The U.S. Military Welfare Empire

[KnobbyWalsh]

This may touch some nerves. But thats ok. I think we have created a Welfare Empire with the U.S. Military. Hear me out.

Some have said this about the military internally. How someone can sign on at age 18, be a non-combat employee- like a cook, dentist, gym attendant, human resources employee. I know a female officer (LT) at the Air Force base here. Her job is to do presentations to new families about the schools, recreation and nightlife of Charleston. Never deployed. Made an entire career in uniform of giving lifestyle presentations to newly located families. And thats fine, its honest, noble work. But, some have said joining at 18, doing 20 years in a non-combat role, then "retiring" at age 38 with lifetime pay and benefits is just...well, too sweet a deal. Not me. Im ok with that.

What Im talking about is external welfare. You know, the kind right wingers hate. The "get something for nothing" kind. And our military is providing it. How?

We have bases all over the world. We intervene in so many conflicts. How many nations dont spend much on military...because they depend on the assumption that the US will save their asses? Canada for example. They have a fine military, but far smaller than ours. They dont need a big one. We're next door. So, they free up far more of their tax money for domestic services.

Or how about South Korea? How much money do we the taxpayers waste on that area? Japan, by law, couldnt have a big military. We will protect them. Same with Australia. And Mexico. And France. And England. And Germany. And Norway. And Sweden. And Greenland. And.........well, lets just assume that outside of China, Russia, the Axis of Evil (well, Saudi Arabia we'll protect obviously) that we'll step into just about any major conflict outside of Africa.


So I gotta ask, right wingers espsecially: Why are you so OK with foreign people getting "something for nothing", in this case military protection, off your tax dollar, but are so against your fellow countrymen getting "something for nothing"??? I mean, if you are gonna have your tax money spent giving someone something for nothing, why aren't you more angry that foreigners are getting it than your own neighbors?

Why not pull all those troops out of England, Germany, France, Australia, South Korea, etc, etc??

Some say it would make it harder to fight a foreign war without those foward bases. Well, thats a GOOD thing. Our foreign wars haven't done shit but nearly bankrupt us. Maybe that would be a good thing, to make it very hard to send our troops to some shithole to fight. Maybe then, we'd only go to war when absolutely necessary.

BUT....that would make life hard for defense contractors. And lots of GOP candidates depend heavily on lobbyist money from those folks.

So, I guess the Military Welfare Empire will continue. And billions of foreigners will keep getting free military protection from us, so they can have more of their own money stay in-country for their own people, since our people will pay for their protection........or in other words, "getting something for nothing".

You should not be so quick to insult someone's ability to think critically when you exhibit a decided lack of the trait yourself.

The military does none of this. In case you missed it, everything you listed and talked about in your little false premise is based upon the fact that it is the elected civilian politicians that have done this. The military is subjugated to the civilian government. But you knew that, right?

Learn to form you premise and petty little diatribes BEFORE you actually post them, okay sport?

"The military is subjugated to the civilian government." Sleep through your World History classes much? Frightfully naive.

 

[Two Thumbs]

This may touch some nerves. But thats ok. I think we have created a Welfare Empire with the U.S. Military. Hear me out.

Some have said this about the military internally. How someone can sign on at age 18, be a non-combat employee- like a cook, dentist, gym attendant, human resources employee. I know a female officer (LT) at the Air Force base here. Her job is to do presentations to new families about the schools, recreation and nightlife of Charleston. Never deployed. Made an entire career in uniform of giving lifestyle presentations to newly located families. And thats fine, its honest, noble work. But, some have said joining at 18, doing 20 years in a non-combat role, then "retiring" at age 38 with lifetime pay and benefits is just...well, too sweet a deal. Not me. Im ok with that.

What Im talking about is external welfare. You know, the kind right wingers hate. The "get something for nothing" kind. And our military is providing it. How?

We have bases all over the world. We intervene in so many conflicts. How many nations dont spend much on military...because they depend on the assumption that the US will save their asses? Canada for example. They have a fine military, but far smaller than ours. They dont need a big one. We're next door. So, they free up far more of their tax money for domestic services.

Or how about South Korea? How much money do we the taxpayers waste on that area? Japan, by law, couldnt have a big military. We will protect them. Same with Australia. And Mexico. And France. And England. And Germany. And Norway. And Sweden. And Greenland. And.........well, lets just assume that outside of China, Russia, the Axis of Evil (well, Saudi Arabia we'll protect obviously) that we'll step into just about any major conflict outside of Africa.


So I gotta ask, right wingers espsecially: Why are you so OK with foreign people getting "something for nothing", in this case military protection, off your tax dollar, but are so against your fellow countrymen getting "something for nothing"??? I mean, if you are gonna have your tax money spent giving someone something for nothing, why aren't you more angry that foreigners are getting it than your own neighbors?

