There is an active shooter at a Florida Highschool

[depotoo]

We can’t assume that.

An officer is supposed to be roaming the school, not sit at an entrance point, if they are there. And if the city was paying for one to be there, they should not have a day off during the school week, or pulled off by the sheriffs office, as it appears happened here, from what I am hearing.

Seems the officer was not on campus. See my earlier post. Oh, I’ll repeat it for you-


Actually, an officer is paid for by the city, to be assigned to the school, and everything down here is pointing the fact he/she was not there, from our local paper-

The only person trained and armed to fight back against an assailant is Stoneman Douglas’s one school resource officer, a Broward Sheriff’s deputy funded by the city of Parkland. But Maxwell said she doesn’t think he was on campus when the shooting happened.

“I have been told by a couple of sources that the SRO was either called off campus responding to something happening or it could have been his day off,” she said. “They are stretched very thin.”

Neither BSO (Broward Sheriffs Office) nor school district officials responded to requests for comment about the whereabouts of the officer.
Florida school shooting: How was killer able to get around school security?
I have seen this from a number of sources. Notice how the subject has been broached, -yes, there was an officer assigned to the school-
not that the officer was actually there.

It isn't a simple equation...and the best answer is to get rid of gun free zones...then you have any number of people who could be carrying a legal gun, and the killers won't know who or how many....and they will be forced to pick different targets..

It didn’t deter Cruz.

Only leftists are stupid enough that when they get their way and 17 kids are murdered, they think that proves them right

You cut yourself with that double edge sword as the same can be said about conservatives.

In the Washington Navy Yard, the shooter just shot the security guy first

I don't see how that changes anything. Obviously the kid would have known there was a security guard at his school and looked for him

 

[kaz]

We can’t assume that.

An officer is supposed to be roaming the school, not sit at an entrance point, if they are there. And if the city was paying for one to be there, they should not have a day off during the school week, or pulled off by the sheriffs office, as it appears happened here, from what I am hearing.

Seems the officer was not on campus. See my earlier post. Oh, I’ll repeat it for you-


Actually, an officer is paid for by the city, to be assigned to the school, and everything down here is pointing the fact he/she was not there, from our local paper-

The only person trained and armed to fight back against an assailant is Stoneman Douglas’s one school resource officer, a Broward Sheriff’s deputy funded by the city of Parkland. But Maxwell said she doesn’t think he was on campus when the shooting happened.

“I have been told by a couple of sources that the SRO was either called off campus responding to something happening or it could have been his day off,” she said. “They are stretched very thin.”

Neither BSO (Broward Sheriffs Office) nor school district officials responded to requests for comment about the whereabouts of the officer.
Florida school shooting: How was killer able to get around school security?
I have seen this from a number of sources. Notice how the subject has been broached, -yes, there was an officer assigned to the school-
not that the officer was actually there.

It didn’t deter Cruz.

You cut yourself with that double edge sword as the same can be said about conservatives.

In the Washington Navy Yard, the shooter just shot the security guy first

I don't see how that changes anything. Obviously the kid would have known there was a security guard at his school and looked for him

Are you seriously suggesting that a kid who went to that high school wouldn't think about the one guy there he knew was armed? Seriously? After he specifically picked a gun free zone?

Regardless, I have no idea what you think you're arguing

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Never said he did. All bullshit leftist data posted by others aside, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THESE SCHOOL SHOOTINGS has had a liberal influence in the family. Not one of them was from a strong, moral, conservative upbringing. If there are a few white supremacists out there committing crimes, their numbers pale in comparison and hardly make the news. There is something about liberal upbringing that makes people crazy. Normal people don't go out doing this stuff. Liberals are the Antifa who run around in black masks beating up women and knocking down statues of dead soldiers and traveling the country looking for fights to start, tearing up campuses, breaking windows, stomping police cars, rioting in cities, trying to put men in girls bathrooms, attacking their own country and going berserk because some sensible person comes to their campus to give some different views to hear and think about. Liberals are crazy. Liberals are intolerant. They are mental defects. Liberals are liars who punish kids for playing cops and robbers now and we didn't have this national problem until liberals got a hold of controlling our media and our schools. Look at liberals now: When GW Bush was in, they went berserk with vitriol at the man! Now that another non-Leftist is in the WH, they deny he is even President, try to block his administration as if it were Satan incarnate and are trying to get the man impeached on any phony charge they can dream up in their little minds. Good God, he's just a businessman who cared enough to put his life aside to try to help fix the country.

