Time to get out.

[glockmail]

And I just can't for the life of me think why so many former allies no longer trust or like the US. It baffles me...

France was also our first enemy. In the last 100 years they have been fairly useless as an ally.

 

[ekrem]

Boo whoo.....

So in order to win back OUR GOOD OLE ALLIES......

We should put down our guns, and break out the knee pads......

They had no problem with us, when those guns were used to help save their asses.....

No, it does not mean that.
For Turkey to trust the USA, the ball is in US's playfield.

Just one order for US airforce to bomb that Kandil mountains in North-Iraq, so that no one stone stands the same way it stood.
Afterwards we can talk about Trust and Anti-terror.

It is not in Turkey's hand, and we will of course not make an unreturned move. We are waiting for the move of USA for more then 3 years now.
Waiting and watch Turkish people dying.

And you complain on Anti-Americaness in Turkish press?

 

[ekrem]

No, it does not mean that.
For Turkey to trust the USA, the ball is in US's playfield.

Just one order for US airforce to bomb that Kandil mountains in North-Iraq, so that no one stone stands the same way it stood.
Afterwards we can talk about Trust and Anti-terror.

It is not in Turkey's hand, and we will of course not make an unreturned move. We are waiting for the move of USA for more then 3 years now.
Waiting and watch Turkish people dying.

And you complain on Anti-Americaness in Turkish press?

The first week for example in media it is putting attention of USA to PKK.
The second week also, but with more harsh words.
The third week it is disappontment.
The fourth week it is frustration.
...
...
...
...
...
...
...
...
Somewehre between 150 and 170 weeks later, it is Anti-Americaness.
And whole readers went through the same mutation as Journalists did.
When there is no reason to talk or write good on USA, it will not be written good about USA and Pople will not think good about USA.

That's it.

 

[Mr.Conley]

We can't leave Iraq. We made the mess and now we have to clean it up. I don't like it, but we have to do it. Otherwise the world is going to be much worse off.

 

[Stephanie]

No, it does not mean that.
For Turkey to trust the USA, the ball is in US's playfield.

Just one order for US airforce to bomb that Kandil mountains in North-Iraq, so that no one stone stands the same way it stood.
Afterwards we can talk about Trust and Anti-terror.

It is not in Turkey's hand, and we will of course not make an unreturned move. We are waiting for the move of USA for more then 3 years now.
Waiting and watch Turkish people dying.

And you complain on Anti-Americaness in Turkish press?

My post was a response at another posters comment.....
I'm not sure what your saying in this post.....:scratch:

 

[Gunny]

My post was a response at another posters comment.....
I'm not sure what your saying in this post.....:scratch:

He's saying he wants the US to perpetrate genocide against the Kurds so Turkey will claim to be our "friend."

Maybe the US should just bomb Turkey until there is no stone left unturned?

 

[onedomino]

One of the results of the Turks failing to help America in Iraq is that the PKK is better positioned to reduce political stability in southeastern Turkey. Given the way that Ankara behaves toward Washington, I see no reason why America should intervene on behalf of the Turks against the Kurds, who have been oppressed in Turkey, Syria, Iraq, and Iran, for many decades. In fact, perhaps the US should close its airbase at Incirlik, Turkey, and open new bases in Tbilisi, Yerevan, and Mosul. Moreover, America should consider canceling the sale of F-35 fighters to Ankara. At this point in US-Turkey relations, why should America build up the strength of the Turkish air force? Maybe Ankara will like the fighters they can obtain from the French or the Russians. Turkey will not have a problem buying the inferior Rafael fighter plane, as the French will trip over themselves to sell anything to anybody. After all, Chirac was recently in China whining that the EU should lift its arms embargo against Beijing. However, the Turks will need to be careful when traveling to France because the French National Assembly recently passed a bill authorizing criminal prosecution for anyone who denies the Armenian genocide.

 

[LuvRPgrl]

And I just can't for the life of me think why so many former allies no longer trust or like the US. It baffles me...

You are baffled cuz you have your head so far up your ass.

Germany, France and Russia didnt want to invade Iraq because they got caught in the food for oil scam and other illegal activities that got exposed when we found the documents. They couldnt simply say, "oh, now that we have been caught, we can support the US now"

But you knew that. You are like those who twist Stay The Course into making it sound like we dont adapt and improvise, like CSM said. You are one of the liberal lying pieces of shit cowards. Move to fucking France grumpy.

 

[Dr Grump]

You are baffled cuz you have your head so far up your ass.

Germany, France and Russia didnt want to invade Iraq because they got caught in the food for oil scam and other illegal activities that got exposed when we found the documents. They couldnt simply say, "oh, now that we have been caught, we can support the US now"

But you knew that. You are like those who twist Stay The Course into making it sound like we dont adapt and improvise, like CSM said. You are one of the liberal lying pieces of shit cowards. Move to fucking France grumpy.

