Zone1 The sin that causes the most souls to be lost

[fncceo]

So " JOY " is a sin then.

It's not the joy that makes it a sin, it's the confusion, consternation, and ill-harmony that most sins create that make them sins.

Adultery, for example, while extremely fun, can lead to the ruin of marriages and families and is probably something to be avoided.

Pre-marital sex, could also be considered to be harmful to society if it leads to children that will not be adequately supported, emotionally as well as financially.

But, sexual acts between consenting adults, that don't cause harm to society or families shouldn't be considered sins.


For example, dancing between unmarried couples (and even married couples) is considered immodest and a sin to Orthodox Jews. Any physical contact between unmarried men and women is considered sinful and immodest. Even down to dancing between couples at a wedding.

"An engaged man goes to see his Rabbi about his upcoming wedding reception. He said, "Rabbi. I want to dance with my new bride at the wedding. The Rabbi said, "NO. This is prohibited in Judaism as immodest".

The man quickly changed the subject. He said, "What about sex after marriage? Is there anything we shouldn't do?" The Rabbi said, "No. Sex between a married couple should be enjoyed and celebrated. You should have as much sex as possible". The man said, "Are there any positions we shouldn't do?" The Rabbi again emphasized, "No, be experimental. Man on top, woman on top, sideways, in the bath, in the living room, in the kitchen, everything is allowed". The man asked, "What about standing up?.

The Rabbi's face became stern and he said, "NO! No sex standing up! It could lead to dancing!".

 

[Stann]

It's not the joy that makes it a sin, it's the confusion, consternation, and ill-harmony that most sins create that make them sins.

Adultery, for example, while extremely fun, can lead to the ruin of marriages and families and is probably something to be avoided.

Pre-marital sex, could also be considered to be harmful to society if it leads to children that will not be adequately supported, emotionally as well as financially.

But, sexual acts between consenting adults, that don't cause harm to society or families shouldn't be considered sins.


For example, dancing between unmarried couples (and even married couples) is considered immodest and a sin to Orthodox Jews. Any physical contact between unmarried men and women is considered sinful and immodest. Even down to dancing between couples at a wedding.

"An engaged man goes to see his Rabbi about his upcoming wedding reception. He said, "Rabbi. I want to dance with my new bride at the wedding. The Rabbi said, "NO. This is prohibited in Judaism as immodest".

The man quickly changed the subject. He said, "What about sex after marriage? Is there anything we shouldn't do?" The Rabbi said, "No. Sex between a married couple should be enjoyed and celebrated. You should have as much sex as possible". The man said, "Are there any positions we shouldn't do?" The Rabbi again emphasized, "No, be experimental. Man on top, woman on top, sideways, in the bath, in the living room, in the kitchen, everything is allowed". The man asked, "What about standing up?.

The Rabbi's face became stern and he said, "NO! No sex standing up! It could lead to dancing!".

Thanks again and good night.

 

[Stann]

Two gay lovers in the 3rd. Century, Serious and Bacchus, became saints. As well as about 28 other gay Christians. None of them believed in sexual immorality either. So what's your point. You might well be assuming too much.

In post 97. Sergius not Serious. Typo, Sorry

 

[Stann]

Two gay lovers in the 3rd. Century, Serious and Bacchus, became saints. As well as about 28 other gay Christians. None of them believed in sexual immorality either. So what's your point. You might well be assuming too much.

The most famous of all, Joan of Arc, a transgendered lesbian dyke. Isn't that special; her love-hate relation with the church.

 

[luiza]

No soul can be lost .

Mislaid perhaps .

According to the words of Baby Jesus .

 

[Stann]

No soul can be lost .

Mislaid perhaps .

According to the words of Baby Jesus .

What about people who sell their souls ( to the devil ) for material gains of this world. Are these souls mislaid in his care.

 

[luiza]

What about people who sell their souls ( to the devil ) for material gains of this world. Are these souls mislaid in his care.

My view of the quaint Christian narrative about Satan is that it is badly informed and utter nonsense .

My feeling is that Universe works quite differently and from perspectives that are a zillion times deeper than those dredged up here on this speck of dust .

 

[Stann]

My view of the quaint Christian narrative about Satan is that it is badly informed and utter nonsense .

My feeling is that Universe works quite differently and from perspectives that are a zillion times deeper than those dredged up here on this speck of dust .

I'm with you there. Man doesn't even understand himself; knowing the true nature and essence of GOD would be impossible.

 

[luiza]

I'm with you there. Man doesn't even understand himself; knowing the true nature and essence of GOD would be impossible.

Without quibbling pointlessly I am not in 100% agreement

My doubtless soppy view is that the fragmented Universe is forced to move toward unification ( entropy ? ).and individual mind will be absorbed, transformed and then cease to exist .

As we are all part of an Energy Godhead , the attraction from an infinite number of points will be mutual and perhaps best described as vibrational in terms of our present knowledge .

What will this unified Universe then do next ?
Repeat the cycle endlessly , may be .

Where did the Energy Universe originate ? And how ?
Beyond me .

