The true problem with Russian interference

[FA_Q2]

This is not a thread about Trump in any shape or form. This is not a thread on collusion. There are a thousand threads on those subjects, go there if that is what you want to talk about.

There is a lot of outrage over Russia and the fact that they tried to influence our election as well as the reality that they are very likely to continue to do so. There are a lot of calls to prevent them from doing so in the future as well.

I find this outrage not only misplaced but insanely disingenuous. First, there seems to be almost no outrage whatsoever when the US directly interferes with other nations elections as we have done before and will continue to do so in the future when we feel our foreign interests dictate we do so. We have been doing so for over 50 years.

Russia Isn’t the Only One Meddling in Elections. We Do It, Too.
“If you ask an intelligence officer, did the Russians break the rules or do something bizarre, the answer is no, not at all,” said Steven L. Hall, who retired in 2015 after 30 years at the C.I.A., where he was the chief of Russian operations. The United States “absolutely” has carried out such election influence operations historically, he said, “and I hope we keep doing it.”

Not only is what Russia did apparently normal on the world stage but I grantee that we have been far more damaging in some of the smaller nations we have interfered with than Russian attempts to interfere with our elections. Even more hilarious is we have interfered with Russia.

More telling is what Russia actually did to interfere with our election. They hacked and released emails which amounted to releasing truth about some of the more distasteful things the Democratic Party engaged in. This is not really something I am about to set my hair on fire for. It is not even a problem for the nation at large but rather a private digital security problem for the party. As far as I know, Russia failed to hack any governmental system in this attack.

Russia also paid trolls to post fake shit on Facebook, Twitter and fake news pages. This is where the real problem lies but not with Russian actions. The problem is that the electorate believes this crap. Fake news is not new by any stretch of the imagination. Today, the electorate has more tools and sources to verify false reports than at any time in history. People swallowing troll BS is the core of the problem, not trolls. Most of the reporting that focuses on Russian interference seems to be nothing more than trying to blame our ignorance as an electorate on Russian trolls.

There is almost nothing for the government to do here to 'prevent' future Russian interference. What we need to do in general is stop being so apathetic with respect to our own obligations in electing our representatives. That is the true problem - the tendency for partisans to swallow any swill that appears to agree with their preconceived notions. Interference is a very minor blip in that problem as well as it corrupts our society in many ways most more pervasive than this.

When we interfere in elections to promote an election free from state dominance, it's not a bad thing.

Obama should not have become involved in Israel's election, even though Netanyahu was interfering with policy decisions here. US Jews of course are welcome to policy discussions, but foreigners .. not so much.

Why not?

We interfere in governmental policy of nations on a daily basis. Why the hell would a foreign leader not try and influence policy based on their interests? What do you think we are doing with Iran? What do you think we are doing with North Korea and China?

And finally, this post has nothing to do with your last one.

Our record is imperfect, but generally we have interfered to defy totalitarianism. Although our last three presidents have squandered our standing as a shining city on a hill. But once you equate the US motives with Putins, you accept what happened in Syria as inevitable.

I am not equating our motives with Russia's motives. I am equating the ACTIONS.

And no, claims that we are generally trying to limit totalitarianism are not correct. We support quite a lot of totalitarians when they align with our interests.

It is also worth pointing out that, generally, our efforts to oust totalitarianism have ended in abysmal failure. Iraq is a shinning example here - a totalitarian that we basically bolstered for years and when we did try and oust him it did not go well at all.

 

[bendog]

This is not a thread about Trump in any shape or form. This is not a thread on collusion. There are a thousand threads on those subjects, go there if that is what you want to talk about.

There is a lot of outrage over Russia and the fact that they tried to influence our election as well as the reality that they are very likely to continue to do so. There are a lot of calls to prevent them from doing so in the future as well.

I find this outrage not only misplaced but insanely disingenuous. First, there seems to be almost no outrage whatsoever when the US directly interferes with other nations elections as we have done before and will continue to do so in the future when we feel our foreign interests dictate we do so. We have been doing so for over 50 years.

Russia Isn’t the Only One Meddling in Elections. We Do It, Too.
“If you ask an intelligence officer, did the Russians break the rules or do something bizarre, the answer is no, not at all,” said Steven L. Hall, who retired in 2015 after 30 years at the C.I.A., where he was the chief of Russian operations. The United States “absolutely” has carried out such election influence operations historically, he said, “and I hope we keep doing it.”

Not only is what Russia did apparently normal on the world stage but I grantee that we have been far more damaging in some of the smaller nations we have interfered with than Russian attempts to interfere with our elections. Even more hilarious is we have interfered with Russia.

More telling is what Russia actually did to interfere with our election. They hacked and released emails which amounted to releasing truth about some of the more distasteful things the Democratic Party engaged in. This is not really something I am about to set my hair on fire for. It is not even a problem for the nation at large but rather a private digital security problem for the party. As far as I know, Russia failed to hack any governmental system in this attack.

Russia also paid trolls to post fake shit on Facebook, Twitter and fake news pages. This is where the real problem lies but not with Russian actions. The problem is that the electorate believes this crap. Fake news is not new by any stretch of the imagination. Today, the electorate has more tools and sources to verify false reports than at any time in history. People swallowing troll BS is the core of the problem, not trolls. Most of the reporting that focuses on Russian interference seems to be nothing more than trying to blame our ignorance as an electorate on Russian trolls.

There is almost nothing for the government to do here to 'prevent' future Russian interference. What we need to do in general is stop being so apathetic with respect to our own obligations in electing our representatives. That is the true problem - the tendency for partisans to swallow any swill that appears to agree with their preconceived notions. Interference is a very minor blip in that problem as well as it corrupts our society in many ways most more pervasive than this.

