The real enemy

[Toomey2020]

Of course, I'm not saying all these programs suck. But, I am saying, that we do need a more competitive culture in America, and the Liberals sure aren't helping it. These programs encourage laziness within the common man.

You're going away from my point. My main point being, is that we have tons of people here in America, who have NO incentive to get up out of their couches, and go find a job. These people believe that it is alright to live at taxpayer expense, which is a crazy thought. Of course, some people need these programs, but, not all.

Now, my other point was, that many people (Like the person I refuted in my first post) believe the Conservatives abandon the average American, when that is not true at all. It is NOT the Conservative who digs this grave for the Avg. Amer. and says "Hey, keep living for free and just get by, but you will never be able to live above and beyond!". But, it IS the Conservative that is saying, "Hey, go to college, work hard, and you can accomplish whatever you want!".

Although, it is, in fact, the LIBERAL who is saying "Hey, you guys need help, so we'll give you these programs that encourages you to just get by, and NEVER live above and beyond!"

If you do not know me, which you don't, I hate to just say that everybody abuses the system, but, I believe a ton of people do. Some people truly need these programs that are offered, but, I believe there are better solutions out there than to just hand people free housing, health care, food, etc.

What you just stated nothing more than a window into YOUR lack of character and YOUR ignorance. You can't speak for other peoples intentions or motivations. So all you can base it on is yourself.

How is that ignorant? Everything I stated in that post is facts. There is no denying anything I said, and if you want to attempt to refute that, than go ahead. But, do not go ahead and call me ignorant with no explanation rather than just saying I'm speaking for others.

 

[Toomey2020]

Of course, I'm not saying all these programs suck. But, I am saying, that we do need a more competitive culture in America, and the Liberals sure aren't helping it. These programs encourage laziness within the common man.

You're going away from my point. My main point being, is that we have tons of people here in America, who have NO incentive to get up out of their couches, and go find a job. These people believe that it is alright to live at taxpayer expense, which is a crazy thought. Of course, some people need these programs, but, not all.

Now, my other point was, that many people (Like the person I refuted in my first post) believe the Conservatives abandon the average American, when that is not true at all. It is NOT the Conservative who digs this grave for the Avg. Amer. and says "Hey, keep living for free and just get by, but you will never be able to live above and beyond!". But, it IS the Conservative that is saying, "Hey, go to college, work hard, and you can accomplish whatever you want!".

Although, it is, in fact, the LIBERAL who is saying "Hey, you guys need help, so we'll give you these programs that encourages you to just get by, and NEVER live above and beyond!"

If you do not know me, which you don't, I hate to just say that everybody abuses the system, but, I believe a ton of people do. Some people truly need these programs that are offered, but, I believe there are better solutions out there than to just hand people free housing, health care, food, etc.

Well, yes, there are a ton of 'Conservatives' in those red states that depend on us liberals to support them.

The Tax Foundation has released a fascinating report showing which states benefit from federal tax and spending policies, and which states foot the bill.

So why don't you 'Conservatives' get off the coach and get a job? I am getting getting closer to 70 and am going to retire and cease to support your lazy asses.

You're argument is totally irrelevant, because in fact, my argument was that Conservatives do NOT support most of the programs that the Liberals do. Now, with that being said, does that mean there are tons of conservatives who sit on a couch all day? Of course. But, the leaders in our nations capital, who are conservatives, do NOT encourage these lazy habits.

Are you going to attempt to refute any of that?

 

[Steelplate]

I realize I am dealing with someone who might have a 6th grade education. Thus communication is hard. But even Miss McGillicuddy, your beloved teacher, taught you that "?" follows a question, right. Note my post where one sentence ends with a "?" indicating a question being asked.
Since you cannot recognize a question I would be shocked if you could actually answer it.
But I'll try again: If you think that foreign doctors are motivated by something other than money then why would they want to come here to practice?
Surely you understand that your use of "triage" means not just this minute but overall. Thus some people will be judged to have medical needs whose cost exceeds what the system is willing to pay. Those people will not get necessary medical care. Therefore they will die.

To learn skills from our doctors?

I think you're full of shit about the Death Panels thing... It's you're paranoia that makes you so fucked up. Triage is not even close to being about COST!!!! It's about who gets care first.

Now, if you'd like to have an "end of life" discussion, let's do it.

Let me ask you something.... If I were 90 years old and needed a new heart, and you needed the same heart, but were 30... who should get the damned heart? First off, If I were in that position... I'd tell them to give you the damned heart(God knows you need one). But besides that, If I were a selfish bastard and wanted the heart... Then Common sense should prevail. I don't care if I am a billionaire and you are a bricklayer. You should get the heart.

