Thought for the day

[hobelim]

I suggest that you examine whether the hatred you perceive is actually the result of being convicted by your own conscience and an inkling of the perception of what it is to be under the condemnation of God. I have no hatred towards you or anyone else for that matter and I fail to understand how you would stoop so low as to accuse me of hatred when I have merely been attempting to reason with you about the subjects of the law, the nature of idolatry, and the resurrection of the dead.

So what should a good Catholic do? Go to confession and then violate the first command and pray to God in front of a statue of a tortured and dying Jesus and, to add insult to injury, worship and eat a lifeless material object made by human hands for spiritual life, to show God just how sorry you are for your sins?

seriously. WTF.

Read what I said again. I did not say, and would not say or even suggest you hate the Catholic Church. However, it is clear that you have bought into the ignorance of what constitutes an idol and what does not--which was presented by those who in the past did hate Catholicism. The more we delve into the history of those who directed past hate towards the Catholic Church, the more we see the political power struggle that was taking place in those times.

Those who accuse Catholics of worshiping statues/idols are oddly quiet about the carvings and engravings on the Ark of the Covenant. They are oddly quiet about the direction to worship God in totality with body, mind, and soul--and to include God in all aspects of our life. When you heard the criticism of Catholics and statues, did you even think to ask about the Ark of the Covenant, the first housing we know of for the presence of God?

No commandment is being violated as Catholics do not worship idols. Catholics do not identify art as God. We do honor the lives and the presence of God in historical moments.

Even if one forgets about the statues, the rosary beads, scapulars, lighting candles, sacrificial alters, Eucharistic worship and pagan eating of the God ceremony, there is the entire coequal trinity thing which does not correspond to any real living being ever in existence and contradicts everything taught by God through the law and the prophets including what Jesus taught about the oneness and unequaled nature of God and the consequences for setting aside the Law and teaching others that they will not die if they do the same.

How predictable and ironic for one whose religious dedication is to sin to point to the artwork adorning the ark of the covenant where the book of the law was kept which has nothing whatever to do with what Catholics do as justification for their own sin of desecrating the teachings of Christ and perjury in the name of God.

God is present in his words. If you do not have a correct understanding of the words received by Jesus like manna from heaven and given for the life of the world he and that life is most certainly not present in you, however much time you spend on your knees in church munching on god crackers..

And of course there was always political power struggle involving conflicting religions who each claim moral authority over everyone else in order to usurp places of authority from where they can impose laws and customs on the population that reflect their own particular perverse view of the world and criminalize all opponents while keeping the 'faithful' in a perpetual stupor by the power of death consequent to a delusional religious dedication to sin on a daily basis, by praying to and seeking spiritual life from a false god, especially on Sundays and every other high holiday..





.

 

[Meriweather]

Even if one forgets about the statues, the rosary beads, scapulars, lighting candles, sacrificial alters, Eucharistic worship and pagan eating of the God ceremony, there is the entire coequal trinity thing which does not correspond to any real living being ever in existence and contradicts everything taught by God through the law and the prophets including what Jesus taught about the oneness and unequaled nature of God and the consequences for setting aside the Law and teaching others that they will not die if they do the same.

How predictable and ironic for one whose religious dedication is to sin to point to the artwork adorning the ark of the covenant where the book of the law was kept which has nothing whatever to do with what Catholics do as justification for their own sin of desecrating the teachings of Christ and perjury in the name of God.

God is present in his words. If you do not have a correct understanding of the words received by Jesus like manna from heaven and given for the life of the world he and that life is most certainly not present in you, however much time you spend on your knees in church munching on god crackers..

And of course there was always political power struggle involving conflicting religions who each claim moral authority over everyone else in order to usurp places of authority from where they can impose laws and customs on the population that reflect their own particular perverse view of the world and criminalize all opponents while keeping the 'faithful' in a perpetual stupor by the power of death consequent to a delusional religious dedication to sin on a daily basis, by praying to and seeking spiritual life from a false god, especially on Sundays and every other high holiday...

It appears there are many teachings in the Catholic faith--all based on the Bible and founded by Christ that you either misinterpret or misunderstand. These misinterpretations and misunderstandings of Christ and his teachings by Protestants and others rose five hundred years ago, and unfortunately some are still being repeated today.

 

[Mindlight]

I use Christ first. For example, notice I began with what Christ said about beatings. Then you asked for scripture supporting eternal life for non-Christians. I tend to be somewhat of a stickler on context.

Christ is not only found in the gospels and Pauls letters. He sent the flood, sanctioned the prophet Jonah preaching repent or perish to Israels arch enemy and the prophet Jeremiahs warnings to his own people of their immanent destruction. It was Christ that sanctioned the genocide in Canaan. The judgments of Revelation are also his. That he first offers us his love is as clear as his making abundantly clear what rejection means.

There are no scriptures that support the salvation of anyone except through Christ.

You still have not accepted the biblical view that the godless will go to hell.

Notice Jesus' "strong" words were for people who knew him and then rejected him. He did not address atheists or pagans, but noted his particular mission was among the Jews--particularly the lost sheep of Judaism--those too poor to observe the entire law.

Even if we limit ourselves to the gospels for this discussion that is not entirely accurate. The Pharisees did not know Jesus. They thought they knew better than Him and he expressed the deepest contempt for them. Todays Pharisees are not Necessarily Christians. There are a whole range of smug self righteous people out there who think they know better than God and love to prade the apparent authority they have in communities. Whether they are humanist Jews or religious catholics or even some conservative Evangelicals.

Jesus' strongest words were/are for believers who did not/do not give their all.

He rebuked Peter very strongly - get thee behind me Satan. So true. The lord disciplines those he loves.

