Zone1 The sin that causes the most souls to be lost

[notmyfault2020]

well there ya go 2020

i mean, it really IS that simple

~S~

what is?

?

 

[notmyfault2020]

Okay, I'll start. The CC in the Dark Ages declared anyone who questioned the orthodoxy to be heretics and tortured them, beat them, drowned them, flayed them, burned them at the stake, beheaded them, and manifested all sorts of evil on them. The CC was entirely corrupt, and that's why the leaders of the Reformation rebelled. I know you have a particular animus toward Martin Luther, but there were a lot more of them than just him.

I don't read propaganda

sorry

heard it all b4 anyhow

 

[hadit]

I don't read propaganda

sorry

heard it all b4 anyhow

Are you trying to claim that the CC did NOT torture and murder those they called heretics because they questioned the orthodoxy? Are you trying to claim that the Pilgrims were NOT fleeing persecution when they came to the new world and established their colony?

This should be entertaining.

 

[Meriweather]

Are you trying to claim that the Pilgrims were NOT fleeing persecution when they came to the new world and established their colony?

The Pilgrims did not belong to the Catholic Church. The Church of England had a sect known as Puritans. There were two factions within this sect, those who had separated from the Church of England; those who had not.

 

[hadit]

The Pilgrims did not belong to the Catholic Church. The Church of England had a sect known as Puritans. There were two factions within this sect, those who had separated from the Church of England; those who had not.

And was persecution one of the reasons they came to the new world?

 

[Meriweather]

Are you trying to claim that the CC did NOT torture and murder those they called heretics because they questioned the orthodoxy?

If you have any interest at all about the exaggeration of the torture and murders you accuse all Catholics of, you may wish to scan a site that briefly sums up what happened.

Busting the Inquisitorial Myths

Imagining the Inquisition examines the representation of the historical inquisition in film. This article by Matthew Tracy confronts the myths surrounding the inquisition.

www.ru.nl

The Spanish Inquisition was the worst, and those tortures and deaths were pretty much the work of one individual.

If you are happy with accusing the Catholic Church of atrocities, no need to visit the site.

 

[Meriweather]

And was persecution one of the reasons they came to the new world?

If you consider criticism from fellow parishioners "persecution".... The pilgrims wanted a definitive change in church practices. Not all in the Church of England thought these changes needed to be accommodated. So the Pilgrims set sail where they could set up the church the way they saw fit.

 

[hadit]

If you have any interest at all about the exaggeration of the torture and murders you accuse all Catholics of, you may wish to scan a site that briefly sums up what happened.

Busting the Inquisitorial Myths

Imagining the Inquisition examines the representation of the historical inquisition in film. This article by Matthew Tracy confronts the myths surrounding the inquisition.

www.ru.nl

The Spanish Inquisition was the worst, and those tortures and deaths were pretty much the work of one individual.

If you are happy with accusing the Catholic Church of atrocities, no need to visit the site.

You say "accuse all Catholics". There is no use in discussing anything with someone who blatantly distorts truth that far.

 

[hadit]

If you consider criticism from fellow parishioners "persecution".... The pilgrims wanted a definitive change in church practices. Not all in the Church of England thought these changes needed to be accommodated. So the Pilgrims set sail where they could set up the church the way they saw fit.

None of that distracts from the persecution visited on those the CC considered heretics for questioning the orthodoxy, and others did indeed flee religious persecution by the CC. Now, I've noticed that your compatriot has fallen silent on this subject. If you are working together, I would suggest you urge him to answer the questions I've posed for himself.

 

[Meriweather]

You say "accuse all Catholics". There is no use in discussing anything with someone who blatantly distorts truth that far.

Ah, you got that. I was emphasizing your own blatant distortions.

 

[Meriweather]

None of that distracts from the persecution visited on those the CC

Who in the Catholic Church? Again, blatant distortion. Most of what you are accusing the Catholic Church has to do with that combination of religion and government not being separate. You are accusing the Church of much which was done by secular authorities.

There are and were some Catholics who were Judas-types. Just not as many as you suggest. Separation of Church and State was even better for the Church than it has been for the State.

 

[Meriweather]

If you are working together

Not. Who are you working with?

 

[hadit]

Ah, you got that. I was emphasizing your own blatant distortions.

Such as?

 

[hadit]

Who in the Catholic Church? Again, blatant distortion. Most of what you are accusing the Catholic Church has to do with that combination of religion and government not being separate. You are accusing the Church of much which was done by secular authorities.

There are and were some Catholics who were Judas-types. Just not as many as you suggest. Separation of Church and State was even better for the Church than it has been for the State.

Yes, when the church gets entangled with government, it goes corrupt, like what we saw in the Reformation.

