Zone1 The Right to Rescue

[Carl in Michigan]

Me neither but I can see why Bob felt that way. She's been awfully pushy about her vegan beliefs in the past and I could be wrong but I think that she's aware of it so that's why she tried to make sure that this thread didn't go in that direction.

She's only "pushy" to those who have a different opinion. You're also "pushy" in your belief that "food animals" are different from the animals you recognize as "pets"

 

[Road Runner]

She's only "pushy" to those who have a different opinion. You're also "pushy" in your belief that "food animals" are different from the animals you recognize as "pets"

No I'm not. I could care less if somebody is a vegetarian or a vegan. What we put in our bodies and what we don't should be a choice. It's the vegans that seem to be extra pushy about it.

 

[Coyote]

Folks, the thread has been cleaned and let’s try to stick to the topic and not divert to vegan vs meat arguments.

 

[Road Runner]

Coyote isn't meat vs. vegan somewhat having to do with the topic? It just depends on your POV of whether or not you believe that it's considered animal cruelty.

 

[Coyote]

Coyote isn't meat vs. vegan somewhat having to do with the topic? It just depends on your POV of whether or not you believe that it's considered animal cruelty.

Yes, it does depend on your point of view as to what exactly is considered abusive, but that isn’t the same as making it into an argument about the ethics of meat eating.

For example, farm animals CAN be raised and treated humanely: given decent food, clean water, the appropriate amount of range and habitat for their species, and the company of their own kind for social species. But what about when they aren’t? Pigs in cruel confinement pens, veal calves kept iron deficient, kept in tiny areas so as not to develop muscle or red meat etc.

You can look at that and ask: at what point should someone intervene if at all? Should farm animals be treated any differently than companion animals?

I think that addresses the topic.

 

[Michelle420]

Me neither but I can see why Bob felt that way. She's been awfully pushy about her vegan beliefs in the past and I could be wrong but I think that she's aware of it so that's why she tried to make sure that this thread didn't go in that direction.

I don't see his point of view. Only that he has a bias about her veganism that he is aware of from previous different threads. One has nothing to do with the other. This was about animal rescue. I like Bob too but that doesn't mean I can't disagree with him or he can't disagree with me. But being civil is required in the clean debate thread. His feelings toward her personally from her past posts are irrelevant.

 

[Road Runner]

Yes, it does depend on your point of view as to what exactly is considered abusive, but that isn’t the same as making it into an argument about the ethics of meat eating.

For example, farm animals CAN be raised and treated humanely: given decent food, clean water, the appropriate amount of range and habitat for their species, and the company of their own kind for social species. But what about when they aren’t? Pigs in cruel confinement pens, veal calves kept iron deficient, kept in tiny areas so as not to develop muscle or red meat etc.

You can look at that and ask: at what point should someone intervene if at all? Should farm animals be treated any differently than companion animals?

I think that addresses the topic.

So then my question to buttercup was okay because I'm really curious what she was going to say when I asked if you could still like farm animals but like their meat at the same time or would that be considered cruel and hypocritical to her. It wasn't really an argument it was just a question that I had.

 

[Coyote]

So then my question to buttercup was okay because I'm really curious what she was going to say when I asked if you could still like farm animals but like their meat at the same time or would that be considered cruel and hypocritical to her. It wasn't really an argument it was just a question that I had.

Yes, I think so, as long as it doesn’t derail the thread. It would be better though to focus on the ethics of rescue in an abusive situation though.

 

[Road Runner]

Yes, I think so, as long as it doesn’t derail the thread. It would be better though to focus on the ethics of rescue in an abusive situation though.

I was also thinking about making it a separate topic.

 

[Road Runner]

Here, for anybody who wants to discuss this topic further.

Zone1 - Are Farms Animal Cruelty Zones Or Just Purely Educational?

Since this came up in another thread I wanted to address it. Now my position on zoos is pretty clearcut. As long as the animals are in enclosers that have the animals enough room to run around then I don't have any problem with them so it's fairly simple to understand. However, when it comes to...

www.usmessageboard.com

 

[jackflash]

Yes, I support the right to rescue. Indonesia has no animal cruelty laws. I have reported a sadistic monkey torturer on youtube for months and they won't take his videos down even one where he is molesting a baby monkey.

These type of beings I honestly believe are spiritually possessed. Incarceration in a mental hospital or being put down by lethal injection is the best way to deal with these depraved sadists. If given the chance these depraved beings would probably commit these atrocities on lil human tykes as well.

 

[sparky]

Yes, it does depend on your point of view as to what exactly is considered abusive, but that isn’t the same as making it into an argument about the ethics of meat eating.

For example, farm animals CAN be raised and treated humanely: given decent food, clean water, the appropriate amount of range and habitat for their species, and the company of their own kind for social species. But what about when they aren’t? Pigs in cruel confinement pens, veal calves kept iron deficient, kept in tiny areas so as not to develop muscle or red meat etc.

