This is why we need a living wage

[Amelia]

That was question 1.

Question 2 is what would inflation be if the minimum wage kept up with inflation? Wouldn't raising the minimum wage increase inflation? Would there be anything resembling an equilibrium state?

 

[sameech]

Unfortunately, I think food stamps and other non-monetary compensation protects low-wage workers from predatory lending. Because these people often feel they have so little to lose, they are more eager to enter into exploitative loans thinking that surviving today is more important than whatever consequences may be levied against them in the future.

If predatory lending could somehow be prohibited, wages would automatically go up because there would be less desperate competition for jobs at low wage levels. Black market activity is almost impossible to control, though, so there are always going to be people who lend their 'friends' money derived from whatever source, licit or illicit, and then torture and/or enslave them to get it back with interest, even if it's just by pushing them to get more hours at Walmart or a 2nd (or 3rd) job.

Predatory lending could be outlawed, but there is also the other side of this coin. It isn't just that poor people agree because they have little to lose, but lenders will not lend to them at normal rates because they have EVERYTHING to lose in the deal. The old saying "You can't get blood out of a turnip" comes to mind.

Good post though.

--Sam

 

[Againsheila]

I seriously have no idea how some one makes it on $15 an hour! I guarantee once they get $15 per hour, they will say I can't make it we need $20!!!


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Truth is, if mw had kept up with inflation, it would be over $16.00 an hour by now.

Using which year as the benchmark?

The year it started. When it could support a family of three above poverty.

 

[Againsheila]

That was question 1.

Question 2 is what would inflation be if the minimum wage kept up with inflation? Wouldn't raising the minimum wage increase inflation? Would there be anything resembling an equilibrium state?

In Washington State, our minimum wage has been indexed to inflation for years. Haven't noticed that we have more inflation than California, in fact, we have less.

 

[priceless]

Predatory lending could be outlawed, but there is also the other side of this coin. It isn't just that poor people agree because they have little to lose, but lenders will not lend to them at normal rates because they have EVERYTHING to lose in the deal. The old saying "You can't get blood out of a turnip" comes to mind.

Are you assuming that there's no way to survive without borrowing in some way or other? I guess I'm enough of a believer in the relative value of money and ability for the economy to meet people halfway that I think if people would avoid borrowing money altogether, they could make due and survive in one way or another until prices came down to levels they could afford.

They might have to live in tents or igloos and wear 2nd hand clothing, etc. but eventually businesses would compete to provide them goods and services at prices they could afford at their income level.

I think you're right, though, that predatory lenders profit from being able to whitewash and/or regularize their sources of income enough to take advantage of 'normal rates' and thereby profit from lending to others at higher rates.

 

[sameech]

Are you assuming that there's no way to survive without borrowing in some way or other? I guess I'm enough of a believer in the relative value of money and ability for the economy to meet people halfway that I think if people would avoid borrowing money altogether, they could make due and survive in one way or another until prices came down to levels they could afford.

They might have to live in tents or igloos and wear 2nd hand clothing, etc. but eventually businesses would compete to provide them goods and services at prices they could afford at their income level.

I think you're right, though, that predatory lenders profit from being able to whitewash and/or regularize their sources of income enough to take advantage of 'normal rates' and thereby profit from lending to others at higher rates.

I am assuming that if someone's car breaks down and they need it to get to work and do not have the money for the repairs, they might borrow it as they do not have time for the market to catch up to them.

 

[depotoo]

The Shocking Truth About What It Would Cost Us All If Walmart Paid A Living Wage

Watch the video.

$300,000,000 a year in food stamps just for walmart employees. Give them a living wage and we pay an extra 1.4% on their goods. One penny for every dollar spent at Walmart and those employees would not need to live on food stamps.

Have you ever once thought of the money Walmart saves us tax payors by giving the unskilled worker a chance to work, rather than their remaining unemployed??

 

[dblack]

The Shocking Truth About What It Would Cost Us All If Walmart Paid A Living Wage

Watch the video.

$300,000,000 a year in food stamps just for walmart employees. Give them a living wage and we pay an extra 1.4% on their goods. One penny for every dollar spent at Walmart and those employees would not need to live on food stamps.

Have you ever once thought of the money Walmart saves us tax payors by giving the unskilled worker a chance to work, rather than their remaining unemployed??

No.

 

[sameech]

Every person I have known to work at Kmart started off at MW, so Walmart is not some horrible offender for starting people off at the bottom, but people do not hate on Kmart.

Walmart's profits are primarily the result of two things:

1) The people they don't have to hire because of their insanely efficient inventory & deliver network; and
2) Even beyond the savings they would get in buying in huge bulk, they exert pressure on suppliers to provide goods at or near production costs.

