Three Members Of A Radical Right Wing Militia Group Sentenced

[koshergrl]

Oh shut up, you moron.

 

[logical4u]

How many Americans have been killed by right wing militia groups in the same time frame?

Figures don't lie, but liars can figure. Pretty clever using percentage of threats as a gauge.

The Oklahoma blast claimed 168 lives, including 19 children under the age of 6, and injured more than 680 people. The blast destroyed or damaged 324 buildings within a sixteen-block radius, destroyed or burned 86 cars, and shattered glass in 258 nearby buildings. The bomb was estimated to have caused at least $652 million worth of damage

Oklahoma City bombing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

McVie was not "right-wing".

 

[JakeStarkey]

How many Americans have been killed by right wing militia groups in the same time frame?

Figures don't lie, but liars can figure. Pretty clever using percentage of threats as a gauge.

The Oklahoma blast claimed 168 lives, including 19 children under the age of 6, and injured more than 680 people. The blast destroyed or damaged 324 buildings within a sixteen-block radius, destroyed or burned 86 cars, and shattered glass in 258 nearby buildings. The bomb was estimated to have caused at least $652 million worth of damage

Oklahoma City bombing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

McVie was not "right-wing".

Yup, he was an extremist wack to the far right.

 

[logical4u]

You know, 7 pages in and not one person has even asked what even makes the cited case an instance of 'Right Wing Extremism.' Is it that he was a in a militia? Are all people in a militia cases of right wingers? I guess militia is an actual idealism but eco terrorism is not....

Three members in an Alaskan radical right wing militia group have been found guilty of numerous charges including conspiracy to commit murder (against law enforcement) possession of numerous illegal weapons, destructive devices and more.

Another fact is the biggest threat of terror against freedom and the nation isn't from Islamists like the right wing media would like you to think, it's actually from domestic right wing terror cells.

Militiamen found guilty, face long sentences: Breaking News | Alaska news at adn.com

This guy sounds more like an "occupier" than a conservative:

from the article: ..."Federal prosecutors charged Cox, 28, Coleman Barney, 37, and Lonnie Vernon, 56, with amassing illegal weapons and with threatening the lives of law enforcement officials and judges. Cox was leader of the Alaska Peacemaker Militia, but his ideology was much broader, combining evangelical Christianity, a sense of an impending national collapse, and the assertion that the state and federal government held no authority over him......"

Then if you pay attention, further down: ".... FIVE ORGANIZATIONS

Cox created or played a leadership role in at least five separate activist organizations in Fairbanks. The Interior Alaska Conservative Coalition kicked him out in 2010 when Cox began advocating "bloody revolution" and the overthrow the government, a board member testified at the trial.

His Liberty Bell Network provided a phone number -- Cox's cell phone -- for anyone who believed the police were overstepping their bounds. Cox and other volunteers would race to the scene to capture the event on video. It was at such a situation where Cox failed to declare to the police that he was carrying a concealed weapon, leading to the charge he eventually failed to answer.

His Alaska Assembly Post promoted the "sovereign citizen" movement in Fairbanks, the notion that the individual is the only source of governmental authority. Under the auspices of the Assembly Post, Cox arranged for a "judge" and a jury of his pals to hear his weapons case and a prior domestic violence case to which he had already pleaded guilty. The proceedings were held at the Denny's restaurant in Fairbanks and he was acquitted of all charges.

Cox's Second Amendment Task Force was popular in Fairbanks despite its declaration that members, if they served on a real jury, should never convict a person of gun charges unless the weapon was used in connection with another crime. There's a famous YouTube video of Rep. Don Young standing next to Cox at Denny's as Cox declared, "We have no obligation to submit to a government that refuses to submit to their governing document."

In the video, Young signed a public letter written by Cox that declares that if the government decides to "further tax, restrict or register firearms," citizens would have the duty to "alter or abolish" such a government and replace it with another.

Cox created the Alaska Peacemaker Militia as a uniformed and heavily armed force. At times he described it as a defensive organization, but also declared its members could open fire first on government agents who had drawn down on them. It was also the militia that would implement the "241" plan.

With those organizations, prosecutors said, Cox had created the foundation of an alternative government and the ability to use force to attempt to put in place. ..."

Read more here: Militiamen found guilty, face long sentences: Breaking News | Alaska news at adn.com

Do you want to try again? What makes him a "right winger"?

I did not receive a response. I think it is too difficult to answer.

 

[Black_Label]

You know, 7 pages in and not one person has even asked what even makes the cited case an instance of 'Right Wing Extremism.' Is it that he was a in a militia? Are all people in a militia cases of right wingers? I guess militia is an actual idealism but eco terrorism is not....

Three members in an Alaskan radical right wing militia group have been found guilty of numerous charges including conspiracy to commit murder (against law enforcement) possession of numerous illegal weapons, destructive devices and more.

