This time socialism will work, ooops. No this time it will work, ooops. No no this time it will work, ooops.

[Dragonlady]

Yep. Too bad the unions sold out.

You might wanna rethink that. If you had the opportunity, would you like to explain, to an actual slave, how Amazon workers have it just as bad?

The company towns thing was abysmal - and, quite rightly, we did away with them. The idea was to build as much dependency on employment as possible - to make it so the employee couldn't leave without serious hardship. You know, like we've done with health insurance.

Nowhere in my post, did I mention "Amazon". You said that companies would never leverage power and treat workers like slaves, and I pointed out to you that such behaviour happened during the Guilded Age. In the age of "Company Towns", and "Company stores" the workers were basically captives of the company. The Company even owned the homes the workers "rented".

The current employment laws and standards weren't designed to cater to "special interests", they were designed to protect workers from abuses already being inflicted on them by virtue of the power their employers have over their lives.

 

[bripat9643]

I don't think it is a post hoc, ego propter fallacy because it is not trying to prove something based just on sequential correlation, but the fact ALL democratic societies apparently choose socialism when given the chance.
When given the opportunity, people have always chosen socialism.
The only time the people do not pick socialism is when they are not allowed to pick at all.

Whether it 'A' occurs after 'B' or at the same time as 'B,' it's still post hoc, ergo propter hoc.

 

[bripat9643]

No you have industry regulation for all companies engaged in that production.

Safety requirements which have saved countless lives.

In other words, government made the decisions, not the so-called "owners."

 

[bripat9643]

Our country then had that bathtub size government you assholes want to return too.

That's exactly right.

 

[bripat9643]

No you have industry regulation for all companies engaged in that production.

Safety requirements which have saved countless lives.

Deaths related to work or conumser safety were declining for 100 years before those laws passed.

 

[bripat9643]

Rising prices on core items is measured in the inflation rate. It does not matter what causes them to rise.

Do laws against murder dictate behavior? Or speeding?

It doesn't matter if we know what causes inflation? Does the law of gravity dictate what happens when you drop an object from a height?

What a fucking moron.

 

[Rigby5]

LOL - no, they wouldn't. This is a silly leftist fantasy.

Also - please stop equivocating on the word "regulation". Laws that protect our rights are just and proper. Laws that dictate behavior, to placate special interests, aren't.. Which are you talking about?

Wrong, slavery has always been the result of unregulated wealthy elite and industry.
The industrial revolution put cottage industries out of business, causing huge suffering, starvation, and employer abuse.
It is notorious.
It was what Charles Dickens was writing about.
Industry has always devolved into slavery unless strictly regulated to prevent it.
The US had the same abuses until Teddy Roosevelt passed anti trust legislation.
Those anti trust regulations were to protect the rights of the workers, so wee just and proper.
There are no anti trust or labor laws that dictate behavior.
Socialism it is the interests of everyone.
For example, if there is oil under federal land, why sell it for pennies on the dollar, and instead just create a federal oil company?

 

[Rigby5]

Deaths related to work or conumser safety were declining for 100 years before those laws passed.

No, if not for labor laws, companies would still be forcing workers to an early death like they did with asbestos workers.
The same is still happening with glyphosates.
We need even more regulation, not less.
Dangers are not just less obvious.

 

[22lcidw]

Wrong, slavery has always been the result of unregulated wealthy elite and industry.
The industrial revolution put cottage industries out of business, causing huge suffering, starvation, and employer abuse.
It is notorious.
It was what Charles Dickens was writing about.
Industry has always devolved into slavery unless strictly regulated to prevent it.
The US had the same abuses until Teddy Roosevelt passed anti trust legislation.
Those anti trust regulations were to protect the rights of the workers, so wee just and proper.
There are no anti trust or labor laws that dictate behavior.
Socialism it is the interests of everyone.
For example, if there is oil under federal land, why sell it for pennies on the dollar, and instead just create a federal oil company?

By your way oif thinking, would not many of the people working in China in factories earning not much compared to Americans but having much more then they had before be slaves for us at this point. Well until China becomes self powered by its own industries and does not need us as much.

 

[Rigby5]

It doesn't matter if we know what causes inflation? Does the law of gravity dictate what happens when you drop an object from a height?

What a fucking moron.

But just as no one can ignore the law of gravity, it is always going to be true that owners try to maximize profits, and they will do so at the risk of workers.