Children are perceptive. They have an intuition about what's bull and what is not. We are forcing kids into these insane asylums we call "schools" now where everyday the system sets up a conflict of irrational restrictions, rules and unfair punishments, and it builds up in these kids and they internalize it until finally, one of them snaps, gets a hold of a gun somewhere, and wants nothing more than to come back and blow away the very people who have tormented their lives.

Guns are not the problem and no gun law in the world will ever solve anything. There are MILLIONS of guns everywhere and people are not going to turn them in and the people will not stand for having their Constitution turned on its head and even if you turn this country into a police state where every home is broken down and searched and every gun is confiscated by force, a solution far worse than the problems sought solved, people will still hide a lot of the guns and all of the criminals will still have guns and millions more guns will be snuck back into the country and all of the elite will still have theirs and all you will do is escalate this country into a police state where everyone fears and mistrusts their neighbor, crime will soar and kids will still find a new way of taking it out on those they hate.

If you want to solve the school problem, you NEED TO CHANGE THE SCHOOLS and you need to change society to get all of this mind numbing PC bullshit out of our culture. We never had this problem until liberalism ran rampant to where it cripples every industry and aspect of our country now, to where states and cities now even fight to oppose their own government to oppose enforcing laws on rounding up CRIMINALS from other countries.

If you want to see why these kids are shooting up schools, if you are a liberal, go put down your computer for a minute right now, walk to the nearest mirror and LOOK RIGHT AT THE PROBLEM.

It is not about liberal upbringing vs. conservative upbringing. It's not a political or right/left thing. You aren't wrong that a stable family is pretty important to kids, but you're totally wrong to politicize who is "right" and who is "wrong."

No...actually, it is about fathers in the homes......single mothers, especially young teenage mothers.......notice...you had that dynamic in Sandy Hook, Vegas, and this one.......

His mother was NOT a teenager! He grew up with older adoptive parents.

WTF does Vegas have to do with it? The guy was my age and I am older than dirt!

The mother was on her own when the husband died.....he was 6 when that happened....

The Vegas shooter, another single mother.....

She was a single mother because her husband was a bank robber and the shooter was 7 when his father was arrested! It's not like he ran out on the family!

First of all, the adoptive father died of a heart attack in 2005. Just another example of you making shit up-and for what purpose? It matters little why the was a single mother.

Secondly, the state clearly failed in it's obligation to find the boy a father figure and force him to marry the mothers. Or, the government could remove all children from single parents-regardless of age or circumstances- and place them with couples. Of course there are not enough couples who are willing and qualified to adopt, so the state would have to lower standards, and possibly mandate that all childless couples adopt at lease one child.

Hey, it might be a little messy and unpopular, but anything is better than single parents.........or GUN CONTROLL

 

[RealDave]

Thousands Gather At Parkland Vigil To Tell The NRA To ‘Stop Killing Our Kids’

The NRA-owned president and Congress may not want to talk about guns in the aftermath of yet another mass shooting, but those in Parkland, Florida are demanding immediate action from lawmakers.…

So talk....smart ass....what are your solutions....genius?

How about ending gun free zones? How about armed security or armed staff in the buildings....genius....

There was an armed officer at the school. Didn’t do any good.

One armed officer in a building that holds 2,000 students........that isn't armed security....

Oh? How many students per armed guard are needed?

We don't need armed guards. We can just allow the administrators and teachers who want to learn to use guns safely and carry them on their own to do it for free.

Congrats on the 17 dead for your leftist political points though, you've been walking on a cloud since

The NRA solution spewed by an NRA dupe.

The answer to you asswipes is always more guns.

 

[RealDave]

It is not about liberal upbringing vs. conservative upbringing. It's not a political or right/left thing. You aren't wrong that a stable family is pretty important to kids, but you're totally wrong to politicize who is "right" and who is "wrong."