When we interfere in elections to promote an election free from state dominance, it's not a bad thing.

Obama should not have become involved in Israel's election, even though Netanyahu was interfering with policy decisions here. US Jews of course are welcome to policy discussions, but foreigners .. not so much.

Why not?

We interfere in governmental policy of nations on a daily basis. Why the hell would a foreign leader not try and influence policy based on their interests? What do you think we are doing with Iran? What do you think we are doing with North Korea and China?

And finally, this post has nothing to do with your last one.

Our record is imperfect, but generally we have interfered to defy totalitarianism. Although our last three presidents have squandered our standing as a shining city on a hill. But once you equate the US motives with Putins, you accept what happened in Syria as inevitable.

I am not equating our motives with Russia's motives. I am equating the ACTIONS.

And no, claims that we are generally trying to limit totalitarianism are not correct. We support quite a lot of totalitarians when they align with our interests.

It is also worth pointing out that, generally, our efforts to oust totalitarianism have ended in abysmal failure. Iraq is a shinning example here - a totalitarian that we basically bolstered for years and when we did try and oust him it did not go well at all.

Well Iraq is the best the ME has for passing as a democratic republic. I think W was wrong, but they do have elections.

And the Sandanistas would not have opted for democratic elections without Reagan.

It is often a choice of bad and not so bad. As in Syria.

AND ALL ACTIONS ARE INFLUENCED BY MOTIVE. And our motives are not like Putins

 

[FA_Q2]

In 1960 when Stephenson reported to the FBI about the approach by the Soviets with an offer of aid in that years upcoming election, I don't think anyone was surprised by the fact that they tried.

I don't think anyone should be surprised that they tried to interfere in 2016 or again in 2020......

That really wasn't what was surprising or different in 2016 was it?

No it was not. Clearly you want to make a point so make it.

In 1960 when Stephenson reported to the FBI about the approach by the Soviets with an offer of aid in that years upcoming election, I don't think anyone was surprised by the fact that they tried.

I don't think anyone should be surprised that they tried to interfere in 2016 or again in 2020......

That really wasn't what was surprising or different in 2016 was it?

No it was not. Clearly you want to make a point so make it.

CU allowed a lot more money from undisclosed sources than ever before. The reach of information technology is greater than ever before. But that reach is targeting technology, not useful information for citizens wanting to make informed discussion. Yes it's too bad people form their opinions based on headlines but....

The problem is not so much getting information from sensationalized titles, it is only accepting information that agrees with preconceived notions.

CU is not the source of that and money is not even relevant here. Russia spent pennies on their actions. Technology has given bad interests more reach but it has also given us a LOT more power to verify and check.

In the past, whatever lie your local newspaper gave you was something that you were simply going to have to take at face value. There simply was no way to truly verify the veracity of information you gained from print sources and/or rumors. Today all that information is right at your fingertips. Tech has given us FAR more positive solutions than negative impacts with regard to information.

 

[FA_Q2]

This is not a thread about Trump in any shape or form. This is not a thread on collusion. There are a thousand threads on those subjects, go there if that is what you want to talk about.

There is a lot of outrage over Russia and the fact that they tried to influence our election as well as the reality that they are very likely to continue to do so. There are a lot of calls to prevent them from doing so in the future as well.

I find this outrage not only misplaced but insanely disingenuous. First, there seems to be almost no outrage whatsoever when the US directly interferes with other nations elections as we have done before and will continue to do so in the future when we feel our foreign interests dictate we do so. We have been doing so for over 50 years.

Russia Isn’t the Only One Meddling in Elections. We Do It, Too.
“If you ask an intelligence officer, did the Russians break the rules or do something bizarre, the answer is no, not at all,” said Steven L. Hall, who retired in 2015 after 30 years at the C.I.A., where he was the chief of Russian operations. The United States “absolutely” has carried out such election influence operations historically, he said, “and I hope we keep doing it.”

Not only is what Russia did apparently normal on the world stage but I grantee that we have been far more damaging in some of the smaller nations we have interfered with than Russian attempts to interfere with our elections. Even more hilarious is we have interfered with Russia.

More telling is what Russia actually did to interfere with our election. They hacked and released emails which amounted to releasing truth about some of the more distasteful things the Democratic Party engaged in. This is not really something I am about to set my hair on fire for. It is not even a problem for the nation at large but rather a private digital security problem for the party. As far as I know, Russia failed to hack any governmental system in this attack.

Russia also paid trolls to post fake shit on Facebook, Twitter and fake news pages. This is where the real problem lies but not with Russian actions. The problem is that the electorate believes this crap. Fake news is not new by any stretch of the imagination. Today, the electorate has more tools and sources to verify false reports than at any time in history. People swallowing troll BS is the core of the problem, not trolls. Most of the reporting that focuses on Russian interference seems to be nothing more than trying to blame our ignorance as an electorate on Russian trolls.

There is almost nothing for the government to do here to 'prevent' future Russian interference. What we need to do in general is stop being so apathetic with respect to our own obligations in electing our representatives. That is the true problem - the tendency for partisans to swallow any swill that appears to agree with their preconceived notions. Interference is a very minor blip in that problem as well as it corrupts our society in many ways most more pervasive than this.

When we interfere in elections to promote an election free from state dominance, it's not a bad thing.

Obama should not have become involved in Israel's election, even though Netanyahu was interfering with policy decisions here. US Jews of course are welcome to policy discussions, but foreigners .. not so much.

Why not?

We interfere in governmental policy of nations on a daily basis. Why the hell would a foreign leader not try and influence policy based on their interests? What do you think we are doing with Iran? What do you think we are doing with North Korea and China?

