The Right To Bear Arms

[9thIDdoc]

Bullspit. How exactly is it any different when one type of personal property is stolen than another?

It doesn't fucking matter. You're the ones pretending to be "responsible gun owners", but you can't even do that. You can't even act responsibly with your own goddamned weapons. 234,000 of you every year see your gun(s) disappear. 33,000 of you don't even notify the police when it happens.

"Responsible gun owner" is the "No true Scotsman" fallacy, revised for America.

If a stolen gun is not reported how would you know it was stolen as you claim to?

Because we have a link from one of your own earlier in this thread that confirms it, from the DOJ: Household burglaries involving stolen firearms were more likely to be reported to police (86 percent)

How many of those guns were stolen from the government?

Zero. All the guns stolen are from individuals.

Why report a stolen gun to a government who gives guns to criminals and other enemies and may not return it if it is found?

You're the ones giving the guns to criminals when you don't do a background check on your private gun sale, or when you let your guns get stolen from right under your nose. This is what I mean when I say you lack responsibility, and why you cannot call yourself a "responsible gun owner".

"It doesn't fucking matter. You're the ones pretending to be "responsible gun owners", but you can't even do that."

No pretense involved. You're the one trying to claim that some reported number of household burglaries involving the theft of guns somehow shows irresponsibility. The burden of proof is on you and you fail miserably. 800K-1M cars are stolen ea. year. Does that prove that all car owners are irresponsible?

You are the one who hasn't got a clue what responsible ownership is. Come back when you at least have enough knowledge to debate the issue.

 

[P@triot]

The only reason anyone would do a gun transfer as a "private sale" was if they wanted to avoid a background check. Now why would someone want to avoid a background check?

Nothing could be further from the truth. In some cases, a private sale will yield more money. In other cases, someone wants to easily unload a firearm to a friend or relative. There are quite a few legitimate reasons - which is why a criminal purchasing a firearm in a private sale is so rare.

 

[P@triot]

And there is no evidence guns act as a deterrent to crime.

Guns prevent 2.5 million crimes per year in the U.S. There is no evidence that you are informed, educated, or rational.

A widely-known study conducted by Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz in the 1990s found that there were somewhere between 830,000 and 2.45 million U.S. defensive gun uses annually. A National Crime Victimization Study (NCVS) which asked victims if they had used a gun in self-defense found that about 108,000 each year had done so. A big problem with the NCVS line of survey reasoning, however, is that it only includes those uses where a citizen kills a criminal, not when one is only wounded, is held by the intended victim until police arrive, or when brandishing a gun caused a criminal to flee.

Disarming the Myths Promoted By the Gun Control Lobby

 

[P@triot]

The political arm of the NRA is most definitely funded by corporations

 

[P@triot]

Yes, it clearly is. Without the political arm of the NRA that is funded by corporations, the NRA would be just a regular old gun club of racists.

You continue to take ignorance to unprecedented levels. The NRA isn’t founded, backed, or comprised of corporations. Hell, show me a corporation that doesn’t outlaw firearms in their buildings or on their campuses.

 

[Johann]

speaking of eliminating our rights and seizing our property is treason.

The founding fathers gave it to us as our second amendment for a reason.

 

[P@triot]

Look man...you guys claim to be responsible, yet the actions say otherwise. You have "responsible gun owners" on this very thread saying they won't and don't act responsibly. So "responsible gun owner" is the same fallacy as "No true Scotsman".

Thank goodness we have the 2nd Amendment - so that uninformed, uneducated, ignorant opinions such as yours don’t matter, uh?

 

[P@triot]

But we can easily expand it to the dealers at the Gun Shows. Actually, a couple of the dealers I know that have booths in the Guns Shows have a computer and do background checks anyway right on the spot.

That’s because it is law. A dealer may never sell a firearm without a background check - including at gun shows. I’m sorry, but you simply do not have your facts straight.

 

[P@triot]

It's crazy to think you'll be a hero, saving people with your gun...