 

[Steelplate]

Well, yes, there are a ton of 'Conservatives' in those red states that depend on us liberals to support them.

The Tax Foundation has released a fascinating report showing which states benefit from federal tax and spending policies, and which states foot the bill.

So why don't you 'Conservatives' get off the coach and get a job? I am getting getting closer to 70 and am going to retire and cease to support your lazy asses.

You're argument is totally irrelevant, because in fact, my argument was that Conservatives do NOT support most of the programs that the Liberals do. Now, with that being said, does that mean there are tons of conservatives who sit on a couch all day? Of course. But, the leaders in our nations capital, who are conservatives, do NOT encourage these lazy habits.

Are you going to attempt to refute any of that?

I don't know about all of that stuff, but I do know one thing....I'm from PA and Pat Toomey is a douchebag. he rode the Tea Party Train all the way baby! Let's see him put up or shut up.

 

[Toomey2020]

You're argument is totally irrelevant, because in fact, my argument was that Conservatives do NOT support most of the programs that the Liberals do. Now, with that being said, does that mean there are tons of conservatives who sit on a couch all day? Of course. But, the leaders in our nations capital, who are conservatives, do NOT encourage these lazy habits.

Are you going to attempt to refute any of that?

I don't know about all of that stuff, but I do know one thing....I'm from PA and Pat Toomey is a douchebag. he rode the Tea Party Train all the way baby! Let's see him put up or shut up.

Toomey is actually my Uncle, hahahaa.... So I might be a little bias to start off, but he is more valid for that position than Sestak would ever be.

 

[The Rabbi]

I realize I am dealing with someone who might have a 6th grade education. Thus communication is hard. But even Miss McGillicuddy, your beloved teacher, taught you that "?" follows a question, right. Note my post where one sentence ends with a "?" indicating a question being asked.
Since you cannot recognize a question I would be shocked if you could actually answer it.
But I'll try again: If you think that foreign doctors are motivated by something other than money then why would they want to come here to practice?
Surely you understand that your use of "triage" means not just this minute but overall. Thus some people will be judged to have medical needs whose cost exceeds what the system is willing to pay. Those people will not get necessary medical care. Therefore they will die.

To learn skills from our doctors?

I think you're full of shit about the Death Panels thing... It's you're paranoia that makes you so fucked up. Triage is not even close to being about COST!!!! It's about who gets care first.

Now, if you'd like to have an "end of life" discussion, let's do it.

Let me ask you something.... If I were 90 years old and needed a new heart, and you needed the same heart, but were 30... who should get the damned heart? First off, If I were in that position... I'd tell them to give you the damned heart(God knows you need one). But besides that, If I were a selfish bastard and wanted the heart... Then Common sense should prevail. I don't care if I am a billionaire and you are a bricklayer. You should get the heart.

There is no paranoia. I am making the logical deduction of what you yourself write.
You write that to contain costs we need a triage system. In a triage system resources are allocated to the most needy first. Logically some people are not going to get the optimum level of care. Logically that means some people are going to die sooner than if they had the optimum level of care. Who makes that decision? IN Obamacare it is an unelected, unaccountable panel. Thus they are a deal panel, in effect.

Your question is a little extreme.
Let's try something more real world.
My mother is 83 and in great health (she works out in the gym every day). However it is possible she has contracted stomach cancer. Now, she could get expensive surgery and chemo and could live into her 90s. Or she could jsut get palliative care and live 9 months. Which should she get, given that palliative care will be about 10% of full treatment? And who ought to make that decision?

 

[daveman]

What you just stated nothing more than a window into YOUR lack of character and YOUR ignorance. You can't speak for other peoples intentions or motivations. So all you can base it on is yourself.

How is that ignorant? Everything I stated in that post is facts. There is no denying anything I said, and if you want to attempt to refute that, than go ahead. But, do not go ahead and call me ignorant with no explanation rather than just saying I'm speaking for others.

It's "ignorant" because he has no rational rebuttal.

 

[eflatminor]

I don't care if I am a billionaire and you are a bricklayer. You should get the heart.

Do you feel the same way about all products and services? If the bricklayer needs a house more than the billionaire, should we also make the billionaire pay for the bricklayer's house too? How about a car? A television set? How about toilet paper? You are suggesting that, for healthcare at least, the standard should be from each according to his abilities to each according to their need. That idea has never worked for very long. Why do you think it would work here?