Another fact is the biggest threat of terror against freedom and the nation isn't from Islamists like the right wing media would like you to think, it's actually from domestic right wing terror cells.

Militiamen found guilty, face long sentences: Breaking News | Alaska news at adn.com

This guy sounds more like an "occupier" than a conservative:

from the article: ..."Federal prosecutors charged Cox, 28, Coleman Barney, 37, and Lonnie Vernon, 56, with amassing illegal weapons and with threatening the lives of law enforcement officials and judges. Cox was leader of the Alaska Peacemaker Militia, but his ideology was much broader, combining evangelical Christianity, a sense of an impending national collapse, and the assertion that the state and federal government held no authority over him......"

Then if you pay attention, further down: ".... FIVE ORGANIZATIONS

Cox created or played a leadership role in at least five separate activist organizations in Fairbanks. The Interior Alaska Conservative Coalition kicked him out in 2010 when Cox began advocating "bloody revolution" and the overthrow the government, a board member testified at the trial.

His Liberty Bell Network provided a phone number -- Cox's cell phone -- for anyone who believed the police were overstepping their bounds. Cox and other volunteers would race to the scene to capture the event on video. It was at such a situation where Cox failed to declare to the police that he was carrying a concealed weapon, leading to the charge he eventually failed to answer.

His Alaska Assembly Post promoted the "sovereign citizen" movement in Fairbanks, the notion that the individual is the only source of governmental authority. Under the auspices of the Assembly Post, Cox arranged for a "judge" and a jury of his pals to hear his weapons case and a prior domestic violence case to which he had already pleaded guilty. The proceedings were held at the Denny's restaurant in Fairbanks and he was acquitted of all charges.

Cox's Second Amendment Task Force was popular in Fairbanks despite its declaration that members, if they served on a real jury, should never convict a person of gun charges unless the weapon was used in connection with another crime. There's a famous YouTube video of Rep. Don Young standing next to Cox at Denny's as Cox declared, "We have no obligation to submit to a government that refuses to submit to their governing document."

In the video, Young signed a public letter written by Cox that declares that if the government decides to "further tax, restrict or register firearms," citizens would have the duty to "alter or abolish" such a government and replace it with another.

Cox created the Alaska Peacemaker Militia as a uniformed and heavily armed force. At times he described it as a defensive organization, but also declared its members could open fire first on government agents who had drawn down on them. It was also the militia that would implement the "241" plan.

With those organizations, prosecutors said, Cox had created the foundation of an alternative government and the ability to use force to attempt to put in place. ..."

Read more here: Militiamen found guilty, face long sentences: Breaking News | Alaska news at adn.com

Do you want to try again? What makes him a "right winger"?

I did not receive a response. I think it is too difficult to answer.

The answer is simple, they were another group of right wing extremists that were planning a terror attack.

 

[logical4u]

What constitutes extreme right too you?

I use the standard and defined meanings for all political terms, so for me extreme right wing could be something like:

Far right politics involves support of strong or complete social hierarchy in society, and supports supremacy of certain individuals or groups deemed to be innately superior who are to be more valued than those deemed to be innately inferior.

The far right is commonly associated with persons or groups who hold extreme nationalist, xenophobic, racist, religious fundamentalist or reactionary views. The most extreme-right movements have pursued oppression and genocide against groups of people on the basis of their alleged inferiority.

Far-right politics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I would also add in strong support for capital, business and the ownership of businesses, with potentially violent opposition towards high levels of taxation and government control.

Within an American context we would also need to add: belief in gun ownership and the constitution, suspicion towards authorities, especially at a federal level.

You would be wrong.

Far right believes:

that the "law" should be applied equally (no special priviledges for those in DC, no extra rights for minorities, just the same law, applied without attention to color, creed, sex or political affiliation)

each person is given blessings by the Lord, and it is "entirely" up to you to use them. If you choose not to use your skills and abilities, do not expect me to support you.

generosity: contribute to the belief system of your choosing and their charities (that means the gov't doesn't "focibly take what you have so the politicians can play generous with other people's money), including the gov't. There are ways to "gift" the gov't if you truly believe they will assist the needy. This perpetuates religious systems and gives people a way to find spiritual paths (and be taught about said religions if they so choose).

each person can use the "rewards" of their own labor how they see fit (in accordance with law: not breaking the law).

Behavior that "builds" society should be rewarded and highlighted. Behavior that is destructive should be exposed as such.

Belief that "gun ownership" ensures all the above. Belief that "gun confiscation" encourages: genocide, brutal dictatorship, tyrants, and cons.

BTW
Please list what the far-left believes.

 

[logical4u]

Kosher Girl -

Again, I am not a "lefty" or a "leftist." Rage against them all you want.

