The Stupidity of unemployment laws.

[C_Clayton_Jones]

So we have an employee who told me she was going to be quitting soon but she did not give me a definite date.

Now since she has been with us for less than a year I decided to stop spending time trying to train her to do some of the more involved things and now I put her in a more menial task.

I want to cut back her hours so I can get a new person in and train them up before we hit our busiest season (March- June).

But if i cut her hours she is eligible for unemployment. Now if she files a claim it will cost me extra unemployment tax for years and years to come.

It's really too bad that I can't get rid of a person who doesn't want to work for me and hire one who does without getting penalized in perpetuity with taxes.

But government doesn't hurt small businesses right?

Of course you hate employment laws, you’re an employer.

As an employer you have no objectivity on the issue whatsoever.

And the irony is you have only yourself to blame for the employment policy and law you hate so much. These laws came about as a result of decades of capricious and hostile treatment of working Americans by their employers, such as yourself.

Now since she has been with us for less than a year I decided to stop spending time trying to train her to do some of the more involved things and now I put her in a more menial task.

Dreadful idea.

Consider hiring a personnel manager, you're clearly not up to the task.

 

[Mr. H.]

And how many employees do you have, Mr. Jones?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Cut back her hours or fire her, and move on with your business. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody ever went broke because they paid a few extra bucks in unemployment taxes.

PS- I agree that Unemployment rules are often stupid.....I own a business in California...we lead the nation in STUPID!

I know. But a 4000 dollar a year increase in taxes forever is too expensive for me.

I see that amount of money and all I can think is that if I saved that for the next 20 years I'd have over 150K more in my retirement fund.

You've got $100k in payroll and you call youself a small business?

Where did you get that number

Our payroll runs about 400K a year. The unemployment tax is only calculated on the first 14K of each employees income as I explained earlier.

My increase in unemployment tax would be 4000 a year if a claim is filed.

 

[Skull Pilot]

So we have an employee who told me she was going to be quitting soon but she did not give me a definite date.

Now since she has been with us for less than a year I decided to stop spending time trying to train her to do some of the more involved things and now I put her in a more menial task.

I want to cut back her hours so I can get a new person in and train them up before we hit our busiest season (March- June).

But if i cut her hours she is eligible for unemployment. Now if she files a claim it will cost me extra unemployment tax for years and years to come.

It's really too bad that I can't get rid of a person who doesn't want to work for me and hire one who does without getting penalized in perpetuity with taxes.

But government doesn't hurt small businesses right?

Of course you hate employment laws, you’re an employer.

As an employer you have no objectivity on the issue whatsoever.

And the irony is you have only yourself to blame for the employment policy and law you hate so much. These laws came about as a result of decades of capricious and hostile treatment of working Americans by their employers, such as yourself.

I have only been in business for 6 years so I don't see how I am at fault for any of this.

And my employees are treated very well. Even my part time people get sick time, vacation time and are allowed to participate in a 401k with a generous match.

You haven't understood the post and you certainly don't understand the unemployment tax.

Now since she has been with us for less than a year I decided to stop spending time trying to train her to do some of the more involved things and now I put her in a more menial task.

Dreadful idea.

.

So I should waste my time and money continuing to train a person who is going to quit in the near future?

That would be a dreadful idea.

 

[Ravi]

Maybe she tricked you into giving her an easier job at the same pay and will never quit.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Maybe she tricked you into giving her an easier job at the same pay and will never quit.

I don't think she's that smart

 

[strollingbones]

Cantcha just fire her azz?

Sure but she'll be able to file a claim because even though she's far from the best employee she really hasn't committed a fire-able offense so I'll still be onthe hook for punitive taxes for years to come.

Oh and get this she's only a part time employee. I forgot to mention that in the OP.

o please..are you telling me you dont know how to fire an employee and fool proof your right to do so? it has 3 steps....step one a recorded verbal warning,,,,step two...a written warning....signed by said employee...step 3....the firing...do you have an employee handbook?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Cantcha just fire her azz?

Sure but she'll be able to file a claim because even though she's far from the best employee she really hasn't committed a fire-able offense so I'll still be onthe hook for punitive taxes for years to come.

Oh and get this she's only a part time employee. I forgot to mention that in the OP.

o please..are you telling me you dont know how to fire an employee and fool proof your right to do so? it has 3 steps....step one a recorded verbal warning,,,,step two...a written warning....signed by said employee...step 3....the firing...do you have an employee handbook?

A warning for what?

As I said she has committed no fire able offense.

You can't just make shit up.

And you obviously don't get it either. I had no plans to fire her. She told me that she was leaving but didn't give a definite notice.

 

[editec]

You know, I think your complaint about this issue is quite valid.

I might suggest that in this case you decrease the employees hours, though, and here's why.

Your employee, should they apply for unemployment will only get paid unemployment for the lost hours.

That means that if they elect to take that settlement they won't be making very much money.

And making no more than half the rate they were making for the hours you cut back WILL motivate them to get another full time job.

And when they take that new job you are off the hook.

 

[Skull Pilot]

You know, I think your complaint about this issue is quite valid.

I might suggest that in this case you decrease the employees hours, though, and here's why.

Your employee, should they apply for unemployment will only get paid unemployment for the lost hours.

That means that if they elect to take that settlement they won't be making very much money.

