the results of austerity in england

[Rocko]

So, they were called austerity cuts. the party that proposed them called them austerity measures. Everyone knew they were attempting to be more...austere....

But they weren't austerity cuts?

Oh, ok then.



Indeed. They fail, virtually every time they are tried. That's the problem with hitching your monetary policy to the train of the ECB.

you can't grasp what austerity cuts are.

Apparently, the Prime Minister of England, England's leading economists and the rest of the informed world can't grasp it either.

Only Rocko can grasp it!

Do you know how absurd you sound?

I reffer you to post #76.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Like a good rightwing conservatarian, you are: Never let the facts get in the way of a good rant.

I provided actual data. Evidence. You provided rightwing commentary and obviously mis-represented data....Has it sunk into you that AEI 's use of 1930 and 1931 data was an attempt to fool simpleminded people?

Then you pulled a Richard Nixon by attempting to claim victory and get out.

Predictable as the rising sun.

Well, then....let's do it again.

1. Harding cut taxes and government spending, and the recession was over in 18 months.

Are you intentionally obtuse or do you have reading troubles?

Harding had a post-war slump. It helps when you have an entire continent to rebuild (unless it's your continent.)

2. FDR functioned as a dictator, muzzling the free-market, imposing government regulations and taxes....and extended the recession into 'The Great Depression'....by some seven years.

No, FDR Took office and promptly stopped bank runs. An economy that was losing 30% of its value when he took office turned around and had the fastest four-year period of peacetime growth in modern history.

Quit lying.

"You can run, but you can't hide."
The Brown Bomber


1. “America's greatest depression fighter was Warren Gamaliel Harding. An Ohio senator when he was elected president in 1920, he followed the much praised Woodrow Wilson— who had brought America into World War I, built up huge federal bureaucracies, imprisoned dissenters, and incurred $25 billion of debt. Harding inherited Wilson's mess— in particular, a post–World War I depression that was almost as severe, from peak to trough, as the Great Contraction from 1929 to 1933 that FDR would later inherit."
Not-So-Great Depression - Jim Powell - National Review Online


2. "Instead of "fiscal stimulus," Harding cut the government's budget nearly in half between 1920 and 1922. The rest of Harding's approach was equally laissez-faire. Tax rates were slashed for all income groups. The national debt was reduced by one-third.

The Federal Reserve's activity, moreover, was hardly noticeable. As one economic historian puts it, "Despite the severity of the contraction, the Fed did not move to use its powers to turn the money supply around and fight the contraction."[2] By the late summer of 1921, signs of recovery were already visible. The following year, unemployment was back down to 6.7 percent and it was only 2.4 percent by 1923."
The Forgotten Depression of 1920 - Thomas E. Woods, Jr. - Mises Daily


3. "If the Keynesians are right about the Great Depression, then the depression of 1920–1921 should have been far worse. The same holds for the monetarists; things should have been awful in the 1920s if their theory of the 1930s is correct.

To be sure, the 1920–1921 depression was painful. The unemployment rate peaked at 11.7 percent in 1921. But it had dropped to 6.7 percent by the following year, and was down to 2.4 percent by 1923. After the depression the United States proceeded to enjoy the “Roaring Twenties,” arguably the most prosperous decade in the country’s history. Some of this prosperity was illusory—itself the result of subsequent Fed inflation—but nonetheless the 1920–1921 depression “purged the rottenness out of the system” and provided a solid framework for sustainable growth."

The conclusion seems obvious to anyone whose mind is not firmly locked into the Keynesian or monetarist framework: The free market works.
The Depression You’ve Never Heard Of: 1920-1921 | The Freeman | Ideas On Liberty


4." Progressivism emerged in the late 1800s in the United States and led to the first major depression in the twentieth century from 1920-1921. Prosperity was restored in 1922 by doing exactly the opposite of what we are doing today.

Progressives believe in big government, big social programs, heavy taxation, and especially government control of as much as possible. The depression of 1920 was the result of this ideology. Known as the Forgotten Depression of 1920, it resulted from the progressive policies implemented by President Woodrow Wilson from 1913 to 1921.

Warren Harding was elected President in 1921. His very anti-Keynesian methods took the boot off the throat of the American people by slashing taxes from 73% to 25% by 1925. Taxes were cut for lower income brackets starting in 1923. Harding also cut the government's budget nearly in half between 1920 and 1922. The results? The national debt was reduced by one-third. By 1922 unemployment was down to 6.7 percent and by 1923 it had dropped to 2.4 percent. The depression had vanished and The Roaring Twenties were launched."
Michael Coffman -- The Forgotten Depression, 1920-1921


That sound?


That's me laughing at you....


Are you totally flummoxed? Does a 1-legged duck swim in a circle?

 

[8537]

Well, then....let's do it again.

