The real enemy

[daveman]

A cynic is a man who knows the price of everything but the value of nothing.
Oscar Wilde

Uninsured Americans was a main focus of the legislation. But believe whatever you wish.

What Is (and Isn't) in the Healthcare Bill

1. Insurance for millions

Under the legislation, 32 million more people will have health insurance in 2019 than without the bill. That means that about 94 percent of all U.S. citizens will have insurance by the end of the decade. That still falls short of "universal coverage," but it's a significant increase from the 83 percent of American citizens who are covered today.

Can you figure out the problem, or do I need to spoonfeed you?

I'll have to spoonfeed you, of course.

32 million more people will have coverage. What about people to treat them?

There is a great deal of talk in the news and in the healthcare field regarding a possible shortage of physicians and surgeons in the U.S. in the coming years. According to many, the new healthcare reform plan that President Obama initiated and signed is partially to blame. The Association of American Medical Colleges (AAMC) estimates that 32 million previously uninsured Americans will acquire health insurance as a result of Obamacare. The addition of millions of new patients into the system could cause an estimated shortage of over 39,000 physicians by 2015.​

Sooo...more patients, not enough doctors. Care will be rationed. There is no way around it. People are going to die waiting for treatment.

Remind me again how much an improvement Obamacare is supposed to be...?

 

[daveman]

Way to parrot your MessiahRushie.

I don't listen to Rush, you moron.

You are this stupid all by yourself

Not stupid enough to believe your horseshit, apparently.

 

[daveman]

Reagan could foreseen what would happen on 9/11.

The Beirut barracks bombing (October 23, 1983 in Beirut, Lebanon) occurred during the Lebanese Civil War, when two truck bombs struck separate buildings housing United States and French military forces—members of the Multinational Force in Lebanon—killing 299 American and French servicemen. The organization Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility for the bombing.

Suicide bombers detonated each of the truck bombs. In the attack on the American Marines barracks, the death toll was 241 American servicemen: 220 Marines, 18 Navy personnel and three Army soldiers, along with sixty Americans injured, representing the deadliest single-day death toll for the United States Marine Corps since the Battle of Iwo Jima of World War II, the deadliest single-day death toll for the United States military since the first day of the Tet Offensive during the Vietnam War, and the deadliest single attack on Americans overseas since World War II.

U.S. President Ronald Reagan called the attack a "despicable act" and pledged to keep a military force in Lebanon.

There was no serious retaliation for the Beirut bombing from the Americans, besides a few shellings.

The U.S. Marines were moved offshore where they could not be targeted. On February 7, 1984, President Reagan ordered the Marines to begin withdrawing from Lebanon. Their withdrawal was completed on February 26, four months after the barracks bombing; the rest of the multinational force was withdrawn by April 1984.
wiki

Muslims have been blowing shit up since they learned how to concoct gunpowder/black powder.

Before that they loved to light shit on fire that could be a threat/contradict to Islamic teachings.

Islam does nothing but destroy...

What do you expect from ultra conservative cultures that never had a progressive era?

Makes one wonder why the Progressive Left is kowtowing to Islam, doesn't it?

I figure it's because you share a common enemy.

 

[Steelplate]

[
Sooo...more patients, not enough doctors. Care will be rationed. There is no way around it. People are going to die waiting for treatment.

Remind me again how much an improvement Obamacare is supposed to be...?

as opposed to now where Insurance Companies let people die because they don't want to insure them, or people file for bankruptcy because one of their kids got sick/injured.

Your situation can be remedied. Get some of our brilliant young people to start having a fucking conscience and go into medicine instead of going to Wall Street. Give incentives for young people to choose a different path.

Problem solved.

 

[daveman]

[
Sooo...more patients, not enough doctors. Care will be rationed. There is no way around it. People are going to die waiting for treatment.

Remind me again how much an improvement Obamacare is supposed to be...?

as opposed to now where Insurance Companies let people die because they don't want to insure them, or people file for bankruptcy because one of their kids got sick/injured.

Your situation can be remedied. Get some of our brilliant young people to start having a fucking conscience and go into medicine instead of going to Wall Street. Give incentives for young people to choose a different path.

Problem solved.

And that will take ten years minimum if you start tomorrow. It takes that long for med school, internship, and residency. Specialties can take even longer.