No...actually, it is about fathers in the homes......single mothers, especially young teenage mothers.......notice...you had that dynamic in Sandy Hook, Vegas, and this one.......

His mother was NOT a teenager! He grew up with older adoptive parents.

WTF does Vegas have to do with it? The guy was my age and I am older than dirt!

The mother was on her own when the husband died.....he was 6 when that happened....

The Vegas shooter, another single mother.....

She was a single mother because her husband was a bank robber and the shooter was 7 when his father was arrested! It's not like he ran out on the family!

First of all, the adoptive father died of a heart attack in 2005. Just another example of you making shit up-and for what purpose? It matters little why the was a single mother.

Secondly, the state clearly failed in it's obligation to find the boy a father figure and force him to marry the mothers. Or, the government could remove all children from single parents-regardless of age or circumstances- and place them with couples. Of course there are not enough couples who are willing and qualified to adopt, so the state would have to lower standards, and possibly mandate that all childless couples adopt at lease one child.

Hey, it might be a little messy and unpopular, but anything is better than single parents.........or GUN CONTROLL

I agree. I grew up in a single parent household.

 

[kaz]

So talk....smart ass....what are your solutions....genius?

How about ending gun free zones? How about armed security or armed staff in the buildings....genius....

There was an armed officer at the school. Didn’t do any good.

One armed officer in a building that holds 2,000 students........that isn't armed security....

Oh? How many students per armed guard are needed?

We don't need armed guards. We can just allow the administrators and teachers who want to learn to use guns safely and carry them on their own to do it for free.

Congrats on the 17 dead for your leftist political points though, you've been walking on a cloud since

The NRA solution spewed by an NRA dupe.

The answer to you asswipes is always more guns.

So in Florida, no one had guns, no one shot back. Your way worked. And 17 people died. Congrats on that success, happy week for you. But yes, the solution was having more guns.

How stupid are you?

 

[RealDave]

Doctor Grump likes to pretend everyone lives a small population homogeneous country with no international borders like he does. I mean, what works in Mayberry RFD will work everywhere, right?

He's not interested at all in learning anything about the United States and how it's different than New Zealand. Just lecturing us how they do it and assuming it would work here

Posted by a friend of mine in Sydney, who is a New Yorker. He wondered in his post that maybe the reason wasn't guns, maybe it was the water....

Yeah, but our mass murderers kill a lot fewer people than the leftist mass murderers like Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Mussolini, Chavez, Castro, ... do.

And guns are one of the reasons why. Your country is very homogeneous, you have no borders, you have a tiny population compared to ours, you aren't importing murderers and criminals without checking them out like we are, you have the ability to lock up the mentally ill like we don't.

There are so many differences and yet all you do to address any of that is throw out insightful statistics.

What is clear in shooting after shooting is that our gun laws work, the victims aren't armed. Good job on that

Left and Right, Liberal and Conservative can have radically different meanings in different countries, particularly in the US. In many ways American Conservatives are actually very liberal and American liberals at times would be considered very conservative in other countries.
IMHO, it is the issues that are important, not the ideologies.

Leftists in the United States aren't liberal, you're authoritarians. You're intolerant and hateful, you shut down speech, call any idea you disagree with racist and want government to silence your enemies, who is anyone who disagrees with you. There is absolutely nothing liberal about you.

Libertarians are liberals. We may not agree with your ideas, but we don't want government to have the power to silence you even though you believe government can and should silence us ... and everyone else

You trumpette right wingers think that the freedom of speech means you can spew your slurs & hate speak without retribution.

It os your orange buddy that is limiting free speech by trying to silent the press with his "Fake News" bullshit.

 

[Dr Grump]

Yay!! And which country claims to be the freest of them all...RATFLMAO!!!

We could be more like China and execute more people convicted rather than incarcerate them.
Not that I think that is a good idea ... But it would certainly make our incarceration numbers look better ...

.

Why aim so low. Why not look at Europe, or Australia or Canada or NZ? How come when you guys try and make a point you head towards totalitarian regimes when there are plenty of first-world countries to choose from? Oh, that's right, choosing those examples wouldn't fit your POV.