And finally, this post has nothing to do with your last one.

Our record is imperfect, but generally we have interfered to defy totalitarianism. Although our last three presidents have squandered our standing as a shining city on a hill. But once you equate the US motives with Putins, you accept what happened in Syria as inevitable.

I am not equating our motives with Russia's motives. I am equating the ACTIONS.

And no, claims that we are generally trying to limit totalitarianism are not correct. We support quite a lot of totalitarians when they align with our interests.

It is also worth pointing out that, generally, our efforts to oust totalitarianism have ended in abysmal failure. Iraq is a shinning example here - a totalitarian that we basically bolstered for years and when we did try and oust him it did not go well at all.

Well Iraq is the best the ME has for passing as a democratic republic. I think W was wrong, but they do have elections.

And the Sandanistas would not have opted for democratic elections without Reagan.

It is often a choice of bad and not so bad. As in Syria.

AND ALL ACTIONS ARE INFLUENCED BY MOTIVE. And our motives are not like Putins

And our actions not being motivated like Putin's have nothing to do with faux outrage over influencing our elections.

 

[Flash]

Let us all stop foreign interference in the 2020 election. Have strict voter ID requirements.

You already have to have an ID to vote.

That is one of the most stupid post I have seen in a long time knowing how lax the requirements are to get into the polling booth in the commie states.

3-5 million Illegals voted in 2016. Some credible estimates as high as seven million. All of the filthy ass shitheads were foreigners. The way to stop foreign interference in American elections is to stop the Illegals from voting. Of course if we did that no Democrat would ever win an election again, would they?

The stupid Moon Bats want to have open borders so that the Illegals can flood in and do the job that Americans don't want to do - vote Democrat.

If they were credible you would post them. Instead, just more hyperbole and name calling.

Everyone of those Libtard Democrat candidates raised their hands when asked if they would support open borders. Despicable, wasn't it?

The assholes didn't do it because they liked taco trucks. They liked the votes that the Illegals do for the Democrats.

 

[bendog]

When we interfere in elections to promote an election free from state dominance, it's not a bad thing.

Obama should not have become involved in Israel's election, even though Netanyahu was interfering with policy decisions here. US Jews of course are welcome to policy discussions, but foreigners .. not so much.

Why not?

We interfere in governmental policy of nations on a daily basis. Why the hell would a foreign leader not try and influence policy based on their interests? What do you think we are doing with Iran? What do you think we are doing with North Korea and China?

And finally, this post has nothing to do with your last one.

Our record is imperfect, but generally we have interfered to defy totalitarianism. Although our last three presidents have squandered our standing as a shining city on a hill. But once you equate the US motives with Putins, you accept what happened in Syria as inevitable.

I am not equating our motives with Russia's motives. I am equating the ACTIONS.

And no, claims that we are generally trying to limit totalitarianism are not correct. We support quite a lot of totalitarians when they align with our interests.

It is also worth pointing out that, generally, our efforts to oust totalitarianism have ended in abysmal failure. Iraq is a shinning example here - a totalitarian that we basically bolstered for years and when we did try and oust him it did not go well at all.

Well Iraq is the best the ME has for passing as a democratic republic. I think W was wrong, but they do have elections.

And the Sandanistas would not have opted for democratic elections without Reagan.

It is often a choice of bad and not so bad. As in Syria.

AND ALL ACTIONS ARE INFLUENCED BY MOTIVE. And our motives are not like Putins

And our actions not being motivated like Putin's have nothing to do with faux outrage over influencing our elections.

Putin influenced the election simply so he would not have the US interfering with his manipulation of borders and governments. So there's no "faux" outrage. And you can bet that he's paying off Moscow Mitch.

 

[busybee01]

This is not a thread about Trump in any shape or form. This is not a thread on collusion. There are a thousand threads on those subjects, go there if that is what you want to talk about.

There is a lot of outrage over Russia and the fact that they tried to influence our election as well as the reality that they are very likely to continue to do so. There are a lot of calls to prevent them from doing so in the future as well.

I find this outrage not only misplaced but insanely disingenuous. First, there seems to be almost no outrage whatsoever when the US directly interferes with other nations elections as we have done before and will continue to do so in the future when we feel our foreign interests dictate we do so. We have been doing so for over 50 years.

Russia Isn’t the Only One Meddling in Elections. We Do It, Too.
“If you ask an intelligence officer, did the Russians break the rules or do something bizarre, the answer is no, not at all,” said Steven L. Hall, who retired in 2015 after 30 years at the C.I.A., where he was the chief of Russian operations. The United States “absolutely” has carried out such election influence operations historically, he said, “and I hope we keep doing it.”

Not only is what Russia did apparently normal on the world stage but I grantee that we have been far more damaging in some of the smaller nations we have interfered with than Russian attempts to interfere with our elections. Even more hilarious is we have interfered with Russia.

More telling is what Russia actually did to interfere with our election. They hacked and released emails which amounted to releasing truth about some of the more distasteful things the Democratic Party engaged in. This is not really something I am about to set my hair on fire for. It is not even a problem for the nation at large but rather a private digital security problem for the party. As far as I know, Russia failed to hack any governmental system in this attack.

Russia also paid trolls to post fake shit on Facebook, Twitter and fake news pages. This is where the real problem lies but not with Russian actions. The problem is that the electorate believes this crap. Fake news is not new by any stretch of the imagination. Today, the electorate has more tools and sources to verify false reports than at any time in history. People swallowing troll BS is the core of the problem, not trolls. Most of the reporting that focuses on Russian interference seems to be nothing more than trying to blame our ignorance as an electorate on Russian trolls.