So the problem is NOT solved -- especially when you factor in the aging boomer population, the increased government interference in medicine, outrageous malpractice insurance premiums, and the decline in general practitioners, who don't make enough money for all the bullshit to be tolerable.

 

[The Rabbi]

You know, I have never understood why the GOP which often touts it horn about individual liberty never sees how anti-individualistic it is: Constant and endless wars on individuals and nations seeking individuality, peace, progress and prosperity are all initiated by so-called "conservatives."

And when it comes to snitching on people to the law, none is as fast as republicans (who ironically allege they hate big government)! Just amazing!

You mean like LIbya?
Oh wait.

 

[The Rabbi]

[
Sooo...more patients, not enough doctors. Care will be rationed. There is no way around it. People are going to die waiting for treatment.

Remind me again how much an improvement Obamacare is supposed to be...?

as opposed to now where Insurance Companies let people die because they don't want to insure them, or people file for bankruptcy because one of their kids got sick/injured.

Your situation can be remedied. Get some of our brilliant young people to start having a fucking conscience and go into medicine instead of going to Wall Street. Give incentives for young people to choose a different path.

Problem solved.

And that will take ten years minimum if you start tomorrow. It takes that long for med school, internship, and residency. Specialties can take even longer.

So the problem is NOT solved -- especially when you factor in the aging boomer population, the increased government interference in medicine, outrageous malpractice insurance premiums, and the decline in general practitioners, who don't make enough money for all the bullshit to be tolerable.

Why would bright young people want to spend 12 years of their lives training for a career that will pay them about what an illegal Mexican makes?
But that will be the next Dem proposal: We'll draft people to become doctors because we've made the incentives to go into medicine so crappy.

 

[daveman]

as opposed to now where Insurance Companies let people die because they don't want to insure them, or people file for bankruptcy because one of their kids got sick/injured.

Your situation can be remedied. Get some of our brilliant young people to start having a fucking conscience and go into medicine instead of going to Wall Street. Give incentives for young people to choose a different path.

Problem solved.

And that will take ten years minimum if you start tomorrow. It takes that long for med school, internship, and residency. Specialties can take even longer.

So the problem is NOT solved -- especially when you factor in the aging boomer population, the increased government interference in medicine, outrageous malpractice insurance premiums, and the decline in general practitioners, who don't make enough money for all the bullshit to be tolerable.

Why would bright young people want to spend 12 years of their lives training for a career that will pay them about what an illegal Mexican makes?
But that will be the next Dem proposal: We'll draft people to become doctors because we've made the incentives to go into medicine so crappy.

But it's "for the children!!"

 

[snjmom]

So many ideas to address, so little time.

What would you call an organized authority that systematically has reduced the standing of the American student from 1st to about 20th in the industrialized world?

Never considered that the rest of the world may have caught up? You'll also want to delve deeper into the numbers and suss out the way other countries report their statistics. I can guarantee you that you won't see any mainstreamed special needs children or vocation tracked students as part of their stats.

Who cares about other taxes. We are talking solely about income tax here. EVERY working American should be paying SOMETHING in income tax.

Why? Non-smokers don't pay cigarette taxes. And why move all other taxes off budget, that have to be paid out of the same income? Are you seriously suggesting that the guy bringing home 7000 a year should be taxed at the same rate as the guy bringing in 250,000? Cause that is fiscally insane.

pilonidal cyst

Not a Rush fan but those babies are reeeeaaally nasty.

OBAMA SNORTED COCAINE, did drugs.. Makes him what you accuse Rush of.

Rush railed against drug users in public.

"And so if people are violating the law by doing drugs, they ought to be accused and they ought to be convicted and they ought to be sent up."
"What this says to me, is that too many whites are getting away with drug use. Too many whites are getting away with drug sales. Too many whites are getting away with trafficking in this stuff. The answer to this disparity is not to start letting people out of jail because we're not putting others in jail who are breaking the law. The answer is to go out and find the ones who are getting away with it, convict them and send them up the river, too."

It's the hypocritical lack of personal responsibility that defines Limbaugh's drug use.

BILL CLINTON DODGED SERVING- Makes him no different from Rush and yet I'll bet you voted for Bubba and wet your underoo's every time he's on television, hmm? LMAO

Bubba was an actual student attending Oxford and Rush dropped out of SEMO. That's a significant difference.

Which is more effective in getting food to a poor person? A government agency staffed by thousands of overpaid civil service employees or a food bank at a church staffed by volunteers?