1. Harding cut taxes and government spending, and the recession was over in 18 months.

Are you intentionally obtuse or do you have reading troubles?

Harding had a post-war slump. It helps when you have an entire continent to rebuild (unless it's your continent.)

2. FDR functioned as a dictator, muzzling the free-market, imposing government regulations and taxes....and extended the recession into 'The Great Depression'....by some seven years.

No, FDR Took office and promptly stopped bank runs. An economy that was losing 30% of its value when he took office turned around and had the fastest four-year period of peacetime growth in modern history.

Quit lying.

"You can run, but you can't hide."
The Brown Bomber

1. “America's greatest depression fighter was Warren Gamaliel Harding. An Ohio senator when he was elected president in 1920, he followed the much praised Woodrow Wilson— who had brought America into World War I, built up huge federal bureaucracies, imprisoned dissenters, and incurred $25 billion of debt. Harding inherited Wilson's mess— in particular, a post–World War I depression that was almost as severe, from peak to trough, as the Great Contraction from 1929 to 1933 that FDR would later inherit."
Not-So-Great Depression - Jim Powell - National Review Online

I've explained this already. I'm not sure if you failed to read it or if you think I'll suddenly decide to start believing you because you found a link on the inter webs.

The Federal Reserve's activity, moreover, was hardly noticeable. As one economic historian puts it, "Despite the severity of the contraction, the Fed did not move to use its powers to turn the money supply around and fight the contraction."[2] By the late summer of 1921, signs of recovery were already visible. The following year, unemployment was back down to 6.7 percent and it was only 2.4 percent by 1923."
The Forgotten Depression of 1920 - Thomas E. Woods, Jr. - Mises Daily

Do we really need to explain why the Federal Reserve wasn't involved? In 1920? Really?


3. "If the Keynesians are right about the Great Depression, then the depression of 1920–1921 should have been far worse. The same holds for the monetarists; things should have been awful in the 1920s if their theory of the 1930s is correct.

To be sure, the 1920–1921 depression was painful. The unemployment rate peaked at 11.7 percent in 1921. But it had dropped to 6.7 percent by the following year, and was down to 2.4 percent by 1923. After the depression the United States proceeded to enjoy the “Roaring Twenties,” arguably the most prosperous decade in the country’s history. Some of this prosperity was illusory—itself the result of subsequent Fed inflation—but nonetheless the 1920–1921 depression “purged the rottenness out of the system” and provided a solid framework for sustainable growth."

Lol! 11.7%.

Again, I provide data and you provide claptrap from right-wing sites.


4

." Progressivism emerged in the late 1800s in the United States and led to the first major depression in the twentieth century from 1920-1921. Prosperity was restored in 1922 by doing exactly the opposite of what we are doing today.

The first major depression of the 20th century was longer before 1920.

Once again, you prove that there is no rightwing source you won't claim as your own - even if they make up facts and use misplaced 1931 data.

 

[8537]

you can't grasp what austerity cuts are.

Apparently, the Prime Minister of England, England's leading economists and the rest of the informed world can't grasp it either.

Only Rocko can grasp it!

Do you know how absurd you sound?

I reffer you to post #76.

You refer me to Wikipedia? Lol.

The prime minister of England, hundreds of economists from all stripes and the entirety of the developed world's leadership vs...

Wikipedia and Rocko.

 

[Synthaholic]

[
You couldn't be more incorrect....but you're a Leftie....so that is somewhat redundant.

every statistic i quoted is correct.

"...the unemployment rate was above 25%. it continued to collapse after 1931..."



Those are annual averages (and based on compiling datasets, since there was no UE rate calculated at the time - but notice that unemployment DID INDEED continue to collapse after 1931. I'm not sure what's more pathetic- that AEI abused the statistics like that or that you found them to be legit.

Various estimated put the max rate at between 24% and 33%. It was not 20.9 when "the Roosevelt era began" in March. One brief look at your own data proves how stupid that idea is. It somehow have averaged 23.6 in 1932 and 24.9 in 1933, but in March of 1933 it was 20.9? LOL.

1934 -- 21.7% (16.2%)
1935 -- 20.1% (14.4%)
1936 -- 16.9% (10.0%)
1937 -- 14.3% ( 9.2%)
1938 -- 19.0% (12.5%) <<<----Austerity budget, repeal of New Deal Programs from late 1937, Thanks for making my point.
1939 -- 17.2% (11.3%)
1940 -- 14.6%
1941 -- 9.9%
Numbers in brackets correct for employment in New Deal programs.



This is hilarious! I provide actual, factual data about economic growth and you turn to an opinion piece from Hillsdale. Precious.