There is almost nothing for the government to do here to 'prevent' future Russian interference. What we need to do in general is stop being so apathetic with respect to our own obligations in electing our representatives. That is the true problem - the tendency for partisans to swallow any swill that appears to agree with their preconceived notions. Interference is a very minor blip in that problem as well as it corrupts our society in many ways most more pervasive than this.

There was no hacking of emails. That was debunked. They were accessed from inside by The Pakistani Hackers Clinton hired to hack in to Congressional Files and find dirt on her enemies. They and Seth Rich became Bernie fans and when they discovered how they railroaded Bernie Sanders they used their Administrative Access to get even and copied Dirty Tony Podesta's Emails which revealed how racist, vengeful, hateful these people are.

Russia had nothing to do with Hillary being an Evil Calloused Bitch.

That has not been debunked. Russians hacked the DNC servers and launched a phishing attack against Podesta. They then fenced the e-mails on WikiLeaks and put fake information in with the legitimate e-mails. How much is Russia paying you to protect them.

 

[pknopp]

This is not a thread about Trump in any shape or form. This is not a thread on collusion. There are a thousand threads on those subjects, go there if that is what you want to talk about.

There is a lot of outrage over Russia and the fact that they tried to influence our election as well as the reality that they are very likely to continue to do so. There are a lot of calls to prevent them from doing so in the future as well.

I find this outrage not only misplaced but insanely disingenuous. First, there seems to be almost no outrage whatsoever when the US directly interferes with other nations elections as we have done before and will continue to do so in the future when we feel our foreign interests dictate we do so. We have been doing so for over 50 years.

Russia Isn’t the Only One Meddling in Elections. We Do It, Too.
“If you ask an intelligence officer, did the Russians break the rules or do something bizarre, the answer is no, not at all,” said Steven L. Hall, who retired in 2015 after 30 years at the C.I.A., where he was the chief of Russian operations. The United States “absolutely” has carried out such election influence operations historically, he said, “and I hope we keep doing it.”

Not only is what Russia did apparently normal on the world stage but I grantee that we have been far more damaging in some of the smaller nations we have interfered with than Russian attempts to interfere with our elections. Even more hilarious is we have interfered with Russia.

More telling is what Russia actually did to interfere with our election. They hacked and released emails which amounted to releasing truth about some of the more distasteful things the Democratic Party engaged in. This is not really something I am about to set my hair on fire for. It is not even a problem for the nation at large but rather a private digital security problem for the party. As far as I know, Russia failed to hack any governmental system in this attack.

Russia also paid trolls to post fake shit on Facebook, Twitter and fake news pages. This is where the real problem lies but not with Russian actions. The problem is that the electorate believes this crap. Fake news is not new by any stretch of the imagination. Today, the electorate has more tools and sources to verify false reports than at any time in history. People swallowing troll BS is the core of the problem, not trolls. Most of the reporting that focuses on Russian interference seems to be nothing more than trying to blame our ignorance as an electorate on Russian trolls.

There is almost nothing for the government to do here to 'prevent' future Russian interference. What we need to do in general is stop being so apathetic with respect to our own obligations in electing our representatives. That is the true problem - the tendency for partisans to swallow any swill that appears to agree with their preconceived notions. Interference is a very minor blip in that problem as well as it corrupts our society in many ways most more pervasive than this.

There was no hacking of emails. That was debunked. They were accessed from inside by The Pakistani Hackers Clinton hired to hack in to Congressional Files and find dirt on her enemies. They and Seth Rich became Bernie fans and when they discovered how they railroaded Bernie Sanders they used their Administrative Access to get even and copied Dirty Tony Podesta's Emails which revealed how racist, vengeful, hateful these people are.

Russia had nothing to do with Hillary being an Evil Calloused Bitch.

That has not been debunked. Russians hacked the DNC servers and launched a phishing attack against Podesta. They then fenced the e-mails on WikiLeaks and put fake information in with the legitimate e-mails. How much is Russia paying you to protect them.

Wiki said that they did not get the info from Russia. As far as I know, Wiki has never lied to us.......now our country, that is another story. It has lied to us over and over.

 

[busybee01]

Let us all stop foreign interference in the 2020 election. Have strict voter ID requirements.

You already have to have an ID to vote.

That is one of the most stupid post I have seen in a long time knowing how lax the requirements are to get into the polling booth in the commie states.

3-5 million Illegals voted in 2016. Some credible estimates as high as seven million. All of the filthy ass shitheads were foreigners. The way to stop foreign interference in American elections is to stop the Illegals from voting. Of course if we did that no Democrat would ever win an election again, would they?

The stupid Moon Bats want to have open borders so that the Illegals can flood in and do the job that Americans don't want to do - vote Democrat.

Your post is the most stupid one. You are a liar of the worst kind. There are no credible estimates and your estimates are stupid and baseless. The fact is tat Republicans are the party most likely to go extinct as every minority group as well as women votes against them.

 

[busybee01]

There are conspiracy theories but everyone concedes that there is no way that Russia could change voting tally in favor of one candidate or another, so what is it all about? Russia's intent has always been to use propaganda to cause chaos and mistrust of America's voting system and to undermine lawfully elected administrations as well as the fabric of society. Now ask yourself which political party has done the most along those lines. The ironic thing is that the mainstream media has engaged with the democrat party to undermine the results of the election and democrats are the ones who reached out to foreign agents.

This is not a thread about Trump in any shape or form. This is not a thread on collusion. There are a thousand threads on those subjects, go there if that is what you want to talk about.

There is a lot of outrage over Russia and the fact that they tried to influence our election as well as the reality that they are very likely to continue to do so. There are a lot of calls to prevent them from doing so in the future as well.