You are correct: For me our God of love eclipses the angry God that some see. This does not mean love precludes justice, because clearly it does not. It is true that I do not see the Gospel message as being, "God is angry with you..." but rather, "God loves us." Too often those who preach an angry God have God angry with others, but never themselves.

No Christian preaches an angry God. We approach people with Good News. But when you do Evangelism and the man tells you he regards the tract in your hand as toilet paper you can do one of 2 things. You can walk away with the tract and wipe the dust off your feet. Or you can warn him of the consequences of rejecting Christ. God has gifted me to do either and i have seen the fruit of that as positive.

Grin. Never. However, I am often accused of ignoring grace entirely and focusing too much on choice and works.

You sound Catholic. But a choice has at least 2 alternatives. Are you telling me you never suggest the consequences of rejection.

No. Universalists believe everyone--eventually even Satan and demons--will be in the kingdom of heaven. They see God's plan as "saving" everyone. I see God's plan as more of a choice. We can choose to join Him and His ways--or we can reject Him and His ways. Some people truly do seem to thrive on evil and hate; serving self and selfishness over serving others and being selfless.

I believe those who choose to live outside the presence of God will know His love and His goodness--but reject it.

Agreed

I do not believe that good people who do not know God (or do not know Him through the "correct" faith) will be condemned to hell.

Only God is good the rest of us sin. But maybe you are familiar with Karl rayners idea of the anonymous Christian. I have met Muslims who I have wondered might fall in that category but I cannot recall a single atheist who I could say really qualifies. Except maybe someone like Socrates who rejected the city gods as false. That was an honest reaction and that kind of atheism is Ok. If an atheist is rejecting a straw man Christianity rather than the real thing maybe there is hope for him. But most of them are not that deep or worse simply copies of other atheists who merely cut and paste the ideas of others but cannot think for themselves.

Some of the parables Jesus told referenced purgatory (a purification process, or a paying of outstanding debts). Nor can sinful man bear the presence of God. For these two reasons, and also other scriptures that speak of purification after death, it appears that a purification process (purgatory) after death is indeed a reality. Some feel part of the purification process is being freed from the body which is weak and tempts us into sin. But the heart/soul is also responsible for some sins, and a release from the body isn't going to remove sins that stem from heart and soul--hence purification, purging...Purgatory.

Or we get resurrected with a glorified body fit for life with God or eternity in the lake of fire. I think you need the apocryphal books to prove the doctrine of purgatory as it is not clear from scripture alone. Sounds like you use the Catholic Canon.

Please understand I condemn no individual myself but I do consider warning people and dismantling thoughts that mock Christ as an act of devotion to God and of love to others. It is not loving to pretend that all is fine with an unsaved man, to let their thoughts stand so that they deceive others also and to present a choice to someone who has no cognitive understanding of what rejection means and has already trained his mind to ignore the basic gospel presentation without explanation.

 

[Meriweather]

No Christian preaches an angry God. We approach people with Good News. But when you do Evangelism and the man tells you he regards the tract in your hand as toilet paper you can do one of 2 things. You can walk away with the tract and wipe the dust off your feet. Or you can warn him of the consequences of rejecting Christ. God has gifted me to do either and i have seen the fruit of that as positive.

Telling people who are not doing evil they are in danger of hell can give people the impression of an angry God. However, people comparing your tract to toilet paper are not the epitome of love, either. In several places scripture tells us everyone will be judged according to their deeds. This is why I believe the evil, not the non-believer, will be denied the presence of God.

There have always been atheists in my family, and I married into a family of atheists. When any of them ask me what I think will "really" happen to them after death, I ask them, "Have you ever been interested in God, or do you foresee taking an interest in God?" The answer has always been, "No."

My response is, "Then what do you think will happen at the moment of your death that would cause you to suddenly take an interest in someone you never had an interest in before? God will honor your decision. He's not going to force Himself on you."

 

[Luddly Neddite]

very poignant on this day above all others

"A silent, invisible, intangible, undetectable ‘god’ is literally indistinguishable from a non-existent ‘god’. It is a source of deep shame and a great embarrassment to our species, that we must still even discuss such primitive, infantile delusions."

None of the various gods actually DO anything at all. People beg and cry but the gods never ever answer those cries.

When something bad happens, they say "god moves in mysterious ways" and "its god's will".

When something good happens, they say their god answered their prayers.

If a person is good, its to god's credit. An evil person is said to be possessed by a devil and "the devil made them do it".

Good gods and bad gods live in the imaginations of weak people and they're welcome to them.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Exactly.

Religion, the belief in an invisible super being is actually the ultimate insurance policy that never pays off.

 

[hobelim]

Even if one forgets about the statues, the rosary beads, scapulars, lighting candles, sacrificial alters, Eucharistic worship and pagan eating of the God ceremony, there is the entire coequal trinity thing which does not correspond to any real living being ever in existence and contradicts everything taught by God through the law and the prophets including what Jesus taught about the oneness and unequaled nature of God and the consequences for setting aside the Law and teaching others that they will not die if they do the same.

How predictable and ironic for one whose religious dedication is to sin to point to the artwork adorning the ark of the covenant where the book of the law was kept which has nothing whatever to do with what Catholics do as justification for their own sin of desecrating the teachings of Christ and perjury in the name of God.

God is present in his words. If you do not have a correct understanding of the words received by Jesus like manna from heaven and given for the life of the world he and that life is most certainly not present in you, however much time you spend on your knees in church munching on god crackers..

And of course there was always political power struggle involving conflicting religions who each claim moral authority over everyone else in order to usurp places of authority from where they can impose laws and customs on the population that reflect their own particular perverse view of the world and criminalize all opponents while keeping the 'faithful' in a perpetual stupor by the power of death consequent to a delusional religious dedication to sin on a daily basis, by praying to and seeking spiritual life from a false god, especially on Sundays and every other high holiday...

