The Value of Free Speech

[TemplarKormac]

You said that the link to the website was clear evidence. Do I need to go back and find it for you?

Perhaps you should learn to be more observant.

So what are you trying to prove exactly? If you're pleading the 5th, its basically confession of guilt. Anywho, if you want to continue making a futile case:

Emails show IRS official Lerner involved in Tea Party screening | Fox News

Lois Lerner emails: Is the IRS scandal back?

You think I am having a discussion with you, don't you? Idiot. I'm talking to QW.

You are not relevant. You need to be out interviewing for jobs.

You need to acknowledge the truth, LL. All you can do is focus on something irrelevant. You are speaking to me and only me. It shows, the fact you won't face me shows you have zero argument. You never answered my question either. How are you "defending" my rights? I mean seriously, you run your mouth on here so much, you can't answer a simple question.

Oh, that's right, you have no answers. You're so full of yourself, you think people should take your comments at face value without doing some digging around. Really, you're pathetic. You accuse me of living in a fantasy with this forum persona, but you're the one deluding himself into thinking he's defending freedom. This forum persona does not leave the forum. You go on living life thinking you are some sort of "Freedom's Champion." If I got paid for each time I whipped your hindsides and showed you up in a debate, I wouldn't need a fucking job.

If you're wrong, I'll point it out. When you say stupid stuff, it's fair game to be rebutted. Either you respond to me, acknowledge me, or ignore me. Your choice.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Perhaps you should learn to be more observant.

You think I am having a discussion with you, don't you? Idiot. I'm talking to QW.

You are not relevant. You need to be out interviewing for jobs.

You need to acknowledge the truth, LL. All you can do is focus on something irrelevant. You are speaking to me and only me. It shows, the fact you won't face me shows you have zero argument. You never answered my question either. How are you "defending" my rights? I mean seriously, you run your mouth on here so much, you can't answer a simple question.

Oh, that's right, you have no answers. You're so full of yourself, you think people should take your comments at face value without doing some digging around. Really, you're pathetic. If I got paid for each time I whipped your hindsides in a debate, I wouldn't need a fucking job.

If you're wrong, I'll point it out. When you say stupid stuff, it's fair game to be rebutted. Either you respond to me, acknowledge me, or ignore me. Your choice.

You are mistaking my general disdain for you and your lameness for some kind of fear. You have never debated here....nevermind whipped anyone at it.

What I said was that liberals will be there to protect your right to free speech if it is ever threatened. You took that to mean some personal promise that I made to you regarding your rights. That is because you are at once self involved and unaware of the world around you. You are borderline retarded and my only interest in dealing with you is to have fun at your expense.

I am pretty sure that I have been very consistent with tht message since the first few times we interacted. You are not capable of carrying your end of any serious discussion. Do you understand?

Now...you ought to get some shut eye so you can get up bright and early pounding tht pavement. You need a job, son. Go get em'.

 

[TemplarKormac]

You think I am having a discussion with you, don't you? Idiot. I'm talking to QW.

You are not relevant. You need to be out interviewing for jobs.

You need to acknowledge the truth, LL. All you can do is focus on something irrelevant. You are speaking to me and only me. It shows, the fact you won't face me shows you have zero argument. You never answered my question either. How are you "defending" my rights? I mean seriously, you run your mouth on here so much, you can't answer a simple question.

Oh, that's right, you have no answers. You're so full of yourself, you think people should take your comments at face value without doing some digging around. Really, you're pathetic. If I got paid for each time I whipped your hindsides in a debate, I wouldn't need a fucking job.

If you're wrong, I'll point it out. When you say stupid stuff, it's fair game to be rebutted. Either you respond to me, acknowledge me, or ignore me. Your choice.

You are mistaking my general disdain for you and your lameness for some kind of fear. You have never debated here....nevermind whipped anyone at it.

What I said was that liberals will be there to protect your right to free speech if it is ever threatened. You took that to mean some personal promise that I made to you regarding your rights. That is because you are at once self involved and unaware of the world around you. You are borderline retarded and my only interest in dealing with you is to have fun at your expense.

