The truth about Truman’s bombing Japan

[RetiredGySgt]

so the plan is to --------wait?? not use the bombs and ---wait???!!
till when??
out of about 20,000 Japanese on Iwo Jima, only about 300 taken prisoner/etc
they are NOT surrendering
they put up an even tougher defense on Okinawa--with OVER 10,000 American dead
I say again --ten THOUSAND American dead--over FORTY THOUSAND casualties

Neither one of those battles necessarily had to happen at all if the scumbag FDR hadn’t completely ignored the overtures for surrender the general MacArthur and forward it to him before the scum bag and left for Yalta. He glanced at the extensive report MacArthur had sent and dismissed it. Did not even take or mention the offer of surrender at Yalta.

they were not accepting unconditional surrender --plain and simple--can't be denied

The conditions we DID accept when all was said and done were exactly the same as those offered in the peace overtures that the scumbag fdr ignored long before many, many American servicemen died in subsequent battles that might not have had to take place.

No they WERE not The Japanese Emperor offered Unconditional surrender dumb ass.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Ah, now MacArthur was secretly a Japanese agent? You wanna stick with that one? Might be time to take your condition to the conspiracy forum.

I can link to ACTUAL Government Documents you have a link to an unsubstantiated Newspaper story. Gee I wonder which is accurate.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Americans need to come to the realization that the bombings of civilians was really mass murder, not unlike what Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan were guilty of.

Great column on the subject.

The Atomic Bombing of Japan, Reconsidered
By Alan Mosley
Mises.org

January 2, 2019

Russia’s move, in fact, compelled the Japanese to consider unconditional surrender; until then, they were only open to a conditional surrender that left their Emperor Hirohito some dignity and protections from war-crimes trials. Ward concludes that, as in the European theatre, Truman didn’t beat Japan; Stalin did.

Harry Truman never expressed regret publicly over his decision to use the atomic bombs. However, he did order an independent study on the state of the war effort leading up to August of 1945, and the strategic value of the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings. In 1946, the U.S. Bombing Survey published its findings, which concluded as follows: “Based on a detailed investigation of all the facts and supported by the testimony of the surviving Japanese leaders involved, it is the Survey’s opinion that certainly prior to 31 December 1945 and in all probability prior to 1 November 1945, Japan would have surrendered even if the atomic bombs had not been dropped, even if Russia had not entered the war, and even if no invasion had been planned or contemplated.” This is an intensive condemnation of Truman’s decision, seeing as Russia did enter the war, and that plans for an invasion had been developed.

As Timothy P. Carney writes for the Washington Examiner, the fog of war can be a tricky thing. But if we’re forced to side with Truman, or Eisenhower and the other dissenting military leaders, the Eisenhower position isn’t merely valid; it actually aligns better with some fundamental American values. Given all the uncertainty, both at the time and with modern historical revisionism, it’s better to look to principle rather than fortune-telling. One principle that should be near the top of everyone’s list is this: it’s wrong to target civilians with weapons of mass destruction. The deliberate killing of innocent men, women, and children by the hundreds of thousands cannot be justified under any circumstances, much less the ambiguous ones Truman encountered. Whether his decision was motivated by indignation toward Japanese “ pigheadedness” or concern for his troops, Truman’s use of such devastating weapons against non-combatants should not be excused. Americans must strive for complete and honest analysis of the past (and present) conflicts. And if she is to remain true to her own ideals, America must strive for more noble and moral ends—in all conflicts, domestic and foreign—guided by our most cherished first principles, such as the Golden Rule. At the very least, Americans should not try so hard to justify mass murder.

The Atomic Bombing of Japan - LewRockwell LewRockwell.com

yeah truman was a mass murderer who should have been tried like the nuremberg trials.the REAL history we were never taught in our corrupt school system is that japen offered to surrender and our government ignored them.

i see that little truth hurts the feelings of the brainwashed sheep harmonica and markie.this is them after hearing the truth on this.

 

[harmonica]

Americans need to come to the realization that the bombings of civilians was really mass murder, not unlike what Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan were guilty of.

Great column on the subject.

The Atomic Bombing of Japan, Reconsidered
By Alan Mosley
Mises.org

January 2, 2019

Russia’s move, in fact, compelled the Japanese to consider unconditional surrender; until then, they were only open to a conditional surrender that left their Emperor Hirohito some dignity and protections from war-crimes trials. Ward concludes that, as in the European theatre, Truman didn’t beat Japan; Stalin did.

