Toddler finds mother shot dead in Umm al-Fahm

[proudveteran06]

WHERE IN THE QUORAN DOES IT SAY THAT? We have already established The Torah sanctions honor killings.

Even if the Torah dies sanction Honor Killings, so what? Is it taught? More importantly, it is done should be the question. This " Christian" married to a Muslim still denies that Islam sanctions it and there are laws on the books that ALLOW MEN TO DO THIS !

Islam no more sanctions honor killing then does Christianity or Judaism.

What laws on what books of what countries?

If something isn't " outlawed" or stopped; If it's allowed to continue then it's defined as legal. Get it? Of course not.

Your Friend states that Honor Killings are mentioned in the Torah. Why don't you challenge her? Of course you wont; She's a Pro Palestinian ; You Hypocrite


Click here: Abbas aide: No plans to outlaw 'honor killing' | Maan News Agency


Abbas aide: No plans to outlaw 'honor killing' | Maan News Agency



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Abbas aide: No plans to outlaw 'honor killing'


Published Monday 24/12/2012 (updated) 29/01/2013 16:02






Police arrest a man accused of killing his niece, Aya Baradiya, in Hebron,
May 12, 2011. (MaanImages/Mohammad Owawy)

By Soraya Al-Ghussein and Hannah Patchett

RAMALLAH (Ma'an) -- President Mahmoud Abbas has no plans to amend laws that reduce sentences for suspects who claim an "honor" defense for murdering women, his legal adviser says.

"Why change it? This would cause serious problems," Hassan al-Ouri told Ma'an, adding that such a reform would "not benefit women."

In May 2011, the president pledged to amend the law to guarantee maximum penalties for "honor killing" in response to protests over the killing of university student Aya Baradiya in Hebron.

The decision was announced in a phone call to a primetime show on state TV, drawing tears among crowds of mourners shown in a live link-up from the Ramallah studio to Baradiya’s hometown.

Abbas suspended Article 340, which offers a pardon for murder if the perpetrator committed the crime on finding his wife in bed with another man.

The reform was cosmetic: Article 340 had never been used in Palestinian courts since it was legislated in 1960.

"So why did we change the law? To garner public opinion," al-Ouri said in an interview in the presidential compound in Ramallah.

"I, personally, was against the amendment because the crimes that happen in the street have no relevance to Article 340," the legal adviser added.

Al-Ouri says the president will not change the go-to clauses for lawyers seeking leniency for clients who claim they committed murder to defend family "honor."

Articles 97 to 100 of the Jordanian Penal Code, in force in the West Bank, still offer reduced sentences for any act of battery or murder committed in a "state of rage."

"The (law) only addresses 1 percent of the problem. What we need is a new culture," al-Ouri said.

Other officials insist the penal code is the problem.

The law "privileges the killer," Interior Ministry official Haitham Arrar told Ma'an.

"It encourages some people to commit crimes against women, which will go (as far as) killing them," said Arrar, who heads the ministry's democracy and human rights unit.

Abbas fears 'conservative forces'

The Palestinian Legislative Council has not met since 2007, when Hamas and Fatah split, but women's rights expert Soraida Hussein dismisses arguments that reforms must wait until parliament reconvenes.

"For us, for women, all this is irrelevant," said Hussein, general director of the Women's Technical Affairs Committee, an umbrella group of women’s organizations. "Until now, our lives -- in law and in practice -- are seen as less than men's."

The president should issue a decree that "anybody killing anyone else will be sentenced to the highest sentence possible, whether it is a woman or a boy," says Hussein.

"The minute the law is changed and applied, the minute people will think twice," she says. "It's simple and it's not done."

Hussein suggests Abbas is hesitant to pass legal reforms because "he is not ready yet to confront conservative forces."

In 2009, Abbas ratified the UN Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women, but al-Ouri, the legal adviser, says it will only be implemented "so long as it doesn’t contravene Islamic code."

"Look, we are for total equality but if there is a basic tenet of Islamic code that we would be forced to change under CEDAW, then people would revolt and brand us as non-believers," al-Ouri said.

'Dressing up honor'

Lax laws encourage murder suspects to claim "honor" in their defense, officials and women’s rights activists say.

"Because the penalty is one or two months, they consider killing her and dress it up as honor," Minister of Women's Affairs Rahiba Diab told Ma'an.

Khawla al-Azraq, who runs a women’s counseling center in Bethlehem, notes that femicide is a global issue but "now in Palestine, they call this honor killing."

