Zone1 The Uber files show capitalism at its worse

[Captain Caveman]

To stop consumers getting ripped off. Thats how it should work.

Ok, you've puzzled me. You've said the taxi business is capitalism, but the prices are set by councils, so that's not capitalism. And you've said that's to stop consumers getting ripped off. So you've contradicted yourself. Do you want to start again?

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Ok, you've puzzled me. You've said the taxi business is capitalism, but the prices are set by councils, so that's not capitalism. And you've said that's to stop consumers getting ripped off. So you've contradicted yourself. Do you want to start again?

Who do the cabbies work for ? Themselves or independant owners. What would you describe that as ?

 

[Captain Caveman]

Who do the cabbies work for ? Themselves or independent owners. What would you describe that as ?

The Uber drivers were originally self employed, but they took Uber to court and won. So Uber drivers are now employees. But Uber can't set the rate because it's capped by the councils.

If the cabbies weren't capped and thus set their own rates, it's full blown capitalism with a hint of regulation on fire extinguishers, first aid kits etc.., and you as a customer chooses who to use.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Corporations are now bigger and more powerful than countries. In the UK Starbucks regularly open stores without obtaining planning permission. They then apply retrospectively knowing that they have more monry than the local council if it gets bogged down in the courts.

My favourite story is the death of the Wrexham and Shropshire Railway.
They set up a service connecting Wrexham to Lonon. It was great. Efficient and clean and brought a lot of local jobs.
Their big rival was Virgin Trains who ran a different service.

Virgin halved their prices overnight. After a year the new sevice folded. They could not compete with the prices and their money ran out. The day after Virgin put their prices back up again.

That is unregulatd capitalism. Its not about baking a better cake. Its about the applicatiion of financial power.

That is the uber model.

 

[Papageorgio]

I havent said that. There are two parties to this sort of corruption. Govt is one of them, capitalism is the other.

Why do you think corps spend so much on lobbyists ? they are holding back civilisation.

The government allows business to lobby, not the businesses fault that they do what is within the law. Does the government allow you to take deductions on your taxes? Do you take the deductions the laws allow? It is incumbent on the government to make the laws that stop undue influence, not businesses. Congress could make laws to stop lobbying, they won't because it doesn't benefit government or more importantly politicians on the take. Obama promised to take care of that and did not.

Capitalism is a concept, not an entity, so capitalism is not corrupt, government can be corrupt and well as a business can be corrupt but not capitalism, that is just plain stupid.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

The Uber drivers were originally self employed, but they took Uber to court and won. So Uber drivers are now employees. But Uber can't set the rate because it's capped by the councils.

If the cabbies weren't capped and thus set their own rates, it's full blown capitalism with a hint of regulation on fire extinguishers, first aid kits etc.., and you as a customer chooses who to use.

Its more than that. Its vetting drivers so that they dont attack the passengers as ell.

But I digress. I havent said that Uber arent capitalists. Far from it. I am saying that they are very much capitalists who use their financial muscle to corrupt politicians. The consumer pays for this in the end.

A bit like when Stagecoach ran free busses to undercut the regular services. The free busses ended the day after the local services wnt bust.

 

[MarathonMike]

Uber broke laws, duped police and secretly lobbied governments, leak reveals

124,000 documents expose inner workings behind US tech firm’s rise as a global empire responsible for 19m journeys a day

www.theguardian.com

I think that there is a lot more to come out of this and many of our leading politicians will be implicated.

But I dont suppose tht Uber is an outlier. There are other corporations who trample over local laws and use corrupt politicians in order to make more money.

Should corporations be limited in size ao that they are not a threat to the general welfare ?

Your subject should be mega-corporations which is a small subset of "Capitalism". You are using the misdeeds of a mega-corporation to smear Capitalism in general. Put the broad brush away and be specific.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Crony capitalism is socialism, not capitalism. Capitalism is free markets, not "corporations."

Sorry, but that is just sort of dumb.

Corporations are the expected product of Capitalism.

The whole point of Capitalism is to make a profit, and corporations can make more profit than small companies.

 

[kaz]

What is ?

Apparently you aren't aware of American anti-trust laws. Your scenario was directly anti-trust. It was already illegal in the United States, so you made no point

 

[kaz]

Sorry, but that is just sort of dumb.

Corporations are the expected product of Capitalism.

The whole point of Capitalism is to make a profit, and corporations can make more profit than small companies.