Harry Truman never expressed regret publicly over his decision to use the atomic bombs. However, he did order an independent study on the state of the war effort leading up to August of 1945, and the strategic value of the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings. In 1946, the U.S. Bombing Survey published its findings, which concluded as follows: “Based on a detailed investigation of all the facts and supported by the testimony of the surviving Japanese leaders involved, it is the Survey’s opinion that certainly prior to 31 December 1945 and in all probability prior to 1 November 1945, Japan would have surrendered even if the atomic bombs had not been dropped, even if Russia had not entered the war, and even if no invasion had been planned or contemplated.” This is an intensive condemnation of Truman’s decision, seeing as Russia did enter the war, and that plans for an invasion had been developed.

As Timothy P. Carney writes for the Washington Examiner, the fog of war can be a tricky thing. But if we’re forced to side with Truman, or Eisenhower and the other dissenting military leaders, the Eisenhower position isn’t merely valid; it actually aligns better with some fundamental American values. Given all the uncertainty, both at the time and with modern historical revisionism, it’s better to look to principle rather than fortune-telling. One principle that should be near the top of everyone’s list is this: it’s wrong to target civilians with weapons of mass destruction. The deliberate killing of innocent men, women, and children by the hundreds of thousands cannot be justified under any circumstances, much less the ambiguous ones Truman encountered. Whether his decision was motivated by indignation toward Japanese “ pigheadedness” or concern for his troops, Truman’s use of such devastating weapons against non-combatants should not be excused. Americans must strive for complete and honest analysis of the past (and present) conflicts. And if she is to remain true to her own ideals, America must strive for more noble and moral ends—in all conflicts, domestic and foreign—guided by our most cherished first principles, such as the Golden Rule. At the very least, Americans should not try so hard to justify mass murder.

The Atomic Bombing of Japan - LewRockwell LewRockwell.com

yeah truman was a mass murderer who should have been tried like the nuremberg trials.the REAL history we were never taught in our corrupt school system is that japen offered to surrender and our government ignored them.

i see that little truth hurts the feelings of the brainwashed sheep harmonica and markie.this is them after hearing the truth on this.

without the A bombs- no surrender

''The enemy has begun to employ a new and most cruel bomb, the power of which to do damage is indeed incalculable, taking the toll of many innocent lives,''

all you have to back up your crap is crap--no links/etc--just insults
hahahahahhaah
A Leader Who Took Japan to War, to Surrender, and Finally to Peace

 

[harmonica]

Americans need to come to the realization that the bombings of civilians was really mass murder, not unlike what Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan were guilty of.

Great column on the subject.

The Atomic Bombing of Japan, Reconsidered
By Alan Mosley
Mises.org

January 2, 2019

Russia’s move, in fact, compelled the Japanese to consider unconditional surrender; until then, they were only open to a conditional surrender that left their Emperor Hirohito some dignity and protections from war-crimes trials. Ward concludes that, as in the European theatre, Truman didn’t beat Japan; Stalin did.

Harry Truman never expressed regret publicly over his decision to use the atomic bombs. However, he did order an independent study on the state of the war effort leading up to August of 1945, and the strategic value of the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings. In 1946, the U.S. Bombing Survey published its findings, which concluded as follows: “Based on a detailed investigation of all the facts and supported by the testimony of the surviving Japanese leaders involved, it is the Survey’s opinion that certainly prior to 31 December 1945 and in all probability prior to 1 November 1945, Japan would have surrendered even if the atomic bombs had not been dropped, even if Russia had not entered the war, and even if no invasion had been planned or contemplated.” This is an intensive condemnation of Truman’s decision, seeing as Russia did enter the war, and that plans for an invasion had been developed.

As Timothy P. Carney writes for the Washington Examiner, the fog of war can be a tricky thing. But if we’re forced to side with Truman, or Eisenhower and the other dissenting military leaders, the Eisenhower position isn’t merely valid; it actually aligns better with some fundamental American values. Given all the uncertainty, both at the time and with modern historical revisionism, it’s better to look to principle rather than fortune-telling. One principle that should be near the top of everyone’s list is this: it’s wrong to target civilians with weapons of mass destruction. The deliberate killing of innocent men, women, and children by the hundreds of thousands cannot be justified under any circumstances, much less the ambiguous ones Truman encountered. Whether his decision was motivated by indignation toward Japanese “ pigheadedness” or concern for his troops, Truman’s use of such devastating weapons against non-combatants should not be excused. Americans must strive for complete and honest analysis of the past (and present) conflicts. And if she is to remain true to her own ideals, America must strive for more noble and moral ends—in all conflicts, domestic and foreign—guided by our most cherished first principles, such as the Golden Rule. At the very least, Americans should not try so hard to justify mass murder.