I am pretty sure that I have been very consistent with tht message since the first few times we interacted. You are not capable of carrying your end of any serious discussion. Do you understand?

Now...you ought to get some shut eye so you can get up bright and early pounding tht pavement. You need a job, son. Go get em'.

Oh brother. Run away like a coward. If you have to explain why you won't or can't debate me, you lose. The only message you got across is that "TemplarKormac is retarded, borderline and needs a job" not that "liberals defend freedom."

I didn't take that as a promise, I sought an explanation as to why you think you are capable of defending my freedom. That is a rather bold and arrogant claim coming from you. It is obviously you who is not aware of this world. You spew liberal propaganda fed to you by the liberal establishment instead of researching the veracity of the claims they make. I'm not the one resorting to namecalling instead of a factual argument. Now answer the question.

 

[LoneLaugher]

You need to acknowledge the truth, LL. All you can do is focus on something irrelevant. You are speaking to me and only me. It shows, the fact you won't face me shows you have zero argument. You never answered my question either. How are you "defending" my rights? I mean seriously, you run your mouth on here so much, you can't answer a simple question.

Oh, that's right, you have no answers. You're so full of yourself, you think people should take your comments at face value without doing some digging around. Really, you're pathetic. If I got paid for each time I whipped your hindsides in a debate, I wouldn't need a fucking job.

If you're wrong, I'll point it out. When you say stupid stuff, it's fair game to be rebutted. Either you respond to me, acknowledge me, or ignore me. Your choice.

You are mistaking my general disdain for you and your lameness for some kind of fear. You have never debated here....nevermind whipped anyone at it.

What I said was that liberals will be there to protect your right to free speech if it is ever threatened. You took that to mean some personal promise that I made to you regarding your rights. That is because you are at once self involved and unaware of the world around you. You are borderline retarded and my only interest in dealing with you is to have fun at your expense.

I am pretty sure that I have been very consistent with tht message since the first few times we interacted. You are not capable of carrying your end of any serious discussion. Do you understand?

Now...you ought to get some shut eye so you can get up bright and early pounding tht pavement. You need a job, son. Go get em'.

Oh brother. Run away like a coward. If you have to explain why you won't or can't debate me, you lose. The only message you got across is that "TemplarKormac is retarded, borderline and needs a job" not that "liberals defend freedom."

I didn't take that as a promise, I sought an explanation as to why you think you are capable of defending my freedom. That is a rather bold and arrogant claim coming from you. It is obviously you who is not aware of this world. You spew liberal propaganda fed to you by the liberal establishment instead of researching the veracity of the claims they make. I'm not the one resorting to namecalling instead of a factual argument. Now answer the question.

Do you see me running away? I told you that I will be here to remind you of your place regularly....for my amusement.

You don't read and digest what I say....which is part of the reason that I don't get anything out of didcussionscwith you. It is tiresome. You never acknowledge what is being said to you. Once I gauged your level of intellect back when you first showed up here, I determined that you are not worth any effort. That is wht you get from me. I have easily handled you with absolutely no effort. This will be the case for as long as I decide to humor you.

Alas!

 

[TemplarKormac]

You are mistaking my general disdain for you and your lameness for some kind of fear. You have never debated here....nevermind whipped anyone at it.

What I said was that liberals will be there to protect your right to free speech if it is ever threatened. You took that to mean some personal promise that I made to you regarding your rights. That is because you are at once self involved and unaware of the world around you. You are borderline retarded and my only interest in dealing with you is to have fun at your expense.

I am pretty sure that I have been very consistent with tht message since the first few times we interacted. You are not capable of carrying your end of any serious discussion. Do you understand?

Now...you ought to get some shut eye so you can get up bright and early pounding tht pavement. You need a job, son. Go get em'.

Oh brother. Run away like a coward. If you have to explain why you won't or can't debate me, you lose. The only message you got across is that "TemplarKormac is retarded, borderline and needs a job" not that "liberals defend freedom."