 

[kaz]

Doctor Grump likes to pretend everyone lives a small population homogeneous country with no international borders like he does. I mean, what works in Mayberry RFD will work everywhere, right?

He's not interested at all in learning anything about the United States and how it's different than New Zealand. Just lecturing us how they do it and assuming it would work here

Posted by a friend of mine in Sydney, who is a New Yorker. He wondered in his post that maybe the reason wasn't guns, maybe it was the water....

Yeah, but our mass murderers kill a lot fewer people than the leftist mass murderers like Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Mussolini, Chavez, Castro, ... do.

And guns are one of the reasons why. Your country is very homogeneous, you have no borders, you have a tiny population compared to ours, you aren't importing murderers and criminals without checking them out like we are, you have the ability to lock up the mentally ill like we don't.

There are so many differences and yet all you do to address any of that is throw out insightful statistics.

What is clear in shooting after shooting is that our gun laws work, the victims aren't armed. Good job on that

Left and Right, Liberal and Conservative can have radically different meanings in different countries, particularly in the US. In many ways American Conservatives are actually very liberal and American liberals at times would be considered very conservative in other countries.
IMHO, it is the issues that are important, not the ideologies.

Leftists in the United States aren't liberal, you're authoritarians. You're intolerant and hateful, you shut down speech, call any idea you disagree with racist and want government to silence your enemies, who is anyone who disagrees with you. There is absolutely nothing liberal about you.

Libertarians are liberals. We may not agree with your ideas, but we don't want government to have the power to silence you even though you believe government can and should silence us ... and everyone else

You trumpette right wingers think that the freedom of speech means you can spew your slurs & hate speak without retribution.

It os your orange buddy that is limiting free speech by trying to silent the press with his "Fake News" bullshit.

You insulted me first, you stupid mother fucker.

Not a Trump supporter and didn't vote for him. I'm not a conservative either, I'm a libertarian.

You're just whiffing all over the place.

However, you got your way. Every law abiding citizen (meaning the ones who follow laws, see what I did there) didn't have a gun. Your plan worked. And 17 people are dead because of it. Not to point fingers or anything, but that's on you. It was your plan. So what do you have to say for yourself?

 

[Dr Grump]

You made it your problem when you started to whine people aren't reading every one of your posts.

And BTW, that post was written to me and I remembered it correctly.

You pulled out of your ass that you'd written some well thought through solution that was different than the more laws solution of the leftist Americans.

I actually remembered it exactly correctly. You'd written the more laws solution of the leftist Americans

I didn't whine at all. I was stating a fact. You whined that I wasn't offering any solutions when I clearly have on many occasions, even on this thread.

No didn't pull them out of my arse. They are solutions that we use in Oz and NZ and work well thank you very much.

Your laws aren't enforced and suck. You are basically at the will of compliant politicians who fear the NRA and their financial clout and how it will affect their re election chances. Freeist country in the world my arse. You people are subject to the organisation with the biggest slush fund. Drain the swamp indeed. Funny how the guy who said he'll drain the swamp helped create it. BTW, how is that draining going? Oh, that's right, it's not. What a fucked up country.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

No...actually, it is about fathers in the homes......single mothers, especially young teenage mothers.......notice...you had that dynamic in Sandy Hook, Vegas, and this one.......

His mother was NOT a teenager! He grew up with older adoptive parents.

WTF does Vegas have to do with it? The guy was my age and I am older than dirt!

The mother was on her own when the husband died.....he was 6 when that happened....

The Vegas shooter, another single mother.....

She was a single mother because her husband was a bank robber and the shooter was 7 when his father was arrested! It's not like he ran out on the family!

First of all, the adoptive father died of a heart attack in 2005. Just another example of you making shit up-and for what purpose? It matters little why the was a single mother.

Secondly, the state clearly failed in it's obligation to find the boy a father figure and force him to marry the mothers. Or, the government could remove all children from single parents-regardless of age or circumstances- and place them with couples. Of course there are not enough couples who are willing and qualified to adopt, so the state would have to lower standards, and possibly mandate that all childless couples adopt at lease one child.

Hey, it might be a little messy and unpopular, but anything is better than single parents.........or GUN CONTROLL

I agree. I grew up in a single parent household.

