently occurring that are hopeful, the nurse practitioner, the move to pay based on wellness instead of fee for service, the triumph of the anti-smoking faction, transportation safety improvements, etc. But denying maintenance healthcare to the chronically ill ensures that when they finally come in it will be catastrophic, expensive and accounted for by overcharging everyone else.

And yep, the GOP has no love for the wage earner. Much love for the businessman, but not so much his/her employees.

You really think, when the government's running healthcare, that care will be rationed based on medical need?

It won't. It will be rationed based on cost. And, possibly, on which party the patient contributed to.

thats what happened with my dad.....Doctor wanted to send him to the Joslin Diabetes Center at UCI Med Center....Medicare said no....to expensive.....he also was carrying Blue Shield as a supplement.....they ok'd it without a hassle....

 

[Bfgrn]

the DR is also a noted vacation getaway in the Caribbean....so i guess anyone who goes there, is there to find underage Prostitutes.....geezus....talk about speculating....

I guess you need a bottle of Viagra that is not prescribed to you so you can be the target during beach ring toss..

hey fuckhead......the place is a known getaway in the Caribbean.......it was even the featured place on the TV Show House Hunters International......i bet if one of the Kennedy's frequents there you will then have a different opinion of the place.....

You keep avoiding the Viagra...why? WHAT did Rush need it for, so he would not roll out of bed?

 

[The Rabbi]

Why would bright young people want to spend 12 years of their lives training for a career that will pay them about what an illegal Mexican makes?

Geezus.....and you talk about Dean and TM's bullshit..........

So you think if you cut doctors' salaries then people will go flocking to med school?
If so you're dumber than the libs here.

 

[The Rabbi]

And that will take ten years minimum if you start tomorrow. It takes that long for med school, internship, and residency. Specialties can take even longer.

So the problem is NOT solved -- especially when you factor in the aging boomer population, the increased government interference in medicine, outrageous malpractice insurance premiums, and the decline in general practitioners, who don't make enough money for all the bullshit to be tolerable.

So, it takes 10 years... big deal. We keep bringing in foreign Doctors till we catch up. You see, in other countries, being a Doctor is important... not here... here, it's all about How much money you can make... "Sell your soul, you'll have fine homes and nice cars!"

You know what is the problem with you guys? You want it all NOW, and you are willing to destroy our people to get it.


Ahhh... the old "aging Boomer" Myth. Ok... I'll bite. I didn't get the memo where boomers are immortal. When did that happen? Yes, Boomers are aging which will be a TEMPORARY spike on our resources(SS, Medicare, etc). But they(we? I was born in '65) will die off, then that problem will be solved also.

If foreign doctors aren't concerned with making money then why do they want to come here?

The boomer generation started in 1946. It ended about 1963. That's 17 years at a minimum. Do you want 17 years of strained resources and rationed health care?

 

[Harry Dresden]

What was Rush doing with a bottle of Viagra in his bag at Palm Beach International Airport with the prescription in someone else's name? Limbaugh was returning from a vacation in the Dominican Republic, a known haven for sweaty fat white men paying to have sex with underage prostitutes.

the DR is also a noted vacation getaway in the Caribbean....so i guess anyone who goes there, is there to find underage Prostitutes.....geezus....talk about speculating....

A getaway for drug smugglers and other criminals.

Dominican Republic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Crime

The Dominican Republic has become a trans-shipment point for Colombian drugs destined to Europe as well as the United States and Canada.[1][90] Money laundering via the Dominican Republic is favored by Colombian drug cartels for the ease of illicit financial transactions.[1] In 2004 it was estimated that 8% of all cocaine smuggled into the United States had come through the Dominican Republic.[91] The Dominican Republic responded with increased efforts to seize drug shipments, arrest and extradite those involved, and combat money-laundering.


The often light treatment of violent criminals has been a continuous source of local controversy. In April 2010, five teenagers ages 15 to 17 (including 2 females) shot and killed two taxi drivers and killed another five by forcing them to drink drain cleaning acid. On September 24, 2010, the teens were sentenced to only 3–5 year prison terms, despite the protests of the taxi drivers' families.[92]


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rm1kvdjrm2Y]YouTube - ‪THE MARINES HAVE LANDED ON THE SHORES OF SANTO DOMINGO PHIL OCHS‬‏[/ame]

that happens here in S.Central LA.....say what you want.....the Country was featured on a TV Show.....theres a part of the DR....that only the people who have been there know about.....and it looks just like any neighborhood in S.Cal.....