The Atomic Bombing of Japan - LewRockwell LewRockwell.com

yeah truman was a mass murderer who should have been tried like the nuremberg trials.the REAL history we were never taught in our corrupt school system is that japen offered to surrender and our government ignored them.

i see that little truth hurts the feelings of the brainwashed sheep harmonica and markie.this is them after hearing the truth on this.

that's why they surrendered pre- Abomb, correct??
Japan offered to surrender?? !!!!!??hahhahahaha
please link

 

[Unkotare]

Ah, now MacArthur was secretly a Japanese agent? You wanna stick with that one? Might be time to take your condition to the conspiracy forum.

I can link to ACTUAL Government Documents you have a link to an unsubstantiated Newspaper story. Gee I wonder which is accurate.

You’ve repeated your one and only talking point enough old man. Go sit in the corner and eat your jello.

 

[harmonica]

Ah, now MacArthur was secretly a Japanese agent? You wanna stick with that one? Might be time to take your condition to the conspiracy forum.

I can link to ACTUAL Government Documents you have a link to an unsubstantiated Newspaper story. Gee I wonder which is accurate.

You’ve repeated your one and only talking point enough old man. Go sit in the corner and eat your jello.

the Japanese were DYING to surrender
they really wanted to surrender so bad that they finally did it on 15 August

 

[Unkotare]

so the plan is to --------wait?? not use the bombs and ---wait???!!
till when??
out of about 20,000 Japanese on Iwo Jima, only about 300 taken prisoner/etc
they are NOT surrendering
they put up an even tougher defense on Okinawa--with OVER 10,000 American dead
I say again --ten THOUSAND American dead--over FORTY THOUSAND casualties

Neither one of those battles necessarily had to happen at all if the scumbag FDR hadn’t completely ignored the overtures for surrender the general MacArthur and forward it to him before the scum bag and left for Yalta. He glanced at the extensive report MacArthur had sent and dismissed it. Did not even take or mention the offer of surrender at Yalta.

they were not accepting unconditional surrender --plain and simple--can't be denied

The conditions we DID accept when all was said and done were exactly the same as those offered in the peace overtures that the scumbag fdr ignored long before many, many American servicemen died in subsequent battles that might not have had to take place.

No they WERE not ...

Yes they were.

 

[harmonica]

so the plan is to --------wait?? not use the bombs and ---wait???!!
till when??
out of about 20,000 Japanese on Iwo Jima, only about 300 taken prisoner/etc
they are NOT surrendering
they put up an even tougher defense on Okinawa--with OVER 10,000 American dead
I say again --ten THOUSAND American dead--over FORTY THOUSAND casualties

Neither one of those battles necessarily had to happen at all if the scumbag FDR hadn’t completely ignored the overtures for surrender the general MacArthur and forward it to him before the scum bag and left for Yalta. He glanced at the extensive report MacArthur had sent and dismissed it. Did not even take or mention the offer of surrender at Yalta.

they were not accepting unconditional surrender --plain and simple--can't be denied

The conditions we DID accept when all was said and done were exactly the same as those offered in the peace overtures that the scumbag fdr ignored long before many, many American servicemen died in subsequent battles that might not have had to take place.

No they WERE not ...

Yes they were.

no they were not

 

[Unkotare]

Ah, now MacArthur was secretly a Japanese agent? You wanna stick with that one? Might be time to take your condition to the conspiracy forum.

I can link to ACTUAL Government Documents you have a link to an unsubstantiated Newspaper story. Gee I wonder which is accurate.

You’ve repeated your one and only talking point enough old man. Go sit in the corner and eat your jello.

the Japanese were DYING to surrender
they really wanted to surrender so bad that they finally did it on 15 August

The scumbag fdr was so interested in peace that he ignored all possibilities and was happy to have more American servicemen die until the opportunity to incinerate hundreds of thousands of civilians at one shot was ready.

 

[harmonica]

Ah, now MacArthur was secretly a Japanese agent? You wanna stick with that one? Might be time to take your condition to the conspiracy forum.