I find this outrage not only misplaced but insanely disingenuous. First, there seems to be almost no outrage whatsoever when the US directly interferes with other nations elections as we have done before and will continue to do so in the future when we feel our foreign interests dictate we do so. We have been doing so for over 50 years.

Russia Isn’t the Only One Meddling in Elections. We Do It, Too.
“If you ask an intelligence officer, did the Russians break the rules or do something bizarre, the answer is no, not at all,” said Steven L. Hall, who retired in 2015 after 30 years at the C.I.A., where he was the chief of Russian operations. The United States “absolutely” has carried out such election influence operations historically, he said, “and I hope we keep doing it.”

Not only is what Russia did apparently normal on the world stage but I grantee that we have been far more damaging in some of the smaller nations we have interfered with than Russian attempts to interfere with our elections. Even more hilarious is we have interfered with Russia.

More telling is what Russia actually did to interfere with our election. They hacked and released emails which amounted to releasing truth about some of the more distasteful things the Democratic Party engaged in. This is not really something I am about to set my hair on fire for. It is not even a problem for the nation at large but rather a private digital security problem for the party. As far as I know, Russia failed to hack any governmental system in this attack.

Russia also paid trolls to post fake shit on Facebook, Twitter and fake news pages. This is where the real problem lies but not with Russian actions. The problem is that the electorate believes this crap. Fake news is not new by any stretch of the imagination. Today, the electorate has more tools and sources to verify false reports than at any time in history. People swallowing troll BS is the core of the problem, not trolls. Most of the reporting that focuses on Russian interference seems to be nothing more than trying to blame our ignorance as an electorate on Russian trolls.

There is almost nothing for the government to do here to 'prevent' future Russian interference. What we need to do in general is stop being so apathetic with respect to our own obligations in electing our representatives. That is the true problem - the tendency for partisans to swallow any swill that appears to agree with their preconceived notions. Interference is a very minor blip in that problem as well as it corrupts our society in many ways most more pervasive than this.

There was no hacking of emails. That was debunked. They were accessed from inside by The Pakistani Hackers Clinton hired to hack in to Congressional Files and find dirt on her enemies. They and Seth Rich became Bernie fans and when they discovered how they railroaded Bernie Sanders they used their Administrative Access to get even and copied Dirty Tony Podesta's Emails which revealed how racist, vengeful, hateful these people are.

Russia had nothing to do with Hillary being an Evil Calloused Bitch.

That has not been debunked. Russians hacked the DNC servers and launched a phishing attack against Podesta. They then fenced the e-mails on WikiLeaks and put fake information in with the legitimate e-mails. How much is Russia paying you to protect them.

Wiki said that they did not get the info from Russia. As far as I know, Wiki has never lied to us.......now our country, that is another story. It has lied to us over and over.

Assange is a liar. Putin as made numerous payments to Assange and that was not due to the fact that Putin likes the way he parts his hair. Assange hates the US as he has put top secret information from the US on WikiLeaks.

 

[pknopp]

There are conspiracy theories but everyone concedes that there is no way that Russia could change voting tally in favor of one candidate or another, so what is it all about? Russia's intent has always been to use propaganda to cause chaos and mistrust of America's voting system and to undermine lawfully elected administrations as well as the fabric of society. Now ask yourself which political party has done the most along those lines. The ironic thing is that the mainstream media has engaged with the democrat party to undermine the results of the election and democrats are the ones who reached out to foreign agents.

This is not a thread about Trump in any shape or form. This is not a thread on collusion. There are a thousand threads on those subjects, go there if that is what you want to talk about.

There is a lot of outrage over Russia and the fact that they tried to influence our election as well as the reality that they are very likely to continue to do so. There are a lot of calls to prevent them from doing so in the future as well.

I find this outrage not only misplaced but insanely disingenuous. First, there seems to be almost no outrage whatsoever when the US directly interferes with other nations elections as we have done before and will continue to do so in the future when we feel our foreign interests dictate we do so. We have been doing so for over 50 years.

Russia Isn’t the Only One Meddling in Elections. We Do It, Too.
“If you ask an intelligence officer, did the Russians break the rules or do something bizarre, the answer is no, not at all,” said Steven L. Hall, who retired in 2015 after 30 years at the C.I.A., where he was the chief of Russian operations. The United States “absolutely” has carried out such election influence operations historically, he said, “and I hope we keep doing it.”

Not only is what Russia did apparently normal on the world stage but I grantee that we have been far more damaging in some of the smaller nations we have interfered with than Russian attempts to interfere with our elections. Even more hilarious is we have interfered with Russia.

More telling is what Russia actually did to interfere with our election. They hacked and released emails which amounted to releasing truth about some of the more distasteful things the Democratic Party engaged in. This is not really something I am about to set my hair on fire for. It is not even a problem for the nation at large but rather a private digital security problem for the party. As far as I know, Russia failed to hack any governmental system in this attack.

Russia also paid trolls to post fake shit on Facebook, Twitter and fake news pages. This is where the real problem lies but not with Russian actions. The problem is that the electorate believes this crap. Fake news is not new by any stretch of the imagination. Today, the electorate has more tools and sources to verify false reports than at any time in history. People swallowing troll BS is the core of the problem, not trolls. Most of the reporting that focuses on Russian interference seems to be nothing more than trying to blame our ignorance as an electorate on Russian trolls.

There is almost nothing for the government to do here to 'prevent' future Russian interference. What we need to do in general is stop being so apathetic with respect to our own obligations in electing our representatives. That is the true problem - the tendency for partisans to swallow any swill that appears to agree with their preconceived notions. Interference is a very minor blip in that problem as well as it corrupts our society in many ways most more pervasive than this.