You agree? Seriously?

 

[kaz]

You made it your problem when you started to whine people aren't reading every one of your posts.

And BTW, that post was written to me and I remembered it correctly.

You pulled out of your ass that you'd written some well thought through solution that was different than the more laws solution of the leftist Americans.

I actually remembered it exactly correctly. You'd written the more laws solution of the leftist Americans

I didn't whine at all. I was stating a fact. You whined that I wasn't offering any solutions when I clearly have on many occasions, even on this thread.

No didn't pull them out of my arse. They are solutions that we use in Oz and NZ and work well thank you very much.

Your laws aren't enforced and suck. You are basically at the will of compliant politicians who fear the NRA and their financial clout and how it will affect their re election chances. Freeist country in the world my arse. You people are subject to the organisation with the biggest slush fund. Drain the swamp indeed. Funny how the guy who said he'll drain the swamp helped create it. BTW, how is that draining going? Oh, that's right, it's not. What a fucked up country.

After you whined you'd already provided a plan, I searched for it, found it and addressed each of your useless points. Anything on that or just here to whine again?

Your plan was the typical, useless, leftist drivel Americans say here, just like I said it was. Our laws aren't working, we need more laws!

 

[Flopper]

What would you propose they do? Lop off his head?

why so dramatic

have him evaluated could have barred him from ownership

Have him evaluated for what? Being an asshole? What law did he break to warrant a mental health evaluation? There aren't enough prisons in the US to hold all of the Democrats we would need to lock up!

mental illness you dont have to break a law for a mental health evaluation

If you are on Medicaid, it's a challenge to find good mental health professionals that will take you, primarily because the reimbursement is likely to be 40% to 50%. In my area getting an appointment with a psychiatrist that accepts Medicaid can take months and that's with a referral. If you try to kill yourself, you get pretty fast action, 3 to 5 days of evaluation, discharge, a hand full of pills, and a better luck next time.

Unfortunately those that need help the most are likely to be on Medicaid and likely to get the worst care. Nowhere is income inequality so obvious as mental health care for the poor.

indeed that is all true and maybe worse in some cases

medicaid just does not cover the cost

out here at our full service facility we only accept x amount of medicaid and medicare enrollments

however in the case of a court ordered mental evaluation the state picks up the tab

This ridiculous situation got started with some studies of effectiveness of inpatient mental health care back in the 70's and 80's. The conclusion was that most patients could be treated more effectively with outpatient services at significant savings. With big cost savings in mind, we started dumping institutional patients and tightening the criteria for inpatient care. The only thing missing from the plan was sufficient out patient mental healthcare for the poor. Medicaid has never provided anywhere near what is needed. Today Medicaid is paying for over 25% of the mental healthcare bill of the country which commonly is evaluations, 3 to 5 day stays, a handful of pills, and very limited long term treatment for the people in the country who need it the most.

Every time some mentally unbalance teen, father, or mother kills their family, friends, co-workers, or class mates, someone will point how badly intervention was needed and nothing was done. Well, there is good reason why nothing is done, lack of money and coordination of service.

 

[depotoo]

It appears from your argument you don’t think having armed officers on campus is a deterrent. I personally don’t agree with that assessment.

We can’t assume that.

An officer is supposed to be roaming the school, not sit at an entrance point, if they are there. And if the city was paying for one to be there, they should not have a day off during the school week, or pulled off by the sheriffs office, as it appears happened here, from what I am hearing.

Seems the officer was not on campus. See my earlier post. Oh, I’ll repeat it for you-


Actually, an officer is paid for by the city, to be assigned to the school, and everything down here is pointing the fact he/she was not there, from our local paper-

The only person trained and armed to fight back against an assailant is Stoneman Douglas’s one school resource officer, a Broward Sheriff’s deputy funded by the city of Parkland. But Maxwell said she doesn’t think he was on campus when the shooting happened.

“I have been told by a couple of sources that the SRO was either called off campus responding to something happening or it could have been his day off,” she said. “They are stretched very thin.”

