This is why we need a living wage

[LockeJaw]

I don't think that is entirely true about China. Funny you mentioned picking fruit, I did that as a teen. Apples in WA state near Yakima. Back then there weren't as many illegals to exploit, so the poor blacks, whites, and native Americans did the work. The pay wasn't too horrible. I don't know how it is today, but back then you got paid by the crate. The quicker you picked, the more money you made that day. Paid in cash at the end of the day, every day. For a kid back then, I'd say it was actually good money. I worked my whole "vacation" at my Auntie's place, but I also bought my first car with those wages.

Nah. People are always going to need STUFF, manufacturing could make a huge comeback if we had the political will to create the enviroment to do so. With the current class warfare-driven politics we are practicing here, you'd probably be right.

I think that ship has sailed. As a global economy production jobs are going to remain outsourced. People still have a mindset of the industrial age when we are deep into the information age. I remember a few years back when India put out a mandate to take over as the "help desk of the world". They pretty much succeeded in that. Right now the good fields are medical, tech, and service. I may have left something out but those appear to be the main 3.

China makes more stuff at a cheaper cost than we ever could or will. I once heard this guy complaining about illegal aliens and i asked him would he volunteer to pick fruit for a dollar an hour(or whatever ungodly sum it is) in the blazing sun. Even poor people here in the states don't want to do that type of work generally.

 

[Againsheila]

I think people are taxed enough its just not spent wisely. Get rid of all illegal immigrants,stop with the war adventurism,foreign aid,etc.

Some people are taxed more than enough already. We are the land of milk and honey. The question is what is the worth of the worker bees.

If the worker bee says hello and gives you a shopping cart when you walk through the door, not much.

Now, if you think all workers should earn $X/hour, perhaps you also think my 13 year old Ford pick-up is worth as much as your new Beemer.

I think all workers should receive a living wage and wages should go up from there.

I miss when Sears had the workers that actually knew what they were doing. Back when they had a profit sharing plan and their workers worked there until retirement and actually made a decent living. They knew the store and the catalog and could help you when you needed it. Now the workers are all part time, and temporary. They can't help you with anything, they can't even help themselves.

 

[LockeJaw]

I think all workers should be paid a living wage too..but the thing is, we need to reduce inflation in order to do that. You raise the minimum wage, it just raises prices and you're back to square one. We need to scream loudly to the fed to stop printing us into poverty...ask 99% of economists...they agree.

Some people are taxed more than enough already. We are the land of milk and honey. The question is what is the worth of the worker bees.

If the worker bee says hello and gives you a shopping cart when you walk through the door, not much.

Now, if you think all workers should earn $X/hour, perhaps you also think my 13 year old Ford pick-up is worth as much as your new Beemer.

I think all workers should receive a living wage and wages should go up from there.

I miss when Sears had the workers that actually knew what they were doing. Back when they had a profit sharing plan and their workers worked there until retirement and actually made a decent living. They knew the store and the catalog and could help you when you needed it. Now the workers are all part time, and temporary. They can't help you with anything, they can't even help themselves.

 

[Uncensored2008]

I think all workers should be paid a living wage too..but the thing is, we need to reduce inflation in order to do that. You raise the minimum wage, it just raises prices and you're back to square one. We need to scream loudly to the fed to stop printing us into poverty...ask 99% of economists...they agree.

The elephant in the room, that the left will NEVER acknowledge, is that you will NEVER stabilize unskilled wages if there are open borders.

You want a living wage? Kick the illegals out and close the border. That's what really brought up the bottom in the 50's - Ike kicked the wetbacks out.

 

[RandomVariable]

If you only knew. I grew up in the ghetto. I received a crappy education and i barely made it out without going to jail or getting shot. Ask yourself this question. Why do some people have the time to get things done and you don't believe you could? We all have the same 24 hours a day. You should get this book.

Eat That Frog!: 21 Great Ways to Stop Procrastinating and Get More Done in Less Time: Brian Tracy: 9781576754221: Amazon.com: Books

So maybe that book should be a text book in high school. We are not even trying to succeed in this country. Every time someone suggests we do there are all kinds of excuses like the ones in this thread.