There was no hacking of emails. That was debunked. They were accessed from inside by The Pakistani Hackers Clinton hired to hack in to Congressional Files and find dirt on her enemies. They and Seth Rich became Bernie fans and when they discovered how they railroaded Bernie Sanders they used their Administrative Access to get even and copied Dirty Tony Podesta's Emails which revealed how racist, vengeful, hateful these people are.

Russia had nothing to do with Hillary being an Evil Calloused Bitch.

That has not been debunked. Russians hacked the DNC servers and launched a phishing attack against Podesta. They then fenced the e-mails on WikiLeaks and put fake information in with the legitimate e-mails. How much is Russia paying you to protect them.

Wiki said that they did not get the info from Russia. As far as I know, Wiki has never lied to us.......now our country, that is another story. It has lied to us over and over.

Assange is a liar. Putin as made numerous payments to Assange and that was not due to the fact that Putin likes the way he parts his hair. Assange hates the US as he has put top secret information from the US on WikiLeaks.

What has Assange lied about?

 

[The Original Tree]

I think The DNC is who lied. Why would they hire Pakistani Hackers with Criminal Records?

Why after getting caught hacking in to Congressional Files would Clinton take that same Hacker with her in her campaign?

There are conspiracy theories but everyone concedes that there is no way that Russia could change voting tally in favor of one candidate or another, so what is it all about? Russia's intent has always been to use propaganda to cause chaos and mistrust of America's voting system and to undermine lawfully elected administrations as well as the fabric of society. Now ask yourself which political party has done the most along those lines. The ironic thing is that the mainstream media has engaged with the democrat party to undermine the results of the election and democrats are the ones who reached out to foreign agents.

This is not a thread about Trump in any shape or form. This is not a thread on collusion. There are a thousand threads on those subjects, go there if that is what you want to talk about.

There is a lot of outrage over Russia and the fact that they tried to influence our election as well as the reality that they are very likely to continue to do so. There are a lot of calls to prevent them from doing so in the future as well.

I find this outrage not only misplaced but insanely disingenuous. First, there seems to be almost no outrage whatsoever when the US directly interferes with other nations elections as we have done before and will continue to do so in the future when we feel our foreign interests dictate we do so. We have been doing so for over 50 years.

Russia Isn’t the Only One Meddling in Elections. We Do It, Too.
“If you ask an intelligence officer, did the Russians break the rules or do something bizarre, the answer is no, not at all,” said Steven L. Hall, who retired in 2015 after 30 years at the C.I.A., where he was the chief of Russian operations. The United States “absolutely” has carried out such election influence operations historically, he said, “and I hope we keep doing it.”

Not only is what Russia did apparently normal on the world stage but I grantee that we have been far more damaging in some of the smaller nations we have interfered with than Russian attempts to interfere with our elections. Even more hilarious is we have interfered with Russia.

More telling is what Russia actually did to interfere with our election. They hacked and released emails which amounted to releasing truth about some of the more distasteful things the Democratic Party engaged in. This is not really something I am about to set my hair on fire for. It is not even a problem for the nation at large but rather a private digital security problem for the party. As far as I know, Russia failed to hack any governmental system in this attack.

Russia also paid trolls to post fake shit on Facebook, Twitter and fake news pages. This is where the real problem lies but not with Russian actions. The problem is that the electorate believes this crap. Fake news is not new by any stretch of the imagination. Today, the electorate has more tools and sources to verify false reports than at any time in history. People swallowing troll BS is the core of the problem, not trolls. Most of the reporting that focuses on Russian interference seems to be nothing more than trying to blame our ignorance as an electorate on Russian trolls.

There is almost nothing for the government to do here to 'prevent' future Russian interference. What we need to do in general is stop being so apathetic with respect to our own obligations in electing our representatives. That is the true problem - the tendency for partisans to swallow any swill that appears to agree with their preconceived notions. Interference is a very minor blip in that problem as well as it corrupts our society in many ways most more pervasive than this.

There was no hacking of emails. That was debunked. They were accessed from inside by The Pakistani Hackers Clinton hired to hack in to Congressional Files and find dirt on her enemies. They and Seth Rich became Bernie fans and when they discovered how they railroaded Bernie Sanders they used their Administrative Access to get even and copied Dirty Tony Podesta's Emails which revealed how racist, vengeful, hateful these people are.

Russia had nothing to do with Hillary being an Evil Calloused Bitch.

That has not been debunked. Russians hacked the DNC servers and launched a phishing attack against Podesta. They then fenced the e-mails on WikiLeaks and put fake information in with the legitimate e-mails. How much is Russia paying you to protect them.

Wiki said that they did not get the info from Russia. As far as I know, Wiki has never lied to us.......now our country, that is another story. It has lied to us over and over.

Assange is a liar. Putin as made numerous payments to Assange and that was not due to the fact that Putin likes the way he parts his hair. Assange hates the US as he has put top secret information from the US on WikiLeaks.

 

[The Original Tree]

Nothing.

Actually a judge threw out The DNC’s lawsuit against Wikileaks and Assange just recently alleging the same crap These Lefties try to convince of.

FAIL!

There are conspiracy theories but everyone concedes that there is no way that Russia could change voting tally in favor of one candidate or another, so what is it all about? Russia's intent has always been to use propaganda to cause chaos and mistrust of America's voting system and to undermine lawfully elected administrations as well as the fabric of society. Now ask yourself which political party has done the most along those lines. The ironic thing is that the mainstream media has engaged with the democrat party to undermine the results of the election and democrats are the ones who reached out to foreign agents.