 

[Bfgrn]

Don't try and spin this....how much waste and fraud is part of the Medicare debt?
However you want to spin it....makes no difference to me, it's unsustainable, and even your buddy Bill Clinton is in agreement with that. Right now it's estimated it will all blow up in 2024. But, hey...it's a campaign year, I get it.

I am not 'spinning' anything. Medicare problems are not due to administrative expenses. The major problems are fraud, not waste. And the perpetrators are hospitals, doctors and medical suppliers.

It is the very people you right wing 'free marketeers' trust and worship who are the fucking crooks. They, not seniors are feeding at the government trough. But they are 'white collar' crooks, not evil crimes by lowly poor people.

I'm saying with low administrative costs they have a huge debt. The government can't run anything efficiently...yet you leftwingers believe the government is the only answer. I have to laugh at that.

What is it you don't comprehend? Medicare does not collect monthly premiums. So it is a funding issue. There is no way a private 'for profit' entity could operate Medicare at 3% administrative costs, so with the SAME funding, the debt would 100 times worse.

 

[Bfgrn]

What you just stated nothing more than a window into YOUR lack of character and YOUR ignorance. You can't speak for other peoples intentions or motivations. So all you can base it on is yourself.

How is that ignorant? Everything I stated in that post is facts. There is no denying anything I said, and if you want to attempt to refute that, than go ahead. But, do not go ahead and call me ignorant with no explanation rather than just saying I'm speaking for others.

You can only say what motives you or what makes you sit on the couch. Your right wing social engineering is textbook conservative mantra...'punishment' It is how conservatives were raised. Wealth and material things are the only gauge of person's worth.

The American people are not lazy and they are not pampered. Worker productivity keeps rising and wages have remained flat for decades. The American worker is hurting. But all they need is punishment...

Have you ever heard of a bleeding heart Republican?
Paul Craig Roberts - the father of Reaganomics

 

[Toomey2020]

How is that ignorant? Everything I stated in that post is facts. There is no denying anything I said, and if you want to attempt to refute that, than go ahead. But, do not go ahead and call me ignorant with no explanation rather than just saying I'm speaking for others.

You can only say what motives you or what makes you sit on the couch. Your right wing social engineering is textbook conservative mantra...'punishment' It is how conservatives were raised. Wealth and material things are the only gauge of person's worth.

The American people are not lazy and they are not pampered. Worker productivity keeps rising and wages have remained flat for decades. The American worker is hurting. But all they need is punishment...

Have you ever heard of a bleeding heart Republican?
Paul Craig Roberts - the father of Reaganomics

Once again, you're argument is irrelevant.

Answer this question:

Who supports the idea of free housing, universal health care, food stamps, welfare, and social security?

The party that does, is undeniably encouraging the lack of work. Now, if you're going to attempt to refute that, than go ahead. But, do not twist the question around and tell me Americans aren't lazy, because, I am directing this question at the people that are lazy, and the general public that this applies to.

 

[Toomey2020]

In addition, please do not tell me what motivates people and what doesn't when it's pretty basic.

If I'm collecting those programs and living the life (Sleeping, eating, watching tv.), than chances are I don't want to go out to look for a job. If it doesn't encourage laziness, than what the hell does it encourage?

 

[daveman]

You can only say what motives you or what makes you sit on the couch. Your right wing social engineering is textbook conservative mantra...'punishment' It is how conservatives were raised. Wealth and material things are the only gauge of person's worth.

The American people are not lazy and they are not pampered. Worker productivity keeps rising and wages have remained flat for decades. The American worker is hurting. But all they need is punishment...

Have you ever heard of a bleeding heart Republican?
Paul Craig Roberts - the father of Reaganomics

You don't actually know any conservatives in real life, do you?

 

[The T]

You can only say what motives you or what makes you sit on the couch. Your right wing social engineering is textbook conservative mantra...'punishment' It is how conservatives were raised. Wealth and material things are the only gauge of person's worth.

The American people are not lazy and they are not pampered. Worker productivity keeps rising and wages have remained flat for decades. The American worker is hurting. But all they need is punishment...

Have you ever heard of a bleeding heart Republican?
Paul Craig Roberts - the father of Reaganomics

You don't actually know any conservatives in real life, do you?

Bufu is a paid Soros shill...what do you expect?

 

[daveman]

You can only say what motives you or what makes you sit on the couch. Your right wing social engineering is textbook conservative mantra...'punishment' It is how conservatives were raised. Wealth and material things are the only gauge of person's worth.