I didn't take that as a promise, I sought an explanation as to why you think you are capable of defending my freedom. That is a rather bold and arrogant claim coming from you. It is obviously you who is not aware of this world. You spew liberal propaganda fed to you by the liberal establishment instead of researching the veracity of the claims they make. I'm not the one resorting to namecalling instead of a factual argument. Now answer the question.

Do you see me running away? I told you that I will be here to remind you of your place regularly....for my amusement.

You don't read and digest what I say....which is part of the reason that I don't get anything out of didcussionscwith you. It is tiresome. You never acknowledge what is being said to you. Once I gauged your level of intellect back when you first showed up here, I determined that you are not worth any effort. That is wht you get from me. I have easily handled you with absolutely no effort. This will be the case for as long as I decide to humor you.

Alas!

You're just a troll LL. Keep trolling, I know your place is below me. Our rep counts indicate that, and you lacking an argument proves it as well. I don't digest or acknowledge what you have to say, because you have nothing intelligent to say. All you do is is call people names and make grandiose claims about being the defender of freedom. But when you make such claims as you did in this thread, expect to be grilled about it.

Answer the question. Stop dodging.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Oh brother. Run away like a coward. If you have to explain why you won't or can't debate me, you lose. The only message you got across is that "TemplarKormac is retarded, borderline and needs a job" not that "liberals defend freedom."

I didn't take that as a promise, I sought an explanation as to why you think you are capable of defending my freedom. That is a rather bold and arrogant claim coming from you. It is obviously you who is not aware of this world. You spew liberal propaganda fed to you by the liberal establishment instead of researching the veracity of the claims they make. I'm not the one resorting to namecalling instead of a factual argument. Now answer the question.

Do you see me running away? I told you that I will be here to remind you of your place regularly....for my amusement.

You don't read and digest what I say....which is part of the reason that I don't get anything out of didcussionscwith you. It is tiresome. You never acknowledge what is being said to you. Once I gauged your level of intellect back when you first showed up here, I determined that you are not worth any effort. That is wht you get from me. I have easily handled you with absolutely no effort. This will be the case for as long as I decide to humor you.

Alas!

You're just a troll LL. Keep trolling, I know your place is below me. Our rep counts indicate that, and you lacking an argument proves it as well. I don't digest or acknowledge what you have to say, because you have nothing intelligent to say. All you do is is call people names and make grandiose claims about being the defender of freedom. But when you make such claims as you did in this thread, expect to be grilled about it.

Answer the question. Stop dodging.

Yes. Our rep count indicates that I am below you. That is exactly perfect.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Do you see me running away? I told you that I will be here to remind you of your place regularly....for my amusement.

You don't read and digest what I say....which is part of the reason that I don't get anything out of didcussionscwith you. It is tiresome. You never acknowledge what is being said to you. Once I gauged your level of intellect back when you first showed up here, I determined that you are not worth any effort. That is wht you get from me. I have easily handled you with absolutely no effort. This will be the case for as long as I decide to humor you.

Alas!

You're just a troll LL. Keep trolling, I know your place is below me. Our rep counts indicate that, and you lacking an argument proves it as well. I don't digest or acknowledge what you have to say, because you have nothing intelligent to say. All you do is is call people names and make grandiose claims about being the defender of freedom. But when you make such claims as you did in this thread, expect to be grilled about it.

Answer the question. Stop dodging.

Yes. Our rep count indicates that I am below you.

And that is where you will remain. I must make a note to myself not to click "view post" on your posts anymore. If you indeed had a job yourself, LL, why do you spend all of your time trolling a message board? I've seen you here at all times of the day. Funny you're the one lecturing me to go seek employment.

Anyhow, I will let you stew in your own juices. You were my entertainment, not the other way around.

 

[LoneLaugher]

You're just a troll LL. Keep trolling, I know your place is below me. Our rep counts indicate that, and you lacking an argument proves it as well. I don't digest or acknowledge what you have to say, because you have nothing intelligent to say. All you do is is call people names and make grandiose claims about being the defender of freedom. But when you make such claims as you did in this thread, expect to be grilled about it.