I honestly have no idea why you are finding that difficult to understand.

My interest here is purely and simply in the use of correct terminology.

All we have to go by are your posts, and it appears that you are a leftist IMHO.

 

[daveman]

If you really are a mainstream Republican, then you're what's wrong with the GOP -- too far left, not nearly conservative enough.

That really is very, very funny.

I hope it was meant to be.

When I want your opinion, I'll...I'll...


Well, heck, I dunno. I can't imagine ever wanting your opinion.

But it is interesting to note that once again a far left poster comes to Jake's defense.

 

[logical4u]

A democratically elected government can also become a tyrannical government. So do you puss out and take it?

Well Hitler was democratically elected - so you have a fair point there.

But I think 90% of what we hear called 'tyranny' and 'oppression' is nothing worthy of the terms. When I hear Americans, in particular, talking about tyranny, what they generally mean is a government they don't especially like. They are in no way oppressed.

People in North Korea, Belarus, Zimbabwe and Iran know what real oppression is like - the rest of us should feel fairly damn lucky our countries don't look like theirs do.

You are right. We are blessed. Why won't the "left" see that is what we are trying to avoid, while the dems are trying to steer the country to those states?

 

[logical4u]

Well Hitler was democratically elected - so you have a fair point there.

But I think 90% of what we hear called 'tyranny' and 'oppression' is nothing worthy of the terms. When I hear Americans, in particular, talking about tyranny, what they generally mean is a government they don't especially like. They are in no way oppressed.

People in North Korea, Belarus, Zimbabwe and Iran know what real oppression is like - the rest of us should feel fairly damn lucky our countries don't look like theirs do.

You prove his point for him, unless you think we should ALLOW our oppression to reach those extremes...

I agree that we need to be wary of encroaching oppression, but to be honest I don't think there is a person in America who HONESTLY thought Obama or Bush or JFK or Reagan were suddenly about to turn the US into one giant Siberian Labour Camp.

We can all defend our civil rights by voting, by demonstrating, writing letters, making donations...whatever we need to do, but we don't need a stockpile of weapons to do so. Maybe one day we will - but not for the past 40 years, and probably not for the next 40.

Do you think when you discover you need them, they will be available?

 

[daveman]

Mainstream Republicans criticize Obama for a number of reputable reasons.

Bitching because he's not far enough left to suit you is not one of them, kid.

Mainstream Republicans are voting for Romney, as am I.

Mainstream Republicans shudder at the likes of you, daveman, pretending to be mainstream.

If you really are a mainstream Republican, then you're what's wrong with the GOP -- too far left, not nearly conservative enough.

No one of repute here is worried about what you think is conservative enough.

Claiming to speak for everyone? That's a common leftist trait, you know.

Folks like you on the far right are why Romney won the GOP primaries.

Yes, unfortunately, we managed to get the most left of all the candidates.

I repeat: We have one Dem Party. We don't need two. Stop working for that.

 

[daveman]

the idiot stick must have hurt bad when it hit you.

are you that dumb that you can't even read a simple chart?

are you stupid enough to believe right wing is more dangerous that muslim terrorists?

More dangerous to the leftist agenda. Screw the country.

 

[daveman]

Right wing terrorists here in America are more dangerous to Americans than jihadists here. We have had less than 20 deaths since 9/12/2001 from jihadists (13 in one incident).

Both jihadists and militia wacks in America are police matters, nothing more.

That's right, Fake -- left wingers believe terrorism is a police matter, not a national security matter.

 

[logical4u]

Well, I'd rather have them and not need them than need them and not have them...

Having militia in yor area is not without a potential cost - a cost in safety and law & order, as we've just seen in this Alaskan case.

No western country needs a militia to defend itself from its own peoples voting habits. It might have done in 1820, but not in 2012, when democracy is a alive and kicking.

You "might" need them to vote in the upcoming election if the black panthers are not leashed.

 

[logical4u]

Ecoterrorism isn't an ideology.

Exactly. The far right wing nutcases don't have the mental capabilities to understand that.

Ideology is a rigid set of beliefs—a system of beliefs—that compels people to behave in particular ways. Ideology, especially the extremist version, does not allow for compromise; it is a Manichean system of reasoning that does not serve as a basis for day-to-day political activity. It is in fact the antithesis of politics, a system that thrives on debate and compromise. It is also distinguishable from philosophy and religion, which guide how individuals choose to live. Ideology is about how a few individuals think society should be governed. Ideologically driven behavior goes beyond merely acting on principle; the transition from principle to ideology takes place when someone decides that all others are just plain wrong.

Environmentalism as an ideology has given impetus to the new phenomenon of “Eco-Terrorism.”