I dont know you but I would bet you are filled with excuses. I was too. I had a blame list of why I could not succeed. Someone sat me down and asked what I was going to do since everything else controlled my destiny. That woke me up. Find yourself a mentor. Someone that has what you want and start talking to them about their philosophy on life. I agree about the book. There are a lot of books that should be required reading in high school. Most adults need to read more too.

I had crappy schools. I was talking to the councilor one day and she said some people just fall between the cracks. Later I realized she was talking about me. Finished high by the last credit in summer school. Recruiter showed up and I was out on the first flight I could get on. Did my part for them and they paid me while I was in school. I got grants and loans but I also worked 20 hours and finished a four year degree in three and a half years, comp sci., one of the top schools too. I didn't watch TV or even listen to the radio the whole time. The person I married I met in community college. Full time job, two kids, full time school, 3.89 GPA, not U.S. citizen so she did not get any thing, nor did she ask. Pharmacy score and pretty much perfect score on the state pharmacy test (99% percentile, I don't think there is a 100%), pharmacy bar exam or whatever it is. Today you ask her she tell you no one gets nothing. They can work for it like she did and her taxes aren't for anyone's handout. If someone isn't pulling their weight on the team she fires, that's it. I know the kids from high school who never made it anywhere. The kids in the service who would have nothing else. I tutored elementary students in a poor, black district. I know there are plenty of people who could have but as a country we just don't go the extra step for them. It is all so many people need. I made it because although I didn't realized I used it my parents are really smart, both MENSA (dumb too but oh well). My wife went to just about the best school in Iran. She can just about quote the entire Koran. That's what we had. Some people don't have an ace in the hole and never expect to. Our country needs to be that ace.

(Sorry that was long and rambling but sometimes it is better if I don't overthink some things.)

 

[LockeJaw]

Yes, illegals need to get 86'd but our politicians, left & right, don't have the guts to do what is right. Gotta be "nice" after all.

 

[dblack]

Or, we could stop subsidizing Walmart with food stamps.

We don't subsidize Walmart, we never have. Union lies don't create reality just because useless idiots repeat them.

Walmart pays above MW, even for starting positions. The Obama dependency society offers food stamps to just about anyone making under $100K. Walmart has nothing to do with it. They pay an average wage for unskilled, retail sales. Greedy Unions want to rape and pillage, so they spread stupid lies - like this "living wage" one.

Whatever. I'm not interested in arguing over whether the indirect benefit of a pool of subsidized workers enjoyed by Wal-Mart and other employers is labeled as a 'subsidy' or not. I'm addressing the hypocrisy of those who call for the policies and then bitch about it when people utilize them. They want the self-satisfaction of voting for a a free lunch, but turn around and wag their fingers at companies who hire people taking advantage of it. It's idiotic. But then, we're talking about people who think minimum wage laws make sense.

 

[LockeJaw]

I think that is a fair criticism, but probably not toward uncensored...he probably doesn't support what you're claiming he does..since he is a radical libertarian and all.

Or, we could stop subsidizing Walmart with food stamps.

We don't subsidize Walmart, we never have. Union lies don't create reality just because useless idiots repeat them.

Walmart pays above MW, even for starting positions. The Obama dependency society offers food stamps to just about anyone making under $100K. Walmart has nothing to do with it. They pay an average wage for unskilled, retail sales. Greedy Unions want to rape and pillage, so they spread stupid lies - like this "living wage" one.

Whatever. I'm not interested in arguing over whether the indirect benefit of a pool of subsidized workers enjoyed by Wal-Mart and other employers is labeled as a 'subsidy' or not. I'm addressing the hypocrisy of those who call for the policies and then bitch about it when people utilize them. They want the self-satisfaction of voting for a a free lunch, but turn around and wag their fingers at companies who hire people taking advantage of it. It's idiotic. But then, we're talking about people who think minimum wage laws make sense.

 

[Mathbud1]

Has anyone decided just how much the "living wage" should be? Who decided it and based on what?

One more thing, all this talk about college is BS, not everyone needs to go to college. There are plenty of jobs out there that doesn't require a college degree and these jobs have the potential of earning someone 80 to 120 grand a year.