Neither BSO (Broward Sheriffs Office) nor school district officials responded to requests for comment about the whereabouts of the officer.
Florida school shooting: How was killer able to get around school security?
I have seen this from a number of sources. Notice how the subject has been broached, -yes, there was an officer assigned to the school-
not that the officer was actually there.

In the Washington Navy Yard, the shooter just shot the security guy first

I don't see how that changes anything. Obviously the kid would have known there was a security guard at his school and looked for him

Are you seriously suggesting that a kid who went to that high school wouldn't think about the one guy there he knew was armed? Seriously? After he specifically picked a gun free zone?

Regardless, I have no idea what you think you're arguing

 

[kaz]

It appears from your argument you don’t think having armed officers on campus is a deterrent. I personally don’t agree with that assessment.

We can’t assume that.

An officer is supposed to be roaming the school, not sit at an entrance point, if they are there. And if the city was paying for one to be there, they should not have a day off during the school week, or pulled off by the sheriffs office, as it appears happened here, from what I am hearing.

In the Washington Navy Yard, the shooter just shot the security guy first

I don't see how that changes anything. Obviously the kid would have known there was a security guard at his school and looked for him

Are you seriously suggesting that a kid who went to that high school wouldn't think about the one guy there he knew was armed? Seriously? After he specifically picked a gun free zone?

Regardless, I have no idea what you think you're arguing

Strawman. I said one security guard is not a replacement for all adults having the option to carry guns and the gunman not knowing which ones are doing that

 

[Flopper]

Thousands Gather At Parkland Vigil To Tell The NRA To ‘Stop Killing Our Kids’

The NRA-owned president and Congress may not want to talk about guns in the aftermath of yet another mass shooting, but those in Parkland, Florida are demanding immediate action from lawmakers.…

So talk....smart ass....what are your solutions....genius?

How about ending gun free zones? How about armed security or armed staff in the buildings....genius....

There was an armed officer at the school. Didn’t do any good.

One armed officer in a building that holds 2,000 students........that isn't armed security....

Oh? How many students per armed guard are needed?

Having security personnel, equipment and enforced safety procedures can prevent a lot of school violence including shootings but the cost is high, estimated at 3 to 5 billion a year. One thing that can be done to improve school security without a lot of cost is, better use of school resource officers, enforcing visitor rules, locks on classroom doors, and securing entrances.

 

[BlackSand]

Why aim so low. Why not look at Europe, or Australia or Canada or NZ? How come when you guys try and make a point you head towards totalitarian regimes when there are plenty of first-world countries to choose from? Oh, that's right, choosing those examples wouldn't fit your POV.

I don't need to look around the world to see you have nothing to negotiate with on the table.
You are not interested in a compromise ... And I am not interested in your empty promises ... Go pound sand ...

.

 

[Dr Grump]

[

After you whined you'd already provided a plan, I searched for it, found it and addressed each of your useless points. Anything on that or just here to whine again?

Your plan was the typical, useless, leftist drivel Americans say here, just like I said it was. Our laws aren't working, we need more laws!

What makes you think I was whining? You WHINED and bitched and moaned there were no viable solutions. How is me posting said solutions, whining? It's like you saying "who played Al Capone in the Untouchables". I say "Robert de Niro". You say "Stop whining." Totally unrelated to each other.

I think the above says a lot about your mindset. Not mine

It works down here. How is that useless?

 

[kaz]

[

After you whined you'd already provided a plan, I searched for it, found it and addressed each of your useless points. Anything on that or just here to whine again?

Your plan was the typical, useless, leftist drivel Americans say here, just like I said it was. Our laws aren't working, we need more laws!

What makes you think I was whining? You WHINED and bitched and moaned there were no viable solutions. How is me posting said solutions, whining? It's like you saying "who played Al Capone in the Untouchables". I say "Robert de Niro". You say "Stop whining." Totally unrelated to each other.

I think the above says a lot about your mindset. Not mine

It works down here. How is that useless?

Thank you, exactly the point I was making. Cut the emotional commentary you like to lace your posts with and just address the point

 

[Dr Grump]

I don't need to look around the world to see you have nothing to negotiate with on the table.
You are not interested in a compromise ... And I am not interested in your empty promises ... Go pound sand ...

.

Ie: Blacksand: "I have nothing."
Me: "I know."