Churches are cheaper in the microcosm but the government agency is much more effective on a much vaster scale. Speak to any church in a predominately low income area and ask how many they turn away. Not the case with Uncle Sam.

Of course, I'm not saying all these programs suck. But, I am saying, that we do need a more competitive culture in America, and the Liberals sure aren't helping it. These programs encourage laziness within the common man.

The US is the third most competitive economy in the world, only eclipsed by Hong Kong and Singapore, which are essentially cities and not much of a comparison. These programs allow employers to pay a much lower wage for needed employees and are more about easing desperation than living fat off the taxpayer dime. Does this sound like living fat to you?

MO TANF Cash Benefit 1 child 234.00 per month, 60 more per month per additional family member
Food stamp benefit 350.00 per month for 1 child 60 more per month per additional family member
one annual payment of 135.00 against a utility
Medicaid

vs

Avg 2 bedroom rental in the area, 600.00/mo, if on public housing 75.00
avg utility bill 200.00/mo
medicaid co-pay 1.00-10.00
leaving 0 for toilet paper, shoes and clothing, soap, sheets, furniture, etc

And it's a 5 yr limit

I don't see it as much of an incentive.

Care will be rationed.

Care is already rationed. Unfortunately, it is currently rationed on a price basis rather than a medical basis. There are a number of changes that are currently occurring that are hopeful, the nurse practitioner, the move to pay based on wellness instead of fee for service, the triumph of the anti-smoking faction, transportation safety improvements, etc. But denying maintenance healthcare to the chronically ill ensures that when they finally come in it will be catastrophic, expensive and accounted for by overcharging everyone else.

And yep, the GOP has no love for the wage earner. Much love for the businessman, but not so much his/her employees.

 

[daveman]

Care will be rationed.

Care is already rationed. Unfortunately, it is currently rationed on a price basis rather than a medical basis. There are a number of changes that are currently occurring that are hopeful, the nurse practitioner, the move to pay based on wellness instead of fee for service, the triumph of the anti-smoking faction, transportation safety improvements, etc. But denying maintenance healthcare to the chronically ill ensures that when they finally come in it will be catastrophic, expensive and accounted for by overcharging everyone else.

And yep, the GOP has no love for the wage earner. Much love for the businessman, but not so much his/her employees.

You really think, when the government's running healthcare, that care will be rationed based on medical need?

It won't. It will be rationed based on cost. And, possibly, on which party the patient contributed to.

 

[TheBrain]

Muslims have been blowing shit up since they learned how to concoct gunpowder/black powder.

Before that they loved to light shit on fire that could be a threat/contradict to Islamic teachings.

Islam does nothing but destroy...

What do you expect from ultra conservative cultures that never had a progressive era?

Makes one wonder why the Progressive Left is kowtowing to Islam, doesn't it?

I figure it's because you share a common enemy.

Bingo, and as soon as they don't need the Musims, they will be kicked under the bus, like gays who 3 years later want to serve in the military as per Obama's campaign promise when the man could of, and would have been well within his rights to, sign an executive order changing the policy at any given time on his first day in office.

Democrats don't care any more about the folks than Republicans do, they care only for power, same as Republicans. but these groups are apparently too stupid to see it.

 

[California Girl]

You know, I have never understood why the GOP which often touts it horn about individual liberty never sees how anti-individualistic it is: Constant and endless wars on individuals and nations seeking individuality, peace, progress and prosperity are all initiated by so-called "conservatives."

"...individuality, peace, progress and prosperity..." -- is that what you kids are calling Communism and terrorism these days?

And when it comes to snitching on people to the law, none is as fast as republicans (who ironically allege they hate big government)! Just amazing!

Yeah, that explains why Bush set up [email protected] so people could report the lies being told about the War on Terror.

Oh, wait...

Doesn't the left call terrorists, "freedom fighters"?

I believe this Administration refers to them as 'victims of American aggression who have a genuine grievance against us'

 

[daveman]

What do you expect from ultra conservative cultures that never had a progressive era?

Makes one wonder why the Progressive Left is kowtowing to Islam, doesn't it?

I figure it's because you share a common enemy.

Bingo, and as soon as they don't need the Musims, they will be kicked under the bus, like gays who 3 years later want to serve in the military as per Obama's campaign promise when the man could of, and would have been well within his rights to, sign an executive order changing the policy at any given time on his first day in office.

