Zone1 The Right to Rescue

[Michelle420]

Poor little monkeys but I definitely believe that they shouldn't be pets.

It was a typo I fixed it.

 

[Michelle420]

It is a disgusting industry. The monkeys are taken from the mother as infants. Monkeys are not good pets, most people can’t begin to meet theneeds of a highly intelligent creature that is not a human child and will not behave like one as an adult. I wish the keeping of exotics was illegal.

Agreed I wrote shouldn' but that was a typo. I don't think they should be pets at all.

 

[Road Runner]

It was a typo I fixed it.

I figured but I wasn't sure. No wild animal should be a pet hence the term "wild" animal.

 

[Michelle420]

I figured but I wasn't sure. No wild animal should be a pet hence the term "wild" animal.

Exactly!

 

[Road Runner]

Exactly!

I also can't stand them in cages so I won't go to any zoo unless they're not in a cage and just in an enclosed area that's close to what kind of environment they would be in the wild.

 

[Coyote]

I figured but I wasn't sure. No wild animal should be a pet hence the term "wild" animal.

We have hundreds of breeds and varieties of domestic animals, dogs, cats, rabbits, othetc. There is no valid reason to keep exotics because for most of them we cannot meet their needs environmentally, socially, nutritionally. Domestic animals have been selected for thousands of years to live with humans and within the human environment. We should be happy with these wonderful creatures rather than forcing their wild cousins into captivity.

 

[buttercup]

A big problem is weak animal welfare laws that make it difficult to intervene. I followed this particularly tragic case in Chandler AZ, where a hoarder and fake rescue of special needs dogs kept them in horrific condition. Despite videos and pictures of conditions of dogs in her yard, it forever before police and animal control could or would finally do anything.

With farm animals it is more difficult. In part because, like you say, they are considered “product”, particularly in the larger, intensive confinement operations. They also have very powerful lobbies and are often tied to large corporations.

This is where I'm sure I will part ways with most here...it's something I've realized in the last several years. It may sound extreme, but I have a number of good reasons for this position, which would take too long to explain, so for now I'll keep it short.

While ANY positive change is better than none.... I am not fighting for "animal welfare" because ultimately all that comes down to is slightly larger cages, or exploiting animals in a slightly "nicer" way.

What I want is for people's fundamental ideas about animals to change. In my view, they are not commodities, they are not here to be our slaves, they are not soulless objects that we have the right to exploit and kill unnecessarily.

I know people will say this is unrealistic, but instead of fighting for animal welfare, what I'm fighting for is animal liberation. That doesn't mean that I believe they should be on their own, as a Christian I believe our job is to take care of them, but not in the way we have been, but as free from harm and cruel captivity.

and this song just came to my mind

 

[Michelle420]

This is where I'm sure I will part ways with most here...it's something I've realized in the last several years. It may sound extreme, but I have a number of good reasons for this position, which would take too long to explain, so for now I'll keep it short.

While ANY positive change is better than none.... I am not fighting for "animal welfare" because ultimately all that comes down to is slightly larger cages, or exploiting animals in a slightly "nicer" way.

What I want is for people's fundamental ideas about animals to change. In my view, they are not commodities, they are not here to be our slaves, they are not soulless objects that we have the right to exploit and kill unnecessarily.

I know people will say this is unrealistic, but instead of fighting for animal welfare, what I'm fighting for is animal liberation. That doesn't mean that I believe they should be on their own, as a Christian I believe our job is to take care of them, but not in the way we have been, but as free from harm and cruel captivity.

and this song just came to my mind

I admire your passion for it and your dedication. Just from what little I've done I know it's emotionally devastating. I can't imagine what all you have encountered but I will pray for you and your cause for the animals as well.

 

[buttercup]

I admire your passion for it and your dedication. Just from what little I've done I know it's emotionally devastating. I can't imagine what all you have encountered but I will pray for you and your cause for the animals as well.

Thank you!!! I truly appreciate any prayer. It really can be emotionally draining, especially if one focuses too much on all the horrible stuff. And I'll be praying for you too and as I said, against those demonic torture videos. Thank you Michelle for being so cool on this thread. I appreciate you.