I do this for a living, you don't know shit about economics. I'll consider your stupid crap for what it's worth. {flush}. There we go

 

[Harpy Eagle]

I do this for a living and you're a pompous racist. I'll consider your stupid crap for what it's worth. {flush}. There we go

So, what you are saying is that you suck at you job.

Gotcha

 

[kaz]

So, what you are saying is that you suck at you job.

Gotcha

Wow, that was like the lamest, most obvious insult you could come up with, huh?

Yeah, I suck at my job because a guy who loves the left but pretends to be in the middle on the internet told me so. Wow, how do you get your head through doorways?

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Wow, that was like the lamest, most obvious insult you could come up with, huh?

Yeah, I suck at my job because a guy who loves the left but pretends to be in the middle told me so. Wow, how do you get your head through doorways?

No, you suck at your job because you think that corporations are not examples of capitalism, and your job someone is related to knowing some basic information about capitalism, which you clearly lack.

 

[kaz]

No, you suck at your job because you think that corporations are not examples of capitalism

This makes no sense. Capitalism is an economic system. Corporations are a legal construct. Your sentence makes zero sense. How would a corporation be an "example" of capitalism? Corporations are entities in either a capitalist or socialist system. What you have here is a non-sequitur

, and your job someone is related to knowing some basic information about capitalism, which you clearly lack.

Oh, Florida Golf boy who doesn't know any economics is grading me, LOL

 

[Tommy Tainant]

This makes no sense. Capitalism is an economic system. Corporations are a legal construct. Your sentence makes zero sense. How would a corporation be an "example" of capitalism? Corporations are entities in either a capitalist or socialist system. What you have here is a non-sequitur



Oh, Florida Golf boy who doesn't know any economics is grading me, LOL

So corporations arent capitalism ?
Thats not a credible stance.

 

[kaz]

So corporations arent capitalism ?
Thats not a credible stance.

Corporations exist in both capitalism and socialism. Just like there are people in both systems. There are producers, consumers, employers and employees in both systems.

Do you seriously not grasp that? Corporations are not capitalism, but there are corporations IN capitalist systems.

You really don't understand the difference? If you still don't, I don't think I can help you, you aren't getting it

 

[Harpy Eagle]

This makes no sense. Capitalism is an economic system. Corporations are a legal construct. Your sentence makes zero sense. How would a corporation be an "example" of capitalism? Corporations are entities in either a capitalist or socialist system. What you have here is a non-sequitur



Oh, Florida Golf boy who doesn't know any economics is grading me, LOL

Yes, I am grading you and you are failing.

The corporations were created via capitalism, it is the natural growth of Capitalism.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Corporations exist in both capitalism and socialism. Just like there are people in both systems. There are producers, consumers, employers and employees in both systems.

Do you seriously not grasp that? Corporations are not capitalism, but there are corporations IN capitalist systems.

You really don't understand the difference? If you still don't, I don't think I can help you, you aren't getting it

Capitalism doesnt need you to defend it.
Easier to just admit that there are bad people, motivated by greed, who need to be reined in.
That is a role of government because the corporations wont do it.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Uber broke laws, duped police and secretly lobbied governments, leak reveals

124,000 documents expose inner workings behind US tech firm’s rise as a global empire responsible for 19m journeys a day

www.theguardian.com

I think that there is a lot more to come out of this and many of our leading politicians will be implicated.

But I dont suppose tht Uber is an outlier. There are other corporations who trample over local laws and use corrupt politicians in order to make more money.

Should corporations be limited in size ao that they are not a threat to the general welfare ?

No.

Corporations, as we know them, should not exist.

It is fine for a group of people to pool their money together, in a stock buying arrangement, so they can do business on a large scale. That goes wrong when those individual who own the company together are absolved from responsibility for what that company does.

Your company, you take the consequences when it goes wrong, whether it commits a tort or a crime.

 

[kaz]

Yes, I am grading you and you are failing.

I'd say ouch, but I'm laughing too hard. You don't know shit about economics

The corporations were created via capitalism, it is the natural growth of Capitalism.

Corporations are created by government. Government provides limited liability, which only they can do. There is nothing capitalist about for example the post office. Corporations can operate in different economic systems, depends how they are managed. Socialist corporations are controlled by government.

I worked on Wall Street and have an MBA in finance from a top five finance program. You have no experience or education. Since you are more interested in broadcasting your ignorance than learning, I am not interested in discussing this with you any more, you are a waste of time