I can link to ACTUAL Government Documents you have a link to an unsubstantiated Newspaper story. Gee I wonder which is accurate.

You’ve repeated your one and only talking point enough old man. Go sit in the corner and eat your jello.

the Japanese were DYING to surrender
they really wanted to surrender so bad that they finally did it on 15 August

The scumbag fdr was so interested in peace that he ignored all possibilities and was happy to have more American servicemen die until the opportunity to incinerate hundreds of thousands of civilians at one shot was ready.

FDR wanted more Americans to die
???!!!!!!!
''HAPPY''' to have them die
you have lost your mind

 

[Unkotare]

"
MEMORANDUM FOR THE PRESIDENT:

The following information, a sequel to a memorandum dated 13 July ... has been received from Mr. Allen Dulles in Wiesbaden. ...

Jacobsson reports that between 10 and 13 July he had a series of conferences with Yoshimura, a Japanese official attached to the Bank for International Settlements, and Kojiro Kitamura, a director of the Bank, representative of the Yokohama Specie Bank, and former financial attache in Berlin. Yoshimura and Kitamura claim to be acting in consultation with the Japanese Minister to Switzerland, Shunichi Kase, and Brigadier General Kiyotomi Okamoto, former Japanese military attache in Bern, who now is believed to be chief of Japanese Intelligence in Europe. Yoshimura and Kitamura claim further that Kase and Okamoto have direct and secret means of communicating with the Japanese Chief of Staff. Yosbimura also claims that the peace group which he represents includes General Ushijiro Umezu, Army Chief of Staff;16 Admiral Mitsumasa Yonai, Minister of Navy; and Shigenori Togo, Foreign Minister.

Yoshimura and Kitamura appeared to Jacobsson no longer to question the principle of unconditional surrender, though at one point they asked whether unconditional military and naval surrender might not be sufficient. On his own initiative Jacobsson replied that such a proposal would not be acceptable to the Allies but would be considered merely a quibble.17Both Japanese officials raised the question of maintaining Japanese territorial integrity, but they apparently did not mean to include Manchukuo, Korea or Formosa.

Throughout discussions with Jacobsson, the Japanese officials stressed only two points: (a) the preservation of the Emperor, and (b) the possibility of returning to the constitution promulgated in 1889. Kitamura prepared and presented to Jacobsson a memorandum asking him to sound out Mr. Dulles' opinion on the two points.

(Mr. Dulles feels that these two Japanese are insisting on the retention of the Emperor because they feel that he alone can take effective action with respect to surrender and that some hope of survival must be held out to him in order to gain his support for unconditional surrender.)

Later Yoshimura and Kitamura prepared a second memorandum in which they asked how, if Tokyo were ready to proceed, conversations could be arranged with Allied representatives and what form of authorization would be required."

.

 

[Unkotare]

Ah, now MacArthur was secretly a Japanese agent? You wanna stick with that one? Might be time to take your condition to the conspiracy forum.

I can link to ACTUAL Government Documents you have a link to an unsubstantiated Newspaper story. Gee I wonder which is accurate.

You’ve repeated your one and only talking point enough old man. Go sit in the corner and eat your jello.

the Japanese were DYING to surrender
they really wanted to surrender so bad that they finally did it on 15 August

The scumbag fdr was so interested in peace that he ignored all possibilities and was happy to have more American servicemen die until the opportunity to incinerate hundreds of thousands of civilians at one shot was ready.

FDR wanted more Americans to die
???!!!!!!!
''HAPPY''' to have them die
you have lost your mind

Life, liberty, equality and the US Constitution meant nothing to that scumbag. He was a model democrat.

 

[Markle]

Yes they did. No fewer than five times. Offering conditions that turned out to be the exact ones that we excepted from them when all was said and done anyway.

Not at all true.

Exactly true

Prove it. Show your reliable source and link. Their CONDITIONS until after the bomb on Nagasaki were that the Emperor (God) remained in power, controlled the rebuilding and that we not occupy Japan.

Try again!

 

[harmonica]

I can link to ACTUAL Government Documents you have a link to an unsubstantiated Newspaper story. Gee I wonder which is accurate.

You’ve repeated your one and only talking point enough old man. Go sit in the corner and eat your jello.

the Japanese were DYING to surrender
they really wanted to surrender so bad that they finally did it on 15 August

The scumbag fdr was so interested in peace that he ignored all possibilities and was happy to have more American servicemen die until the opportunity to incinerate hundreds of thousands of civilians at one shot was ready.