It appears there are many teachings in the Catholic faith--all based on the Bible and founded by Christ that you either misinterpret or misunderstand. These misinterpretations and misunderstandings of Christ and his teachings by Protestants and others rose five hundred years ago, and unfortunately some are still being repeated today.

No, I am very well acquainted with the teachings of the Roman Catholic which I examined in great detail in preparation for entering the novitiate under the guidance of a Jesuit priest for over a decade of study learning the details of the priesthood, the history of the church and the scriptural basis for their teachings,professed beliefs, practices and false claim to moral authority while applying the spiritual exercises of st. Ignatius of Loyola. Needless to say, because of those very exercises, I rejected the teachings of the Church as idolatrous blasphemy when the time came during a retreat for me to examine my conscience.


And, actually, the misunderstanding of Jesus and his teachings began with Paul when all of his errors were adopted by Rome after it assimilated Christianity and a group of superstitious people completely ignorant of Jewish thought, belief, and expression got together in 325 c.e. and decided that Jesus was god in the flesh and the stories were to be interpreted literally and thus the antichrist was born and the counterfeit sugar coated glutton for punishment virgin diddling triune wonder working reality defying edible godman (who was crucified because he loved the Romans so much) was unleashed on the world .

the rest is history, a very shameful and bloody history.

The good news is that rising from the dead is as easy or as difficult as it is for a person to be honest with themselves and others.

Sorry to say but so far things aren't looking very promising for you.

 

[guno]

Kissing Hank's Ass

This morning there was a knock at my door. When I answered the door I found a well groomed, nicely dressed couple. The man spoke first:

John: "Hi! I'm John, and this is Mary."

Mary: "Hi! We're here to invite you to come kiss Hank's ass with us."

Me: "Pardon me?! What are you talking about? Who's Hank, and why would I want to kiss His ass?"

John: "If you kiss Hank's ass, He'll give you a million dollars; and if you don't, He'll kick the shit out of you."

Me: "What? Is this some sort of bizarre mob shake-down?"

John: "Hank is a billionaire philanthropist. Hank built this town. Hank owns this town. He can do whatever He wants, and what He wants is to give you a million dollars, but He can't until you kiss His ass."

Me: "That doesn't make any sense. Why..."

Mary: "Who are you to question Hank's gift? Don't you want a million dollars? Isn't it worth a little kiss on the ass?"

Me: "Well maybe, if it's legit, but..."

John: "Then come kiss Hank's ass with us."

Me: "Do you kiss Hank's ass often?"

Mary: "Oh yes, all the time..."

Me: "And has He given you a million dollars?"

John: "Well no. You don't actually get the money until you leave town."

Me: "So why don't you just leave town now?"

Mary: "You can't leave until Hank tells you to, or you don't get the money, and He kicks the shit out of you."

Me: "Do you know anyone who kissed Hank's ass, left town, and got the million dollars?"

John: "My mother kissed Hank's ass for years. She left town last year, and I'm sure she got the money."

Me: "Haven't you talked to her since then?"

John: "Of course not, Hank doesn't allow it."

Me: "So what makes you think He'll actually give you the money if you've never talked to anyone who got the money?"

Mary: "Well, He gives you a little bit before you leave. Maybe you'll get a raise, maybe you'll win a small lotto, maybe you'll just find a twenty-dollar bill on the street."

Me: "What's that got to do with Hank?"

John: "Hank has certain 'connections.'"

Me: "I'm sorry, but this sounds like some sort of bizarre con game."

John: "But it's a million dollars, can you really take the chance? And remember, if you don't kiss Hank's ass He'll kick the shit out of you."

Me: "Maybe if I could see Hank, talk to Him, get the details straight from Him..."

Mary: "No one sees Hank, no one talks to Hank."

Me: "Then how do you kiss His ass?"

John: "Sometimes we just blow Him a kiss, and think of His ass. Other times we kiss Karl's ass, and he passes it on."

Me: "Who's Karl?"

Mary: "A friend of ours. He's the one who taught us all about kissing Hank's ass. All we had to do was take him out to dinner a few times."

Me: "And you just took his word for it when he said there was a Hank, that Hank wanted you to kiss His ass, and that Hank would reward you?"

John: "Oh no! Karl has a letter he got from Hank years ago explaining the whole thing. Here's a copy; see for yourself."

From the Desk of Karl

1. Kiss Hank's ass and He'll give you a million dollars when you leave town.
2. Use alcohol in moderation.
3. Kick the shit out of people who aren't like you.
4. Eat right.
5. Hank dictated this list Himself.
6. The moon is made of green cheese.
7. Everything Hank says is right.
8. Wash your hands after going to the bathroom.
9. Don't use alcohol.
10. Eat your wieners on buns, no condiments.
11. Kiss Hank's ass or He'll kick the shit out of you.

Me: "This appears to be written on Karl's letterhead."

Mary: "Hank didn't have any paper."

Me: "I have a hunch that if we checked we'd find this is Karl's handwriting."

John: "Of course, Hank dictated it."

Me: "I thought you said no one gets to see Hank?"

Mary: "Not now, but years ago He would talk to some people."

Me: "I thought you said He was a philanthropist. What sort of philanthropist kicks the shit out of people just because they're different?"

Mary: "It's what Hank wants, and Hank's always right."

Me: "How do you figure that?"

Mary: "Item 7 says 'Everything Hank says is right.' That's good enough for me!"

Me: "Maybe your friend Karl just made the whole thing up."

John: "No way! Item 5 says 'Hank dictated this list himself.' Besides, item 2 says 'Use alcohol in moderation,' Item 4 says 'Eat right,' and item 8 says 'Wash your hands after going to the bathroom.' Everyone knows those things are right, so the rest must be true, too."