Democrats don't care any more about the folks than Republicans do, they care only for power, same as Republicans. but these groups are apparently too stupid to see it.

And isn't it funny how the Democrats claim to be the party of the little guy?

 

[snjmom]

Care will be rationed.

Care is already rationed. Unfortunately, it is currently rationed on a price basis rather than a medical basis. There are a number of changes that are currently occurring that are hopeful, the nurse practitioner, the move to pay based on wellness instead of fee for service, the triumph of the anti-smoking faction, transportation safety improvements, etc. But denying maintenance healthcare to the chronically ill ensures that when they finally come in it will be catastrophic, expensive and accounted for by overcharging everyone else.

And yep, the GOP has no love for the wage earner. Much love for the businessman, but not so much his/her employees.

You really think, when the government's running healthcare, that care will be rationed based on medical need?

It won't. It will be rationed based on cost. And, possibly, on which party the patient contributed to.

It will be rationed the way it currently is in other government funded healthcare programs. Through the use of best practices and efficacy. Does Medicare and Medicaid currently check your party contributions prior to delivering services? Now, if you want to address marginal benefit or experimental treatments again, the current private insurance system will deny coverage for such also. And again, you can always hit the retail market if you think you really need it. As a plus on govt-funded, I predict it will be really efficient at matching patients seeking new untried treatments with clinical trials.

 

[TheBrain]

Care is already rationed. Unfortunately, it is currently rationed on a price basis rather than a medical basis. There are a number of changes that are currently occurring that are hopeful, the nurse practitioner, the move to pay based on wellness instead of fee for service, the triumph of the anti-smoking faction, transportation safety improvements, etc. But denying maintenance healthcare to the chronically ill ensures that when they finally come in it will be catastrophic, expensive and accounted for by overcharging everyone else.

And yep, the GOP has no love for the wage earner. Much love for the businessman, but not so much his/her employees.

You really think, when the government's running healthcare, that care will be rationed based on medical need?

It won't. It will be rationed based on cost. And, possibly, on which party the patient contributed to.

It will be rationed the way it currently is in other government funded healthcare programs. Through the use of best practices and efficacy. Does Medicare and Medicaid currently check your party contributions prior to delivering services? Now, if you want to address marginal benefit or experimental treatments again, the current private insurance system will deny coverage for such also. And again, you can always hit the retail market if you think you really need it. As a plus on govt-funded, I predict it will be really efficient at matching patients seeking new untried treatments with clinical trials.

You want to see what government funded healthcare would look like? Ask anyone who's been to a VA. yeah they suck. I have access and will pay out of my own pocket before I go to a VA hospital. You have NO idea what you're getting yourself into.

 

[Mr.Nick]

Reagan could foreseen what would happen on 9/11.

The Beirut barracks bombing (October 23, 1983 in Beirut, Lebanon) occurred during the Lebanese Civil War, when two truck bombs struck separate buildings housing United States and French military forces—members of the Multinational Force in Lebanon—killing 299 American and French servicemen. The organization Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility for the bombing.

Suicide bombers detonated each of the truck bombs. In the attack on the American Marines barracks, the death toll was 241 American servicemen: 220 Marines, 18 Navy personnel and three Army soldiers, along with sixty Americans injured, representing the deadliest single-day death toll for the United States Marine Corps since the Battle of Iwo Jima of World War II, the deadliest single-day death toll for the United States military since the first day of the Tet Offensive during the Vietnam War, and the deadliest single attack on Americans overseas since World War II.

U.S. President Ronald Reagan called the attack a "despicable act" and pledged to keep a military force in Lebanon.

There was no serious retaliation for the Beirut bombing from the Americans, besides a few shellings.

The U.S. Marines were moved offshore where they could not be targeted. On February 7, 1984, President Reagan ordered the Marines to begin withdrawing from Lebanon. Their withdrawal was completed on February 26, four months after the barracks bombing; the rest of the multinational force was withdrawn by April 1984.
wiki

Muslims have been blowing shit up since they learned how to concoct gunpowder/black powder.

Before that they loved to light shit on fire that could be a threat/contradict to Islamic teachings.

Islam does nothing but destroy...

What do you expect from ultra conservative cultures that never had a progressive era?

The barbarians? Maybe peanut boy can go over there and teach them an ethics lesson.

Can't blame westerners from being pissed.