As for your characterization....
"The American Enterprise Institute for Public Policy Research (AEI) is a conservative[2][3][4][5] think tank founded in 1943. Its stated mission is "to defend the principles and improve the institutions of American freedom and democratic capitalism—limited government, private enterprise, individual liberty and responsibility, vigilant and effective defense and foreign policies, political accountability, and open debate".[6] AEI is an independent nonprofit organization supported primarily by grants and contributions from foundations, corporations, and individuals. It is headquartered in Washington, D.C."
American Enterprise Institute - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Oh gawd..seriously? Surely you know that AEI is a rightwing think tank in the bed of anyone claiming that the solution to every problem is markets?

You know that, right? Right?

Try doing some of your own research. You're first hint at how crooked they are should have been their use of data from 1930 and 1931. But that koolaid tasted good, so you drank it.

So....you don't dispute that Harding was the problem solver, and FDR was the cause of the problem?

Good.


You're never too old to learn.

You just had your ass handed to you, and this is the best you can come back with?


It would have been more honorable for you to just pull a California Girl, and slink away.

 

[Synthaholic]

little smiley faces to refute the words of a BBC economist.

can you people be any stupider

the little smiles are laughing at you....

I don't know why. She posted a legitimate article.

 

[Synthaholic]

Is Greece's crumbling economy in dire straits because of austerity cuts?

In part, yes. Greece is in trouble for four reasons:

1) they spent too much and ran up too much external debt.
2) they don't control their own currency, so they can't use monetary policy to ease the pain.
3) the other EU countries control their fiscal policy now, and those countries would rather see a million Greeks impoverished than a single German or French lose their jobs - because Germans vote in Germany, not Greece.
4) the policies being enforced by these outside nations (austerity) are causing the economy to crash even deeper because the private sector won't invest a wooden nickel in an economy without the support of it's own government.

Britain meets zero of those reasons.

The EU should never have expanded to Greece, and some other countries.

And Greece should have never dropped the Drachma in place of the Euro. They would be much better off right now with the Drachma, despite the inflation.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Are you intentionally obtuse or do you have reading troubles?

Harding had a post-war slump. It helps when you have an entire continent to rebuild (unless it's your continent.)


No, FDR Took office and promptly stopped bank runs. An economy that was losing 30% of its value when he took office turned around and had the fastest four-year period of peacetime growth in modern history.

Quit lying.

"You can run, but you can't hide."
The Brown Bomber



I've explained this already. I'm not sure if you failed to read it or if you think I'll suddenly decide to start believing you because you found a link on the inter webs.






Do we really need to explain why the Federal Reserve wasn't involved? In 1920? Really?


3. "If the Keynesians are right about the Great Depression, then the depression of 1920–1921 should have been far worse. The same holds for the monetarists; things should have been awful in the 1920s if their theory of the 1930s is correct.



Lol! 11.7%.

Again, I provide data and you provide claptrap from right-wing sites.


4

." Progressivism emerged in the late 1800s in the United States and led to the first major depression in the twentieth century from 1920-1921. Prosperity was restored in 1922 by doing exactly the opposite of what we are doing today.

The first major depression of the 20th century was longer before 1920.

Once again, you prove that there is no rightwing source you won't claim as your own - even if they make up facts and use misplaced 1931 data.

So, it seems that I’ve made the acquaintance of one of our resident Left-wing Umpa Lumpas…..

First, I never lie.
But you must claim so because the facts don't support your propaganda...

This is so very easy to prove....as follows:
1. Was there a recession/depression in 1920 as well as one in 1930?

2. Did the Republican institute laissez-faire free market strategies, and
did the Democrat institute Keynesian command and control strategies?

3. Was not the Republican successful in solving the crisis, i.e., ending same in
18 months?
And was the Democrat a woeful failure, leaving Americans to suffer for almost
a decade and a half?


Wasn't that easy?
Yes- Yes- and Yes!

What's that? You don't wish to answer honestly?
You've been trained, instead, to yell "You lie, you lie!!!"


Well, far be it from I to interfere with your Pavlovian conditioning....
but any who aren't prevented from seeing the veracity of the above will
conclude that the Republican's method was the efficacious one...

...and the colossal failure of the Progressive-Liberal-Democrat method can only
be called successful via prevarication.
That's where you come in......

I'd like the readers to consider this in their calculations: the Democrat Depression of the 30's is well known, and discussed in glowing terms in the popular literature. Why is the one of 1920 not so?
Answer: a) it was quickly solved, b) the provenance of the solution is anathema to Progressives: the free market.



So, continue as usual,...as twisted as one of those party tramps from the Pitbull Bon, Bon commercial...


...and let's let the readers judge.


Right now you’re probably trying to brush something off your face…you don't realize it is the floor.

 

[Paulie]

BBC News - UK economy in double-dip recession


the results of austerity as a way ofdealing with their economy has resulted in a double dip inflation.