Me: "But 9 says 'Don't use alcohol.' which doesn't quite go with item 2, and 6 says 'The moon is made of green cheese,' which is just plain wrong."

John: "There's no contradiction between 9 and 2, 9 just clarifies 2. As far as 6 goes, you've never been to the moon, so you can't say for sure."

Me: "Scientists have pretty firmly established that the moon is made of rock..."

Mary: "But they don't know if the rock came from the Earth, or from out of space, so it could just as easily be green cheese."

Me: "I'm not really an expert, but I think the theory that the Moon was somehow 'captured' by the Earth has been discounted*. Besides, not knowing where the rock came from doesn't make it cheese."

John: "Ha! You just admitted that scientists make mistakes, but we know Hank is always right!"

Me: "We do?"

Mary: "Of course we do, Item 7 says so."

Me: "You're saying Hank's always right because the list says so, the list is right because Hank dictated it, and we know that Hank dictated it because the list says so. That's circular logic, no different than saying 'Hank's right because He says He's right.'"

John: "Now you're getting it! It's so rewarding to see someone come around to Hank's way of thinking."

Me: "But...oh, never mind. What's the deal with wieners?"

Mary: She blushes.

John: "Wieners, in buns, no condiments. It's Hank's way. Anything else is wrong."

Me: "What if I don't have a bun?"

John: "No bun, no wiener. A wiener without a bun is wrong."

Me: "No relish? No Mustard?"

Mary: She looks positively stricken.

John: He's shouting. "There's no need for such language! Condiments of any kind are wrong!"

Me: "So a big pile of sauerkraut with some wieners chopped up in it would be out of the question?"

Mary: Sticks her fingers in her ears."I am not listening to this. La la la, la la, la la la."

John: "That's disgusting. Only some sort of evil deviant would eat that..."

Me: "It's good! I eat it all the time."

Mary: She faints.

John: He catches Mary. "Well, if I'd known you were one of those I wouldn't have wasted my time. When Hank kicks the shit out of you I'll be there, counting my money and laughing. I'll kiss Hank's ass for you, you bunless cut-wienered kraut-eater."

With this, John dragged Mary to their waiting car, and sped off.

 

[Meriweather]

No, I am very well acquainted with the teachings of the Roman Catholic which I examined in great detail in preparation for entering the novitiate under the guidance of a Jesuit priest for over a decade of study learning the details of the priesthood, the history of the church and the scriptural basis for their teachings,professed beliefs, practices and false claim to moral authority while applying the spiritual exercises of st. Ignatius of Loyola. Needless to say, because of those very exercises, I rejected the teachings of the Church as idolatrous blasphemy when the time came during a retreat for me to examine my conscience.

And, actually, the misunderstanding of Jesus and his teachings began with Paul when all of his errors were adopted by Rome after it assimilated Christianity and a group of superstitious people completely ignorant of Jewish thought, belief, and expression got together in 325 c.e. and decided that Jesus was god in the flesh and the stories were to be interpreted literally and thus the antichrist was born and the counterfeit sugar coated glutton for punishment virgin diddling triune wonder working reality defying edible godman (who was crucified because he loved the Romans so much) was unleashed on the world .

the rest is history, a very shameful and bloody history.

The good news is that rising from the dead is as easy or as difficult as it is for a person to be honest with themselves and others.

Sorry to say but so far things aren't looking very promising for you.

No, you are not closely acquainted with Catholic teachings, your conclusions are not well-founded. It is not so much that Paul misunderstood Christ's teachings as it was Paul who was misunderstood. Apostles at the time warned people some were misunderstanding Paul's message.

Somewhere, your own beliefs took a turn in a different direction--which is fine. The only protest I have is non-Catholics telling Catholics what they erroneously conclude Catholics believe. A correct understanding of what Catholics believe, but disagreeing makes better sense and can be respected.

 

[hobelim]

No, you are not closely acquainted with Catholic teachings, your conclusions are not well-founded. It is not so much that Paul misunderstood Christ's teachings as it was Paul who was misunderstood. Apostles at the time warned people some were misunderstanding Paul's message.

Somewhere, your own beliefs took a turn in a different direction--which is fine. The only protest I have is non-Catholics telling Catholics what they erroneously conclude Catholics believe. A correct understanding of what Catholics believe, but disagreeing makes better sense and can be respected.

Am I wrong to have concluded that the Church teaches that during mass, the eucharist, made by human hands, becomes the body of Christ, the very flesh of God, in actuality and must be worshiped and eaten for a person to receive eternal life?

If that's not what you believe, then open your eyes, see what you are mixed up in, and then for Christ's sake do yourself a favor and do something about it.

Calling me a hater, or ignorant of Church teaching, or misinformed about what Catholics believe isn't going to make you feel any better about yourself, but, by all means try all you like.

It isn't about disagreeing, its about right and wrong and it will never be right to worship a lifeless object made by human hands that has no life as if it was a god that can give life even though it cannot hear, see, speak or walk.

It is a vile and degrading practice that withers the mind like malicious malware that distorts perceptions and cripples its ability to function rationally resulting in the captivity of otherwise good and intelligent people who have resigned themselves to being befuddled and fleeced on a weekly basis in exchange for the specious promises of actors and lying frauds who have duped them into setting aside the commands of he who truly is God and being entombed thereby by the power of the death consequent...

Remember, if you just can't muster enough faith to rise from the dead while you still have a physical body you will be judged according to your words and deeds..

If you are OK with that, I am..

 

[Meriweather]

Am I wrong to have concluded that the Church teaches that during mass, the eucharist, made by human hands, becomes the body of Christ, the very flesh of God, in actuality and must be worshiped and eaten for a person to receive eternal life?