"Sometimes these girls are abused by someone in the family and they need to cover this (up) and they kill her; sometimes because they need her money," she says. "These are the real reasons for killing."

"In Palestine, this is the gap, that until now we don’t have our own legislation that really can protect women."

The Independent Commission of Human Rights says 13 women have been killed this year, but the real figure is likely to be higher.

"There has been historically a problem of documentation," says Hussein, the women's rights expert. The cause of suspicious deaths of women was often recorded as "fate," which could refer to forced "suicides" or being pushed from a building, she explained.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Honor killings are unlawful, your own article says that.

 

[Coyote]

Even if the Torah dies sanction Honor Killings, so what? Is it taught? More importantly, it is done should be the question. This " Christian" married to a Muslim still denies that Islam sanctions it and there are laws on the books that ALLOW MEN TO DO THIS !

Islam no more sanctions honor killing then does Christianity or Judaism.

What laws on what books of what countries?

If something isn't " outlawed" or stopped; If it's allowed to continue then it's defined as legal. Get it? Of course not.

Your Friend states that Honor Killings are mentioned in the Torah. Why don't you challenge her? Of course you wont; She's a Pro Palestinian ; You Hypocrite

I don't know about the Torah, but the OT is full of honor killings. It was part of the ME culture. You idiot.

(I'd be careful about calling others hypocrites when you consistently refuse to call out your own).

Click here: Abbas aide: No plans to outlaw 'honor killing' | Maan News Agency

You keep bringing up Abbas' aid's statement as if it's supposed to mean anything?


From reading the article, Abbas is one man, in one non-country, with weak political power - and the issue he is talking about - the potential conflict with conservative forces over more liberal ones is a valid one (for example - if he clashed, and lost to the religious conservatives - it could take Palestinians into worse situation). Other than that - what he is discussing isn't even about "outlawing" honor killing - it's already against the law, but the penalty for the crime is a lesser one then for other murders (that is how I'm reading it).

 

[irosie91]

The old testament is not full of honor killings of the kind that
are popping out like popped corn in any place where muslims
live. We are having problems with this discussion because
even with the definitions provided---we have not defined
our terms precisely We should use examples of recently
published cases. Girls being killed for wanting to have
a job. girls being killed for not wanting to marry the
chosen guy, girls being killed for looking at a boy
or meeting one in a corner. Dinah was mentioned
in a citation -----SHE went out of her way to meet
people ON HER OWN in shechem ----the story
was the boys of shechem screwed her or something
like that. HER BROTHERS DID NOT KILL HER.
Today in many muslim countries----such a girl
killed by male family members would be considered
properly killed, In islamic law she could not claim
rape ----even if it was rape-----because she WENT
OUT UNACCOMPANIED <<<< them's the facts


I learned about islamic law from muslims and ---dhimmis

 

[proudveteran06]

Honor killings are unlawful, your own article says that.

If something is " Unlawful" yet allowed with NO attempts to stop it what does that mean to you? It goes on, Abbas has stated he DOES NOT ATTEMPT TO PUT A STOP TO IT! If this was going on in Israel ;you Christian Hypocrite your reaction would be quite different!

 

[ForeverYoung436]

what culture was that?

The indiginous cultures of the Middle East which produced the OT and NT and Koran.



They are all essentially the same when it comes to the treatment and regard of women. All of those ancient cultures intermingled in the same area and can not be easily be seperated out distinct. Simply reading the OT and the Koran and looking at the the role of women in the most conservative sects of all 3 religions born of that region is telling.

As far as "rejection" of things pre-Islamic, that seems doubtful since a great deal of learning was preserved by Arab scholars (including pre-Islamic Roman and Greek material) during the so-called Dark Ages.

the statement that "HONOR KILLINGS" (notably without a definition
of honor killings) characterized all cultures of the ancient world
is about as shallow as any statement can be

It's been defined, multiple times in these discussions. I'll help you out be defining it yet again, from the same source (Wiki): Honor killing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

An honor killing, or honour killing[1] is the homicide of a member of a family or social group by other members, due to the belief of the perpetrators that the victim has brought dishonor upon the family or community.

The perceived dishonor is normally the result of one of the following behaviors, or the suspicion of such behaviors: dressing in a manner unacceptable to the family or community, wanting to terminate or prevent an arranged marriage or desiring to marry by own choice, especially if to a member of a social group deemed inappropriate, engaging in heterosexual acts outside marriage and engaging in homosexual acts. Honor killings have been labeled as a form of gender apartheid.[2]​

Secondly, I didn't say "honor killing characterized all cultures of the ancient world" - however much of the ancient world - in particular the ME regions - held women in poor regard in terms of rights, power, freedom. In addition, allegience to family/tribe and it's honor was held far higher than individualism in those cultures.