The American people are not lazy and they are not pampered. Worker productivity keeps rising and wages have remained flat for decades. The American worker is hurting. But all they need is punishment...

Have you ever heard of a bleeding heart Republican?
Paul Craig Roberts - the father of Reaganomics

You don't actually know any conservatives in real life, do you?

Bufu is a paid Soros shill...what do you expect?

Soros sets his hiring standards remarkably low.

 

[Bfgrn]

You can only say what motives you or what makes you sit on the couch. Your right wing social engineering is textbook conservative mantra...'punishment' It is how conservatives were raised. Wealth and material things are the only gauge of person's worth.

The American people are not lazy and they are not pampered. Worker productivity keeps rising and wages have remained flat for decades. The American worker is hurting. But all they need is punishment...

Have you ever heard of a bleeding heart Republican?
Paul Craig Roberts - the father of Reaganomics

You don't actually know any conservatives in real life, do you?

You know Daveman, I am more of a conservative than you, Toomey or any of the other right wing authoritarians who call themselves 'conservative'.

I was raised in the 1950's. My dad was the sole provider, and my mom was a housewife and mother. It wasn't called 'family values', it was just family. When I came home from school, no matter what kind of day I had, it immediately became brighter when I walked in the door to an enthusiastic 'Hi honey' from my mom. It not only brightened my day, it helped build self worth and create and reinforce a positive self image. All my friends and school mates had a similar story...a father that worked and a mother that stayed home to raise and nurture their children. None of us kids ever knew or even cared what anyone's father did for a living. None of us had to go without; food, clothing, pets, bikes, baseball gloves, doctor care (our doctor used to come to the house), a real quality education with all the extras; sports, arts, school run ice rink, summer basketball programs etc. But none of us were pampered or spoiled either.

THAT is exactly what I want for my kids and for my grand-kids.

So, what is conservatism? In my opinion, it is respect for the past and the wisdom of our ancestors. Their lives were built on their ancestors and so it goes, from one generation to the next. You ultimately respect the lives and toil of our ancestors not by paying lip service or using empty rhetoric like 'family values'. You do it by embracing their lessons learned; respecting the policies, regulations and programs they crafted that increased the benefits and lessened the losses in our communities and our society we reap the benefits of.

How did our ancestors craft them, were they based on some 'ideology'? I believe they were based on common sense, common decency, experience, trial and error, community activism, elections and community involvement.

So...In a very real way I AM truly a conservative.

Are ANY of the people that now call themselves conservatives today looking for common sense, common decency solutions to benefit their families and their community, or are they ideologues, that want to dismantle any shred of COMMunity and replace it with SELF interest?

That is not 'conservatism', that is narcissism.

"You shall rise in the presence of grey hairs, give honor to the aged, and fear God, I am the Lord"
Leviticus 19:32

 

[daveman]

You can only say what motives you or what makes you sit on the couch. Your right wing social engineering is textbook conservative mantra...'punishment' It is how conservatives were raised. Wealth and material things are the only gauge of person's worth.

The American people are not lazy and they are not pampered. Worker productivity keeps rising and wages have remained flat for decades. The American worker is hurting. But all they need is punishment...

Have you ever heard of a bleeding heart Republican?
Paul Craig Roberts - the father of Reaganomics

You don't actually know any conservatives in real life, do you?

You know Daveman, I am more of a conservative than you, Toomey or any of the other right wing authoritarians who call themselves 'conservative'.

I was raised in the 1950's. My dad was the sole provider, and my mom was a housewife and mother. It wasn't called 'family values', it was just family. When I came home from school, no matter what kind of day I had, it immediately became brighter when I walked in the door to an enthusiastic 'Hi honey' from my mom. It not only brightened my day, it helped build self worth and create and reinforce a positive self image. All my friends and school mates had a similar story...a father that worked and a mother that stayed home to raise and nurture their children. None of us kids ever knew or even cared what anyone's father did for a living. None of us had to go without; food, clothing, pets, bikes, baseball gloves, doctor care (our doctor used to come to the house), a real quality education with all the extras; sports, arts, school run ice rink, summer basketball programs etc. But none of us were pampered or spoiled either.

THAT is exactly what I want for my kids and for my grand-kids.

So, what is conservatism? In my opinion, it is respect for the past and the wisdom of our ancestors. Their lives were built on their ancestors and so it goes, from one generation to the next. You ultimately respect the lives and toil of our ancestors not by paying lip service or using empty rhetoric like 'family values'. You do it by embracing their lessons learned; respecting the policies, regulations and programs they crafted that increased the benefits and lessened the losses in our communities and our society we reap the benefits of.