Have another drink Dial-A-Bride Boy....:alco:

 

[onedomino]

You are baffled cuz you have your head so far up your ass.

Are you capable of discussing anything without resorting to personal defamation? You give crude people a bad name. Why can't Dr. Grump or others have a different view without people like you issuing disrespectful, vile remarks? The best place for you is on the "ignore" list, which is where you are going now.

 

[Dr Grump]

One of the results of the Turks failing to help America in Iraq is that the PKK is better positioned to reduce political stability in southeastern Turkey.

What makes you think that? That region of Turkey has always been relatively unstable, both pre and post invasion of Iraq...

Lvrrpgrl is the epitome of good manners... certainly gives conservatives a good name!

 

[onedomino]

What makes you think that? That region of Turkey has always been relatively unstable, both pre and post invasion of Iraq..

Because before the invasion the Kurds were very suppressed (sometimes mass murdered) on the Iraqi side of the border. Thus support for Kurdish rebellion in SE Turkey was very difficult to achieve from across the border in Iraq. Now the Kurds have lots of political power and access to small arms, and as you know, they do not really recognize the border between Iraq and Turkey; greater Kurdistan extends across territory from at least five countries. If the Turks had helped America in 2003, instead of blocking the 4th ID, then they could have extended their political and military power into northern Iraq. When they did not help America, the opposite occurred as Kurdish power in the region grew.

 

[ekrem]

(...)

Maybe the US should just bomb Turkey until there is no stone left unturned?

Maybe Turkey should arm "insurgents" in Iraq ? And give them real NATO military tactics.

 

[ekrem]

Because before the invasion the Kurds were very suppressed (sometimes mass murdered) on the Iraqi side of the border. Thus support for Kurdish rebellion in SE Turkey was very difficult to achieve from across the border in Iraq. Now the Kurds have lots of political power and access to small arms, and as you know, they do not really recognize the border between Iraq and Turkey; greater Kurdistan extends across territory from at least five countries. If the Turks had helped America in 2003, instead of blocking the 4th ID, then they could have extended their political and military power into northern Iraq. When they did not help America, the opposite occurred as Kurdish power in the region grew.

The war is not over because people like you continue to believe such nonsense from your "Mr.-140.000-US-Soldier-are-enough-and-will-be-awaited-with-flowers"-Defence Minister.
You have a lack on competence in your defence ministry.
Not Turkey's fault.

 

[onedomino]

Maybe Turkey should arm "insurgents" in Iraq ? And give them real NATO military tactics.

Do you think that Turkey will have more nerve for that, than it has displayed for fighting the Taliban as part of NATO forces in Afghanistan?

 

[onedomino]

The war is not over because people like you continue to believe such nonsense from your "Mr.-140.000-US-Soldier-are-enough-and-will-be-awaited-with-flowers"-Defence Minister.
You have a lack on competence in your defence ministry.
Not Turkey's fault.

Twelve million people in Iraq voted for democratic government. Perhaps if America had any help at all from states like Turkey, France, Germany, Russia, Saudi Arabia, and others, then the insurgency would already be suppressed. But no, countries like yours do nothing except sit back and criticize. We will stay until the insurgents are defeated, and we will remember who helped us, and who did not. And nobody said the war was Turkey's fault. I was commenting on the lack of value of having Turkey as an "ally." That was dramatically demonstrated in 2003 at the beginning of the war when Turkey refused to let the US Army (in particular the 4th ID) through Turkey into northern Iraq. That was certainly not the action of an American ally. I guess that was the thanks America got for helping to protect Turkey from the Soviets for more than 40 years. What a waste of American money, equipment, and personnel that was. Thus I suggest that America should close it airbase in Turkey and reopen in Georgia and Armenia. You remember Armenia, right? And if it ever comes to choosing between the Turks and the Kurds, the choice would be easy.

 

[ekrem]

Twelve million people in Iraq voted for democratic government. Perhaps if America had any help at all from states like Turkey, France, Germany, Russia, Saudi Arabia, and others, then the insurgency would already be suppressed. But no, countries like yours do nothing except sit back and criticize. We will stay until the insurgents are defeated, and we will remember who helped us, and who did not. And nobody said the war was Turkey's fault. I was commenting on the lack of value of having Turkey as an "ally." That was dramatically demonstrated in 2003 at the beginning of the war when Turkey refused to let the US Army (in particular the 4th ID) through Turkey into northern Iraq. That was certainly not the action of an American ally. I guess that was the thanks America got for helping to protect Turkey from the Soviets for more than 40 years. What a waste of American money, equipment, and personnel that was. Thus I suggest that America should close it airbase in Turkey and reopen in Georgia and Armenia. You remember Armenia, right? And if it ever comes to choosing between the Turks and the Kurds, the choice would be easy.