 

[Steelplate]

If foreign doctors aren't concerned with making money then why do they want to come here?

The boomer generation started in 1946. It ended about 1963. That's 17 years at a minimum. Do you want 17 years of strained resources and rationed health care?

on the first.... way to avoid the point.

Yeah. I do. Once again, you guys are incapable of thinking long term... you want it all... NOW.

Those 17 years of what you call "Strained resources and rationed health care" are happening now because of the system in place. But, I know... it's OK to let people die because of insurance Company Policy or because they can't afford treatment... that type of rationing is just fine with you folks. It's just that maybe Some rich babe may have to wait a little while for her facelift while someone gets a Heart Bypass, or an accident victim gets their life saved.

It's called Triage, dolt... It's used in Emergency Rooms across the nation.... Dude comes in with his arm hanging by a piece of flesh gets priority over a broken arm... a guy that comes in with a heart attack gets priority over someone with the flu. That prioritizing would take place across the board, instead of just in the ER. Truthfully, that's the way it should be.

 

[The Rabbi]

If foreign doctors aren't concerned with making money then why do they want to come here?

The boomer generation started in 1946. It ended about 1963. That's 17 years at a minimum. Do you want 17 years of strained resources and rationed health care?

on the first.... way to avoid the point.

Yeah. I do. Once again, you guys are incapable of thinking long term... you want it all... NOW.

Those 17 years of what you call "Strained resources and rationed health care" are happening now because of the system in place. But, I know... it's OK to let people die because of insurance Company Policy or because they can't afford treatment... that type of rationing is just fine with you folks. It's just that maybe Some rich babe may have to wait a little while for her facelift while someone gets a Heart Bypass, or an accident victim gets their life saved.

It's called Triage, dolt... It's used in Emergency Rooms across the nation.... Dude comes in with his arm hanging by a piece of flesh gets priority over a broken arm... a guy that comes in with a heart attack gets priority over someone with the flu. That prioritizing would take place across the board, instead of just in the ER. Truthfully, that's the way it should be.

I addressed your point, idiot. If you are counting on foreign doctors to come here and you maintain they aren't concerned about money then why would they want to come?

So you are admitting we need death panels to ration care. That's at least more honest than you've been until now.

 

[Old Rocks]

Of course, I'm not saying all these programs suck. But, I am saying, that we do need a more competitive culture in America, and the Liberals sure aren't helping it. These programs encourage laziness within the common man.

The US is the third most competitive economy in the world, only eclipsed by Hong Kong and Singapore, which are essentially cities and not much of a comparison. These programs allow employers to pay a much lower wage for needed employees and are more about easing desperation than living fat off the taxpayer dime. Does this sound like living fat to you?

MO TANF Cash Benefit 1 child 234.00 per month, 60 more per month per additional family member
Food stamp benefit 350.00 per month for 1 child 60 more per month per additional family member
one annual payment of 135.00 against a utility
Medicaid

vs

Avg 2 bedroom rental in the area, 600.00/mo, if on public housing 75.00
avg utility bill 200.00/mo
medicaid co-pay 1.00-10.00
leaving 0 for toilet paper, shoes and clothing, soap, sheets, furniture, etc

And it's a 5 yr limit

I don't see it as much of an incentive.

You're going away from my point. My main point being, is that we have tons of people here in America, who have NO incentive to get up out of their couches, and go find a job. These people believe that it is alright to live at taxpayer expense, which is a crazy thought. Of course, some people need these programs, but, not all.

Now, my other point was, that many people (Like the person I refuted in my first post) believe the Conservatives abandon the average American, when that is not true at all. It is NOT the Conservative who digs this grave for the Avg. Amer. and says "Hey, keep living for free and just get by, but you will never be able to live above and beyond!". But, it IS the Conservative that is saying, "Hey, go to college, work hard, and you can accomplish whatever you want!".

Although, it is, in fact, the LIBERAL who is saying "Hey, you guys need help, so we'll give you these programs that encourages you to just get by, and NEVER live above and beyond!"

If you do not know me, which you don't, I hate to just say that everybody abuses the system, but, I believe a ton of people do. Some people truly need these programs that are offered, but, I believe there are better solutions out there than to just hand people free housing, health care, food, etc.