There is an incorrect statement in what you wrote.

Calling me a hater, or ignorant of Church teaching, or misinformed about what Catholics believe isn't going to make you feel any better about yourself, but, by all means try all you like.

I've already clarified your erroneous conclusion and assumption that you are a hater. I am sorry you felt that was what was meant or intended. Now, as before, I assure you it was not.

It isn't about disagreeing, its about right and wrong and it will never be right to worship a lifeless object made by human hands that has no life as if it was a god that can give life even though it cannot hear, see, speak or walk.

It is a vile and degrading practice that withers the mind like malicious malware that distorts perceptions and cripples its ability to function rationally resulting in the captivity of otherwise good and intelligent people who have resigned themselves to being befuddled and fleeced on a weekly basis in exchange for the specious promises of actors and lying frauds who have duped them into setting aside the commands of he who truly is God and being entombed thereby by the power of the death consequent...

Some do not believe Christ is capable of nourishing us in the way he promised, and anyone who believes it is vile and degrading should not partake. It appears you are happy that you do not.

 

[hobelim]

I've already clarified your erroneous conclusion and assumption that you are a hater. I am sorry you felt that was what was meant or intended. Now, as before, I assure you it was not.

The last part is an attempt of taking scripture and twisting it into something it is not in order to exhibit a "justified" hatred towards others. .

Yeah, right, you assure me.


Remember, according to scripture you will be judged according to your own words and deeds.

Like I said, if you are OK with that in the state that you are in, I am.

 

[Jroc]

very poignant on this day above all others

"A silent, invisible, intangible, undetectable ‘god’ is literally indistinguishable from a non-existent ‘god’. It is a source of deep shame and a great embarrassment to our species, that we must still even discuss such primitive, infantile delusions."

Rear footage of guno...

 

[Mindlight]

No Christian preaches an angry God. We approach people with Good News. But when you do Evangelism and the man tells you he regards the tract in your hand as toilet paper you can do one of 2 things. You can walk away with the tract and wipe the dust off your feet. Or you can warn him of the consequences of rejecting Christ. God has gifted me to do either and i have seen the fruit of that as positive.

Telling people who are not doing evil they are in danger of hell can give people the impression of an angry God. However, people comparing your tract to toilet paper are not the epitome of love, either. In several places scripture tells us everyone will be judged according to their deeds. This is why I believe the evil, not the non-believer, will be denied the presence of God.

There have always been atheists in my family, and I married into a family of atheists. When any of them ask me what I think will "really" happen to them after death, I ask them, "Have you ever been interested in God, or do you foresee taking an interest in God?" The answer has always been, "No."

My response is, "Then what do you think will happen at the moment of your death that would cause you to suddenly take an interest in someone you never had an interest in before? God will honor your decision. He's not going to force Himself on you."

No one is righteous not even one. We are saved by grace.

 

[Mindlight]

No, I am very well acquainted with the teachings of the Roman Catholic which I examined in great detail in preparation for entering the novitiate under the guidance of a Jesuit priest for over a decade of study learning the details of the priesthood, the history of the church and the scriptural basis for their teachings,professed beliefs, practices and false claim to moral authority while applying the spiritual exercises of st. Ignatius of Loyola. Needless to say, because of those very exercises, I rejected the teachings of the Church as idolatrous blasphemy when the time came during a retreat for me to examine my conscience.

And, actually, the misunderstanding of Jesus and his teachings began with Paul when all of his errors were adopted by Rome after it assimilated Christianity and a group of superstitious people completely ignorant of Jewish thought, belief, and expression got together in 325 c.e. and decided that Jesus was god in the flesh and the stories were to be interpreted literally and thus the antichrist was born and the counterfeit sugar coated glutton for punishment virgin diddling triune wonder working reality defying edible godman (who was crucified because he loved the Romans so much) was unleashed on the world .

the rest is history, a very shameful and bloody history.

The good news is that rising from the dead is as easy or as difficult as it is for a person to be honest with themselves and others.

Sorry to say but so far things aren't looking very promising for you.

No, you are not closely acquainted with Catholic teachings, your conclusions are not well-founded. It is not so much that Paul misunderstood Christ's teachings as it was Paul who was misunderstood. Apostles at the time warned people some were misunderstanding Paul's message.

Somewhere, your own beliefs took a turn in a different direction--which is fine. The only protest I have is non-Catholics telling Catholics what they erroneously conclude Catholics believe. A correct understanding of what Catholics believe, but disagreeing makes better sense and can be respected.

I did not say this - why is it in my name

 

[Mindlight]

Kissing Hank's Ass

This morning there was a knock at my door. When I answered the door I found a well groomed, nicely dressed couple. The man spoke first:

John: "Hi! I'm John, and this is Mary."

Mary: "Hi! We're here to invite you to come kiss Hank's ass with us."

Me: "Pardon me?! What are you talking about? Who's Hank, and why would I want to kiss His ass?"

John: "If you kiss Hank's ass, He'll give you a million dollars; and if you don't, He'll kick the shit out of you."

Me: "What? Is this some sort of bizarre mob shake-down?"

John: "Hank is a billionaire philanthropist. Hank built this town. Hank owns this town. He can do whatever He wants, and what He wants is to give you a million dollars, but He can't until you kiss His ass."

Me: "That doesn't make any sense. Why..."

Mary: "Who are you to question Hank's gift? Don't you want a million dollars? Isn't it worth a little kiss on the ass?"

Me: "Well maybe, if it's legit, but..."

John: "Then come kiss Hank's ass with us."

Me: "Do you kiss Hank's ass often?"

Mary: "Oh yes, all the time..."

Me: "And has He given you a million dollars?"

John: "Well no. You don't actually get the money until you leave town."