If they are suppressing wages, it is in the supplier chain and not their stores. Someone who works for such a supplier told me that their employer probably lost money on most shipments to Walmart, but they were afraid that not being on the shelves there could damage their brand in that if people couldn't get it at walmart, they might also not buy it at Kroger or wherever.

 

[HenryBHough]

I regularly comparison shop Kroger and Walmart. Many items I regularly buy may be in or out of stock at Walmart. Too often out. Price is a crap shoot; about an even split as to who has the best price on any given item; often the difference is in pennies.

Kroger is cutting their own throats by cutting back on staffing. In the local store policy allows only two (2, libs) cashiers from opening until 11am Saturdays. Front-end manager often runs a register himself to keep customers from abandoning full baskets and leaving when lines are too long.

Walmart is doing the same thing - cutting back on cashiers and pushing the robotic checkouts. They seem surprised when customers get half way through a self-checkout, give up in frustration and leave. Only fully functional grocery in the area is Safeway - excellent service and short lines if you can afford the prices. If you put any value on your time sometimes their high prices represent the best value.

 

[beagle9]

The Shocking Truth About What It Would Cost Us All If Walmart Paid A Living Wage

Watch the video.

$300,000,000 a year in food stamps just for walmart employees. Give them a living wage and we pay an extra 1.4% on their goods. One penny for every dollar spent at Walmart and those employees would not need to live on food stamps.

Have you ever once thought of the money Walmart saves us tax payors by giving the unskilled worker a chance to work, rather than their remaining unemployed??

What ever happened to the mutual respect between company and worker when it came to businesses and their employee's, where as one needs the other just as bad as the other needs the one ? This idea of people being blackmailed or leveraged as the talk always goes anymore is out right disgusting to say the least. I remember when I was 16 years old, my uncle ask me to come down and apply for a job at the Volkswagen dealership. I went into the interview, and the one doing the hiring treated me like I was somebody. He ask me did I have my own tools, and I said I do have some, and he said to me that he would give me a chance, and he hired me based on that interview. Then he told me how the structure of the pay system worked there, where as I would be hired at minimum wage, and after 3 months I would be re-evaluated for another raise. He told me after 6 months I could get health insurance with the company and on and on after that. I was considered as part time until 18, but I was still treated like I was a man who was respected as a man, even though I wasn't quite the man I could be just yet. I then started out washing all the used and new cars there, and started keeping the lot up. I would train with my uncle 2 days out the week (all this was after school) on the mechanical side of the situation.

What happened to these concepts in America ?

 

[priceless]

I am assuming that if someone's car breaks down and they need it to get to work and do not have the money for the repairs, they might borrow it as they do not have time for the market to catch up to them.

I think this is the essence of why the supply side has the upper hand and thus why inflation is so often the norm. Theoretically there is a point where it is more rational to cut losses and stop borrowing by cutting expenditures but as long as money is available to borrow, there are going to be people who go ahead and borrow it instead of restructuring their spending.

Then, as you suggest, they just persist in economic patterns they've gotten used to and assume that all the expenditures required for maintaining those patterns are inevitable. It's the "status quo or bust" approach but the question is at what point borrowing is no longer a sufficient means of maintaining the status quo indefinitely. At what point does restructuring become inevitable?

Or can the "too big to fail" economy continue indefinitely underwriting a vast persisting network of lending and bailouts when borrowed money fails to get repaid?

 

[sameech]

I am assuming that if someone's car breaks down and they need it to get to work and do not have the money for the repairs, they might borrow it as they do not have time for the market to catch up to them.

I think this is the essence of why the supply side has the upper hand and thus why inflation is so often the norm. Theoretically there is a point where it is more rational to cut losses and stop borrowing by cutting expenditures but as long as money is available to borrow, there are going to be people who go ahead and borrow it instead of restructuring their spending.

Then, as you suggest, they just persist in economic patterns they've gotten used to and assume that all the expenditures required for maintaining those patterns are inevitable. It's the "status quo or bust" approach but the question is at what point borrowing is no longer a sufficient means of maintaining the status quo indefinitely. At what point does restructuring become inevitable?

Or can the "too big to fail" economy continue indefinitely underwriting a vast persisting network of lending and bailouts when borrowed money fails to get repaid?

What happens is we end up with inflation due to too much money being in circulation. Personally, I am surprised it has not happened yet since the vast amount of money is now electronic. Probably the only reason it hasn't happened is that the capital markets are holding onto it. We have selective run away inflation on real estate, stocks, and college tuition. I am not sure if that is good or bad that the inflation is being contained to certain sectors.

 

[Uncensored2008]

This is happening in part because tax payers subsidize their workers & their business. This is why we have inflation. The data proves high wages have never caused inflation or job loss. It is a fiction preached by the shepherds to their flock of sheep. They parrot this lie instinctively while the data proves it is all lies.