And making no more than half the rate they were making for the hours you cut back WILL motivate them to get another full time job.

And when they take that new job you are off the hook.

But my unemployment taxes go up for ever because of it. And if I increase my number of employees in the future I will pay the higher tax rate on their salaried as well.

That's the problem. They call it unemployment "insurance" but even if you have a claim on an insurance policy sooner or later your premiums will drop. Not so with unemployment taxes.

 

[Michelle420]

You need to speak to her about the matter directly and ask when she plans to leave and explain you need to train a new person and want a notice.

You also should implement a policy requiring a two week notice to avoid this in the future.

It's just a lesson that you now know and can prevent in the future.

You had no plans to replace this girl prior to the announcement she made to you so she must be doing a decent job.

You can still hire the person you are interested in training and put them in a different position until the other girl quits.

 

[AmyNation]

So we have an employee who told me she was going to be quitting soon but she did not give me a definite date.

Now since she has been with us for less than a year I decided to stop spending time trying to train her to do some of the more involved things and now I put her in a more menial task.

I want to cut back her hours so I can get a new person in and train them up before we hit our busiest season (March- June).

But if i cut her hours she is eligible for unemployment. Now if she files a claim it will cost me extra unemployment tax for years and years to come.

It's really too bad that I can't get rid of a person who doesn't want to work for me and hire one who does without getting penalized in perpetuity with taxes.

But government doesn't hurt small businesses right?

Do you have a written "notice" policy in the training handbook for new hires?

Let her know that you have to let her go if she can't put her notice in writing.

If she has committed no fire able offense and she files a claim I will most likely lose the fight.

In my state people can collect unemployment if you cut their hours even if you don't fire them outright.

Well yeah. That actually makes sense from an employee perspective. It prevents employers from cutting someone's hours in the hope that they will quit.

 

[Mr. H.]

I know. But a 4000 dollar a year increase in taxes forever is too expensive for me.

I see that amount of money and all I can think is that if I saved that for the next 20 years I'd have over 150K more in my retirement fund.

You've got $100k in payroll and you call youself a small business?

Where did you get that number

Our payroll runs about 400K a year. The unemployment tax is only calculated on the first 14K of each employees income as I explained earlier.

My increase in unemployment tax would be 4000 a year if a claim is filed.

Right. Gotcha. That's even a bigger small biz lol.

 

[dblack]

Do you have a written "notice" policy in the training handbook for new hires?

Let her know that you have to let her go if she can't put her notice in writing.

If she has committed no fire able offense and she files a claim I will most likely lose the fight.

In my state people can collect unemployment if you cut their hours even if you don't fire them outright.

Well yeah. That actually makes sense from an employee perspective. It prevents employers from cutting someone's hours in the hope that they will quit.

Which only makes sense in the context of mandated unemployment laws. The usual - bad policy to deal with the effects of bad policy.

 

[Paulie]

If she has committed no fire able offense and she files a claim I will most likely lose the fight.

Sounds like you are in a real bind.

Do you have a 2 week notice written requirement policy?

If not, now would be a good time to have that included in a new hire package so you don't find yourself in this position again.

Have you spoke with your HR department regarding this matter?

We're a small business so I am the HR dept.

It's not the notice part that is jamming me up it's the fact that she told me she is looking for another job and wants to leave. She didn't say when.

I assume she'll at least give me 2 weeks but I want to hire a person now who would be perfect and wants to start right away. So I thought I could just cut the hours of the girl who wants to leave but I find that she can still claim unemployment even if her hours are cut from 25 a week to 10

I understand your grievance about the unemployment situation, it's definitely a fucked up system.

But this girl worked for you for however long and was courteous and professional enough to give you this notice when she could have just bounced on you last second. Why not just at least give her the courtesy in return of working her regular hours until her last day? You can't ALWAYS have it your way 100% in business. Sometimes you gotta give a little and that's ok.

The only thing I see that's missing in this is you not asking her exactly when she's leaving. Why not do that, and then figure out a schedule for her mutually until she's done?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Do you have a written "notice" policy in the training handbook for new hires?

Let her know that you have to let her go if she can't put her notice in writing.

If she has committed no fire able offense and she files a claim I will most likely lose the fight.

In my state people can collect unemployment if you cut their hours even if you don't fire them outright.

Well yeah. That actually makes sense from an employee perspective. It prevents employers from cutting someone's hours in the hope that they will quit.

An employer should be able to cut hours or fire anyone they want without getting a tax penalty for it.

 

[Paulie]

If she has committed no fire able offense and she files a claim I will most likely lose the fight.

In my state people can collect unemployment if you cut their hours even if you don't fire them outright.

Well yeah. That actually makes sense from an employee perspective. It prevents employers from cutting someone's hours in the hope that they will quit.

An employer should be able to cut hours or fire anyone they want without getting a tax penalty for it.

This is true.

But an employer should also at least TRY to work with an employee in a situation like this instead of just insisting they get through the whole process unscathed and pass the entire burden on to the employee.

This employee didn't wrong you at all, she gave you notice that she was expecting to leave. Sometimes in business you lose someone and you don't always get the luxury of transitioning seamlessly. Why not give this girl a break and and deal with the regular hours until she leaves? Or come to an agreement with her?

Why do you have to milk the most you can out of it for yourself at her expense entirely? You can figure this thing out between the two of you like adults and still avoid unemployment.