Me: "So why don't you just leave town now?"

Mary: "You can't leave until Hank tells you to, or you don't get the money, and He kicks the shit out of you."

Me: "Do you know anyone who kissed Hank's ass, left town, and got the million dollars?"

John: "My mother kissed Hank's ass for years. She left town last year, and I'm sure she got the money."

Me: "Haven't you talked to her since then?"

John: "Of course not, Hank doesn't allow it."

Me: "So what makes you think He'll actually give you the money if you've never talked to anyone who got the money?"

Mary: "Well, He gives you a little bit before you leave. Maybe you'll get a raise, maybe you'll win a small lotto, maybe you'll just find a twenty-dollar bill on the street."

Me: "What's that got to do with Hank?"

John: "Hank has certain 'connections.'"

Me: "I'm sorry, but this sounds like some sort of bizarre con game."

John: "But it's a million dollars, can you really take the chance? And remember, if you don't kiss Hank's ass He'll kick the shit out of you."

Me: "Maybe if I could see Hank, talk to Him, get the details straight from Him..."

Mary: "No one sees Hank, no one talks to Hank."

Me: "Then how do you kiss His ass?"

John: "Sometimes we just blow Him a kiss, and think of His ass. Other times we kiss Karl's ass, and he passes it on."

Me: "Who's Karl?"

Mary: "A friend of ours. He's the one who taught us all about kissing Hank's ass. All we had to do was take him out to dinner a few times."

Me: "And you just took his word for it when he said there was a Hank, that Hank wanted you to kiss His ass, and that Hank would reward you?"

John: "Oh no! Karl has a letter he got from Hank years ago explaining the whole thing. Here's a copy; see for yourself."

From the Desk of Karl

1. Kiss Hank's ass and He'll give you a million dollars when you leave town.
2. Use alcohol in moderation.
3. Kick the shit out of people who aren't like you.
4. Eat right.
5. Hank dictated this list Himself.
6. The moon is made of green cheese.
7. Everything Hank says is right.
8. Wash your hands after going to the bathroom.
9. Don't use alcohol.
10. Eat your wieners on buns, no condiments.
11. Kiss Hank's ass or He'll kick the shit out of you.

Me: "This appears to be written on Karl's letterhead."

Mary: "Hank didn't have any paper."

Me: "I have a hunch that if we checked we'd find this is Karl's handwriting."

John: "Of course, Hank dictated it."

Me: "I thought you said no one gets to see Hank?"

Mary: "Not now, but years ago He would talk to some people."

Me: "I thought you said He was a philanthropist. What sort of philanthropist kicks the shit out of people just because they're different?"

Mary: "It's what Hank wants, and Hank's always right."

Me: "How do you figure that?"

Mary: "Item 7 says 'Everything Hank says is right.' That's good enough for me!"

Me: "Maybe your friend Karl just made the whole thing up."

John: "No way! Item 5 says 'Hank dictated this list himself.' Besides, item 2 says 'Use alcohol in moderation,' Item 4 says 'Eat right,' and item 8 says 'Wash your hands after going to the bathroom.' Everyone knows those things are right, so the rest must be true, too."

Me: "But 9 says 'Don't use alcohol.' which doesn't quite go with item 2, and 6 says 'The moon is made of green cheese,' which is just plain wrong."

John: "There's no contradiction between 9 and 2, 9 just clarifies 2. As far as 6 goes, you've never been to the moon, so you can't say for sure."

Me: "Scientists have pretty firmly established that the moon is made of rock..."

Mary: "But they don't know if the rock came from the Earth, or from out of space, so it could just as easily be green cheese."

Me: "I'm not really an expert, but I think the theory that the Moon was somehow 'captured' by the Earth has been discounted*. Besides, not knowing where the rock came from doesn't make it cheese."

John: "Ha! You just admitted that scientists make mistakes, but we know Hank is always right!"

Me: "We do?"

Mary: "Of course we do, Item 7 says so."

Me: "You're saying Hank's always right because the list says so, the list is right because Hank dictated it, and we know that Hank dictated it because the list says so. That's circular logic, no different than saying 'Hank's right because He says He's right.'"

John: "Now you're getting it! It's so rewarding to see someone come around to Hank's way of thinking."

Me: "But...oh, never mind. What's the deal with wieners?"

Mary: She blushes.

John: "Wieners, in buns, no condiments. It's Hank's way. Anything else is wrong."

Me: "What if I don't have a bun?"

John: "No bun, no wiener. A wiener without a bun is wrong."

Me: "No relish? No Mustard?"

Mary: She looks positively stricken.

John: He's shouting. "There's no need for such language! Condiments of any kind are wrong!"

Me: "So a big pile of sauerkraut with some wieners chopped up in it would be out of the question?"

Mary: Sticks her fingers in her ears."I am not listening to this. La la la, la la, la la la."

John: "That's disgusting. Only some sort of evil deviant would eat that..."

Me: "It's good! I eat it all the time."

Mary: She faints.

John: He catches Mary. "Well, if I'd known you were one of those I wouldn't have wasted my time. When Hank kicks the shit out of you I'll be there, counting my money and laughing. I'll kiss Hank's ass for you, you bunless cut-wienered kraut-eater."

With this, John dragged Mary to their waiting car, and sped off.

Cut and pasted from James Huger. He did not get it

 

[Mindlight]

Kissing Hank's Ass

This morning there was a knock at my door. When I answered the door I found a well groomed, nicely dressed couple. The man spoke first:

John: "Hi! I'm John, and this is Mary."

Mary: "Hi! We're here to invite you to come kiss Hank's ass with us."

Me: "Pardon me?! What are you talking about? Who's Hank, and why would I want to kiss His ass?"