How did our ancestors craft them, were they based on some 'ideology'? I believe they were based on common sense, common decency, experience, trial and error, community activism, elections and community involvement.

So...In a very real way I AM truly a conservative.

Are ANY of the people that now call themselves conservatives today looking for common sense, common decency solutions to benefit their families and their community, or are they ideologues, that want to dismantle any shred of COMMunity and replace it with SELF interest?

That is not 'conservatism', that is narcissism.

"You shall rise in the presence of grey hairs, give honor to the aged, and fear God, I am the Lord"
Leviticus 19:32

FYI: True conservatives don't support Obama.

 

[Bfgrn]

You don't actually know any conservatives in real life, do you?

You know Daveman, I am more of a conservative than you, Toomey or any of the other right wing authoritarians who call themselves 'conservative'.

I was raised in the 1950's. My dad was the sole provider, and my mom was a housewife and mother. It wasn't called 'family values', it was just family. When I came home from school, no matter what kind of day I had, it immediately became brighter when I walked in the door to an enthusiastic 'Hi honey' from my mom. It not only brightened my day, it helped build self worth and create and reinforce a positive self image. All my friends and school mates had a similar story...a father that worked and a mother that stayed home to raise and nurture their children. None of us kids ever knew or even cared what anyone's father did for a living. None of us had to go without; food, clothing, pets, bikes, baseball gloves, doctor care (our doctor used to come to the house), a real quality education with all the extras; sports, arts, school run ice rink, summer basketball programs etc. But none of us were pampered or spoiled either.

THAT is exactly what I want for my kids and for my grand-kids.

So, what is conservatism? In my opinion, it is respect for the past and the wisdom of our ancestors. Their lives were built on their ancestors and so it goes, from one generation to the next. You ultimately respect the lives and toil of our ancestors not by paying lip service or using empty rhetoric like 'family values'. You do it by embracing their lessons learned; respecting the policies, regulations and programs they crafted that increased the benefits and lessened the losses in our communities and our society we reap the benefits of.

How did our ancestors craft them, were they based on some 'ideology'? I believe they were based on common sense, common decency, experience, trial and error, community activism, elections and community involvement.

So...In a very real way I AM truly a conservative.

Are ANY of the people that now call themselves conservatives today looking for common sense, common decency solutions to benefit their families and their community, or are they ideologues, that want to dismantle any shred of COMMunity and replace it with SELF interest?

That is not 'conservatism', that is narcissism.

"You shall rise in the presence of grey hairs, give honor to the aged, and fear God, I am the Lord"
Leviticus 19:32

FYI: True conservatives don't support Obama.

Many prominent conservatives supported Obama in 2008. But you right wing authoritarian followers now call them RINO's They were trying to tell you something.

Republican elected officials who endorsed Obama

Former Minnesota Governor Arne Carlson[24]

Former Rhode Island Senator Lincoln Chafee.[25] Two years later, he was elected Governor of Rhode Island as an Independent - Obama's avowed neutrality in the race was viewed by some, including the Democratic nominee, [26] as a tacit endorsement of Chafee.

Former Minnesota Senator David Durenberger supported John Kerry in the 2004 election, leaving the Republican Party. He now supports Obama.[27]

Former Oklahoma Congressman Mickey Edwards voted for Obama; announced one day after the election.

Former Kansas Congressman, Nixon Administration Deputy Secretary of Defense and United States Permanent Representative to NATO Robert F. Ellsworth[28]

Former Maryland Congressman Wayne Gilchrest (who was an outgoing incumbent at the time) told WBAL-TV that he voted for Obama in a January interview.[29]

Former Virginia Governor Linwood Holton, father-in-law of former Governor Tim Kaine (D-VA)[30]

Former Iowa Congressman Jim Leach[31]

Former Maryland Senator Charles Mathias, Jr.[32] Mathias was a liberal Republican who was often at odds with the conservative wing of the party as a senator.

Former South Dakota Senator Larry Pressler[33]

Former Connecticut Governor and Senator Lowell Weicker. Weicker left the Republican Party in 1988 after a campaign in which prominent Republicans supported his opponent, Joe Lieberman. He supported Democrat Bill Bradley in 2000 and Howard Dean in 2004 for the presidency.