I would recommend you to read better the caucasus.
Armenia is a satellite state of Russia and is Iran's proxy in the caucasus.
The russian bases and soldiers in Georgia are moved to Armenia where Russia operates some bases and at that time is expanding its base in Armenian city of Gyumri.

The axis on the caucasus are Azerbaycan-Georgia-Turkey and on the other side
Russia-Armenia-Iran.
You can not threaten us with Georgia. Turkey has extensive cooperation with Georgia and train their soldiers and officers. In Georgia there is being built 2 Nato-compatible bases. One is built by Turkey, the other by France.
Turkey is one of the strongest lobbyist og Georgian membership into NATO.

And Turkey every year gives Georgia 40 Mio Dollar for its military budget.
Georgia's military budget

grew almost five-fold in just over three years.

http://www.itar-tass.com/eng/level2.html?NewsID=10904641&PageNum=0

In 2006 it was 340 Million. So in 2006 Turkey financed about 15 % og Georgia's military budget.
OIn previous years, before Georgian Military budget grew fivefold, this was relatively more.

I don't get your Americans point of always mentioning Incirlik.
As if Turkey would go down, when Turkey would not rent that base any more to USA. Surely not.

 

[onedomino]

I would recommend you to read better the caucasus.
Armenia is a satellite state of Russia and is Iran's proxy in the caucasus.
The russian bases and soldiers in Georgia are moved to Armenia where Russia operates some bases and at that time is expanding its base in Armenian city of Gyumri.

The axis on the caucasus are Azerbaycan-Georgia-Turkey and on the other side
Russia-Armenia-Iran.
You can not threaten us with Georgia. Turkey has extensive cooperation with Georgia and train their soldiers and officers. In Georgia there is being built 2 Nato-compatible bases. One is built by Turkey, the other by France.
Turkey is one of the strongest lobbyist og Georgian membership into NATO.

And Turkey every year gives Georgia 40 Mio Dollar for its military budget.
Georgia's military budget

http://www.itar-tass.com/eng/level2.html?NewsID=10904641&PageNum=0

In 2006 it was 340 Million. So in 2006 Turkey financed about 15 % og Georgia's military budget.
OIn previous years, before Georgian Military budget grew fivefold, this was relatively more.

I don't get your Americans point of always mentioning Incirlik.
As if Turkey would go down, when Turkey would not rent that base any more to USA. Surely not.

I am not threatening Turkey, just trying to adapt to its unfriendly behavior. America cannot cruise along with Turkey like nothing has changed. It is clear that Turkey is no longer, if it ever was, an ally of America. Do you think it is trying to buy F-35s because it likes America? Hardly. It is trying to obtain F-35s because it is the best equipment and because it could not buy from the French or Russians without even more political embarrassment. You never addressed my point about Turkey turning its back on America in 2003. We were not even asking for troops. Just a road to the border and the Turkish Parliment slapped America down. You are right about Armenia but the situation has a chance to improve.

 

[Gunny]

Maybe Turkey should arm "insurgents" in Iraq ? And give them real NATO military tactics.

Wouldn't surprise me a bit if it wasn't ALREADY happening.

"NATO tactics?" You mean organize that rabble of murdering scumbags into a "real" army and have them execute actual battlefield strategy and tactics? Separate them from the population centers and women's skirts and daycares they hide behind to actually face off against the US military on a battlefield?

Please DO.

You're too brainwashed in your own nationalism to comprehend the reality of some of the junk you suggest.

 

[Gunny]

Twelve million people in Iraq voted for democratic government. Perhaps if America had any help at all from states like Turkey, France, Germany, Russia, Saudi Arabia, and others, then the insurgency would already be suppressed. But no, countries like yours do nothing except sit back and criticize. We will stay until the insurgents are defeated, and we will remember who helped us, and who did not. And nobody said the war was Turkey's fault. I was commenting on the lack of value of having Turkey as an "ally." That was dramatically demonstrated in 2003 at the beginning of the war when Turkey refused to let the US Army (in particular the 4th ID) through Turkey into northern Iraq. That was certainly not the action of an American ally. I guess that was the thanks America got for helping to protect Turkey from the Soviets for more than 40 years. What a waste of American money, equipment, and personnel that was. Thus I suggest that America should close it airbase in Turkey and reopen in Georgia and Armenia. You remember Armenia, right? And if it ever comes to choosing between the Turks and the Kurds, the choice would be easy.

Pretty-much sums it up. Of course, he has a snappy comeback. I've pointed this out before.