You've never had even an introduction to economics class.

Did you make it into high school?

{CBO examined the budget impacts of raising the minimum wage to $9 and $10.10. The report concluded that a $9 increase would lift 300,000 workers above the poverty line, but cost 100,000 new jobs as employers are expected to reduce workforces to make up for higher wages. A $10.10 increase would lift 900,000 workers above the poverty line, but cost 500,000 jobs.}

CBO report: Minimum wage hike could cost 500,000 jobs

The Minimum Wage Delusion, And The Death Of Common Sense - Forbes



What is Minimum Wage: Its History and Effects on the Economy

 

[Uncensored2008]

The cost of overhead?

LOL - You don't even understand that profit is after all cost overhead has been paid.

You are not even smart enough to discuss complex issues like subsidies.

And it appears you're lying....
JPMorgan Gross Profit vs Profit Margin

JPMorgan Gross Profit was $96,381,000,000

So, it appears that it was you who didn't grasp the concept of overhead.

Shall I hold my breath while I wait for you to apologize to Herwegoagain?

 

[Uncensored2008]

What happens is we end up with inflation due to too much money being in circulation. Personally, I am surprised it has not happened yet since the vast amount of money is now electronic. Probably the only reason it hasn't happened is that the capital markets are holding onto it. We have selective run away inflation on real estate, stocks, and college tuition. I am not sure if that is good or bad that the inflation is being contained to certain sectors.

Actually, inflation has hit pretty hard. If you look at food prices, you'll find about a 20% annual increase since 2008.

The blow of this has been softened by the decrease in the costs of electronics and many manufactured goods. A combination of offshore production, automation, and increased efficiency offers lower costs - thus prices, for the array of foreign produced goods. Cars and TV's cost a fraction of what they used to cost. The result is a CPI that appears to show only moderate inflation. Domestic inflation is actually at the 20% range, and rising. A steak cost double what it did 5 years ago, so does a domestically grown tomato. But even in produce, the reaction to sky rocketing domestic prices has been to carry Mexican and Chilean produce.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

And it appears you're lying....
JPMorgan Gross Profit vs Profit Margin

JPMorgan Gross Profit was $96,381,000,000

So, it appears that it was you who didn't grasp the concept of overhead.

Shall I hold my breath while I wait for you to apologize to Herwegoagain?

I wouldnt......

 

[Againsheila]

This is happening in part because tax payers subsidize their workers & their business. This is why we have inflation. The data proves high wages have never caused inflation or job loss. It is a fiction preached by the shepherds to their flock of sheep. They parrot this lie instinctively while the data proves it is all lies.

You've never had even an introduction to economics class.

Did you make it into high school?

{CBO examined the budget impacts of raising the minimum wage to $9 and $10.10. The report concluded that a $9 increase would lift 300,000 workers above the poverty line, but cost 100,000 new jobs as employers are expected to reduce workforces to make up for higher wages. A $10.10 increase would lift 900,000 workers above the poverty line, but cost 500,000 jobs.}

CBO report: Minimum wage hike could cost 500,000 jobs

The Minimum Wage Delusion, And The Death Of Common Sense - Forbes



What is Minimum Wage: Its History and Effects on the Economy

And yet, the last several times the minimum wage was raised, there was no net loss of jobs.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

This is happening in part because tax payers subsidize their workers & their business. This is why we have inflation. The data proves high wages have never caused inflation or job loss. It is a fiction preached by the shepherds to their flock of sheep. They parrot this lie instinctively while the data proves it is all lies.

You've never had even an introduction to economics class.

Did you make it into high school?

{CBO examined the budget impacts of raising the minimum wage to $9 and $10.10. The report concluded that a $9 increase would lift 300,000 workers above the poverty line, but cost 100,000 new jobs as employers are expected to reduce workforces to make up for higher wages. A $10.10 increase would lift 900,000 workers above the poverty line, but cost 500,000 jobs.}

CBO report: Minimum wage hike could cost 500,000 jobs

The Minimum Wage Delusion, And The Death Of Common Sense - Forbes



What is Minimum Wage: Its History and Effects on the Economy

And yet, the last several times the minimum wage was raised, there was no net loss of jobs.

Link?

 

[Uncensored2008]

And yet, the last several times the minimum wage was raised, there was no net loss of jobs.

False,

About 500,000 low wage jobs were lost under Clinton, short term. After 2 years, it declined to about 100,000 jobs lost.

President Clinton: Raising the Minimum Wage -- An Overdue Pay Raise for America’s Working Families

The biggest issue was the demographic shift, about 1 million American's under 25 lost employment due to the rate increase, to be replaced by illegal aliens. Ultimately, the jobs needed to be done, but who did them changed dramatically. Black teens were virtually removed from the job market.