This is why we need a living wage

[Asclepias]

So what you're saying is school was unpleasant for you so you are stuck flipping burgers and you think you are owed more money to do it?
Sorry, Charlie. Sitting right next to you in high school was another guy who hated school as well, but instead of dropping out, he sucked it up and graduated and got into a decent college. Guess what? He's making 10 times what you're making because he made himself more valuable to an employer.

Do you have any idea how many college educated people are out there working minimum wage jobs with loans up to the hilt? Our well paying jobs have left the country. Most of those working minimum wage are now adults.

Jobs have left the country because labor costs are too high due to minimum wage laws and labor unions.

Want those jobs back in the US? It would be easy enough to do.

The jobs are never coming back. People better wake up and adjust.

 

[Asclepias]

I just really don't understand why folks why people think low wages are OK.
I would guess that most folks posting here are Middle Class. When wages go up at the bottom, typically it spreads to the next group, which would be the Middle Class.
While the Middle Class in America has seen flat/stagnant wage growth (in Real Dollars), other industrial nation's Middle Class has seen wage growth. Canada recently passed the US as having t
the best pad Middle Class and other countries are poised to do the same.
This shouldn't be a partisan subject. Wages for the working Middle Class have been stagnant under both Republican and Democratic presidents and congresses.
I've posted this before, working Americans didn't cause flat wages, the didn't ship jobs offshore and they didn't bring in automation into the workplace. They didn't benefit at all. But someone reaped the rewards of those policies.
A weak Middle Class symbolizes a weak economic environment. While the US spins it's wheels economically, other countries are moving forward.

They are ok because the whole concept of wages is getting paid for the worth you provide in the time you provide it to the company paying you. If your skill set is only worth $10 to them you have to either accept it or decide you are worth more by acquiring the skills to get paid more. Even when I was minimum wage I knew that and accepted it.

American worker productivity has climbed while wage growth has been stagnant. Profits have climbed while wages growth has been stagnate. It's been happening for three decades.
One doesn't have to wonder why the US Middle class has been weakened.

You are missing the point though. Its sounds cold but why should the company give you their profits when your skill set is probably worth less than what they are require ed to pay you? Good companies do profit share sometimes but why do you assume it should be mandatory? They put up the money to get started and took the risk. Why should you profit when you only bagged groceries?

 

[Uncensored2008]

Or, we could stop subsidizing Walmart with food stamps.

We don't subsidize Walmart, we never have. Union lies don't create reality just because useless idiots repeat them.

Walmart pays above MW, even for starting positions. The Obama dependency society offers food stamps to just about anyone making under $100K. Walmart has nothing to do with it. They pay an average wage for unskilled, retail sales. Greedy Unions want to rape and pillage, so they spread stupid lies - like this "living wage" one.

 

[LockeJaw]

Do you have any idea how many college educated people are out there working minimum wage jobs with loans up to the hilt? Our well paying jobs have left the country. Most of those working minimum wage are now adults.

Jobs have left the country because labor costs are too high due to minimum wage laws and labor unions.

Want those jobs back in the US? It would be easy enough to do.

The jobs are never coming back. People better wake up and adjust.

I think that is a fair prediction since those businesses are getting sweetheart deals in the countries they currently operate. That doesn't mean we cannot create new production jobs here to outdo them. We need more economic freedom in this country if we ever want it to be what it once was.

 

[Pennywise]

Where does the line form for liberals who want to donate to the federal government because they feel they aren't taxed enough?

Right behind Michael Moore's enormous flabby ass cheeks. Oh wait, there's no room. I guess they're off the hook.

 

[RandomVariable]

Should the MW be done away with and whatever business and employees work out for pay is what it is?

You know, that is one of those questions that really trouble me. My mind says, "Yep", but the hairs on the back of my neck say "Shiver me timbers" to even think about such a system and how that would play out in small towns. I think it would work better in New York City than it would in Apple Creek wherever.

Back to Walmart hating for a sec--the Earned Income Tax Credit has a positive effect on employment for single moms and the working poor. (Policy Basics: The Earned Income Tax Credit ? Center on Budget and Policy Priorities) It bothers me to see people just trash companies that are assisting the people who otherwise have no job, get some work. Walmart, love them or hate them, really does help people work a schedule that works for them, and people I knew who worked there and moved elsewhere had no problem continuing to work for Walmart in their new location.

Now back to the MW, I saw this suggested somewhere else and I am still thinking about it-- perhaps the minimum wage should be based on the cost of living in the cheapest metropolitan areas in the country and let supply-demand drive it up from there as localized wages in places with higher cost of living. A small city then can compete better to lure in businesses/foreign investments and then let supply-demand in labor drive wages up from there. It is one of those ideas still simmering in my mind right now before I take a definitive position one way or the other.

--Sam

Your first point is one that just can't be ignored. Without some kind of minimum wage it would be a race to the bottom for pay.

I don't know the full story of Wal-mart. I know they have a really bad reputation but I also know someone, who I know very well, was quite happy with her job at Wal-mart. Although when she described it to me I thought is was very questionable that it was a good deal. The earned income tax credit does make a huge difference to many people.