I wish I hadn't gone to college myself. I would be in the same job today without the student loans if I had not. In my field certifications are more respected than a degree, and you can get a certification for as little as $150. You have to self-motivate and study hard to get them, but you don't have to pay anything but the testing fee if you don't want to buy any training materials. Now I'm stuck working to get certifications after already having gone to college and gotten a degree.

I'm glad I went to college if only to learn that they teach you to work hard for other people so they can become wealthy. Once I got my degree in network engineering no one would hire me until I lied and said I had experience in the field. My certs were through Cisco. Sounds like you are in the same field?

I'm on the workstation side, but still in IT. Right now I'm trying to decide between pursuing app development or focusing on server administration.

Like you, I wasn't getting anything without experience. Luckily I was able to get my employer at the time to let me help out in IT there 1 day a week so I could put it on my resume. Now I work IT at a company with 30,000+ employees. In this field (for getting a job) experience is king, certs are a close second, and a degree isn't worth much more than the paper it is printed on.

 

[Asclepias]

So maybe that book should be a text book in high school. We are not even trying to succeed in this country. Every time someone suggests we do there are all kinds of excuses like the ones in this thread.

I dont know you but I would bet you are filled with excuses. I was too. I had a blame list of why I could not succeed. Someone sat me down and asked what I was going to do since everything else controlled my destiny. That woke me up. Find yourself a mentor. Someone that has what you want and start talking to them about their philosophy on life. I agree about the book. There are a lot of books that should be required reading in high school. Most adults need to read more too.

I had crappy schools. I was talking to the councilor one day and she said some people just fall between the cracks. Later I realized she was talking about me. Finished high by the last credit in summer school. Recruiter showed up and I was out on the first flight I could get on. Did my part for them and they paid me while I was in school. I got grants and loans but I also worked 20 hours and finished a four year degree in three and a half years, comp sci., one of the top schools too. I didn't watch TV or even listen to the radio the whole time. The person I married I met in community college. Full time job, two kids, full time school, 3.89 GPA, not U.S. citizen so she did not get any thing, nor did she ask. Pharmacy score and pretty much perfect score on the state pharmacy test (99% percentile, I don't think there is a 100%), pharmacy bar exam or whatever it is. Today you ask her she tell you no one gets nothing. They can work for it like she did and her taxes aren't for anyone's handout. If someone isn't pulling their weight on the team she fires, that's it. I know the kids from high school who never made it anywhere. The kids in the service who would have nothing else. I tutored elementary students in a poor, black district. I know there are plenty of people who could have but as a country we just don't go the extra step for them. It is all so many people need. I made it because although I didn't realized I used it my parents are really smart, both MENSA (dumb too but oh well). My wife went to just about the best school in Iran. She can just about quote the entire Koran. That's what we had. Some people don't have an ace in the hole and never expect to. Our country needs to be that ace.

(Sorry that was long and rambling but sometimes it is better if I don't overthink some things.)

I agree the country should go an extra step for people. I just dont think they should take away the incentive for people to improve themselves. What we have now is so dangerously close to everyone becoming either poor or wealthy. How are some people getting wealthy and why do some remain poor? Whats the difference? Its not racial as poor people exist in every race. its not the part of the country you come from per say. Its philosophy. Change your mindset and how you look at things and watch what happens. The country enacting things like universal healthcare is a good extra step. Raising MW so people get comfortable with being mediocre or poor is not a good extra step.

 

[dblack]

I think that is a fair criticism, but probably not toward uncensored...he probably doesn't support what you're claiming he does..since he is a radical libertarian and all.

We don't subsidize Walmart, we never have. Union lies don't create reality just because useless idiots repeat them.

Walmart pays above MW, even for starting positions. The Obama dependency society offers food stamps to just about anyone making under $100K. Walmart has nothing to do with it. They pay an average wage for unskilled, retail sales. Greedy Unions want to rape and pillage, so they spread stupid lies - like this "living wage" one.

Whatever. I'm not interested in arguing over whether the indirect benefit of a pool of subsidized workers enjoyed by Wal-Mart and other employers is labeled as a 'subsidy' or not. I'm addressing the hypocrisy of those who call for the policies and then bitch about it when people utilize them. They want the self-satisfaction of voting for a a free lunch, but turn around and wag their fingers at companies who hire people taking advantage of it. It's idiotic. But then, we're talking about people who think minimum wage laws make sense.