 

[Coyote]

This is where I'm sure I will part ways with most here...it's something I've realized in the last several years. It may sound extreme, but I have a number of good reasons for this position, which would take too long to explain, so for now I'll keep it short.

While ANY positive change is better than none.... I am not fighting for "animal welfare" because ultimately all that comes down to is slightly larger cages, or exploiting animals in a slightly "nicer" way.

What I want is for people's fundamental ideas about animals to change. In my view, they are not commodities, they are not here to be our slaves, they are not soulless objects that we have the right to exploit and kill unnecessarily.

I know people will say this is unrealistic, but instead of fighting for animal welfare, what I'm fighting for is animal liberation. That doesn't mean that I believe they should be on their own, as a Christian I believe our job is to take care of them, but not in the way we have been, but as free from harm and cruel captivity.

and this song just came to my mind

I appreciate that you to took the time to explain your view. To some extent I agree, particularly with changing people’s fundamental views.

But what exactly would animal “liberation” entail?

From my perspective, I think every domestic animal should have something of a species specific “bill of rights”: grazing animals should have access to pasturage, not crowded concrete and mud feed lots; social and herd animals should access to companionship of their own kind (less of an issue for pets than for farm animals), etc.

 

[buttercup]

I appreciate that you to took the time to explain your view. To some extent I agree, particularly with changing people’s fundamental views.

But what exactly would animal “liberation” entail?

From my perspective, I think every domestic animal should have something of a species specific “bill of rights”: grazing animals should have access to pasturage, not crowded concrete and mud feed lots; social and herd animals should access to companionship of their own kind (less of an issue for pets than for farm animals), etc.

First I just want to say that I believe that both humans and animals have inherent rights, that don't come from the government. The role of government is supposed to be to protect those rights that are natural / God-given. But of course the way it is now, only human rights are recognized. For the most part, animals are considered "things", from a legal standpoint.

So yes, I agree that legally something needs to change so that the basic natural rights of animals are recognized.

As for what animal liberation would look like... Well, as I said, I don't believe it means just leaving the animals alone to fend for themselves. I believe that it's our job to take care of the animals, but in a way that recognizes their inherent rights and dignity.

I love the idea of animal sanctuaries, and there are a growing number of animal sanctuaries, especially for farm animals, who traditionally have been the worst treated animals of all, because they're considered mere "food" items.

Animal sanctuaries are entirely different than zoos or places like that. The animals are not there to be spectacles. They are treated with love, respect, kindness.... similar to the way people already treat dogs or cats.

Btw, I don't know if you're on Instagram or other social media platforms. But if you follow animal sanctuary pages, you'll start to see that the animals there are no different than dogs or cats. And it's a great way to see that all animals have the same desire to live, enjoy life, have fun, be with friends, move and run around, and most importantly feel safe and at home, free from harm.

If you have a few minutes, I highly recommend watching this short video. It's an excerpt from a longer talk, but this particular part is about the power of sancturaries. Also, I'll share some links to animal sanctuary pages to follow below the video...




The Gentle Barn

Barn Sanctuary

Aimee's Farm Animal Sanctuary

Rowdy Girl Sanctuary

Uncle Neil's Home

Rancho Relaxo

Arthur's Acres


and there are many, many, many more....

 

[initforme]

Leaving a dog in a hot car is as bad as abortion.

 

[lennypartiv]

---What is a puppy mill?---

Puppy mills FAQ

Learn more about this cycle of cruelty

www.humanesociety.org

---But, on March 4, he signed into law the cruel and inhumane House Bill 1412 in support of puppy mills.---

Indiana's puppy mill law is shameful

House Bill 1412 is bad for animals in Indiana, an IndyStar reader writes in a letter to the editor.

news.yahoo.com

 

[Carl in Michigan]

I admire your passion for it and your dedication. Just from what little I've done I know it's emotionally devastating. I can't imagine what all you have encountered but I will pray for you and your cause for the animals as well.