The cost of living adjustment I don't think would be necessary if there was a complete system in place. Also someone making a raised minimum wage in a poor area helps out the community much more than someone making a raised minimum wage in a middle class community. A complete system would insure that people did not go hungry or live in abject poverty in this country. We can do it but we would have to arrange our priories around quality of life rather than capitalism at all costs.

 

[Asclepias]

Jobs have left the country because labor costs are too high due to minimum wage laws and labor unions.

Want those jobs back in the US? It would be easy enough to do.

The jobs are never coming back. People better wake up and adjust.

I think that is a fair prediction since those businesses are getting sweetheart deals in the countries they currently operate. That doesn't mean we cannot create new production jobs here to outdo them. We need more economic freedom in this country if we ever want it to be what it once was.

I think that ship has sailed. As a global economy production jobs are going to remain outsourced. People still have a mindset of the industrial age when we are deep into the information age. I remember a few years back when India put out a mandate to take over as the "help desk of the world". They pretty much succeeded in that. Right now the good fields are medical, tech, and service. I may have left something out but those appear to be the main 3.

 

[RandomVariable]

Is being a greeter worth $15 dollars an hour?

Would you rather have Wal-mart pay the employ $15 an hour or the tax payer pay for food stamps?

Neither to be honest. I dont want the cost passed on to me by Walmart raising prices like McDonalds is doing. I worked 2 jobs and went to school to make ends meet. Other people can do the same.

Some people need to spend a lot more time doing their homework than you did. I expect you had a good education before starting at that school.

 

[RandomVariable]

Is being a greeter worth $15 dollars an hour?

Would you rather have Wal-mart pay the employ $15 an hour or the tax payer pay for food stamps?

Neither one. Those people should stop stealing jobs from teenagers and old people and get a job that will support a family. But that would require effort,so I dont expect these sad sacks will do it. To bad for them...and their families.

These "sad sacks" are 47% of the population. (or somewhere about there)

 

[Asclepias]

Would you rather have Wal-mart pay the employ $15 an hour or the tax payer pay for food stamps?

Neither to be honest. I dont want the cost passed on to me by Walmart raising prices like McDonalds is doing. I worked 2 jobs and went to school to make ends meet. Other people can do the same.

Some people need to spend a lot more time doing their homework than you did. I expect you had a good education before starting at that school.

If you only knew. I grew up in the ghetto. I received a crappy education and i barely made it out without going to jail or getting shot. Ask yourself this question. Why do some people have the time to get things done and you don't believe you could? We all have the same 24 hours a day. You should get this book.

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Eat-That-Frog-Great-Procrastinating/dp/1576754227"]http://www.amazon.com/Eat-That-Frog-Great-Procrastinating/dp/1576754227[/ame]

 

[Uncensored2008]

Do you have any idea how many college educated people are out there working minimum wage jobs with loans up to the hilt? Our well paying jobs have left the country. Most of those working minimum wage are now adults.

Let me count up the "Ethnic Studies" degrees, and I'll get back to you with a number....

 

[RandomVariable]

If the correct answer is really yes!

And I live in a very rural, poor part of the country. Still?

I would suggest moving. If you dont want to do that then you have no one to blame but yourself if you're a failure.

Even is it is nothing out of your pockets you still hate these "failures". Poor is the new Jew.

 

[RandomVariable]

Neither to be honest. I dont want the cost passed on to me by Walmart raising prices like McDonalds is doing. I worked 2 jobs and went to school to make ends meet. Other people can do the same.

Some people need to spend a lot more time doing their homework than you did. I expect you had a good education before starting at that school.

If you only knew. I grew up in the ghetto. I received a crappy education and i barely made it out without going to jail or getting shot. Ask yourself this question. Why do some people have the time to get things done and you don't believe you could? We all have the same 24 hours a day. You should get this book.

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Eat-That-Frog-Great-Procrastinating/dp/1576754227"]http://www.amazon.com/Eat-That-Frog-Great-Procrastinating/dp/1576754227[/ame]

So maybe that book should be a text book in high school. We are not even trying to succeed in this country. Every time someone suggests we do there are all kinds of excuses like the ones in this thread.

 

[LockeJaw]

Nah. People are always going to need STUFF, manufacturing could make a huge comeback if we had the political will to create the enviroment to do so. With the current class warfare-driven politics we are practicing here, you'd probably be right.

The jobs are never coming back. People better wake up and adjust.

I think that is a fair prediction since those businesses are getting sweetheart deals in the countries they currently operate. That doesn't mean we cannot create new production jobs here to outdo them. We need more economic freedom in this country if we ever want it to be what it once was.

I think that ship has sailed. As a global economy production jobs are going to remain outsourced. People still have a mindset of the industrial age when we are deep into the information age. I remember a few years back when India put out a mandate to take over as the "help desk of the world". They pretty much succeeded in that. Right now the good fields are medical, tech, and service. I may have left something out but those appear to be the main 3.

 

[Asclepias]

Some people need to spend a lot more time doing their homework than you did. I expect you had a good education before starting at that school.