Answer the question. Stop dodging.

Yes. Our rep count indicates that I am below you.

And that is where you will remain. I must make a note to myself not to click "view post" on your posts anymore. If you indeed had a job yourself, LL, why do you spend all of your time trolling a message board? I've seen you here at all times of the day. Funny you're the one lecturing me to go seek employment.

Anyhow, I will let you stew in your own juices. You were my entertainment, not the other way around.

Of course. I am sure I will be just as entertaining tomorrow. I'll bet you can't wait.

 

[daveman]

There's all that talk about "them" again. Damn. they sure are evil fuckers....and stupid too....since they are so easily manipulated by them!

Pssst! You deliberately ignored Post #264.

Yes.....because it is a story about another nutter probe fishing for some wrongdoing by the IRS. Post it when you have some fucking solid info...maybe an arrest and a conviction or something.

Geez......this is just speculation...and you are trying to use it as proof. Come on.....don't bore me.

Man, you sure get pissy when someone criticizes how Dear Reader conducts business, don't you?

 

[thereisnospoon]

You think I am having a discussion with you, don't you? Idiot. I'm talking to QW.

You are not relevant. You need to be out interviewing for jobs.

You need to acknowledge the truth, LL. All you can do is focus on something irrelevant. You are speaking to me and only me. It shows, the fact you won't face me shows you have zero argument. You never answered my question either. How are you "defending" my rights? I mean seriously, you run your mouth on here so much, you can't answer a simple question.

Oh, that's right, you have no answers. You're so full of yourself, you think people should take your comments at face value without doing some digging around. Really, you're pathetic. If I got paid for each time I whipped your hindsides in a debate, I wouldn't need a fucking job.

If you're wrong, I'll point it out. When you say stupid stuff, it's fair game to be rebutted. Either you respond to me, acknowledge me, or ignore me. Your choice.

You are mistaking my general disdain for you and your lameness for some kind of fear. You have never debated here....nevermind whipped anyone at it.

What I said was that liberals will be there to protect your right to free speech if it is ever threatened. You took that to mean some personal promise that I made to you regarding your rights. That is because you are at once self involved and unaware of the world around you. You are borderline retarded and my only interest in dealing with you is to have fun at your expense.

I am pretty sure that I have been very consistent with tht message since the first few times we interacted. You are not capable of carrying your end of any serious discussion. Do you understand?

Now...you ought to get some shut eye so you can get up bright and early pounding tht pavement. You need a job, son. Go get em'.

Denial is not a defense.

 

[Asclepias]

Lerner had no right to plead the 5th. She was not on trial.
She deliberately withheld testimony from Congress. She knew what she was doing was in direct violation of IRS rules, yet she hid behind a right that did not apply.
She could have been charged with a crime.

Thats not the point and she wasnt charged. The point is that pleading the 5th is not clear evidence.

Do you require music when you tap dance around a discussion?

Do you require an alibi for your crime of evading the truth when your lie is exposed?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Sigh.....

You responded to my comment to someone else....in reference to the web site. Go back and look yourself. You piped in and if you look at the conversation from where I sit...you called the website link EVIDENCE.

And....if you are going to continue to claim that I defended something awful that Obama did.....you need to post the thing I defended, at least. I have no idea what speech you are talking about and as I don't spend a lot of time defending anyone or anything....I think you might be mistaking me for someone else.

Do I really care? No. But it is making for a very tedious discussion.

I responded to a standalone comment asking what happened to the investigation.

If you didn't care, why are you upset?

I am not upset....I am frustrated by this idiotic communication failure that you have prompted. Go back....starting on page 18 and my discussion with Daveman...which you jumped in on.. We were discussing a website link that he posted. Your reply to my comment was....whether you know it or not.....a comment about the website that we were discussing. We were not discussing the investigation that you think we were discussing. You fucked up and misunderstood what you were replying to.