A good look at the ancient history of honor killing, including the many biblical references and instances: Rabbi Michael Leo Samuel » Blog Archive » Honor Killings in Antiquity (2/2)

I would suggest that the only shallowness lies in your own response and your inner need to maintain the fiction that ancient Arabs were uniquely loathsome in the ancient world.

wrong again-----I did not even mention the culture of ancient arabia----
for good reason-----As far as I know ----there is very little information on
the actual culture of ancient arabia ----I wish they would dig the place up
and work it out

Your citation is excellent------it fully supports everything I have posted
about the situation-----your problem is you do not know the biblical references
----and do not understand the article ----just as an example----the story
of DINAH-----no question her brothers blamed her for GADDING about
with those guys from shechem (which btw is nablus) and no doubt
her BROTHERS ----simon and levi ----went off to shechem to punch them out--
but ----levi and simon was PUT DOWN for that unwarranted and---barbaric
act by JACOB--(aka israel) in his death bed speech when he names
judah his successor---------you need to read the whole bible---Jacob
virtually calls them stupid thugs (jacob is the important guy)

as to the other examples of bible history-----they are just that-----historic
account---and most pre-date ---LAW You confuse acknowleged
CRIME with custom and more'

you should read the article again----and consider when and in what
context the examples take place

as to EZEKIEL he did not describe law or custom---he described something
he considered HORRIBLE that could happen -----the DURER of his day---

you probably did not understand the SOTAH thing----it refers to a trial
for adultery----in which a woman drinks something----that is supposed
to cause her to drop dead if she is guilty------no one ever died from it---
it was more a conciliation procedure than a trial (and they lived happily
ever after)

There is no mention in the Torah of Dinah's brothers blaming her. On the contrary, they came to her defense by killing her attackers.

 

[proudveteran06]

Islam no more sanctions honor killing then does Christianity or Judaism.

What laws on what books of what countries?

If something isn't " outlawed" or stopped; If it's allowed to continue then it's defined as legal. Get it? Of course not.

Your Friend states that Honor Killings are mentioned in the Torah. Why don't you challenge her? Of course you wont; She's a Pro Palestinian ; You Hypocrite

I don't know about the Torah, but the OT is full of honor killings. It was part of the ME culture. You idiot.

(I'd be careful about calling others hypocrites when you consistently refuse to call out your own).

Click here: Abbas aide: No plans to outlaw 'honor killing' | Maan News Agency

You keep bringing up Abbas' aid's statement as if it's supposed to mean anything?


From reading the article, Abbas is one man, in one non-country, with weak political power - and the issue he is talking about - the potential conflict with conservative forces over more liberal ones is a valid one (for example - if he clashed, and lost to the religious conservatives - it could take Palestinians into worse situation). Other than that - what he is discussing isn't even about "outlawing" honor killing - it's already against the law, but the penalty for the crime is a lesser one then for other murders (that is how I'm reading it).

So Honor Killings are mentioned in the Old Testament; What's your point? Do the Jewish people practice it You Moron?

" Honor Killings" may be " against the law" but it is done , overlooked, and excused!


SMALL EXAMPLE OF WHAT IS STARTING TO HAPPEN IN THIS COUNTRY!


Upstate Man Charged With Beheading His Estranged Wife

By LIZ ROBBINS

Published: February 17, 2009


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A man who founded a Muslim American television station to help fight Muslim stereotypes is to appear on Wednesday in a suburban Buffalo court on charges that he decapitated his wife last week.




Enlarge This Image

Bridges TV, via Associated Press

Aasiya and Muzzammil Hassan in an undated photo.



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The man, Muzzammil Hassan, 44, went to a police station in Orchard Park, N.Y., on Thursday to report that his wife, Aasiya Zubair Hassan, was dead, Chief Andrew Benz said on Tuesday. Mr. Hassan told the police that her body could be found in the nearby office of the television station, Bridges TV. The police later arrested him on charges of second-degree murder, Chief Benz said.

On Feb. 6, Ms. Hassan, 37, filed for divorce and obtained an order of protection against Mr. Hassan, Chief Benz said.

It was unclear on Tuesday night whether Mr. Hassan had legal representation.

The news of the killing stunned Buffalo, a city already overwhelmed with emotion by the commuter plane crash that killed 50 people in the hamlet of Clarence Center on Thursday.