If you only knew. I grew up in the ghetto. I received a crappy education and i barely made it out without going to jail or getting shot. Ask yourself this question. Why do some people have the time to get things done and you don't believe you could? We all have the same 24 hours a day. You should get this book.

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Eat-That-Frog-Great-Procrastinating/dp/1576754227"]http://www.amazon.com/Eat-That-Frog-Great-Procrastinating/dp/1576754227[/ame]

So maybe that book should be a text book in high school. We are not even trying to succeed in this country. Every time someone suggests we do there are all kinds of excuses like the ones in this thread.

I dont know you but I would bet you are filled with excuses. I was too. I had a blame list of why I could not succeed. Someone sat me down and asked what I was going to do since everything else controlled my destiny. That woke me up. Find yourself a mentor. Someone that has what you want and start talking to them about their philosophy on life. I agree about the book. There are a lot of books that should be required reading in high school. Most adults need to read more too.

 

[Uncensored2008]

I'm glad I went to college if only to learn that they teach you to work hard for other people so they can become wealthy. Once I got my degree in network engineering no one would hire me until I lied and said I had experience in the field. My certs were through Cisco. Sounds like you are in the same field?

Interesting.

I went a different path. I was programming for years, then went back and got first the bachelors, then the masters - mainly because employers paid for them.

I certed as an MCSE under Windows 2003 - and never updated, because I don't freelance and never found a need for it. My understanding was that CCIE's could name their price. Back in the bad old days when I ran Cisco stuff, I always had to hire someone to come in and program the Pix and Routers because I despise IOS. Went off to HP switches and routers, and a Palo Alto firewall, so I no longer worry about it.

 

[sameech]

Your first point is one that just can't be ignored. Without some kind of minimum wage it would be a race to the bottom for pay.

I don't know the full story of Wal-mart. I know they have a really bad reputation but I also know someone, who I know very well, was quite happy with her job at Wal-mart. Although when she described it to me I thought is was very questionable that it was a good deal. The earned income tax credit does make a huge difference to many people.

The cost of living adjustment I don't think would be necessary if there was a complete system in place. Also someone making a raised minimum wage in a poor area helps out the community much more than someone making a raised minimum wage in a middle class community. A complete system would insure that people did not go hungry or live in abject poverty in this country. We can do it but we would have to arrange our priories around quality of life rather than capitalism at all costs.

It depends on where one lives, which is the problem with racing to the top. Sure $10.10 tomorrow gives poor people in poor areas more money, but it also gives businesses in poor areas less money unless they fire some people. Businesses are very expensive to run. The commercial rates on everything from utilities, telephones, cable, internet etc are typically much higher than what someone pays as a residential customer. Most of the small business owners I know really have very little margin for added costs. Something will be cut, and it will be the worker before it is the owner.

 

[Asclepias]

Nah. People are always going to need STUFF, manufacturing could make a huge comeback if we had the political will to create the enviroment to do so. With the current class warfare-driven politics we are practicing here, you'd probably be right.

I think that is a fair prediction since those businesses are getting sweetheart deals in the countries they currently operate. That doesn't mean we cannot create new production jobs here to outdo them. We need more economic freedom in this country if we ever want it to be what it once was.

I think that ship has sailed. As a global economy production jobs are going to remain outsourced. People still have a mindset of the industrial age when we are deep into the information age. I remember a few years back when India put out a mandate to take over as the "help desk of the world". They pretty much succeeded in that. Right now the good fields are medical, tech, and service. I may have left something out but those appear to be the main 3.

China makes more stuff at a cheaper cost than we ever could or will. I once heard this guy complaining about illegal aliens and i asked him would he volunteer to pick fruit for a dollar an hour(or whatever ungodly sum it is) in the blazing sun. Even poor people here in the states don't want to do that type of work generally.

 

[Asclepias]

I'm glad I went to college if only to learn that they teach you to work hard for other people so they can become wealthy. Once I got my degree in network engineering no one would hire me until I lied and said I had experience in the field. My certs were through Cisco. Sounds like you are in the same field?

Interesting.

I went a different path. I was programming for years, then went back and got first the bachelors, then the masters - mainly because employers paid for them.

I certed as an MCSE under Windows 2003 - and never updated, because I don't freelance and never found a need for it. My understanding was that CCIE's could name their price. Back in the bad old days when I ran Cisco stuff, I always had to hire someone to come in and program the Pix and Routers because I despise IOS. Went off to HP switches and routers, and a Palo Alto firewall, so I no longer worry about it.

MCSE was my first cert NT 4. Never used it. I eventually got my CCNP and I was able to name my price where ever I went. CCIE's are the cream of the crop for good reason. The time an effort spent getting that cert was something I was not going to do. At the end of the day I knew that no matter how good I was at my job, once I stopped working my paychecks would stop. Thats why I started my own business.

 

[Uncensored2008]

jobs have left the country because labor costs are too high due to minimum wage laws and labor unions.

Want those jobs back in the us? It would be easy enough to do.

the jobs are never coming back. People better wake up and adjust.

i think that is a fair prediction since those businesses are getting sweetheart deals in the countries they currently operate. That doesn't mean we cannot create new production jobs here to outdo them. We need more economic freedom in this country if we ever want it to be what it once was.

lol