 

[Rigby5]

By your way oif thinking, would not many of the people working in China in factories earning not much compared to Americans but having much more then they had before be slaves for us at this point. Well until China becomes self powered by its own industries and does not need us as much.

Yes, offshore workers have even less protection, so are being treated even worse than our labor.
Which is why Trump was right to tariff until they improve offshore worker conditions.

 

[Rigby5]

The Founders did not require the government to provide libraries. It also did not require the government to provide a postal system.

Public schools hardly existed until the second half of the 20th century. Most fire departments were volunteer until abut the same time.government build roads didn't exist until about the 1940s. Mpst of the programs you listed didn't exist until the mid 2000s/

I agree those are all socialist. However, you committed the post hoc, ergo propter hoc fallacy.

Yes, the post office system was in the Constitution.
{...
Article I, Section 8, Clause 7 of the United States Constitution, known as the Postal Clause or the Postal Power, empowers Congress "To establish Post Offices and Post Roads." The Post Office has the constitutional authority to designate mail routes.
...}

 

[bripat9643]

Whether YOU approve of any of that is completely irrelevant. The rest of the nation voted for those policies, and they continue to vote for them in every election where social programs are on the ballot - like 2012, 2018, and 2020 when health care has been on the ballot - Democrats have won every single one of those elections.

So it doesn't matter whether they actually work? When are we going to go back to burning witches?

You really are a fucking moron.

 

[bripat9643]

Yes, the post office system was in the Constitution.
{...
Article I, Section 8, Clause 7 of the United States Constitution, known as the Postal Clause or the Postal Power, empowers Congress "To establish Post Offices and Post Roads." The Post Office has the constitutional authority to designate mail routes.
...}

Nope. it gives government the authority to estalishes them if it desires. It doesn't force government to establish them.

 

[otto105]

In other words, government made the decisions, not the so-called "owners."

Yeah, industry standards decisions based on safety and health issues.

Not ownership ones.

When do you offer an example of those?

 

[Rigby5]

So it doesn't matter whether they actually work? When are we going to go back to burning witches?

You really are a fucking moron.

But socialism always does work better.
Almost everything we have, like the internet, NASA, highways, the FAA, etc. are the result of socialism.

 

[bripat9643]

No, if not for labor laws, companies would still be forcing workers to an early death like they did with asbestos workers.
The same is still happening with glyphosates.
We need even more regulation, not less.
Dangers are not just less obvious.

Workplace fatalities were declining faster before OSHA than after

 

[bripat9643]

Yeah, industry standards decisions based on safety and health issues.

Not ownership ones.

When do you offer an example of those?

They are all ownership decisions moron. An "industry standard decision" is one that government imposes on everyone.

 

[Rigby5]

Workplace fatalities were declining faster before OSHA than after

Except that OSHA is not the main origin of safety, but just put it all together.
For example, here is the history of mine safety laws, which saved thousands of lives.

{...

EARLY LAWS: INCREMENTAL IMPROVEMENTS IN SAFETY AND HEALTH LEGISLATION​

1891 – First Federal mine safety statute passed
1910 – Bureau of Mines created
1941 – Right of entry granted to Federal inspectors
1947 – Safety standards for bituminous coal and lignite mines created
1952 – Federal Coal Mine Safety Act passed
1961 – Study authorized to examine injuries and hazards in metal/nonmetal mines
1966 – Federal Coal Mine Safety Act extended to include all underground coal mines
1966 – Federal Metal and Nonmetallic Mine Safety Act passed

THE COAL ACT: MAJOR ADVANCES IN HEALTH AND SAFETY LEGISLATION​

1969 – Federal Coal Mine Health and Safety Act passed
1973 – Mining Enforcement and Safety Administration (MESA) created

THE MINE ACT: CREATION OF MSHA​

1977 – Mine Safety and Health Administration (MSHA) created
2006 – Mine Improvement and New Emergency Response Act (MINER Act) passed

RELATED LINKS​

• Historical Data on U.S. Mine Disasters
• Mine Disaster: 1968 Farmington Exp
  ...} History | Mine Safety and Health Administration (MSHA)
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

 

[bripat9643]

But just as no one can ignore the law of gravity, it is always going to be true that owners try to maximize profits, and they will do so at the risk of workers.

They won't do it at the risk of huge lawsuits, moron.