John: "If you kiss Hank's ass, He'll give you a million dollars; and if you don't, He'll kick the shit out of you."

Me: "What? Is this some sort of bizarre mob shake-down?"

John: "Hank is a billionaire philanthropist. Hank built this town. Hank owns this town. He can do whatever He wants, and what He wants is to give you a million dollars, but He can't until you kiss His ass."

Me: "That doesn't make any sense. Why..."

Mary: "Who are you to question Hank's gift? Don't you want a million dollars? Isn't it worth a little kiss on the ass?"

Me: "Well maybe, if it's legit, but..."

John: "Then come kiss Hank's ass with us."

Me: "Do you kiss Hank's ass often?"

Mary: "Oh yes, all the time..."

Me: "And has He given you a million dollars?"

John: "Well no. You don't actually get the money until you leave town."

Me: "So why don't you just leave town now?"

Mary: "You can't leave until Hank tells you to, or you don't get the money, and He kicks the shit out of you."

Me: "Do you know anyone who kissed Hank's ass, left town, and got the million dollars?"

John: "My mother kissed Hank's ass for years. She left town last year, and I'm sure she got the money."

Me: "Haven't you talked to her since then?"

John: "Of course not, Hank doesn't allow it."

Me: "So what makes you think He'll actually give you the money if you've never talked to anyone who got the money?"

Mary: "Well, He gives you a little bit before you leave. Maybe you'll get a raise, maybe you'll win a small lotto, maybe you'll just find a twenty-dollar bill on the street."

Me: "What's that got to do with Hank?"

John: "Hank has certain 'connections.'"

Me: "I'm sorry, but this sounds like some sort of bizarre con game."

John: "But it's a million dollars, can you really take the chance? And remember, if you don't kiss Hank's ass He'll kick the shit out of you."

Me: "Maybe if I could see Hank, talk to Him, get the details straight from Him..."

Mary: "No one sees Hank, no one talks to Hank."

Me: "Then how do you kiss His ass?"

John: "Sometimes we just blow Him a kiss, and think of His ass. Other times we kiss Karl's ass, and he passes it on."

Me: "Who's Karl?"

Mary: "A friend of ours. He's the one who taught us all about kissing Hank's ass. All we had to do was take him out to dinner a few times."

Me: "And you just took his word for it when he said there was a Hank, that Hank wanted you to kiss His ass, and that Hank would reward you?"

John: "Oh no! Karl has a letter he got from Hank years ago explaining the whole thing. Here's a copy; see for yourself."

From the Desk of Karl

1. Kiss Hank's ass and He'll give you a million dollars when you leave town.
2. Use alcohol in moderation.
3. Kick the shit out of people who aren't like you.
4. Eat right.
5. Hank dictated this list Himself.
6. The moon is made of green cheese.
7. Everything Hank says is right.
8. Wash your hands after going to the bathroom.
9. Don't use alcohol.
10. Eat your wieners on buns, no condiments.
11. Kiss Hank's ass or He'll kick the shit out of you.

Me: "This appears to be written on Karl's letterhead."

Mary: "Hank didn't have any paper."

Me: "I have a hunch that if we checked we'd find this is Karl's handwriting."

John: "Of course, Hank dictated it."

Me: "I thought you said no one gets to see Hank?"

Mary: "Not now, but years ago He would talk to some people."

Me: "I thought you said He was a philanthropist. What sort of philanthropist kicks the shit out of people just because they're different?"

Mary: "It's what Hank wants, and Hank's always right."

Me: "How do you figure that?"

Mary: "Item 7 says 'Everything Hank says is right.' That's good enough for me!"

Me: "Maybe your friend Karl just made the whole thing up."

John: "No way! Item 5 says 'Hank dictated this list himself.' Besides, item 2 says 'Use alcohol in moderation,' Item 4 says 'Eat right,' and item 8 says 'Wash your hands after going to the bathroom.' Everyone knows those things are right, so the rest must be true, too."

Me: "But 9 says 'Don't use alcohol.' which doesn't quite go with item 2, and 6 says 'The moon is made of green cheese,' which is just plain wrong."

John: "There's no contradiction between 9 and 2, 9 just clarifies 2. As far as 6 goes, you've never been to the moon, so you can't say for sure."

Me: "Scientists have pretty firmly established that the moon is made of rock..."

Mary: "But they don't know if the rock came from the Earth, or from out of space, so it could just as easily be green cheese."

Me: "I'm not really an expert, but I think the theory that the Moon was somehow 'captured' by the Earth has been discounted*. Besides, not knowing where the rock came from doesn't make it cheese."

John: "Ha! You just admitted that scientists make mistakes, but we know Hank is always right!"

Me: "We do?"

Mary: "Of course we do, Item 7 says so."

Me: "You're saying Hank's always right because the list says so, the list is right because Hank dictated it, and we know that Hank dictated it because the list says so. That's circular logic, no different than saying 'Hank's right because He says He's right.'"

John: "Now you're getting it! It's so rewarding to see someone come around to Hank's way of thinking."

Me: "But...oh, never mind. What's the deal with wieners?"

Mary: She blushes.

John: "Wieners, in buns, no condiments. It's Hank's way. Anything else is wrong."

Me: "What if I don't have a bun?"

John: "No bun, no wiener. A wiener without a bun is wrong."

Me: "No relish? No Mustard?"

Mary: She looks positively stricken.

John: He's shouting. "There's no need for such language! Condiments of any kind are wrong!"

Me: "So a big pile of sauerkraut with some wieners chopped up in it would be out of the question?"

Mary: Sticks her fingers in her ears."I am not listening to this. La la la, la la, la la la."

John: "That's disgusting. Only some sort of evil deviant would eat that..."

Me: "It's good! I eat it all the time."

Mary: She faints.