Former Massachusetts Governor William Weld[34]

Mayor Lou Thieblemont of Camp Hill, Penn. Thieblemont switched his party registration from Republican to Democrat so that he could vote for Obama in the Pennsylvania primary.[35]

Fairbanks North Star Borough Mayor Jim Whitaker endorsed Obama and delivered a speech on the second day of the 2008 Democratic National Convention in Denver, Colorado.

Other national Republican figures who endorsed Obama

Ken Adelman, former diplomat, director of the Arms Control and Disarmament Agency, and member of the Pentagon's Defense Policy Board[36]

Wick Allison, former publisher of National Review, [37]

Jack Antaramian, Florida real estate developer and Bush fundraiser[38]

William Donaldson, former Chairman of the Securities & Exchange Commission under George W. Bush (2003–05)[39]

Ken Duberstein, former Reagan chief of staff [40]

Julie Nixon Eisenhower, daughter of former President Richard Nixon, granddaughter-in law of Dwight D. Eisenhower

Susan Eisenhower, granddaughter of Dwight D. Eisenhower and president of the Eisenhower Institute.[41][42] After endorsing Obama, Eisenhower announced on August 21, 2008 that she was leaving the Republican Party.[43]

Charles Fried, former U.S. Solicitor General and former McCain advisor.

CC Goldwater, granddaughter of former Arizona Senator and Republican Presidential candidate Barry Goldwater (endorsing Barack Obama on behalf of herself, her sibling, and some of her cousins)[44][dead link]

Lilibet Hagel, wife of Senator Chuck Hagel (R-NE)[45]

Rita E. Hauser, Former White House intelligence advisor for George W. Bush[31]

Actor and former Bush supporter Dennis Hopper

Larry Hunter, Senior Fellow at the Institute for Policy Innovation and Chief Economist for the Free Enterprise Fund, former Reagan policy advisor[46]

Rear Admiral John Hutson, USN (ret.), former Judge Advocate General of the Navy and the current dean and president of Franklin Pierce Law Center.[47][48]

Legal scholar Douglas Kmiec[49]

Scott McClellan, White House Press Secretary under George W. Bush from 2003–2006. Author of controversial book, What Happened.

Tricia Mosley, former staffer to Senator Strom Thurmond[50]

Paul O'Neill, United States Secretary of the Treasury from 2001–02 under George W. Bush[51]

Colin Powell, former Secretary of State, National Security Advisor, and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.[14]

Libby Pataki, former First Lady of New York from 1995–2007.[citation needed]

David Ruder, Chairman of the Securities & Exchange Commission under President Ronald Reagan [39]

Radio Host Michael Smerconish[52] Later switched to Independent.

Tag Tognalli, former Reagan White House Staff, 1981–1989 and Connecticut McCain Delegate to 2000 Republican National Convention.[53]

Support for Obama from writers affiliated with conservatism

Andrew Bacevich, Professor of International Relations at Boston University.[54]

Christopher Buckley, author, son of conservative figure William F. Buckley, Jr.[55]

Francis Fukuyama, author, key figure in the rise of neoconservatism and loosely affiliated with conservatism.[56] Fukuyama left the neoconservative movement following the Iraq War and supported John Kerry in the 2004 election.[57]

Jeffrey Hart, senior editor of National Review magazine.[58]

Dorothy King, archeologist, author, and conservative blogger.[59]

Scott McConnell, editor of the American Conservative,[60] a magazine associated with Patrick Buchanan. (McConnell had also endorsed John Kerry in 2004.)

John Patrick Diggins, distinguished professor of history at the Graduate Center of the City University of New York. Writing in the American Conservative, Diggins wrote "I prefer the professor to the warrior."

Andrew Sullivan, commentator and author of The Conservative Soul, who had also endorsed John Kerry in 2004.[61][62]
wiki

 

[TheBrain]

You know Daveman, I am more of a conservative than you, Toomey or any of the other right wing authoritarians who call themselves 'conservative'.

I was raised in the 1950's. My dad was the sole provider, and my mom was a housewife and mother. It wasn't called 'family values', it was just family. When I came home from school, no matter what kind of day I had, it immediately became brighter when I walked in the door to an enthusiastic 'Hi honey' from my mom. It not only brightened my day, it helped build self worth and create and reinforce a positive self image. All my friends and school mates had a similar story...a father that worked and a mother that stayed home to raise and nurture their children. None of us kids ever knew or even cared what anyone's father did for a living. None of us had to go without; food, clothing, pets, bikes, baseball gloves, doctor care (our doctor used to come to the house), a real quality education with all the extras; sports, arts, school run ice rink, summer basketball programs etc. But none of us were pampered or spoiled either.