Damn....this is tedious shit.

You claimed I said that some website was conclusive evidence, I didn't. I didn't make the mistake, you did.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

My point is that its not "clear evidence". You have to actually have some evidence for it to be clear correct?

I never said that was the evidence, did I?

Yes but you did. However, I wasnt even talking to you. You said it was "clear evidence" . Are you really that confused you dont remember what you said? Temple of Doom said it was evidence.

I did not.

 

[daveman]

By the way...that was in May. What happened to the probe? That is 5 months ago, bro. And you are still citing the original announcement on that grahdstander's website. There must have been some activity since.

None that I can find, on those particular allegations.

But I found this:

Strassel: The IRS Scandal Started at the Top - WSJ.com

But that's not how things work in post-Watergate Washington. Mr. Obama didn't need to pick up the phone. All he needed to do was exactly what he did do, in full view, for three years: Publicly suggest that conservative political groups were engaged in nefarious deeds; publicly call out by name political opponents whom he'd like to see harassed; and publicly have his party pressure the IRS to take action.

Mr. Obama now professes shock and outrage that bureaucrats at the IRS did exactly what the president of the United States said was the right and honorable thing to do. "He put a target on our backs, and he's now going to blame the people who are shooting at us?" asks Idaho businessman and longtime Republican donor Frank VanderSloot.

Mr. VanderSloot is the Obama target who in 2011 made a sizable donation to a group supporting Mitt Romney. In April 2012, an Obama campaign website named and slurred eight Romney donors. It tarred Mr. VanderSloot as a "wealthy individual" with a "less-than-reputable record." Other donors were described as having been "on the wrong side of the law."

This was the Obama version of the phone call—put out to every government investigator (and liberal activist) in the land.

Twelve days later, a man working for a political opposition-research firm called an Idaho courthouse for Mr. VanderSloot's divorce records. In June, the IRS informed Mr. VanderSloot and his wife of an audit of two years of their taxes. In July, the Department of Labor informed him of an audit of the guest workers on his Idaho cattle ranch. In September, the IRS informed him of a second audit, of one of his businesses. Mr. VanderSloot, who had never been audited before, was subject to three in the four months after Mr. Obama teed him up for such scrutiny.

The last of these audits was only concluded in recent weeks. Not one resulted in a fine or penalty. But Mr. VanderSloot has been waiting more than 20 months for a sizable refund and estimates his legal bills are $80,000. That figure doesn't account for what the president's vilification has done to his business and reputation.​

Just coincidence, right? Has to be.

 

[daveman]

Precisely. And this is the point that they will choose to ignore. For them, virtually every problem must be addressed by the government, because these people are so comfortable with the idea of authoritarianism. The notion of people dealing with this themselves, the notion that there are significant unintended consequences of authoritarianism, will not even enter their thought process.

So, and here's the bottom line: How do they get there from here? They don't start with the government, they start with the culture. The government isn't clamping down on the First Amendment across the board. But at some point, the culture will dictate it, because enough of the culture will be as comfortable with authoritarianism as the Left already is.
.

I see it in a slightly difference light. It's like water slowly but methodically undercutting a foundation. We get used to the ripples, complacent that it is of little consequence, desensitized to any sense of impropriety or danger, comfortable with the very gradual encroachment upon our liberties, choices, options, and opportunities. The phenomenon is further distorted by those who insist everything is fine, there is no problem, we're making it all up, we shouldn't be in the least concerned. They characterize us as winguts or extremists or government haters or worse if we even bring up the subject. And then one day we realize that almost without noticing it was happening, we find ourselves without those liberties, choices, options, and opportunities. We wonder what happened? But it is too late.

I keep telling you guys not to worry. Us liberals will protect those rights that you think are being "slowly but methodically" stripped. We were there to establish them....we won;t leave you hanging.

You keep telling us that -- but you're lying. Oh, you may not know you're lying -- you're dumb enough to believe the crap you're spewing -- but it's still a lie.