Your ideas have YET AGAIN failed in practice.

Double dip inflation?

You wanna tell us how austerity leads to inflation, let alone "double dip"? Whatever the fuck that means?

 

[Synthaholic]

BBC News - UK economy in double-dip recession


the results of austerity as a way ofdealing with their economy has resulted in a double dip inflation.


Your ideas have YET AGAIN failed in practice.

Double dip inflation?

You wanna tell us how austerity leads to inflation, let alone "double dip"? Whatever the fuck that means?

Double-dip recession, not inflation.

 

[kwc57]

this idiot likely denies Bush crashed the world economy

I'm not an idiot, but I definetly deny that.

How do you think he did that?

Rocko, a little friendly advice.......don't try to engage truthdoesntmatter in any serious conversation. She is a long time troll and liar on these boards and she basically just posts shit to hear herself talk. She is truly delusional and I believe is only allowed to stay for the entertainment factor.

 

[Dot Com]

I think the facts are above the Righties intellectual pay-grade.

 

[Truthmatters]

no htey are above their honesty grade

 

[Truthmatters]

this idiot likely denies Bush crashed the world economy

I'm not an idiot, but I definetly deny that.

How do you think he did that?

Rocko, a little friendly advice.......don't try to engage truthdoesntmatter in any serious conversation. She is a long time troll and liar on these boards and she basically just posts shit to hear herself talk. She is truly delusional and I believe is only allowed to stay for the entertainment factor.

How cute you fucking idiots are.

Now tell us you disgruntled brained con How you stretch you idiot mind to clear Bush of the economic disastor he created with your precious right wing policy?

Oh you dont do facts huh just miiddle school level personal insults huh?

 

[Rocko]

I'm not an idiot, but I definetly deny that.

How do you think he did that?

Rocko, a little friendly advice.......don't try to engage truthdoesntmatter in any serious conversation. She is a long time troll and liar on these boards and she basically just posts shit to hear herself talk. She is truly delusional and I believe is only allowed to stay for the entertainment factor.

How cute you fucking idiots are.

Now tell us you disgruntled brained con How you stretch you idiot mind to clear Bush of the economic disastor he created with your precious right wing policy?

Oh you dont do facts huh just miiddle school level personal insults huh?

you made the claim, the burden of proof is your responsibility.

 

[Paulie]

BBC News - UK economy in double-dip recession


the results of austerity as a way ofdealing with their economy has resulted in a double dip inflation.


Your ideas have YET AGAIN failed in practice.

Double dip inflation?

You wanna tell us how austerity leads to inflation, let alone "double dip"? Whatever the fuck that means?

Double-dip recession, not inflation.

She said inflation. I don't think she has any clue what she's talking about, and probably shouldn't be in the economy forum.

She never has any original thoughts on anything, she reads an article that tells her what she wants to hear and that's good enough for her.

 

[peach174]

BBC News - UK economy in double-dip recession



its in a double dip recession.


These words have definitions and the UK economy has met the definition of a recession yst again.


Its IS a recession

Your graph shows 0 growth when libs were in complete control in 2008.
Cons took control and growth has been slow, but more growth than in 2008.
Having to use their money to still bail out Greece is not helping them to grow.

 

[PoliticalChic]

I think the facts are above the Righties intellectual pay-grade.

1. Which facts would those be, dotty?

2. Care to try this little test?

a. Was there a recession/depression in 1920 as well as one in 1930?

b. Did the Republican institute laissez-faire free market strategies, and
did the Democrat institute Keynesian command and control strategies?

c. Was not the Republican successful in solving the crisis, i.e., ending same in
18 months?
And was the Democrat a woeful failure, leaving Americans to suffer for almost
a decade and a half?


Ooo....hurts, doesn't it?


3. A little friendly advice...don't use that second word in your post.....makes the unintentional humor too obvious....

 

[CrusaderFrank]

hahahahahahah



Your ideas FAILED you idiots.

They failed yet again right before our elections.

So what do you idiots do?

double down on stupidity and failed ideas.

Spain also went the austerity route. They are now basically in a depression, with over 23% unemployment.

Paul Krugman is being proven correct with each passing day.

LOL

Krugman is the funniest read since Gary Larson stopped doing "Far Side" cartoons

Krugman

LOL

 

[California Girl]

The UK economy has returned to recession, after shrinking by 0.2% in the first three months of 2012.

A sharp fall in construction output was behind the surprise contraction, the Office for National Statistics said.

A recession is defined as two consecutive quarters of contraction. The economy shrank by 0.3% in the fourth quarter of 2011.


BBC News - UK economy in double-dip recession

little smiley faces to refute the words of a BBC economist.

can you people be any stupider

She's not an 'economist', she's their economics editor.

idiot.