You can look at that and ask: at what point should someone intervene if at all? Should farm animals be treated any differently than companion animals?

I think that addresses the topic.

Debating how animals should be kept with folks who have zero experience doing so is an exercise in futility Coyote

~S~

 

[Coyote]

Debating how animals should be kept with folks who have zero experience doing so is an exercise in futility Coyote

~S~

There is that…but hope springs eternal!

 

[Road Runner]

Debating how animals should be kept with folks who have zero experience doing so is an exercise in futility Coyote

~S~

If my memory serves me correctly I do believe that you keep pigs don't you?

 

[jackflash]

Thank you!!! You rock, Michelle. I haven't seen those monkey videos, but unfortunately I saw a glimpse of a couple other diabolical animal cruelty videos on my Instagram feed from a group who is trying to expose it... also involving baby animals (I couldn't watch longer than a couple seconds.) It's incomprehensible to me how anyone is capable of those things. Thank you for reporting it, I'm surprised it's taking so long for YouTube to do anything about it.

Buttercup; Many of us try our best to protect our precious creatures(GIFTS from Maker for humanity) but the evil people are definitely out there that engage in unspeakable atrocities. Thank Christ for the folks with the big hearts for those big hearts are all that keep humanity @ least somewhat civilized. I agree with U about YouTube as they should have pulled those sadistic vids & immediately reported the vids to the authorities. Tragically there will be little chance of animal cruelty even being investigated due to crimes committed between humans taking precedence.

 

[jackflash]

People that leave their dog in a hot car to die should be put in a hot car to die.

If a guy and a dog were drowning, I'd save the dog first.

dl; the way humanity is devolving I'd guess that 7out of 10 times the pooch would be the one to save. Good call on your part!

 

[jackflash]

I'm actually surprised who God awful YouTube is. I got personally threatened by Google for my remarks about Palestinians but animal abuse videos stay up. I scroll past all of them when I come across them. I don't want to give them any views

C@AA; I ended up @ USMB because I got fired by Yahoo Answers for sticking up for the ELEMENTARY school children that got massacred in Afghanistan by the muslim terrorists. I opened up on the muslim terrorists & that was it like I was down the road. There is an air of evil surrounding humanity & it looks to be increasing quite rapidly regarding intensity. The one world without borders program our federal g'ment has latched onto will end up as "Holocaust #3", but it's not like Americans/humanity were not warned ahead of time.

"Kid there's two kinds of people in this world, those that learn the hard way & those that never learn at all."(circa 1969/my Dad)

 

[buttercup]

I think it is a difficult question to answer.

What is considered a cruel and abusive situation that would require intervention and who makes that determination?

Just to give two examples of this quandary:

Crating dogs. Is this cruel? Depends.

Crating an animal for long periods of time or forcing them to live in their own waste or too small of an area, is clearly abusive imo.

On the other hand, there are those who think any use of crates is wrong and abusive. Yet used properly, they are a means of keeping a dog safe, housebreaking, preventing destruction, separating dogs that don’t get along, or giving high energy dogs a time out.

That's a good point.

I'm no expert on open rescue, but from everything I've heard about it, the animals they rescue are always in scenarios that are very clear cut cases of abuse, where there is visible suffering and the animal would certainly die a painful death if not rescued.

And I'm pretty sure they document these things, they video it so that others can see what was going on.

The sad thing is, there have been times when extreme abuse was exposed, and the businesses were held accountable and they were supposed to make changes, but they ended up not doing so. And that's because it really boils down to making money for these big animal industries. It's all about making a profit, and having to change things in order to make life for the animals not a living hell requires cutting into their profits, which of course they don't want.

 

[Michelle420]

You can try, but they won't care. "We," as Americans barely do. Better to try to get evil Google/YouTube to take down animal abuse videos

I am trying. I think the majority of Americans would be repulsed if they saw all the terrible tortures of these babies. Black eyes, sticking tweezers in their private part pretending its an operation, drowning them, stapling their hands and feet to a board and beating them, drugging and raping them with objects, hitting them with hammers and stuffing them in a jar filled with ants. It goes on and on, it's really bad. Youtube allows this but strikes people for strong political opinions. But torturing a baby monkey or other animal is no problem as far as youtube goes. I invite anyone to report those videos. They do go private after being reported on frequently but at least it's not just seeing it and ignoring it.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

I am trying. I think the majority of Americans would be repulsed if they saw all the terrible tortures of these babies. Black eyes, sticking tweezers in their private part pretending its an operation, drowning them, stapling their hands and feet to a board and beating them, drugging and raping them with objects, hitting them with hammers and stuffing them in a jar filled with ants. It goes on and on, it's really bad. Youtube allows this but strikes people for strong political opinions. But torturing a baby monkey or other animal is no problem as far as youtube goes. I invite anyone to report those videos. They do go private after being reported on frequently but at least it's not just seeing it and ignoring it.

Even I'm shocked by your description.
If you have any tips on getting YouTube to stop this, please provide them