Source: Naval Postgraduate School: Center on Contemporary Conflict

--------

You are talking Tomato, Tomatoes here.. Eco-Terrorism is as much an Ideology and Belief as is true Nazism. It is the direct belief that the world is wrong in a certain manner, therefore violent actions must be taken in order to change it.

On the other end of the spectrum.... those that believe in nothing are just as dangerous...

 

[daveman]

What constitutes extreme right too you?

I use the standard and defined meanings for all political terms, so for me extreme right wing could be something like:

Far right politics involves support of strong or complete social hierarchy in society, and supports supremacy of certain individuals or groups deemed to be innately superior who are to be more valued than those deemed to be innately inferior.

The far right is commonly associated with persons or groups who hold extreme nationalist, xenophobic, racist, religious fundamentalist or reactionary views. The most extreme-right movements have pursued oppression and genocide against groups of people on the basis of their alleged inferiority.

Far-right politics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I would also add in strong support for capital, business and the ownership of businesses, with potentially violent opposition towards high levels of taxation and government control.

Within an American context we would also need to add: belief in gun ownership and the constitution, suspicion towards authorities, especially at a federal level.

You would be wrong.

Far right believes:

that the "law" should be applied equally (no special priviledges for those in DC, no extra rights for minorities, just the same law, applied without attention to color, creed, sex or political affiliation)

each person is given blessings by the Lord, and it is "entirely" up to you to use them. If you choose not to use your skills and abilities, do not expect me to support you.

generosity: contribute to the belief system of your choosing and their charities (that means the gov't doesn't "focibly take what you have so the politicians can play generous with other people's money), including the gov't. There are ways to "gift" the gov't if you truly believe they will assist the needy. This perpetuates religious systems and gives people a way to find spiritual paths (and be taught about said religions if they so choose).

each person can use the "rewards" of their own labor how they see fit (in accordance with law: not breaking the law).

Behavior that "builds" society should be rewarded and highlighted. Behavior that is destructive should be exposed as such.

Belief that "gun ownership" ensures all the above. Belief that "gun confiscation" encourages: genocide, brutal dictatorship, tyrants, and cons.

BTW
Please list what the far-left believes.

The exact opposite of all that.

 

[logical4u]

Three members in an Alaskan radical right wing militia group have been found guilty of numerous charges including conspiracy to commit murder (against law enforcement) possession of numerous illegal weapons, destructive devices and more.

Another fact is the biggest threat of terror against freedom and the nation isn't from Islamists like the right wing media would like you to think, it's actually from domestic right wing terror cells.

Militiamen found guilty, face long sentences: Breaking News | Alaska news at adn.com

This is pretty stupid. Nobody denies that there are other threats than just the jihadi terrorist threat. But the Jihadi threat is clearly the greatest. Counting incidents is ridiculous. How many people were killed?

I know it's hard for you to take, but the fact is the far right is a much bigger terror threat than jihad.

How many people have the "far right" captured, bound, and had four men hold them while a fifth man sawed off his head while a "sixth" man videod it?
How many people have the "far right" disemboweled and left on the street to die?
How many women have the "far right" attacked in groups of hundreds, stripped her and molested and abused her?
How many homosexuals have the "far right" hung or stoned to death?
How many of the "far right" have slandered someone because they do not believe the same as they do (this is a favorite tactic of the "left" BTW).
How many families have been "butchered" by the "far right"?
How many churces have been burned while having services, and any that ran out beaten or killed, by the "far right"?
How many gov'ts have been led by the "far right" where human rights were suspended, and people were "forced" into slavery?

Yeah, some of the far right like to get together and talk about "what if", and shoot some guns at "targets" (that would be different than innocent civilians), and compare who has the best "gun". How is that different than some homosexual groups?

 

[logical4u]

Right wing terrorists here in America are more dangerous to Americans than jihadists here. We have had less than 20 deaths since 9/12/2001 from jihadists (13 in one incident).

Both jihadists and militia wacks in America are police matters, nothing more.

According to your "reasoning", blacks are the more dangerous to Americans:

A 2007 special report released by the Bureau of Justice Statistics, reveals that approximately 8,000 — and, in certain years, as many as 9,000 African Americans are murdered annually in the United States. This chilling figure is accompanied by another equally sobering fact, that 93% of these murders are in fact perpetrated by other blacks. The analysis, supported by FBI records, finds that in 2005 alone, for example, African Americans accounted for 49% of all homicide victims in the US — again, almost exclusively at the hands of other African Americans.

Just sayin'....

 

[daveman]

This is pretty stupid. Nobody denies that there are other threats than just the jihadi terrorist threat. But the Jihadi threat is clearly the greatest. Counting incidents is ridiculous. How many people were killed?

I know it's hard for you to take, but the fact is the far right is a much bigger terror threat than jihad.