I found this website that may help. The have phone numbers! Hopefully you can contact a live (and reasonable person)

https://www.humanedecisions.com/how-to-report-animal-cruelty-seen-on-tv-film-or-the-internet/#:~:text=HULU%20%E2%80%93%2D%20Call%201%2D888,that%20best%20suits%20your%20issue.

 

[martybegan]

I agree. But this thread is not really about saving dogs from a hot car. I just used that as an example to show what the idea of 'the right to rescue' basically boils down to. Of course I fully expect that most people will see that situation as a different matter... but that's why I posted this thread, to provoke thought and see what people have to say about this topic. Thanks.

Are you trying to extend this to breaking animals out of say a stockyard for cattle, or a chicken plant for chickens?

 

[buttercup]

Are you trying to extend this to breaking animals out of say a stockyard for cattle, or a chicken plant for chickens?

Open rescue is not my idea, it's a method that has been around for a few decades. And as I said to someone else earlier on the thread, I haven't even stated my position on it, one way or the other. So in that sense, I'm not "trying" to do anything with this, except bring up the discussion.

But to answer your question, there are people who are trying to extend the right to rescue to all types of animals, including farm animals. But it's not quite like the way you put it, it's not like there are people trying to release an entire herd of cattle, or all the chickens in a factory farm. lol.

What they do is go into places where animals are kept in absolutely horrible conditions, and are clearly suffering… And they rescue a few of the worst cases. Those lucky animals are given veterinary care, and then sent to an animal sanctuary, where they get to spend the rest of their lives being loved and taken care of, free from harm.

There's an animal rights group called Direct Action Everywhere, and they are known for doing this type of rescue. Some of their people have been arrested, and one of the founders of that group, Wayne Hsiung, who is an attorney, has gone to trial a few times, facing felony charges and up to 60 years in prison.

As I said earlier on the thread, even within the animal rights community, there are some different views on open rescue. It's similar to civil disobedience, and not everyone agrees with it as a method.

In case you didn't see this in the OP, here's a short video to watch about a rescue of some dogs kept captive to be used for experimentation.

 

[martybegan]

Open rescue is not my idea, it's a method that has been around for a few decades. And as I said to someone else earlier on the thread, I haven't even stated my position on it, one way or the other. So in that sense, I'm not "trying" to do anything with this, except bring up the discussion.

But to answer your question, there are people who are trying to extend the right to rescue to all types of animals, including farm animals. But it's not quite like the way you put it, it's not like there are people trying to release an entire herd of cattle, or all the chickens in a factory farm. lol.

What they do is go into places where animals are kept in absolutely horrible conditions, and are clearly suffering… And they rescue a few of the worst cases. Those lucky animals are given veterinary care, and then sent to an animal sanctuary, where they get to spend the rest of their lives being loved and taken care of, free from harm.

There's an animal rights group called Direct Action Everywhere, and they are known for doing this type of rescue. Some of their people have been arrested, and one of the founders of that group, Wayne Hsiung, who is an attorney, has gone to trial a few times, facing felony charges and up to 60 years in prison.

As I said earlier on the thread, even within the animal rights community, there are some different views on open rescue. It's similar to civil disobedience, and not everyone agrees with it as a method.

And in case you didn't see this in the OP, here's a short video about a rescue of some dogs kept captive to be used for experimentation.

Open Rescue in this sense appears to equal theft.

 

[buttercup]

Open Rescue in this sense appears to equal theft.

Only if you consider animals to be mere things.

 

[martybegan]

Only if you consider animals to be mere things.

Not if you consider the money the owners put into raising, feeding, caring for and eventually processing the animals to be people's food.

 

[buttercup]

Not if you consider the money the owners put into raising, feeding, caring for and eventually processing the animals to be people's food.

Well, then they should abide by the law… Because in most of those cases, those companies are already breaking laws on animal cruelty.

And no, in those cases the animals are not being cared for... not unless you think being kept captive in a tiny cage, with open sores on their body, prolapses, surrounded by flies and laying in their own feces and urine is being "cared for."