 

[Blues Man]

If you have any interest at all about the exaggeration of the torture and murders you accuse all Catholics of, you may wish to scan a site that briefly sums up what happened.

Busting the Inquisitorial Myths

Imagining the Inquisition examines the representation of the historical inquisition in film. This article by Matthew Tracy confronts the myths surrounding the inquisition.

www.ru.nl

The Spanish Inquisition was the worst, and those tortures and deaths were pretty much the work of one individual.

If you are happy with accusing the Catholic Church of atrocities, no need to visit the site.

The fact that the Catholic church tortured and killed anyone is enough to invalidate it.

 

[Meriweather]

Yes, when the church gets entangled with government, it goes corrupt, like what we saw in the Reformation.

When God captures the hearts and ears of the people, the corrupt will take notice. It is not the Church that is corrupt, it is the infiltrators who are corrupt...those wolves in sheep's clothing.

The Church has never stopped doing the work of God, and the work of God goes unnoticed, perhaps as such works should be as we are instructed to not let our left hand know the good works our right hand is doing.

The more secular minded noted that the populace would listen to and obey the church, so it behooved the secular agencies to join in with the religious. And vice-versa. While the Church went about mercy and forgiveness, the secular government took care of wrong-doers. Both had power, but the secular power had the upper hand.

How? The powerful had their heirs placed in secular positions whereas the younger sons were shunted off to religious orders. In other words, the State had a hand--and great influence--in both.

Meanwhile, the common people were doing their best to live holy lives according to scripture. Do we everyday people really care about the schemes and wars of the rich and powerful? Too much of the blame you place on Catholics or the Church, if you prefer, was simple support and infighting among the rich and powerful. And you can be very certain, the heirs weren't about to let their younger siblings in the clergy lord anything over them.

Delve deep into history and the intertwining relationships of powerful families. It is easier to just blame the Church--and suits those against the Catholic faith to a tee. All they have to do is close their eyes instead of viewing the lives of the common clergy, saints, and commoners of the time.

 

[hadit]

When God captures the hearts and ears of the people, the corrupt will take notice. It is not the Church that is corrupt, it is the infiltrators who are corrupt...those wolves in sheep's clothing.

The Church has never stopped doing the work of God, and the work of God goes unnoticed, perhaps as such works should be as we are instructed to not let our left hand know the good works our right hand is doing.

The more secular minded noted that the populace would listen to and obey the church, so it behooved the secular agencies to join in with the religious. And vice-versa. While the Church went about mercy and forgiveness, the secular government took care of wrong-doers. Both had power, but the secular power had the upper hand.

How? The powerful had their heirs placed in secular positions whereas the younger sons were shunted off to religious orders. In other words, the State had a hand--and great influence--in both.

Meanwhile, the common people were doing their best to live holy lives according to scripture. Do we everyday people really care about the schemes and wars of the rich and powerful? Too much of the blame you place on Catholics or the Church, if you prefer, was simple support and infighting among the rich and powerful. And you can be very certain, the heirs weren't about to let their younger siblings in the clergy lord anything over them.

Delve deep into history and the intertwining relationships of powerful families. It is easier to just blame the Church--and suits those against the Catholic faith to a tee. All they have to do is close their eyes instead of viewing the lives of the common clergy, saints, and commoners of the time.

Questions that are based on your premise that the church was not corrupt, and that government carried out the persecution:

1. Did the CC stand up to the governments and insist they stop persecuting the Protestants and the Anabaptists or did they just go along to keep the peace?
2. Did any of the leaders in the CC stand up to declare that what was going on was evil and needed to stop immediately or did they remain silent so as to avoid being noticed?
3. Did the CC offer sanctuary to believers who questioned the orthodoxy and were being persecuted or did it expel them and turn them over for persecution?
4. Did the CC expel the people in the government who were carrying out the persecution or did they turn a blind eye to what was going on?

Answer those questions honestly, then tell me again how the Church remained un-corrupted while government did all the persecuting. Now, remember that when I say the CC, I am referring to the leadership, not the common people, who were just trying to live the kind of life they were instructed to live by the leadership. You know, just to dispose of your argument that I'm blaming all Catholics for the actions of the CC in the Reformation. And while we're on that, did any of the common people offer sanctuary to those being persecuted? If not, why not, if they were as you say, going about mercy and forgiveness?

 

[Meriweather]

Answer those questions

Not interested. Do your own research.

 

[hadit]

Not interested. Do your own research.

I'm asking you do defend your assertions. I find it interesting that you are unwilling to do so.

 

[Meriweather]

I'm asking you do defend your assertions. I find it interesting that you are unwilling to do so.

Do you. I find it interesting the events you select to "prove" your point. As I said. Research.