THAT is exactly what I want for my kids and for my grand-kids.

So, what is conservatism? In my opinion, it is respect for the past and the wisdom of our ancestors. Their lives were built on their ancestors and so it goes, from one generation to the next. You ultimately respect the lives and toil of our ancestors not by paying lip service or using empty rhetoric like 'family values'. You do it by embracing their lessons learned; respecting the policies, regulations and programs they crafted that increased the benefits and lessened the losses in our communities and our society we reap the benefits of.

How did our ancestors craft them, were they based on some 'ideology'? I believe they were based on common sense, common decency, experience, trial and error, community activism, elections and community involvement.

So...In a very real way I AM truly a conservative.

Are ANY of the people that now call themselves conservatives today looking for common sense, common decency solutions to benefit their families and their community, or are they ideologues, that want to dismantle any shred of COMMunity and replace it with SELF interest?

That is not 'conservatism', that is narcissism.

"You shall rise in the presence of grey hairs, give honor to the aged, and fear God, I am the Lord"
Leviticus 19:32

FYI: True conservatives don't support Obama.

Many prominent conservatives supported Obama in 2008. But you right wing authoritarian followers now call them RINO's They were trying to tell you something.

Republican elected officials who endorsed Obama

Former Minnesota Governor Arne Carlson[24]

Former Rhode Island Senator Lincoln Chafee.[25] Two years later, he was elected Governor of Rhode Island as an Independent - Obama's avowed neutrality in the race was viewed by some, including the Democratic nominee, [26] as a tacit endorsement of Chafee.

Former Minnesota Senator David Durenberger supported John Kerry in the 2004 election, leaving the Republican Party. He now supports Obama.[27]

Former Oklahoma Congressman Mickey Edwards voted for Obama; announced one day after the election.

Former Kansas Congressman, Nixon Administration Deputy Secretary of Defense and United States Permanent Representative to NATO Robert F. Ellsworth[28]

Former Maryland Congressman Wayne Gilchrest (who was an outgoing incumbent at the time) told WBAL-TV that he voted for Obama in a January interview.[29]

Former Virginia Governor Linwood Holton, father-in-law of former Governor Tim Kaine (D-VA)[30]

Former Iowa Congressman Jim Leach[31]

Former Maryland Senator Charles Mathias, Jr.[32] Mathias was a liberal Republican who was often at odds with the conservative wing of the party as a senator.

Former South Dakota Senator Larry Pressler[33]

Former Connecticut Governor and Senator Lowell Weicker. Weicker left the Republican Party in 1988 after a campaign in which prominent Republicans supported his opponent, Joe Lieberman. He supported Democrat Bill Bradley in 2000 and Howard Dean in 2004 for the presidency.

Former Massachusetts Governor William Weld[34]

Mayor Lou Thieblemont of Camp Hill, Penn. Thieblemont switched his party registration from Republican to Democrat so that he could vote for Obama in the Pennsylvania primary.[35]

Fairbanks North Star Borough Mayor Jim Whitaker endorsed Obama and delivered a speech on the second day of the 2008 Democratic National Convention in Denver, Colorado.

Other national Republican figures who endorsed Obama

Ken Adelman, former diplomat, director of the Arms Control and Disarmament Agency, and member of the Pentagon's Defense Policy Board[36]

Wick Allison, former publisher of National Review, [37]

Jack Antaramian, Florida real estate developer and Bush fundraiser[38]

William Donaldson, former Chairman of the Securities & Exchange Commission under George W. Bush (2003–05)[39]

Ken Duberstein, former Reagan chief of staff [40]

Julie Nixon Eisenhower, daughter of former President Richard Nixon, granddaughter-in law of Dwight D. Eisenhower

Susan Eisenhower, granddaughter of Dwight D. Eisenhower and president of the Eisenhower Institute.[41][42] After endorsing Obama, Eisenhower announced on August 21, 2008 that she was leaving the Republican Party.[43]

Charles Fried, former U.S. Solicitor General and former McCain advisor.

CC Goldwater, granddaughter of former Arizona Senator and Republican Presidential candidate Barry Goldwater (endorsing Barack Obama on behalf of herself, her sibling, and some of her cousins)[44][dead link]

Lilibet Hagel, wife of Senator Chuck Hagel (R-NE)[45]

Rita E. Hauser, Former White House intelligence advisor for George W. Bush[31]

Actor and former Bush supporter Dennis Hopper

Larry Hunter, Senior Fellow at the Institute for Policy Innovation and Chief Economist for the Free Enterprise Fund, former Reagan policy advisor[46]

Rear Admiral John Hutson, USN (ret.), former Judge Advocate General of the Navy and the current dean and president of Franklin Pierce Law Center.[47][48]

Legal scholar Douglas Kmiec[49]

Scott McClellan, White House Press Secretary under George W. Bush from 2003–2006. Author of controversial book, What Happened.