Why not pull all those troops out of England, Germany, France, Australia, South Korea, etc, etc??

Some say it would make it harder to fight a foreign war without those foward bases. Well, thats a GOOD thing. Our foreign wars haven't done shit but nearly bankrupt us. Maybe that would be a good thing, to make it very hard to send our troops to some shithole to fight. Maybe then, we'd only go to war when absolutely necessary.

BUT....that would make life hard for defense contractors. And lots of GOP candidates depend heavily on lobbyist money from those folks.

So, I guess the Military Welfare Empire will continue. And billions of foreigners will keep getting free military protection from us, so they can have more of their own money stay in-country for their own people, since our people will pay for their protection........or in other words, "getting something for nothing".

I get it, you think if the left gets to cut defense spending they will close foreign bases.

Which is something they should do, but they won't, they will fuck the Vet over again, just like clinton did.

So while you are right, your leaders don't give a fuck.

 

[tjvh]

The US Government doesn't run the Military. The Military Industrial Complex of Multinational Corporations as well as a "Technological Elite" run the military.

Obama and Panetta have already stated the the US Military serves the UN not the US so get that idea out of your head.

All Americans get to do is pay for it all.

Years ago (late 90's), about ten years after I exited the Military I was on a road trip. I stopped at a highway rest stop and it was full of an ARMY convoy of vehicles. I managed to say hello to one of the soldiers there, and we struck up a short conversation, I asked how's everything going these days, and he said it wasn't so great. He said he was sure they were on the verge of trading in their camo helmets for light blue ones with UN stamped on the sides. And I completely understood what he meant.

 

[LogikAndReazon]

Our military should be disbanded and all worldwide bases closed.............

All the savings can go to Head Start, for the benefit of the people...........lol

 

[Two Thumbs]

The US Government doesn't run the Military. The Military Industrial Complex of Multinational Corporations as well as a "Technological Elite" run the military.

Obama and Panetta have already stated the the US Military serves the UN not the US so get that idea out of your head.

All Americans get to do is pay for it all.

Years ago (late 90's), about ten years after I exited the Military I was on a road trip. I stopped at a highway rest stop and it was full of an ARMY convoy of vehicles. I managed to say hello to one of the soldiers there, and we struck up a short conversation, I asked how's everything going these days, and he said it wasn't so great. He said he was sure they were on the verge of trading in their camo helmets for light blue ones with UN stamped on the sides. And I completely understood what he meant.

the US military being at the beck and call of the UN has been long in its coming.

Thanks to the new world order types, it will just get worse.

 

[Redfish]

So much bullshit in this thread. I spent my entire working career in and around the "military industrial complex" so I know a lot about it.

But I have to go out for a while, will be back later to correct the many misstatements that I am sure will fill this thread.

 

[Dutch]

So much bullshit in this thread. I spent my entire working career in and around the "military industrial complex" so I know a lot about it.

But I have to go out for a while, will be back later to correct the many misstatements that I am sure will fill this thread.

Playing Modern Warfare on Playstation doesn't count as being around the military industrial complex

 

[g5000]

The essence of the OP is correct.

Money is fungible. If we spend money defending South Korea with our military presence, that saves a lot of defense spending money for South Korea which they in turn use for other purposes, including building infrastructure to support Samsung and Kia and Hyundai and their country's massive internet connectivity.

Then someone bitches about the US government not spending enough to increas our domestic internet connectivity...

 

[g5000]

There is no way to make a "lifetime career" out of the military and avoid deployment.

There are people, though, who never get near the pointy end of the spear in 20 years. It does seem off-balance that a soldier who did four or five combat tours in Iraq and/or Afghanistan, but only served for four to six years, gets nothing while a 20 year vet who never went near the front gets a lifetime benefit.

I think a 401k option for active duty military who serve less than 20 years is something reasonable to consider.

 

[OKTexas]

This may touch some nerves. But thats ok. I think we have created a Welfare Empire with the U.S. Military. Hear me out.

Some have said this about the military internally. How someone can sign on at age 18, be a non-combat employee- like a cook, dentist, gym attendant, human resources employee. I know a female officer (LT) at the Air Force base here. Her job is to do presentations to new families about the schools, recreation and nightlife of Charleston. Never deployed. Made an entire career in uniform of giving lifestyle presentations to newly located families. And thats fine, its honest, noble work. But, some have said joining at 18, doing 20 years in a non-combat role, then "retiring" at age 38 with lifetime pay and benefits is just...well, too sweet a deal. Not me. Im ok with that.

What Im talking about is external welfare. You know, the kind right wingers hate. The "get something for nothing" kind. And our military is providing it. How?