How many people have the "far right" captured, bound, and had four men hold them while a fifth man sawed off his head while a "sixth" man videod it?
How many people have the "far right" disemboweled and left on the street to die?
How many women have the "far right" attacked in groups of hundreds, stripped her and molested and abused her?
How many homosexuals have the "far right" hung or stoned to death?
How many of the "far right" have slandered someone because they do not believe the same as they do (this is a favorite tactic of the "left" BTW).
How many families have been "butchered" by the "far right"?
How many churces have been burned while having services, and any that ran out beaten or killed, by the "far right"?
How many gov'ts have been led by the "far right" where human rights were suspended, and people were "forced" into slavery?

Yeah, some of the far right like to get together and talk about "what if", and shoot some guns at "targets" (that would be different than innocent civilians), and compare who has the best "gun". How is that different than some homosexual groups?

You're really harshing Black_Label's hategasm, dood.

 

[logical4u]

The Oklahoma blast claimed 168 lives, including 19 children under the age of 6, and injured more than 680 people. The blast destroyed or damaged 324 buildings within a sixteen-block radius, destroyed or burned 86 cars, and shattered glass in 258 nearby buildings. The bomb was estimated to have caused at least $652 million worth of damage

Oklahoma City bombing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

McVie was not "right-wing".

Yup, he was an extremist wack to the far right.

from his own words, McVeigh does not seem to be much of a far-right type. He claimed "science" was his religion (a trademark of the "left").
from Wikopedia

...... "In a 1996 interview, McVeigh professed belief in "a God", although he said he had "sort of lost touch with" Catholicism and "I never really picked it up, however I do maintain core beliefs."[84] In the 2001 book American Terrorist, McVeigh stated that he did not believe in Hell and that science is his religion.[87][88] In June 2001, a day before the execution, McVeigh wrote a letter to the Buffalo News identifying as agnostic.[89] Before his execution, McVeigh took the Catholic sacrament of the Anointing of the Sick.[90]"..... "In a 1,200-word essay [93] dated March 1998, from the federal maximum-security prison at Florence, Colo., McVeigh claimed that the terrorist bombing was “morally equivalent” to U.S. military actions against Iraq and other foreign lands." ....

and then from a "conspiracy" site ..... "PART I: Possible Middle Eastern Connections

There is serious, yet in some cases circumstantial, evidence that suggests a possible Middle Eastern connection to the Oklahoma City bombing (named “OKBOMB” by federal investigators):

For example, of all the cities in the world, convicted terrorist Ramzi Yousef and Terry Nichols were in Cebu City in the Philippines at the same time three months before the Oklahoma City bombing. Yousef was the perpetrator of the first World Trade Center attack as well as the mastermind behind the planning of other high-profile attacks on Americans. Furthermore, Ramzi Yousef’s phone records, from the months before he detonated the first World Trade Center bomb in early 1993, show calls placed to the Filipina neighbor and close friend of Terry Nichols’ in-laws in Queens, New York. The opportunity for interaction between American terrorist, Nichols, and al-Qaeda terrorist, Yousef, is evident.

One indicator that this terrorist act had broader implications came directly from Abdul Hakim Murad, Yousef’s roommate, childhood friend, and fellow convicted terrorist. On the day of the bombing, Murad claimed responsibility for this terrorist act from his jail cell in New York. He bragged to his prison guards, verbally and in writing, that the bombing of the Murrah federal building was the work of the “Liberation Army.” His confession was similar to the one Yousef had made two years earlier in the immediate aftermath of the first attempt to destroy the Word Trade Center. Hours after he drove a Ryder truck into the garage of the north tower of the World Trade Center and detonated the deadly bomb, Yousef called the FBI from a pay phone in Newark International Airport and boasted that the “Liberation Army” had conducted the attack. He then boarded a plane and escaped, ending up in Manila, Philippines.

Note: the Oklahoma City Bombing followed a similar pattern to the 1993 attack on the World Trade Center —a rental truck loaded with ammonium-based explosives, using similar detonation devices, based on the strategy of driving a vehicle into or near a target.

Another possibility of Islamic terrorist involvement in the Oklahoma City bombing was pursued by Jayna Davis, a local Oklahoma City television reporter. Davis did extensive research in the immediate and long term aftermath of the crime and concluded that a small group of recent Iraqi émigrés living in the Oklahoma City area helped McVeigh bomb the Murrah building. She documented multiple witnesses who placed Timothy McVeigh with a foreign-looking person (and/or persons) in the days leading up to, as well as the day of, the Oklahoma City bombing. Her witnesses offer substantial support to the theory of a Middle Eastern connection and relate directly to the existence of John Doe Two. The FBI, much to the frustration of some of its own investigators, discarded the possibility of the existence of John Doe Two, two months into the investigation. There are a number of factors, including information provided by Davis, indicating the existence of John Doe Two and a possible Middle Eastern connection.