Tricia Mosley, former staffer to Senator Strom Thurmond[50]

Paul O'Neill, United States Secretary of the Treasury from 2001–02 under George W. Bush[51]

Colin Powell, former Secretary of State, National Security Advisor, and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.[14]

Libby Pataki, former First Lady of New York from 1995–2007.[citation needed]

David Ruder, Chairman of the Securities & Exchange Commission under President Ronald Reagan [39]

Radio Host Michael Smerconish[52] Later switched to Independent.

Tag Tognalli, former Reagan White House Staff, 1981–1989 and Connecticut McCain Delegate to 2000 Republican National Convention.[53]

Support for Obama from writers affiliated with conservatism

Andrew Bacevich, Professor of International Relations at Boston University.[54]

Christopher Buckley, author, son of conservative figure William F. Buckley, Jr.[55]

Francis Fukuyama, author, key figure in the rise of neoconservatism and loosely affiliated with conservatism.[56] Fukuyama left the neoconservative movement following the Iraq War and supported John Kerry in the 2004 election.[57]

Jeffrey Hart, senior editor of National Review magazine.[58]

Dorothy King, archeologist, author, and conservative blogger.[59]

Scott McConnell, editor of the American Conservative,[60] a magazine associated with Patrick Buchanan. (McConnell had also endorsed John Kerry in 2004.)

John Patrick Diggins, distinguished professor of history at the Graduate Center of the City University of New York. Writing in the American Conservative, Diggins wrote "I prefer the professor to the warrior."

Andrew Sullivan, commentator and author of The Conservative Soul, who had also endorsed John Kerry in 2004.[61][62]
wiki

Is that a partial list of the racists who voted for Obama simply because he's black?

 

[daveman]

You know Daveman, I am more of a conservative than you, Toomey or any of the other right wing authoritarians who call themselves 'conservative'.

I was raised in the 1950's. My dad was the sole provider, and my mom was a housewife and mother. It wasn't called 'family values', it was just family. When I came home from school, no matter what kind of day I had, it immediately became brighter when I walked in the door to an enthusiastic 'Hi honey' from my mom. It not only brightened my day, it helped build self worth and create and reinforce a positive self image. All my friends and school mates had a similar story...a father that worked and a mother that stayed home to raise and nurture their children. None of us kids ever knew or even cared what anyone's father did for a living. None of us had to go without; food, clothing, pets, bikes, baseball gloves, doctor care (our doctor used to come to the house), a real quality education with all the extras; sports, arts, school run ice rink, summer basketball programs etc. But none of us were pampered or spoiled either.

THAT is exactly what I want for my kids and for my grand-kids.

So, what is conservatism? In my opinion, it is respect for the past and the wisdom of our ancestors. Their lives were built on their ancestors and so it goes, from one generation to the next. You ultimately respect the lives and toil of our ancestors not by paying lip service or using empty rhetoric like 'family values'. You do it by embracing their lessons learned; respecting the policies, regulations and programs they crafted that increased the benefits and lessened the losses in our communities and our society we reap the benefits of.

How did our ancestors craft them, were they based on some 'ideology'? I believe they were based on common sense, common decency, experience, trial and error, community activism, elections and community involvement.

So...In a very real way I AM truly a conservative.

Are ANY of the people that now call themselves conservatives today looking for common sense, common decency solutions to benefit their families and their community, or are they ideologues, that want to dismantle any shred of COMMunity and replace it with SELF interest?

That is not 'conservatism', that is narcissism.

"You shall rise in the presence of grey hairs, give honor to the aged, and fear God, I am the Lord"
Leviticus 19:32

FYI: True conservatives don't support Obama.

Many prominent conservatives supported Obama in 2008. But you right wing authoritarian followers now call them RINO's They were trying to tell you something.

Republican elected officials who endorsed Obama

In summary:

You support Obama.

You claim to be a conservative ( )

To bolster this claim, you list Republicans who also support Obama.

You know what that proves? It proves that Republicans aren't necessarily conservative.

It also proves you really don't know the difference between the two.

Oh, and the reference to W.F. Buckley's son was precious. Do you really think political leanings are genetic?