The Islamic Brotherhood is behind it all. Sayyid Qutb is the godfather of all this terrorism - no one even knows this....

 

[TheBrain]

So we're agreed. RDean is the enemy of thought?

 

[edthecynic]

What was Rush doing with a bottle of Viagra in his bag at Palm Beach International Airport with the prescription in someone else's name? Limbaugh was returning from a vacation in the Dominican Republic, a known haven for sweaty fat white men paying to have sex with underage prostitutes.

the DR is also a noted vacation getaway in the Caribbean....so i guess anyone who goes there, is there to find underage Prostitutes.....geezus....talk about speculating....

A getaway for drug smugglers and other criminals.

Dominican Republic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Crime

The Dominican Republic has become a trans-shipment point for Colombian drugs destined to Europe as well as the United States and Canada.[1][90] Money laundering via the Dominican Republic is favored by Colombian drug cartels for the ease of illicit financial transactions.[1] In 2004 it was estimated that 8% of all cocaine smuggled into the United States had come through the Dominican Republic.[91] The Dominican Republic responded with increased efforts to seize drug shipments, arrest and extradite those involved, and combat money-laundering.


The often light treatment of violent criminals has been a continuous source of local controversy. In April 2010, five teenagers ages 15 to 17 (including 2 females) shot and killed two taxi drivers and killed another five by forcing them to drink drain cleaning acid. On September 24, 2010, the teens were sentenced to only 3–5 year prison terms, despite the protests of the taxi drivers' families.[92]


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rm1kvdjrm2Y]YouTube - ‪THE MARINES HAVE LANDED ON THE SHORES OF SANTO DOMINGO PHIL OCHS‬‏[/ame]

 

[snjmom]

You really think, when the government's running healthcare, that care will be rationed based on medical need?

It won't. It will be rationed based on cost. And, possibly, on which party the patient contributed to.

It will be rationed the way it currently is in other government funded healthcare programs. Through the use of best practices and efficacy. Does Medicare and Medicaid currently check your party contributions prior to delivering services? Now, if you want to address marginal benefit or experimental treatments again, the current private insurance system will deny coverage for such also. And again, you can always hit the retail market if you think you really need it. As a plus on govt-funded, I predict it will be really efficient at matching patients seeking new untried treatments with clinical trials.

You want to see what government funded healthcare would look like? Ask anyone who's been to a VA. yeah they suck. I have access and will pay out of my own pocket before I go to a VA hospital. You have NO idea what you're getting yourself into.

My experience with VA has been positive. Saved my life. Didn't find it all that different from my employers HMO. Most of the folks I know with TriCare are pretty satisfied with it. And there you go. If the govt healthcare system doesn't meet your standards, you are always free to go the retail route. Just like any other govt program except roads, though you could always try to travel exclusively on privately managed toll roads. Don't like welfare? Go to a church if that's your preferred method. Don't like VA? Buy another policy or pay retail. No one is prohibiting you from choosing an alternative. Yeah, you'll pay taxes for services that you don't use, but that is the cost of being a citizen in a large nation. You can always try a small one and see if you have more freedom.

 

[edthecynic]

It would be great if Reagan could have foreseen what would happen on 9/11/2001 I doubt we would have helped them.

But I also see obama helping al qedua in Libya. that the same as helping the japanese help fight the chinese during WW2 even after Japan bomb peral harbor.

Reagan could foreseen what would happen on 9/11.

Alright, first off, to be honest, I didn't go on to read the rest of you're post after this.

Lets not blame Reagan for not seeing the happenings of 9/11 before they occurred, because in all reality, Clinton had a much better vision at that time than Reagan.

Also, Reagan took a much stronger approach against terrorism than Clinton ever did. I think it's safe to say that Clinton had a way better opportunity to have foreseen the events of 9/11 than Reagan.

Reagan ARMED the terrorists knowing they wanted to kill Americans. Reagan's middleman, Dana Rohrabacker, when he met with Osama Bin Laden in Jalalabad was told not to speak English because OBL and his Saudis wanted to kill Americans as much as Russians. Reagan armed OBL anyway. Reagan also armed the blind Sheikh Omar Abdul-Rahman who attacked the WTC in 1993 and was caught by Clinton.

You are blaming Clinton simply because he got some but not all of Reagan's "Freedom Fighters," but you don't blame St Ronnie for arming them.