This is not a thread about Trump in any shape or form. This is not a thread on collusion. There are a thousand threads on those subjects, go there if that is what you want to talk about.

There is a lot of outrage over Russia and the fact that they tried to influence our election as well as the reality that they are very likely to continue to do so. There are a lot of calls to prevent them from doing so in the future as well.

I find this outrage not only misplaced but insanely disingenuous. First, there seems to be almost no outrage whatsoever when the US directly interferes with other nations elections as we have done before and will continue to do so in the future when we feel our foreign interests dictate we do so. We have been doing so for over 50 years.

Russia Isn’t the Only One Meddling in Elections. We Do It, Too.
“If you ask an intelligence officer, did the Russians break the rules or do something bizarre, the answer is no, not at all,” said Steven L. Hall, who retired in 2015 after 30 years at the C.I.A., where he was the chief of Russian operations. The United States “absolutely” has carried out such election influence operations historically, he said, “and I hope we keep doing it.”

Not only is what Russia did apparently normal on the world stage but I grantee that we have been far more damaging in some of the smaller nations we have interfered with than Russian attempts to interfere with our elections. Even more hilarious is we have interfered with Russia.

More telling is what Russia actually did to interfere with our election. They hacked and released emails which amounted to releasing truth about some of the more distasteful things the Democratic Party engaged in. This is not really something I am about to set my hair on fire for. It is not even a problem for the nation at large but rather a private digital security problem for the party. As far as I know, Russia failed to hack any governmental system in this attack.

Russia also paid trolls to post fake shit on Facebook, Twitter and fake news pages. This is where the real problem lies but not with Russian actions. The problem is that the electorate believes this crap. Fake news is not new by any stretch of the imagination. Today, the electorate has more tools and sources to verify false reports than at any time in history. People swallowing troll BS is the core of the problem, not trolls. Most of the reporting that focuses on Russian interference seems to be nothing more than trying to blame our ignorance as an electorate on Russian trolls.

There is almost nothing for the government to do here to 'prevent' future Russian interference. What we need to do in general is stop being so apathetic with respect to our own obligations in electing our representatives. That is the true problem - the tendency for partisans to swallow any swill that appears to agree with their preconceived notions. Interference is a very minor blip in that problem as well as it corrupts our society in many ways most more pervasive than this.

There was no hacking of emails. That was debunked. They were accessed from inside by The Pakistani Hackers Clinton hired to hack in to Congressional Files and find dirt on her enemies. They and Seth Rich became Bernie fans and when they discovered how they railroaded Bernie Sanders they used their Administrative Access to get even and copied Dirty Tony Podesta's Emails which revealed how racist, vengeful, hateful these people are.

Russia had nothing to do with Hillary being an Evil Calloused Bitch.

That has not been debunked. Russians hacked the DNC servers and launched a phishing attack against Podesta. They then fenced the e-mails on WikiLeaks and put fake information in with the legitimate e-mails. How much is Russia paying you to protect them.

Wiki said that they did not get the info from Russia. As far as I know, Wiki has never lied to us.......now our country, that is another story. It has lied to us over and over.

Assange is a liar. Putin as made numerous payments to Assange and that was not due to the fact that Putin likes the way he parts his hair. Assange hates the US as he has put top secret information from the US on WikiLeaks.

What has Assange lied about?

 

[FA_Q2]

Why not?

We interfere in governmental policy of nations on a daily basis. Why the hell would a foreign leader not try and influence policy based on their interests? What do you think we are doing with Iran? What do you think we are doing with North Korea and China?

And finally, this post has nothing to do with your last one.

Our record is imperfect, but generally we have interfered to defy totalitarianism. Although our last three presidents have squandered our standing as a shining city on a hill. But once you equate the US motives with Putins, you accept what happened in Syria as inevitable.

I am not equating our motives with Russia's motives. I am equating the ACTIONS.

And no, claims that we are generally trying to limit totalitarianism are not correct. We support quite a lot of totalitarians when they align with our interests.

It is also worth pointing out that, generally, our efforts to oust totalitarianism have ended in abysmal failure. Iraq is a shinning example here - a totalitarian that we basically bolstered for years and when we did try and oust him it did not go well at all.

Well Iraq is the best the ME has for passing as a democratic republic. I think W was wrong, but they do have elections.

And the Sandanistas would not have opted for democratic elections without Reagan.

It is often a choice of bad and not so bad. As in Syria.

AND ALL ACTIONS ARE INFLUENCED BY MOTIVE. And our motives are not like Putins

And our actions not being motivated like Putin's have nothing to do with faux outrage over influencing our elections.

Putin influenced the election simply so he would not have the US interfering with his manipulation of borders and governments. So there's no "faux" outrage. And you can bet that he's paying off Moscow Mitch.

And yet the US is interfering with Russia quite a bit. The only thing holding us back is Europe because their economy is tied closely with Russian oil.

And Putin is paying Mitch? What do you base that fantasy on? You have put several red harrings out there to prop up this idea that the world should be doing as we say rather than as we do. It is simply not possible to take the moral high ground in an issue that you are taking the same actions in. Demanding that we have more altruistic reasons behind those actions does not make the actions we take simply go away.

Asinine conjectures on McConnell does not change that.

 

[FA_Q2]

There are conspiracy theories but everyone concedes that there is no way that Russia could change voting tally in favor of one candidate or another, so what is it all about? Russia's intent has always been to use propaganda to cause chaos and mistrust of America's voting system and to undermine lawfully elected administrations as well as the fabric of society. Now ask yourself which political party has done the most along those lines. The ironic thing is that the mainstream media has engaged with the democrat party to undermine the results of the election and democrats are the ones who reached out to foreign agents.