 

[daveman]

I keep telling you guys not to worry. Us liberals will protect those rights that you think are being "slowly but methodically" stripped. We were there to establish them....we won;t leave you hanging.

Such arrogance. Just what exactly are you doing to protect my rights? Can you give a few examples? And on a side note, how may "rights" have you "established"?

Psssssst I think your ignore feature is malfunctioning.

I am surprised that you showed your face today after that great thread that you started this morning. You sure are a critical thinker, ain't ya?

It is not arrogance. I am simply informing you that liberals are all about our freedoms and our liberty. We will take the steps necessary to protect them if they are threatened.

Were you out job hunting or were you doing cosplay all day?

"...liberals are all about our freedoms and our liberty."

You got that right. No one else's freedoms and liberty mean anything to you.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Thats not the point and she wasnt charged. The point is that pleading the 5th is not clear evidence.

Do you require music when you tap dance around a discussion?

Do you require an alibi for your crime of evading the truth when your lie is exposed?

WAAAAAAAAHHHH!!!!!
Show me where I told a lie...Christ...

 

[daveman]

By the way...that was in May. What happened to the probe? That is 5 months ago, bro. And you are still citing the original announcement on that grahdstander's website. There must have been some activity since.

It is showing clear evidence that there was an organized, top down, conspiracy at the IRS to target groups based on the political beliefs. Funny thing, Obama doesn't seem to care any more than you do. I expected that though, he already proved he is willing to use the government to attack speech.

No it is not. It is an effort by a nutter Congressman to take an Erik Erikson claim and turn it into an oversight committee hearing.

Clear evidence? Really? You think that had clear evidence? Man.......that is sad.

Absolutely irrefutable evidence has been uncovered that the IRS targeted groups applying for tax-exempt status based solely on ideology.

Do you acknowledge that, or are you going to continue being willfully ignorant?

 

[TemplarKormac]

It is showing clear evidence that there was an organized, top down, conspiracy at the IRS to target groups based on the political beliefs. Funny thing, Obama doesn't seem to care any more than you do. I expected that though, he already proved he is willing to use the government to attack speech.

No it is not. It is an effort by a nutter Congressman to take an Erik Erikson claim and turn it into an oversight committee hearing.

Clear evidence? Really? You think that had clear evidence? Man.......that is sad.

Absolutely irrefutable evidence has been uncovered that the IRS targeted groups applying for tax-exempt status based solely on ideology.

Do you acknowledge that, or are you going to continue being willfully ignorant?

No, he'll just call you stupid or something. LOL.

 

[LoneLaugher]

It is showing clear evidence that there was an organized, top down, conspiracy at the IRS to target groups based on the political beliefs. Funny thing, Obama doesn't seem to care any more than you do. I expected that though, he already proved he is willing to use the government to attack speech.

No it is not. It is an effort by a nutter Congressman to take an Erik Erikson claim and turn it into an oversight committee hearing.

Clear evidence? Really? You think that had clear evidence? Man.......that is sad.

Absolutely irrefutable evidence has been uncovered that the IRS targeted groups applying for tax-exempt status based solely on ideology.

Do you acknowledge that, or are you going to continue being willfully ignorant?

You have changed the subject. The subject we were discussing was your claim that the government was punishing people who made negative comments about the Obama administration on the website that Obama's campaign set up to address false accusations. It was Stockman's letter to Issa asking for an investigation based on Erik Erikson's claim. That went nowhere. As it was nothing.

The fake IRS scandal is still fake. The politically motivated organizations that were flagged based on their NAME were trying to gain tax exempt status. Since organizations with liberal or progressive NAMES were also flagged, it is an indication of a weird policy of flagging more than unfair targeting due to ideology.

Issa has made a fool of himself with the issue. None of those organizations were ever stopped from saying what they wanted to say. And, in fact, none were even denied the tax exemption that they were seeking. That is going nowhere. As it is nothing.

Now...as I have addressed the new topic that you decided to bring up...where would you like to go next?

LOL, Templar....LOL!