Note: at the outset of the subcommittee’s investigation, former Oklahoma governor Frank Keating personally requested that the investigation be called off. During his meeting with the subcommittee chairman, Governor Keating mentioned that then- President Bill Clinton had called him only hours after the bombing. According to Keating, President Clinton’s first comment to him after the bombing was “God, I hope there’s no Middle Eastern connection to this.”

This mindset, described by Governor Keating, may or may not have influenced the original Oklahoma City bombing investigators. There were many reasons to believe that there might have been a foreign connection. There should have been no hesitation to investigate and make that determination, even if it would have required a forceful retaliation.

Terry Nichol's in the Philippines

[...]

Nichols’ skill as a terrorist seems to have grown while in the Philippines. Initially he was an unsuccessful bomb-maker. According to Michael Fortier’s testimony, Nichols and McVeigh failed miserably when they tested an explosive device in the Arizona desert just six months before they bombed the Murrah building. After Nichols’ final trip to the Philippines, he and McVeigh were fully capable of manufacturing the crude but deadly bomb that was used to bring down the Murrah federal building.

Terry Nichols and Ramzi Yousef

Lisa and Marife Torres had a Filipina friend and fellow “tour guide” in Shelton’s mail order bride business named Vilma Elumbaring. Lisa claims that Vilma dated a man whose last name was “Khan” and that Marife, Vilma, and Khan were together on at least one occasion at a disco in Cebu one month before Terry Nichols first traveled there.

This Khan could possibly be Yousef friend and fellow terrorist, Wali Khan, who trained aspiring terrorists in the Philippines and was later convicted of plotting to blow up U.S. airliners. According to one Abu Sayyaf (see below) member who trained with Khan, he was a master at making explosives. If the “Khan,” identified by Vilma as part of the Cebu disco scene was convicted terrorist Wali Khan, that would place Terry Nichols and a Yousef ally in the same circles in Cebu City.

In addition to a “Khan” being with Marife’s group in Cebu, a prominent member of the Philippine terrorist organization, Abu Sayyaf, made statements to investigators and police in the aftermath of the Oklahoma City bombing. Edwin Angeles had trained at the terrorist camp in Mindanao around the time Wali Khan was there. Angeles told McVeigh defense team interviewers that Terry Nichols had met with Yousef, Khan, and Murad on at least one occasion in Mindanao in the early 1990s.

There is no doubt, however, that Nichols and Yousef were both in Cebu City in December and January prior to the April 19, 1995 Oklahoma City bombing. Yousef, having successfully escaped America after exploding a bomb in the World Trade Center in February 1993, had been living in Manila with Murad and Khan. They were working on their next two part plan, Project Bojinka: a conspiracy to place bombs on twelve American airliners which would explode over the Pacific Ocean, potentially killing hundreds of Americans, and to overtake the cockpits of American airliners and crash them into buildings such as the CIA headquarters in Langley, Virginia.

Yousef decided to do a test-run of his airline-bombing plot in December 1994. He took a Philippine Airline flight from Manila where, after placing his test bomb underneath a seat, he disembarked in Cebu City. The bomb exploded on its way to Tokyo, killing a Japanese businessman. Meanwhile, Terry Nichols and his wife were in Cebu City, where Marife was attending college at Southwestern University.

[...]

Note: Nichols hastily departed the Philippines immediately after the Yousef bomb operation was discovered and Murad was arrested in Manila. Shortly before, Nichols had arranged his reservations to leave at a later date. Inexplicably, his plans changed the day the Manila bomb plot was broken up. All this justifiably leads to speculation that the Bojinka bombing plot may have been tied to a more grandiose scheme. Had the Bojinka plot and the Oklahoma City bombing occurred in the same time frame, it would have been a spectacular worldwide attack on the American people. Evidence is circumstantial but serious questions remains.

Phone Records Possibly Linking Yousef to Nichols

[...]. As Chairman of the Oversight and Investigations Subcommittee in October 2005, I provided the FBI with the evidence showing Yousef’s phone calls to the close friends and neighbors of Terry Nichols’ in-laws in Queens, but have not received a response that addressed these facts. To date, the FBI has not responded to my request for their assessment. Additionally, I asked the FBI for information from their Yousef investigation concerning Mila Densing. Inexplicably, they do not seem to have interviewed her.

Nichols has gotten something of a pass on the culpability of his participation in this horrific act of violence. His complicated attempts to manipulate those investigating OKBOMB, including the subcommittee, suggest capabilities that belie his image as subservient to McVeigh. To this day, Nichols does not fully acknowledge his complicity in this monstrous crime, seeking instead to draw attention to others, some of whom he self-servingly hints have yet to be exposed.