Oh, I know. I wasn't presuming he disagrees with me - about anything other than the technicality of whether employers are 'subsidized' by welfare. It's an indirect subsidy in any case.

 

[LockeJaw]

It is an indirect subsidy, I agree there. They do take advantage of it. A product of the corporate state, which should be done away with. The less intermingling between business & government, the better.

I think that is a fair criticism, but probably not toward uncensored...he probably doesn't support what you're claiming he does..since he is a radical libertarian and all.

Whatever. I'm not interested in arguing over whether the indirect benefit of a pool of subsidized workers enjoyed by Wal-Mart and other employers is labeled as a 'subsidy' or not. I'm addressing the hypocrisy of those who call for the policies and then bitch about it when people utilize them. They want the self-satisfaction of voting for a a free lunch, but turn around and wag their fingers at companies who hire people taking advantage of it. It's idiotic. But then, we're talking about people who think minimum wage laws make sense.

Oh, I know. I wasn't presuming he disagrees with me - about anything other than the technicality of whether employers are 'subsidized' by welfare. It's an indirect subsidy in any case.

 

[Mathbud1]

Unless you want to maximize the nanny state government, then you should establish policy that do not have the business, people & the economy relying on government.

Welfare & Entitlement Spending Way Up Under Bush & Down Under Clinton & Since Obama Took Office Because Raising Minimum Wages CUTS Government Spending.

The faster & higher you raise the minimum wage, the slower the dollar loses it's value.

I think you probably didn't mean this, but it sounds like you are recommending we raise the minimum wage to $100/hr since that is both faster and higher than I have ever heard recommended by anyone else.

Because most of the people on the government dole are working at a real job. Prices ALWAYS rise before wages because Government & Banks create money. Wages do not push or drive inflation & wage price spiral is a hoax.

You could be right. I don't know. I'm not an economist. What I do know is this: My relative who owns a small business couldn't absorb a huge increase in his employees' wages all at once. He would be borrowing money the first month he had to make the new payroll, and it would be downhill from there.

Higher minimum wages get workers off the government dole so government does not have to print more money causing inflation. Also higher minimum wages means Government does not have to guarantee bank home or business loans causing inflation because underpaid workers default at high rates.

Raising Wages increases employment & CUTS Government Spending. Socialism is when employers make government tax payers pay for their workers so they can drive others out of business & pocket everyone else's wealth. If you don't like the minimum wage then pass a law banning employment of someone on the government dole. Because I already pay my workers & should not have to keep subsidizing yours, harming my business. Employment rises as wages & minimum wages rise.

Again, if there is no negative impact to raising wages why do we stop at a merely "living wage." Let's bump everyone up to a "partying wage" and really get the economy rocking.

 

[Rozman]

What the hell does that mean anyway....
A living wage?

Can you guys define it so we can debate it!

 

[Againsheila]

I think all workers should be paid a living wage too..but the thing is, we need to reduce inflation in order to do that. You raise the minimum wage, it just raises prices and you're back to square one. We need to scream loudly to the fed to stop printing us into poverty...ask 99% of economists...they agree.

The elephant in the room, that the left will NEVER acknowledge, is that you will NEVER stabilize unskilled wages if there are open borders.

You want a living wage? Kick the illegals out and close the border. That's what really brought up the bottom in the 50's - Ike kicked the wetbacks out.

We do need to kick out the illegals and reduce legal immigration until our lowest paid jobs do pay a living wage and every American citizen who wants a job has a job.

 

[dblack]

Unless you want to maximize the nanny state government, then you should establish policy that do not have the business, people & the economy relying on government.

Welfare & Entitlement Spending Way Up Under Bush & Down Under Clinton & Since Obama Took Office Because Raising Minimum Wages CUTS Government Spending.

The faster & higher you raise the minimum wage, the slower the dollar loses it's value.

I think you probably didn't mean this, but it sounds like you are recommending we raise the minimum wage to $100/hr since that is both faster and higher than I have ever heard recommended by anyone else.