We have bases all over the world. We intervene in so many conflicts. How many nations dont spend much on military...because they depend on the assumption that the US will save their asses? Canada for example. They have a fine military, but far smaller than ours. They dont need a big one. We're next door. So, they free up far more of their tax money for domestic services.

Or how about South Korea? How much money do we the taxpayers waste on that area? Japan, by law, couldnt have a big military. We will protect them. Same with Australia. And Mexico. And France. And England. And Germany. And Norway. And Sweden. And Greenland. And.........well, lets just assume that outside of China, Russia, the Axis of Evil (well, Saudi Arabia we'll protect obviously) that we'll step into just about any major conflict outside of Africa.


So I gotta ask, right wingers espsecially: Why are you so OK with foreign people getting "something for nothing", in this case military protection, off your tax dollar, but are so against your fellow countrymen getting "something for nothing"??? I mean, if you are gonna have your tax money spent giving someone something for nothing, why aren't you more angry that foreigners are getting it than your own neighbors?

Why not pull all those troops out of England, Germany, France, Australia, South Korea, etc, etc??

Some say it would make it harder to fight a foreign war without those foward bases. Well, thats a GOOD thing. Our foreign wars haven't done shit but nearly bankrupt us. Maybe that would be a good thing, to make it very hard to send our troops to some shithole to fight. Maybe then, we'd only go to war when absolutely necessary.

BUT....that would make life hard for defense contractors. And lots of GOP candidates depend heavily on lobbyist money from those folks.

So, I guess the Military Welfare Empire will continue. And billions of foreigners will keep getting free military protection from us, so they can have more of their own money stay in-country for their own people, since our people will pay for their protection........or in other words, "getting something for nothing".

Did you mom drop you on your little head one too many times? Of course there could be no logical reason that countries with populations less than 10% of ours would not be spending equal amounts on their military as us. They just have to be lazy little free loaders depending on us, even though every one of the countries you mentioned have provided personnel and equipment in vrtually every conflict we've been involved in. But enjoy life in fantasy land if that's were you get your comfort.

 

[Redfish]

OK, I'm back. These kinds of threads are usually started by some leftwinger who thinks that by attacking military spending, he can score points against republicans and/or conservatives.

The truth is that there is a tremendous waste of money in DOD. Most comes from pork and a lots comes from the fact that the govt never does anything efficiently.

To claim that military spending is only done by the GOP or republicans is to deny the truth. The states with the biggest military expenditures ---- California, New York, Massachusetts, New Jersey, Virginia, Texas, are certainly not all run or represented in DC by conservatives or republicans. So that is fail #1 for the OP.

But what can we do to reduce military spending without making us vulnerable and weak?

1. eliminate all overseas bases unless the host country pays the entire bill. If they want us there to protect them, then they should pay for the protection 100%
2. cut the number of admirals and generals by 50%----no one will notice
3. eliminate duplicate missions and roles. We don't need an air force in the Army, Navy, Marines, and Coast Guard----------one air force, one army, one navy, etc
4. allow more competition between defence contractors, encourage small businesses to build for the military by eliminating most of the stupid unnecessary certifications and testing----why does a coffee pot need to be tested for EMP and nuclear blast?
5. close or consolidate bases in the US. Most exist due to some senator's pork bill to send money to his state. Close half of them.
6. cut the civilian DOD staff by 30%---no one will notice.

 

[Redfish]

So much bullshit in this thread. I spent my entire working career in and around the "military industrial complex" so I know a lot about it.

But I have to go out for a while, will be back later to correct the many misstatements that I am sure will fill this thread.

Playing Modern Warfare on Playstation doesn't count as being around the military industrial complex

don't try to get cute, sonny. over 30 years working for defence contractors, and 10 years working as a manufacturer's rep for defense contractors in the international market. I do know what I am talking about on this topic

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Flash! Progressives loath the US military!

 

[9thIDdoc]

This may touch some nerves. But thats ok. I think we have created a Welfare Empire with the U.S. Military. Hear me out.

Some have said this about the military internally. How someone can sign on at age 18, be a non-combat employee- like a cook, dentist, gym attendant, human resources employee. I know a female officer (LT) at the Air Force base here. Her job is to do presentations to new families about the schools, recreation and nightlife of Charleston. Never deployed. Made an entire career in uniform of giving lifestyle presentations to newly located families. And thats fine, its honest, noble work. But, some have said joining at 18, doing 20 years in a non-combat role, then "retiring" at age 38 with lifetime pay and benefits is just...well, too sweet a deal. Not me. Im ok with that.

What Im talking about is external welfare. You know, the kind right wingers hate. The "get something for nothing" kind. And our military is providing it. How?

We have bases all over the world. We intervene in so many conflicts. How many nations dont spend much on military...because they depend on the assumption that the US will save their asses? Canada for example. They have a fine military, but far smaller than ours. They dont need a big one. We're next door. So, they free up far more of their tax money for domestic services.