John Doe Two

Timothy McVeigh visited Elliot’s Body Shop in Junction City, Kansas on the afternoon of Monday, April 17, 1995, in order to rent a Ryder Truck for the bombing. After the bombing, FBI sketch artist Roy Rozycki interviewed Elliot’s Body Shop employees Eldon Elliot, Vicki Beemer, and Tom Kessinger. They assisted the FBI in producing a likeness of “John Doe One” and “John Doe Two,” which were released to the public on Thursday, April 20, 1995. McVeigh was clearly John Doe One. [...]

An employee at a tire store in Oklahoma City stated that he saw McVeigh and a “dark” passenger wearing a ball cap pull into the driveway of his tire store at 8:45 a.m. on April 19 and asked for directions to 5th and Harvey Streets. This witness identified Timothy McVeigh from a lineup without having seen the composite drawings. McVeigh denied stopping at a tire store to his lawyers and his methodical planning may make it unlikely that he did. Nevertheless, the witness is credible.

Jeff Davis delivered Chinese food to McVeigh’s room at the Dreamland Motel in Kansas on April 15. Davis, another credible witness, claims the man who opened the door to accept the order was not McVeigh. Here, again, another participant in the crime is apparent, yet never explained by authorities.

On June 14, 1995, the FBI called off the hunt for John Doe Two.

[..]


City Ryder truck rental remains adamant that a second man accompanied McVeigh. Eldon Elliot emphatically states that there was a second man with McVeigh, and that the FBI has aggressively pressured him to change his story. He, too, is a credible witness.

Oklahoma CityIraqis

Within minutes of the Oklahoma City bombing, local television reporter Jayna Davis was at the scene of the crime interviewing witnesses. In the weeks and months afterward, she continued to investigate the bombing and, in her television broadcasts, asked viewers with information to come forward. She was particularly focused on the FBI’s original sketch of John Doe Two. There are multiple witnesses in Oklahoma City who placed Timothy McVeigh with another person at the scene of the bombing. The description of this accomplice offered by the witnesses at the scene closely resembles the sketch made of McVeigh’s companion when he rented the Ryder truck. The hard fact remains that witnesses saw McVeigh with a man leading up to and on the day of the bombing. Authorities still contend that McVeigh was alone. The belief that the FBI dropped its search for John Doe Two prematurely appears justified.

Davis has presented evidence that John Doe Two, who was with McVeigh in the Ryder truck on the day of the bombing, was a recent Iraqi immigrant who lived and worked in Oklahoma City. The Iraqi in question, Hussain Al-Hussaini, was one of a group of Iraqis hired to do odd jobs for a Palestinian landlord, Samir Khalil, who owned properties throughout the area. K

halil hired the Iraqi newcomers, supposedly refugees from the first Gulf War, to maintain his rental properties. Khalil himself served time for insurance fraud in the early 1990s. Hussaini resembles John Doe Two and was identified by witnesses on the scene. Adding to the suspicion, Hussain al Hussani was less than forthcoming about his whereabouts the morning of the bombing. His alibi, brought out in civil court depositions, is contradictory and unconvincing. One more disturbing revelation of this investigation is that Hussain Al-Hussaini was never interviewed by federal law enforcement.

More alarming is the discovery of a published list of un-indicted coconspirators from the first World Trade Center bombing that includes the name Samir Khalil. This subcommittee asked the Department of Justice to determine if the man’s name on the unindicted coconspirators World Trade Center bombing list is the same man in Oklahoma City. A letter responding to this request stated that such a task would be too “burdensome.” This unwillingness on the part of the Justice Department to look into a possible solid link between the Oklahoma City bombing and the first World Trade Center attack is extremely disappointing, bordering on dereliction of duty.

To this day, federal law enforcement cannot explain what, if anything was done to examine these possible links or scrutinize Khalil’s activity related to terrorism in his hometown. Justice officials should at least show some curiosity about the subcommittee’s request as to whether there is circumstantial evidence linking two major domestic terrorist attacks. As a result, our investigation into this matter is incomplete.

Conclusions

Federal law enforcement has been accused of an institutional mind-set that congressional oversight is a nuisance to be avoided or blocked. That mind-set was painfully obvious during this subcommittee’s inquiry into the Oklahoma City bombing. If the Oversight and Investigations Subcommittee was successful, it should have resulted 12 in a positive affirmation of federal law enforcement’s willingness to find and share vital information.