Yeah...it only happens 2.5 million times per year in the U.S.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

But we can easily expand it to the dealers at the Gun Shows. Actually, a couple of the dealers I know that have booths in the Guns Shows have a computer and do background checks anyway right on the spot.

That’s because it is law. A dealer may never sell a firearm without a background check - including at gun shows. I’m sorry, but you simply do not have your facts straight.

Yet it's done by individuals that set up their own booth. And don't tell me it isn't done.

 

[P@triot]

But we can easily expand it to the dealers at the Gun Shows. Actually, a couple of the dealers I know that have booths in the Guns Shows have a computer and do background checks anyway right on the spot.

That’s because it is law. A dealer may never sell a firearm without a background check - including at gun shows. I’m sorry, but you simply do not have your facts straight.

Yet it's done by individuals that set up their own booth. And don't tell me it isn't done.

Because that is a private sale. And you just admitted that “nothing can be done about private sales”. People are not authorized to run background checks on fellow citizens.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

But we can easily expand it to the dealers at the Gun Shows. Actually, a couple of the dealers I know that have booths in the Guns Shows have a computer and do background checks anyway right on the spot.

That’s because it is law. A dealer may never sell a firearm without a background check - including at gun shows. I’m sorry, but you simply do not have your facts straight.

Yet it's done by individuals that set up their own booth. And don't tell me it isn't done.

Because that is a private sale. And you just admitted that “nothing can be done about private sales”. People are not authorized to run background checks on fellow citizens.

Do you find this happening at a gun show and not find it strange? If you go to a gunshow,setup a booth and sell guns, you should be considered a dealer at that point and have to follow the laws of the Dealer. Otherwise, you should not be allowed to participate. As for a person running a gun check on another person, the Dealers can run that background check for them. Another excuse, right?

From what I can see, I see two camps that are the most vocal. Those that want no rules (You can't tell me what to do" and the other wants a total ban. You and the other side don't understand that most of us want to be safe. Look for some changes in 2018 and then again in 2020 when the young are voters. I mostly agree what these kids are saying. We need to listen now. But neither side listens. Rather than talk with us, you talk at us. But look for a change in the next 2 years.

 

[jon_berzerk]

But we can easily expand it to the dealers at the Gun Shows. Actually, a couple of the dealers I know that have booths in the Guns Shows have a computer and do background checks anyway right on the spot.

That’s because it is law. A dealer may never sell a firearm without a background check - including at gun shows. I’m sorry, but you simply do not have your facts straight.

most lefties dont

and they refuse to accept the facts when presented to them over and over

 

[Skull Pilot]

And ZERO of my guns have ever been stolen

YET.

None of your guns have been stolen YET.

You're carrying the risk that they will be stolen simply because you have them.

So you can't call yourself "responsible" if you're knowingly taking on risk you can't manage.

This is how your reasoning works:

YET.

You have never caused an accident that killed someone YET.

You're carrying the risk that you will make an error in judgment on the road simply because you are driving.

So you can't call yourself a "responsible" driver if you're knowingly taking on risk that you might make a mistake someday and cause an accident that kills someone.

You're innocent of vehicular manslaughter until you are not. Because of this, you were never a responsible driver and were always guilty of vehicular manslaughter.

See how stupid that sounds?

Diddler can see the future

 

[Flash]

NRA bumper stickers are like big, huge, flashing advertisements for thieves that say; "I have guns you can steal". And they do. As many as 600,000 are stolen every year. Every 2 minutes, another gun is stolen in this country from "responsible gun owners".

No Moon Bat you are once again confused.

The NRA bumper sticker I have on my truck is a message that I vote my Constitutional rights.

The "I'm With Her" stickers I occasionally see are a blaring message that the driver is a fucking moron.

 

[Cecilie1200]

But we can easily expand it to the dealers at the Gun Shows. Actually, a couple of the dealers I know that have booths in the Guns Shows have a computer and do background checks anyway right on the spot.

That’s because it is law. A dealer may never sell a firearm without a background check - including at gun shows. I’m sorry, but you simply do not have your facts straight.