John: He catches Mary. "Well, if I'd known you were one of those I wouldn't have wasted my time. When Hank kicks the shit out of you I'll be there, counting my money and laughing. I'll kiss Hank's ass for you, you bunless cut-wienered kraut-eater."

With this, John dragged Mary to their waiting car, and sped off.

OK James Hugers text ("Kissing Hanks Arse") itself is quite offensive so I broke it down into the assumptions / accusations that he makes about the Christian faith.

<<<<Fabricated by people who benefit from pushing
it.>>>

There have been problems with the intermediaries but there is a way to check what they say by going direct to scripture.
What was the Reformation about if not overthrowing such falsities?

<<<No live communication whereby you can check authenticity>>>

Billions of Christians have enjoyed a relationship with God including prayer, presence of the Spirit in their lives. Also we have scripture to guide us.

<<<Obvious falsities - e.g. the moon is made of green
cheese>>>

Right but these do not exist in scripture the controversies are mainly over matters of interpretation

<<<Silly apparently petty rulings on what you can eat.>>>

No food laws in the church age. Misunderstanding of why the food laws were framed in the first place. To
define a people set apart from the nations and avoidance of idolatrous practices.

<<<A gift of a million dollars can be compared to the gift of salvation>>>>

They are actually very different. $1m is a nice to have but salvation is essential.

<<<<Not clear anyone has actually received what was
promised.>>>

Christs presence on earth was itself the fulfilment of hundreds of OT prophecies and promises. He said he would rise from the dead and he did.
Witnessed miracles he performed added to his credibility. There are people who came back e.g. Moses and Elijah on the Mount of Transfiguration.
Evey Christian has a deposit of the final promise in their hearts and an experience of the power of God in their lives. We are being told this by
a person who has already demonstrated the truth of it. Christ raised people from the dead and there are examples in church testimonies today also.

 

[Meriweather]

I've already clarified your erroneous conclusion and assumption that you are a hater. I am sorry you felt that was what was meant or intended. Now, as before, I assure you it was not.

The last part is an attempt of taking scripture and twisting it into something it is not in order to exhibit a "justified" hatred towards others. .

Yeah, right, you assure me.


Remember, according to scripture you will be judged according to your own words and deeds.

Like I said, if you are OK with that in the state that you are in, I am.

When conversing with me, it is best to keep in mind that I am most interested in religion and its history. It says a lot about me that you never crossed my mind when I wrote about hate shown to Catholics. I was focused on historical events. I was surprised--then amused--that you made it all about you...which alerts me to your own focus. Your misinterpretations of the Catholic faith should have warned me you are equally as likely to misinterpret me.

Here's the deal. I am interested in talking about religion and the different perspectives people have of God and faith. I am not interested in talking about myself or any Internet diagnosis people propose. I am happy to discuss religion with you, but I am not going to address any more comments about you (or anything you have convinced yourself I said about you)--and I am certainly not going to talk about me.

 

[Meriweather]

No one is righteous not even one. We are saved by grace.

We have different approaches and perspectives of all of this. First, the No one is righteous quote is taken from Isaiah during a particular time and place, addressing a particular people and their behavior. It was a call to turn back to righteous behavior.

Second, for the most part, I repudiate the Protestant term "saved" because of the definition Protestants, on the whole, have assigned to it. For me, the words "redeemed" and "salvation" are more precise and retain the original meanings.

Third, our salvation and redemption is provided and gifted to us by a Supreme Being, God. Law cannot create eternal life. Work cannot create eternal life. Not even grace has the intelligence to create eternal life. Our great and glorious God has the power and intelligence to both create and draw us into His kingdom and eternal life. The ways of the kingdom are service and works for God and others. The strength and guidance to serve God and others is provided by the graces God pours freely upon us. We need this strength and guidance because Christ, whose disciples we are, exhorted us to be perfect as our Heavenly Father is perfect.

 

[Meriweather]

No, I am very well acquainted with the teachings of the Roman Catholic which I examined in great detail in preparation for entering the novitiate under the guidance of a Jesuit priest for over a decade of study learning the details of the priesthood, the history of the church and the scriptural basis for their teachings,professed beliefs, practices and false claim to moral authority while applying the spiritual exercises of st. Ignatius of Loyola. Needless to say, because of those very exercises, I rejected the teachings of the Church as idolatrous blasphemy when the time came during a retreat for me to examine my conscience.

And, actually, the misunderstanding of Jesus and his teachings began with Paul when all of his errors were adopted by Rome after it assimilated Christianity and a group of superstitious people completely ignorant of Jewish thought, belief, and expression got together in 325 c.e. and decided that Jesus was god in the flesh and the stories were to be interpreted literally and thus the antichrist was born and the counterfeit sugar coated glutton for punishment virgin diddling triune wonder working reality defying edible godman (who was crucified because he loved the Romans so much) was unleashed on the world .

the rest is history, a very shameful and bloody history.

The good news is that rising from the dead is as easy or as difficult as it is for a person to be honest with themselves and others.

Sorry to say but so far things aren't looking very promising for you.

No, you are not closely acquainted with Catholic teachings, your conclusions are not well-founded. It is not so much that Paul misunderstood Christ's teachings as it was Paul who was misunderstood. Apostles at the time warned people some were misunderstanding Paul's message.

Somewhere, your own beliefs took a turn in a different direction--which is fine. The only protest I have is non-Catholics telling Catholics what they erroneously conclude Catholics believe. A correct understanding of what Catholics believe, but disagreeing makes better sense and can be respected.

I did not say this - why is it in my name

My apologies for the cutting and editing mistake. I tend to cut out all but the last statement to the post I am responding, and in this case made an incorrect cut. I'll be more careful in the future--especially when posting at the end of the day, when tired.