Because most of the people on the government dole are working at a real job. Prices ALWAYS rise before wages because Government & Banks create money. Wages do not push or drive inflation & wage price spiral is a hoax.

You could be right. I don't know. I'm not an economist. What I do know is this: My relative who owns a small business couldn't absorb a huge increase in his employees' wages all at once. He would be borrowing money the first month he had to make the new payroll, and it would be downhill from there.

Higher minimum wages get workers off the government dole so government does not have to print more money causing inflation. Also higher minimum wages means Government does not have to guarantee bank home or business loans causing inflation because underpaid workers default at high rates.

Raising Wages increases employment & CUTS Government Spending. Socialism is when employers make government tax payers pay for their workers so they can drive others out of business & pocket everyone else's wealth. If you don't like the minimum wage then pass a law banning employment of someone on the government dole. Because I already pay my workers & should not have to keep subsidizing yours, harming my business. Employment rises as wages & minimum wages rise.

Again, if there is no negative impact to raising wages why do we stop at a merely "living wage." Let's bump everyone up to a "partying wage" and really get the economy rocking.

They'll never touch that one. It shorts out their neurons or something.

 

[alan1]

I (let's just say) am 23, have a high school education, made good grades, and a kid. You think I should open my own store?

Bill Gates did.
Steve Jobs did.
Frank Lloyd Wright did.
Mark Zuckerberg did.

Every one of them a college dropout.
Just sayin'

Ever had a sociology class?

No.
I studied things that actually are beneficial to my success in real world situations. Provided I don't want to be a teacher of sociology.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Would you rather have Wal-mart pay the employ $15 an hour or the tax payer pay for food stamps?

Neither one. Those people should stop stealing jobs from teenagers and old people and get a job that will support a family. But that would require effort,so I dont expect these sad sacks will do it. To bad for them...and their families.

These "sad sacks" are 47% of the population. (or somewhere about there)

You sure about that???
And "somewhere about there" aint gonna cut it.

And if we did have 47% of this country working min wage we're already fucked!!! (which we dont) But keep trying...you'll get us there eventually.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

If you only knew. I grew up in the ghetto. I received a crappy education and i barely made it out without going to jail or getting shot. Ask yourself this question. Why do some people have the time to get things done and you don't believe you could? We all have the same 24 hours a day. You should get this book.

Eat That Frog!: 21 Great Ways to Stop Procrastinating and Get More Done in Less Time: Brian Tracy: 9781576754221: Amazon.com: Books

So maybe that book should be a text book in high school. We are not even trying to succeed in this country. Every time someone suggests we do there are all kinds of excuses like the ones in this thread.

I dont know you but I would bet you are filled with excuses. I was too. I had a blame list of why I could not succeed. Someone sat me down and asked what I was going to do since everything else controlled my destiny. That woke me up. Find yourself a mentor. Someone that has what you want and start talking to them about their philosophy on life. I agree about the book. There are a lot of books that should be required reading in high school. Most adults need to read more too.

Never thought I would say this but......I agree with you,and we both have been down the same road.

 

[alan1]

So 3 who hate the poor and want to force them to go to college or school of some kind to rack up more debt instead of letting them earn a decent wage at a job they enjoy.

You dont need to go to college to get a decent paying job. All you have to do is apply yourself. The wife and I didnt go to college and I retired at 46,she'll retire in two more years at 47.
If you dont aspire to be more then a stocker at the grocery store why in the hell should I subsidize that choice? Besides your stealing jobs from teenagers and old people. Have you no shame?

When minimum wage was created it could sustain a family of 3 over the poverty wage. You really don't think people work less hard today than they did then do you?

It's not about whether they work hard, it's about the value they produce to their employer.
If Bob works his ass off as a cashier at McDonalds, it doesn't matter how hard he works, he can't make a customer order any faster.

You know what is likely going to happen here? Companies like McDonalds are going to get tired of the people like the cashiers protesting for wages beyond their worth/value and then put in self-service kiosks for ordering. The cashier job will be eliminated and Bob will no longer have a job. Panera Bread is already moving that direction, grocery stores have already put in self check-out.
I suggest that Bob learns how to work on the machines that are going to replace his job if he wants to be employed.