Yet it's done by individuals that set up their own booth. And don't tell me it isn't done.

Prove it, or I most certainly WILL tell you that.

 

[Papageorgio]

time to ignore the gun banners who squeal in delight every time there is a shooting so they can use the blood of innocents to try to drown out our rights. You hate the NRA and gun owners because they don't support the leftwing candidates you crave

Nope because people are dying by the thousands.

really? gun deaths have declined over the years despite millions upon millions more guns in circulation and millions of people carrying guns legally. So you are either ignorant of the fact or lying. Most gun deaths are SUICIDES. the remaining number that are not justifiable or excusable shootings are homicides mainly and those are caused at rates of 80-90% by people who are not legally able to own or use guns

so stuff the silly dramatics. Gun violence in tis country-especially outside urban areas full of drug gangs is minuscule

USA is the worst country in terms of gu related dearhs/mass shootings. So there is clearly a gun problem. Why do you need a gun ? Insecure? Or ready to kill when you are pissed at the world?

what do I need a gun for? many reasons-one of them being to prevent people like you from trying to strip away our rights

Enjoy them, I hope you don't kill someone when you lose your temper as many do.

Less than one tenth of one percent ever use a gun to kill someone. The fact that you own a registered gun reduces that stat to less than 100th of one percent.

 

[The Derp]

If I decide to sell my gun to my son, for example, what PRECISELY am I going to find out from a background check that I don't already know?!

Because. It's. The. Responsible. Thing. To. Do.

And maybe you don't know everything about your son that you think you do.

What is the harm in running a background check, just to give you peace of mind?

You want to call yourself a "responsible gun owner", yet you refuse to act responsibly. So you're not a "responsible gun owner".

Background checks are useful when you're selling a gun to someone you don't know. What the fuck do you expect them to accomplish in a sale between family and friends, other than your desperate leftist need to have the government involved in EVERYTHING?

What they accomplish are two things:

1. Peace of mind for the seller.

2. Because you don't know shit about shit, you don't know about the private lives of your friends and family, and all you're doing is trying to abdicate responsibility for when, not if, the person you give the gun to uses it with ill intent, or sells it to someone who will (straw purchasing).

Like families never keep secrets from one another.

What fucking naive, Mayberry bullshit world do you live in?

 

[The Derp]

Since we're bringing up Kim Jong Un, your approach to gun control would translate into "The United States, Israel, and Great Britain shouldn't be allowed to have nukes, because North Korea can't be trusted with them."

We shouldn't have nukes. No one should. You know who said that? RONALD FUCKING REAGAN.

"Should and shouldn't don't have much to do with reality." You know who said that? ME. Just now.

Yeah, you made that shit up just now, like you make shit up all the time. Being a Conservative and "responsible gun owner" means you just make shit up out of thin air when you know your argument is bullshit.

You invent standards on the fly, you redefine parameters of what you mean, and you "No true Scotsman" your way out of responsibility for the actions of your fellow dupes and morons.

You're a fraud and a phony. And you know it.

 

[The Derp]

o you are saying that I am negligent even though in 30 years not one of my guns has ever been stolen.

Merely owning a firearm adds risk to you and society. Adding risk is not responsible. You can only call yourself a "responsible gun owner" in the past tense.

See the difference? Now if you said people who don't secure their guns are negligent I would agree with you but you're not saying that are you?

All gun owners are negligent because they all added unnecessary risk to themselves and society. Adding unnecessary risk is an act of selfish irresponsibility. The mere fact you own a gun means you're irresponsible. You can be less negligent, but you are always negligent so long as that firearm is in your possession.

No you're not. You are saying that ALL gun owners are negligent even the millions of them who never had a gun stolen or reported it when it was stolen.You want to live in an all or nothing world but when it's applied to you you call it fallacy

So what if millions haven't had their guns stolen? And millions have had their guns stolen. Since 234,000 guns are stolen on average every year, it takes less than five years for 1 million gun owners to be robbed of their gun(s).