FDR wanted more Americans to die
???!!!!!!!
''HAPPY''' to have them die
you have lost your mind

Life, liberty, equality and the US Constitution meant nothing to that scumbag. He was a model democrat.

sounds so much like hitler/Pol Pot/Idi Amin/etc

 

[harmonica]

....plain and simple--the A bombs shocked the Emperor to cast the deciding vote for surrender--per HIS quote
...if the A bombs were not dropped, there is no proof/guarantee/etc that they would've surrendered '''soon enough'''

 

[Unkotare]

"
MEMORANDUM FOR THE PRESIDENT:

* * *

Immediately following is a summary of a report by Per Jacobsson, a Swedish national and economic adviser to the Bank for International Settlements, transmitted to Mr. Dulles through an intermediary:

The Japanese Chief of Staff has acknowledged without comment a long cable which Brigadier General Kiyotomi Okamoto sent from Switzerland on 19 July. Okamoto's telegram reportedly stated that Japan has lost the war and must promptly accept the consequences. ...

The Japanese Foreign Minister has also acknowledged a detailed report from Shunichi Kase, Japanese Minister in Bern. Kase's report, sent on or about 21 July, included (a) Mr. Grew's statement of 10 July, (b) a memorandum from Kojiro Kitamura, director of the Bank for International Settlements and former financial attache in Berlin, who has been active in the current Japanese approaches to Mr. Dulles, and (c) a statement of Kase's own position. The Foreign Minister's reply to Kase's message contained the following query: "Is that all you have to say?" Kase interprets this query as an invitation to continue peace approaches.

The recent tripartite ultimatum to Japan21 has been the chief topic of discussion among Japanese groups in Switzerland. Their first reaction, on the basis of excerpts published in the Swiss press, was that (a) the proclamation showed a lack of understanding of Japanese character, (b) the document should have not been framed on a basis of "take it or leave it," (c) the inclusion of China as a signatory represented an "added element of humiliation," and (d) the document should have been sent through private channels rather than publicly. After receiving the full English text through Jacobsson, and after further study, the attitude of the group changed, and the proclamation was accepted as an "astute document which left a possible way out." The group was particularly impressed by "unconditional surrender" in connection with the "Japanese armed forces" and to the reference to revival and strengthening of democratic tendencies among the Japanese people. As a result, a telegram stressing these points was to be sent to Tokyo on 30 July.

The following is a summary of a memorandum to Mr. Dulles from the Japanese group in contact with Per Jacobsson. Jacobsson transmitted this memo along with his own report summarized above.

The Japanese group emphasizes that it is hoping for some decision within a week unless "resistance is too great." The Allies should not take "too seriously" what was said over the Tokyo radio about the tripartite proclamation.22 This radio comment was merely "propaganda to maintain morale in Japan." The real reply will be given through some "official channel," possibly by Minister Kase or General Okamoto, if an official Government reply is not made over the Tokyo radio.

Mr. Dulles also has been informed, by a German authority on the Far East living in Switzerland who is one of his regular contacts, that Yosikazu23 Fujimura, a Japanese Navy representative in Bern, has sent seven long cables to his superiors in Tokyo during the past two months urging immediate cessation of hostilities. His superiors cabled in reply that the Japanese Navy no longer is able to "act alone," and instructed Fujimura not to take the initiative without orders from Tokyo, but to maintain his "most valuable contacts.""

.

 

[Unkotare]

Ah, now MacArthur was secretly a Japanese agent? You wanna stick with that one? Might be time to take your condition to the conspiracy forum.

I can link to ACTUAL Government Documents you have a link to an unsubstantiated Newspaper story. Gee I wonder which is accurate.

You’ve repeated your one and only talking point enough old man. Go sit in the corner and eat your jello.

the Japanese were DYING to surrender
they really wanted to surrender so bad that they finally did it on 15 August

The scumbag fdr was so interested in peace that he ignored all possibilities and was happy to have more American servicemen die until the opportunity to incinerate hundreds of thousands of civilians at one shot was ready.

.

 

[Markle]

Too many fallacies in your post, for me to get to them all.

So, that's your cowardly way of saying you've got nothing! Thank you!

 

[Markle]

http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/policy/1945/1945-03-18a.html

Who knew the Vatican was a participant in WW-II.