This is not a thread about Trump in any shape or form. This is not a thread on collusion. There are a thousand threads on those subjects, go there if that is what you want to talk about.

There is a lot of outrage over Russia and the fact that they tried to influence our election as well as the reality that they are very likely to continue to do so. There are a lot of calls to prevent them from doing so in the future as well.

I find this outrage not only misplaced but insanely disingenuous. First, there seems to be almost no outrage whatsoever when the US directly interferes with other nations elections as we have done before and will continue to do so in the future when we feel our foreign interests dictate we do so. We have been doing so for over 50 years.

Russia Isn’t the Only One Meddling in Elections. We Do It, Too.
“If you ask an intelligence officer, did the Russians break the rules or do something bizarre, the answer is no, not at all,” said Steven L. Hall, who retired in 2015 after 30 years at the C.I.A., where he was the chief of Russian operations. The United States “absolutely” has carried out such election influence operations historically, he said, “and I hope we keep doing it.”

Not only is what Russia did apparently normal on the world stage but I grantee that we have been far more damaging in some of the smaller nations we have interfered with than Russian attempts to interfere with our elections. Even more hilarious is we have interfered with Russia.

More telling is what Russia actually did to interfere with our election. They hacked and released emails which amounted to releasing truth about some of the more distasteful things the Democratic Party engaged in. This is not really something I am about to set my hair on fire for. It is not even a problem for the nation at large but rather a private digital security problem for the party. As far as I know, Russia failed to hack any governmental system in this attack.

Russia also paid trolls to post fake shit on Facebook, Twitter and fake news pages. This is where the real problem lies but not with Russian actions. The problem is that the electorate believes this crap. Fake news is not new by any stretch of the imagination. Today, the electorate has more tools and sources to verify false reports than at any time in history. People swallowing troll BS is the core of the problem, not trolls. Most of the reporting that focuses on Russian interference seems to be nothing more than trying to blame our ignorance as an electorate on Russian trolls.

There is almost nothing for the government to do here to 'prevent' future Russian interference. What we need to do in general is stop being so apathetic with respect to our own obligations in electing our representatives. That is the true problem - the tendency for partisans to swallow any swill that appears to agree with their preconceived notions. Interference is a very minor blip in that problem as well as it corrupts our society in many ways most more pervasive than this.

There was no hacking of emails. That was debunked. They were accessed from inside by The Pakistani Hackers Clinton hired to hack in to Congressional Files and find dirt on her enemies. They and Seth Rich became Bernie fans and when they discovered how they railroaded Bernie Sanders they used their Administrative Access to get even and copied Dirty Tony Podesta's Emails which revealed how racist, vengeful, hateful these people are.

Russia had nothing to do with Hillary being an Evil Calloused Bitch.

That has not been debunked. Russians hacked the DNC servers and launched a phishing attack against Podesta. They then fenced the e-mails on WikiLeaks and put fake information in with the legitimate e-mails. How much is Russia paying you to protect them.

Wiki said that they did not get the info from Russia. As far as I know, Wiki has never lied to us.......now our country, that is another story. It has lied to us over and over.

Assange is a liar. Putin as made numerous payments to Assange and that was not due to the fact that Putin likes the way he parts his hair. Assange hates the US as he has put top secret information from the US on WikiLeaks.

What has Assange lied about?

His source for one.

It is pretty well established that he is tied quite closely with Putin and that means, by extension, he has goals that are not aligned with the well being of the US.

If you are going to simply disregard any proof as lies from our own intelligence agencies (not to mention those of foreign intelligence agencies) then you are not seeking truth but confirmation instead. You cant declare something as false simply because it does not agree with a preconceived notion.

 

[pknopp]

There are conspiracy theories but everyone concedes that there is no way that Russia could change voting tally in favor of one candidate or another, so what is it all about? Russia's intent has always been to use propaganda to cause chaos and mistrust of America's voting system and to undermine lawfully elected administrations as well as the fabric of society. Now ask yourself which political party has done the most along those lines. The ironic thing is that the mainstream media has engaged with the democrat party to undermine the results of the election and democrats are the ones who reached out to foreign agents.

There was no hacking of emails. That was debunked. They were accessed from inside by The Pakistani Hackers Clinton hired to hack in to Congressional Files and find dirt on her enemies. They and Seth Rich became Bernie fans and when they discovered how they railroaded Bernie Sanders they used their Administrative Access to get even and copied Dirty Tony Podesta's Emails which revealed how racist, vengeful, hateful these people are.

Russia had nothing to do with Hillary being an Evil Calloused Bitch.

That has not been debunked. Russians hacked the DNC servers and launched a phishing attack against Podesta. They then fenced the e-mails on WikiLeaks and put fake information in with the legitimate e-mails. How much is Russia paying you to protect them.

Wiki said that they did not get the info from Russia. As far as I know, Wiki has never lied to us.......now our country, that is another story. It has lied to us over and over.

Assange is a liar. Putin as made numerous payments to Assange and that was not due to the fact that Putin likes the way he parts his hair. Assange hates the US as he has put top secret information from the US on WikiLeaks.

What has Assange lied about?

His source for one.

It is pretty well established that he is tied quite closely with Putin and that means, by extension, he has goals that are not aligned with the well being of the US.

If you are going to simply disregard any proof as lies from our own intelligence agencies (not to mention those of foreign intelligence agencies) then you are not seeking truth but confirmation instead. You cant declare something as false simply because it does not agree with a preconceived notion.

Our intelligence agencies routinely lie to us. Clapper went in front of the country and lied to us under oath. You didn't show where Wiki has lied about anything. The forensic evidence even backs Wiki.