Or how about South Korea? How much money do we the taxpayers waste on that area? Japan, by law, couldnt have a big military. We will protect them. Same with Australia. And Mexico. And France. And England. And Germany. And Norway. And Sweden. And Greenland. And.........well, lets just assume that outside of China, Russia, the Axis of Evil (well, Saudi Arabia we'll protect obviously) that we'll step into just about any major conflict outside of Africa.


So I gotta ask, right wingers espsecially: Why are you so OK with foreign people getting "something for nothing", in this case military protection, off your tax dollar, but are so against your fellow countrymen getting "something for nothing"??? I mean, if you are gonna have your tax money spent giving someone something for nothing, why aren't you more angry that foreigners are getting it than your own neighbors?

Why not pull all those troops out of England, Germany, France, Australia, South Korea, etc, etc??

Some say it would make it harder to fight a foreign war without those foward bases. Well, thats a GOOD thing. Our foreign wars haven't done shit but nearly bankrupt us. Maybe that would be a good thing, to make it very hard to send our troops to some shithole to fight. Maybe then, we'd only go to war when absolutely necessary.

BUT....that would make life hard for defense contractors. And lots of GOP candidates depend heavily on lobbyist money from those folks.

So, I guess the Military Welfare Empire will continue. And billions of foreigners will keep getting free military protection from us, so they can have more of their own money stay in-country for their own people, since our people will pay for their protection........or in other words, "getting something for nothing".

That sure did work out well for the South Vietnamese didn't it?

 

[Borillar]

One of the best things we did was, when the Filipinos complained about the U.S. bases there, we pulled out lock, stock, & barrel. We should do more of that, IMO.

Mt. Pinatubo erupting pretty much made staying at Clark AFB and Subic Bay untenable. I have heard that the Filipinos want us back to keep the Chinese in check though.

There are lots of foreign bases that could be closed though. We don't really need to maintain a global military empire.

 

[Wyatt earp]

OK, I'm back. These kinds of threads are usually started by some leftwinger who thinks that by attacking military spending, he can score points against republicans and/or conservatives.

The truth is that there is a tremendous waste of money in DOD. Most comes from pork and a lots comes from the fact that the govt never does anything efficiently.

To claim that military spending is only done by the GOP or republicans is to deny the truth. The states with the biggest military expenditures ---- California, New York, Massachusetts, New Jersey, Virginia, Texas, are certainly not all run or represented in DC by conservatives or republicans. So that is fail #1 for the OP.

But what can we do to reduce military spending without making us vulnerable and weak?

1. eliminate all overseas bases unless the host country pays the entire bill. If they want us there to protect them, then they should pay for the protection 100%
2. cut the number of admirals and generals by 50%----no one will notice
3. eliminate duplicate missions and roles. We don't need an air force in the Army, Navy, Marines, and Coast Guard----------one air force, one army, one navy, etc
4. allow more competition between defence contractors, encourage small businesses to build for the military by eliminating most of the stupid unnecessary certifications and testing----why does a coffee pot need to be tested for EMP and nuclear blast?
5. close or consolidate bases in the US. Most exist due to some senator's pork bill to send money to his state. Close half of them.
6. cut the civilian DOD staff by 30%---no one will notice.

I have no problem with a big military, in fact I love our military the only tax money well spent. but like I pointed out I am sick of these countries free loading off of us and the left keep saying, "how come we cant have social programs
like them" well how could we? were the ones protecting the cheap skates. and china became an economic super power relying on the U.S. tax payer money defending its intrest. its about time for the world to pay us a defense fee, if you ask me.

 

[SFC Ollie]

First, no one in the Military has ever stayed in one place for 20 years and was a LT after 20 years.....

Now, having served 22 years on active duty, we have closed about 75% or better of all the bases we had in Germany. The major base left is Landstuhl hospital and the supporting area. Landstuhl has saved many lives from Iraq and Afghanistan. The Units left in Germany maintain a few training areas and support the troops maintaining them and the hospital. It's nice to have big assesd training areas outside the country where we can use real explosives and all those good things.......

If we were to pull our troops out of South Korea then there would be no South Korea within a month. that would then put Japan in jeopardy and destroy our relations with most of our allies as they would then see that we were no longer trustworthy.

I have deployed with soldiers from 4 other countries and worked with soldiers from at least 7..... They pull their share.

Can we cut defense spending? Sure, but not the way people think. Is there fraud and abuse? Yep.

Put the privates back in the supply depots and the mess halls. You just saved about a billion a year right there.

But what do we do instead? My retirement pay went up by $17 a month this year. And my cost for a prescription through the military healthcare went from $25 to $43...... And it wasn't right or left but both....