Well, yes, there are a ton of 'Conservatives' in those red states that depend on us liberals to support them.

TaxProf Blog: Red States Feed at Federal Trough, Blue States Supply the Feed

Red States Feed at Federal Trough, Blue States Supply the Feed
Monday, September 27, 2004

The Tax Foundation has released a fascinating report showing which states benefit from federal tax and spending policies, and which states foot the bill.

So why don't you 'Conservatives' get off the coach and get a job? I am getting getting closer to 70 and am going to retire and cease to support your lazy asses.

 

[Steelplate]

I addressed your point, idiot. If you are counting on foreign doctors to come here and you maintain they aren't concerned about money then why would they want to come?

So you are admitting we need death panels to ration care. That's at least more honest than you've been until now.

No you didn't. You just put up a sentence that you feel was addressing the point.

Who said anything about Death Panels?

Ok... I see what I am dealing with... A fuckin' jerk who only knows Fanatical "Wingerese"

You are dismissed. I won, you lost. When I get you guys to resort to these types of messages instead of actual discussion, I know that you have nothing more to add. Cya.

 

[Bfgrn]

Maybe there is still hope for America.

"There is inherited wealth in this country and also inherited poverty. And unless the graduates of this college and other colleges like it who are given a running start in life--unless they are willing to put back into our society, those talents, the broad sympathy, the understanding, the compassion--unless they are willing to put those qualities back into the service of the Great Republic, then obviously the presuppositions upon which our democracy are based are bound to be fallible.

Robert Frost said:

Two roads diverged in a wood, and I--
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.

I hope that road will not be the less traveled by, and I hope your commitment to the Great Republic's interest in the years to come will be worthy of your long inheritance since your beginning."

President John F. Kennedy
Amherst, Massachusetts
October 26, 1963

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doctors Inc.
As Physicians’ Jobs Change, So Do Their Politics

Doctors were once overwhelmingly male and usually owned their own practices. They generally favored lower taxes and regularly fought lawyers to restrict patient lawsuits. Ronald Reagan came to national political prominence in part by railing against “socialized medicine” on doctors’ behalf.

But doctors are changing. They are abandoning their own practices and taking salaried jobs in hospitals, particularly in the North, but increasingly in the South as well. Half of all younger doctors are women, and that share is likely to grow.

There are no national surveys that track doctors’ political leanings, but as more doctors move from business owner to shift worker, their historic alliance with the Republican Party is weakening from Maine as well as South Dakota, Arizona and Oregon, according to doctors’ advocates in those and other states.

More

 

[Mr. Shaman]

that fat tub of shit junkie dangerous?

Why bring Ed Schultz in to the conversation?

Do you really want to compare the Rush 'the drugster' and draft dodger to Ed Shultz, All-American quarterback and NAIA passing leader in 1977?

Although Rush's fat ass is famous...he was able to get out of serving in the during the Vietnam War when he got a medical deferment from a private doctor. Poor Rush had a dreaded pilonidal cyst on his posterior...translation: an ingrown hair follicle on his ass...

Well.....there's that....and, his....

.....other-issue.....

​

 

[daveman]

Care is already rationed. Unfortunately, it is currently rationed on a price basis rather than a medical basis. There are a number of changes that are currently occurring that are hopeful, the nurse practitioner, the move to pay based on wellness instead of fee for service, the triumph of the anti-smoking faction, transportation safety improvements, etc. But denying maintenance healthcare to the chronically ill ensures that when they finally come in it will be catastrophic, expensive and accounted for by overcharging everyone else.

And yep, the GOP has no love for the wage earner. Much love for the businessman, but not so much his/her employees.

You really think, when the government's running healthcare, that care will be rationed based on medical need?

It won't. It will be rationed based on cost. And, possibly, on which party the patient contributed to.

It will be rationed the way it currently is in other government funded healthcare programs. Through the use of best practices and efficacy. Does Medicare and Medicaid currently check your party contributions prior to delivering services? Now, if you want to address marginal benefit or experimental treatments again, the current private insurance system will deny coverage for such also. And again, you can always hit the retail market if you think you really need it. As a plus on govt-funded, I predict it will be really efficient at matching patients seeking new untried treatments with clinical trials.

The government does nothing efficiently. Seriously.