 

[Stann]

Without quibbling pointlessly I am not in 100% agreement

My doubtless soppy view is that the fragmented Universe is forced to move toward unification ( entropy ? ).and individual mind will be absorbed, transformed and then cease to exist .

As we are all part of an Energy Godhead , the attraction from an infinite number of points will be mutual and perhaps best described as vibrational in terms of our present knowledge .

What will this unified Universe then do next ?
Repeat the cycle endlessly , may be .

Where did the Energy Universe originate ? And how ?
Beyond me .

Begining without end, the big bang over and over til GOD plans otherwise, uniting the physical and ethereal universes in one.Perfect stasis.

 

[luiza]

Begining without end, the big bang over and over til GOD plans otherwise, uniting the physical and ethereal universes in one.Perfect stasis.

But not until , God plans ---

The aggregate of everything is the Godhead . There is no , It, and, Us .
"We" are the Godhead at the time of Unification in every sense of the idea .

Enough. Time for my medicine.

 

[Stann]

But not until , God plans ---

The aggregate of everything is the Godhead . There is no , It, and, Us .
"We" are the Godhead at the time of Unification in every sense of the idea .

Enough. Time for my medicine.

Lol, thanks again. Good night.

 

[emilynghiem]

But not until , God plans ---

The aggregate of everything is the Godhead . There is no , It, and, Us .
"We" are the Godhead at the time of Unification in every sense of the idea .

Enough. Time for my medicine.

But not until , God plans ---

The aggregate of everything is the Godhead . There is no , It, and, Us .
"We" are the Godhead at the time of Unification in every sense of the idea .

Enough. Time for my medicine.

luiza There are also dark energy forces outside human conscious will and control. I understand you are trying to promote taking full responsibility for things within human influence and control - not shirking, justifying or writing that off. But part of maturity is accepting (not denying) realms of the universe we don't control. Look at criminal illness and what causes people to go crazy killing other people because of "demonic voices" or obsessions/delusions in their heads. Those don't just go away by "willing" or "praying away" the sickness. It isn't caused by conscious human choice, but the part we do control is whether we identify and forgive the root issue or conflict that causes the "negative energy" to infect the person's mind and take over.

We don't control the sickness directly.

As for the deep therapy process that has been applied to treat or cure "delusional" voices, the best book I know of that explains both the scientifically observable stages and what the spiritual phenomena manifest like is Scott Peck's book "Glimpses of the Devil " he also started off rejecting the notion of any independent entities like demons or Satan influencing human thoughts feelings or behavior. He set out to study and prove that these were delusions that medication could manage. After he observed the impact and steps of deliverance/exorcism, comparing before and after conditions of schizophrenic patients and the steps during the process, Peck changed his mind and argued that science could observe and quantify the physical changes externally even if the spiritual process remains faith based internally.

 

[Blues Man]

What about people who sell their souls ( to the devil ) for material gains of this world. Are these souls mislaid in his care.

That's a fairy tale and makes for a good story but that's about it.

 

[luiza]

luiza There are also dark energy forces outside human conscious will and control. etc

Appreciate your considered post .
I am aware of the perspectives you touched on but am not able to share your beliefs . My first degree was Psychology which helps me a little in parts of this most complex of areas .

I most certainly do not deny the existence of matters or entities that can be labelled Evil , for example ." Outside of human will and control" , as you put it .
I for one would be amazed if they did not exist because on the energy spectrum there has to be full range coverage from positive to negative for a system to exist , or alternatively from good to bad -- or equally from Saints to Demons , yet another way of simple labelling .
Ying-Yang in a nutshell .
Therefore part of the system's very essence must include the part of the spectrum that we simplify descriptively as being bad ( negative, if you will ) , as well as its opposite , good.( positive )
In my view you simply cannot have only Good in the Universe without its polar opposite which literally completes the circuit and is necessary to form that system.

Such a view makes a religious system like Christianity redundant, imho .
IMO ,in the context of Universe Christianity rejects the forces for Evil /Bad as harmful whereas my outlook makes no value judgement about them but recognises that the system is only complete and functioning when all points on the spectrum from the most Good to the totally Evil are part of each other. Like Quantum Theory Entanglement as a possible analogy .

In this way of thinking , religions like Christianity have been very useful and appropriate to the spiritual age(s) we have most recently travelled .
Now a new age is literally dawning and our perspectives need widening and deepening to better understand Universe.
Some might take the view that in holding St Frances, say , as necessary to the Universe as Adolf Hitler is , say , I am making a horrible and obvious mistake , if only because it seems so counter intuitive .
But I see the Universe as a system where moral opinions or labels are absurd and mistaken .
The Universe simply exists and "IS" and by definition cannot be described in any other way than weakly in terms of it being an energy field or system . No descriptors are logically possible .

Only being part of the whole system will allow us to make sense of and understand what we presently see as anomalies or even huge errors from our microscopic perspective .
Becoming Universe will give us the perspective which is not perception from a distance but understanding from actually becoming the Godhead, but only when the circuit comes together .
If you ask how long that might take , the answer is in the proverbial blink of time's true eyelid .