Instead, Justice Department officials (and perhaps, the CIA) were less than responsive in crucial stages of this investigation, exemplifying needless defensiveness. Most of the official narrative of the OKBOMB investigation survives close scrutiny. However, this inquiry would have been significantly more complete with greater cooperation from federal law enforcement. Congressional investigators should not face such resistance in doing their job, which is to find the facts and determine the truth. Nevertheless, the Oversight and Investigations Subcommittee’s efforts uncovered significant new and relevant information not previously discovered or disclosed; however, unanswered questions and unresolved mysteries remain. Discoveries

�� In 2005, ten years after the bombing, after a tip to the FBI and Congress, a second stash of explosives was found under the floorboards of Terry Nichols’ house. It had been inexcusably missed during the FBI’s original searches.

�� Terry Nichols brought a book entitled The Chemistry of Powder and Explosives with him to the Philippines. This clearly suggests that sensual indulgence was not the only reason Nichols visited the Philippines.

�� Terry Nichols was responsible for the robbery of Arkansas gun dealer Roger Moore. Nichols acknowledged this for the first time in a two-hour prison interview with the chairman and staff of the Oversight and Investigations Subcommittee.

�� Ramzi Yousef called Mila Densing’s apartment on multiple occasions in the period leading up to the World Trade Center bombing in February 1993. The FBI failed to interview Densing, who was a friend and neighbor of the relatives of Marife, Terry Nichols’ Filipina wife.

�� Palestinian émigré Samir Khalil hired Iraqis who witnesses claim were with Tim McVeigh at the scene of the bombing. The name Samir Khalil appears on the list of possible unindicted coconspirators to the first World Trade Center bombing. �� Although there are indications that McVeigh may have been involved with the bank robbers along with Strassmeir, three of the bank robbers that the committee was able to contact, Langan, Stedeford and Brescia all denied being involved with McVeigh in anyway. Michael Brescia, a paroled Midwest Bank Robber, asserted to staff that he had never met Timothy McVeigh. McVeigh privately denied knowing Brescia in communications with his legal team.

�� McVeigh conceded to his legal team the OKBOMB conspiracy did begin September 13, 1994 with the passage of the assault weapons ban. Unanswered Questions

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�� While McVeigh affirmed that the OKBOMB conspiracy began in September 1994, it remains a question if there was a meeting with Elohim radicals, including Strassmeir, on or after that date. What has been verified is that on that day McVeigh checked into a motel that day near Elohim City.

�� Did McVeigh receive funds from the Midwest Bank Robbers?

�� Did Kevin McCarthy ever see Strassmeir with McVeigh or did he know of a friendship between them? For a time, McCarthy was Strassmeir’s roommate in Elohim City. After being arrested, another gang member suggested McCarthy had helped McVeigh with the Oklahoma City bombing.

�� Why has the Department of Justice been unable or unwilling to help the subcommittee locate Kevin McCarthy?

�� Where was Hussain Al-Hussaini the morning of April 19, 1995? �� Were the several reliable witnesses wrong when they claimed to have seen McVeigh with Hussaini?

�� Why was Terry Nichols concerned for his personal safety when he traveled to the Philippines in November 1994?

�� Why did Terry Nichols leave $20,000 in a package at his ex-wife Lana Padilla’s house before departing for the Philippines in November 1994? Where did Nichols get the money?

�� How did Terry Nichols, a man with no steady job or source of income, finance his five trips to the Philippines?

�� Why was an unaccounted-for leg found in the debris after the bombing?

�� Did Terry Nichols play a bigger role than he has admitted or has been thus far proven?

�� Why was there so little investigatory focus on Strassmeir and Hussaini?

�� Why the rush to rule out the existence of John Doe Two? Findings

1) The FBI was not justified in calling off any further investigation into John Doe Two.

2) The FBI did not thoroughly investigate the potential involvement of Andreas Strassmeir and Hussain al-Hussaini, et. al. despite evidence showing they may have played a role.

3) Authorities erred in allowing Timothy McVeigh to move forward the time of his execution while major questions remained about whether others were involved in the crime. 14

4) The DoJ has not seriously examined new information uncovered by this subcommittee. Specifically: phone records from Ramzi Yousef to a friend of Nichols’ in-laws as well as the name Samir Khalil appearing on an unindicted coconspirators World Trade Center bombing list.

5) Whether or not there was a foreign connection to the bombing is inconclusive. Questions remain unanswered and mysteries remain unresolved. Final Thoughts

The original date of the 2001 execution of Timothy McVeigh was postponed by 30 days, following the belated discovery of more than 3000 documents. The files related primarily to the question of John Doe Two and eyewitness sightings. These documents did not raise significant doubt about McVeigh’s guilt. Their disappearance, nevertheless, demonstrated that, despite multiple admonitions from the presiding judge and reassurances from law enforcement, the authorities missed key files in what was then the most prominent case in US legal history. We know now they even missed a second stash of explosives hidden in the Nichols house."
McVeigh Cited again as Reason for 'Right-Wing' Warning, Why Not Accomplices Hussain Al-Hussaini and Ramzi Yousef? - Atlas Shrugs