All poorly expressed but the subject matter is not easy to deal with and I have never previously tried to grapple with it .
Some might say --please never try again .

.

 

[emilynghiem]

Appreciate your considered post .
I am aware of the perspectives you touched on but am not able to share your beliefs . My first degree was Psychology which helps me a little in parts of this most complex of areas .

I most certainly do not deny the existence of matters or entities that can be labelled Evil , for example ." Outside of human will and control" , as you put it .
I for one would be amazed if they did not exist because on the energy spectrum there has to be full range coverage from positive to negative for a system to exist , or alternatively from good to bad -- or equally from Saints to Demons , yet another way of simple labelling .
Ying-Yang in a nutshell .
Therefore part of the system's very essence must include the part of the spectrum that we simplify descriptively as being bad ( negative, if you will ) , as well as its opposite , good.( positive )
In my view you simply cannot have only Good in the Universe without its polar opposite which literally completes the circuit and is necessary to form that system.

Such a view makes a religious system like Christianity redundant, imho .
IMO ,in the context of Universe Christianity rejects the forces for Evil /Bad as harmful whereas my outlook makes no value judgement about them but recognises that the system is only complete and functioning when all points on the spectrum from the most Good to the totally Evil are part of each other. Like Quantum Theory Entanglement as a possible analogy .

In this way of thinking , religions like Christianity have been very useful and appropriate to the spiritual age(s) we have most recently travelled .
Now a new age is literally dawning and our perspectives need widening and deepening to better understand Universe.
Some might take the view that in holding St Frances, say , as necessary to the Universe as Adolf Hitler is , say , I am making a horrible and obvious mistake , if only because it seems so counter intuitive .
But I see the Universe as a system where moral opinions or labels are absurd and mistaken .
The Universe simply exists and "IS" and by definition cannot be described in any other way than weakly in terms of it being an energy field or system . No descriptors are logically possible .

Only being part of the whole system will allow us to make sense of and understand what we presently see as anomalies or even huge errors from our microscopic perspective .
Becoming Universe will give us the perspective which is not perception from a distance but understanding from actually becoming the Godhead, but only when the circuit comes together .
If you ask how long that might take , the answer is in the proverbial blink of time's true eyelid .

All poorly expressed but the subject matter is not easy to deal with and I have never previously tried to grapple with it .
Some might say --please never try again .

.

The relative good evil perspective dualism applies to human perception

That is not the same as the dark energy vs light energy that is science and not about subjective human relative context or thinking/interpretation.

The cancer that kills normal cells and makes the body malfunction is science.

The negative stressors and fears that, if chronic, release hormones that have adverse effects and the stress correlates with worse health or heart conditions is science not subjective.

Oppressive bullying and abuse in society and relations that violate a person's sense of consent, justice and peace, inclusion and equal protections of the laws has an adverse effect.

Fear or retribution and ill will Causing war and violence is NOT "morally equal" to good will and cooperative economics that promote healthy sustainable relations community and societal institutions

There is a difference in quality of energy and effects in relations between:
Dark forces, ill will motivated by fear, anger greed or unfair competition and hostility
Vs
Forgiveness and universal inclusion as equal people working in harmony for the greater benefit of all of us individually and collectively

Science can help us study and prove the difference between forgiveness and unforgiveness, positive prayers for healing that are received not imposed, versus negative energy used for sorcery witchcraft voodoo or spells and curses that try to dictate or force effects for spiritual biased interests favoring one agenda over the equal welfare of others

We can use science to quantify measure and prove the difference.

We do not need to rely on conjectures, then compete to argue which estimate or philosophy comes closer to capturing the whole truth. Why not study all of the laws and ways things operate?

Maybe we would see how each system has helped by capturing and teaching part of the system so that we use all available systems and knowledge to cover more ground than just using one system.

 

[Stann]

That's a fairy tale and makes for a good story but that's about it.

I didn't mean literally, I meant people who ignore the plight of people themselves, forsaking them for material goods of this world. My GOD is also not any religious concept of one but the natural GOD which gave us a mind to utilize to the nest of our abilities to improve our lot in life as well as those we love while working with mother nature instead of against it and ourselves.

 

[Ivan88]

Biblically it is lawful to have as many wives and concubines as one can.
BTW, one Aramaic word for concubine is Falgush or Phalgush..... just like it sounds today

 

[Stann]

Biblically it is lawful to have as many wives and concubines as one can.
BTW, one Aramaic word for concubine is Falgush or Phalgush..... just like it sounds today

Fortunately our nation's laws do not allow polygamy of any type.That's real WISDOM.

 

[Ivan88]

"Our" nation is an anti-Christ nation controlled by the Rich man. Enjoy that nation when it goes down the drain.

As long as one does not declare "marriage" he can have as many concubines as He can get. But, the Doctrines of the Edomite Pharisees have corrupted the minds of most females in America. So enjoy your one gal while living in the Yankee chicken coop where Eagles don't go, except to eat chickens.