The gruesome death of Ms. Hassan prompted outrage from Muslim leaders after suggestions that it had been some kind of “honor killing” based on religious or cultural beliefs.

Dr. Sawsan Tabbaa, a Muslim community leader who teaches orthodontia at the State University at Buffalo, said, “This is not an honor killing, no way.”

Dr. Tabbaa added, “It has nothing to do with his faith.”

At the Muslim Community Center in Amherst, N.Y., on Tuesday, Dr. Tabbaa joined more than 200 others for early morning prayers and a funeral service for Ms. Hassan, who had been active at the center’s mosque.

“She was more of a practicing Muslim” than her husband, said Hassan Shibly, Dr. Tabbaa’s son, who worked for the television station with the Hassans before going to law school. “She really believed in the cause, wanting to present her faith in an accurate light and now people are blaming her very faith for her death.”

Rabbi Bradley Hirschfeld, the president of the National Jewish Center for Learning and Leadership in New York, worked with Ms. Hassan, who was a programmer at the station, for three years and said they were good friends. He said that when he first met Mr. Hassan, he considered him smart and charming.

Rabbi Hirschfeld said Ms. Hassan had confided in him a few years ago about incidents of domestic abuse, but at the time she insisted that her husband was getting counseling. She later told Rabbi Hirschfeld that the counselor had told her she was safe.

“I knew there were issues in the marriage,” Rabbi Hirschfeld said. “I didn’t know it was this bad. My immediate response is horror and incredible sadness.”

The Associated Press reported on Tuesday that the police had responded in the past to domestic dispute calls at the Hassan house.

The couple have two children in elementary school and Mr. Hassan has two teenage children from a previous marriage, friends of the couple said.

At the television station on Tuesday, bouquets of flowers were left next to the locked door. One had a note: “In memory of Aasiya. May Allah keep you at peace and from any more harm.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/18/nyregion/18behead.html?_r=0

Click here: Upstate New York Man Charged With Beheading His Estranged Wife - NYTimes.com

 

[irosie91]

Honor killings are unlawful, your own article says that.

yes---in muslim countries today----most do not allow honor murder---
but the issue of honor mitigates << this is a remnant of times when
they were legal and it indicates a level of ideological approval.

You credit all kinds of "human rights" organizations with being
absolutely accurate----- Turkey is known to have a very high
FEMALE SUICIDE RATE-----which human rights activists have
described as a cover story for prevalent "HONOR" murders

 

[irosie91]

The indiginous cultures of the Middle East which produced the OT and NT and Koran.



They are all essentially the same when it comes to the treatment and regard of women. All of those ancient cultures intermingled in the same area and can not be easily be seperated out distinct. Simply reading the OT and the Koran and looking at the the role of women in the most conservative sects of all 3 religions born of that region is telling.

As far as "rejection" of things pre-Islamic, that seems doubtful since a great deal of learning was preserved by Arab scholars (including pre-Islamic Roman and Greek material) during the so-called Dark Ages.



It's been defined, multiple times in these discussions. I'll help you out be defining it yet again, from the same source (Wiki): Honor killing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

An honor killing, or honour killing[1] is the homicide of a member of a family or social group by other members, due to the belief of the perpetrators that the victim has brought dishonor upon the family or community.

The perceived dishonor is normally the result of one of the following behaviors, or the suspicion of such behaviors: dressing in a manner unacceptable to the family or community, wanting to terminate or prevent an arranged marriage or desiring to marry by own choice, especially if to a member of a social group deemed inappropriate, engaging in heterosexual acts outside marriage and engaging in homosexual acts. Honor killings have been labeled as a form of gender apartheid.[2]​

Secondly, I didn't say "honor killing characterized all cultures of the ancient world" - however much of the ancient world - in particular the ME regions - held women in poor regard in terms of rights, power, freedom. In addition, allegience to family/tribe and it's honor was held far higher than individualism in those cultures.

A good look at the ancient history of honor killing, including the many biblical references and instances: Rabbi Michael Leo Samuel » Blog Archive » Honor Killings in Antiquity (2/2)

I would suggest that the only shallowness lies in your own response and your inner need to maintain the fiction that ancient Arabs were uniquely loathsome in the ancient world.

wrong again-----I did not even mention the culture of ancient arabia----
for good reason-----As far as I know ----there is very little information on
the actual culture of ancient arabia ----I wish they would dig the place up
and work it out

Your citation is excellent------it fully supports everything I have posted
about the situation-----your problem is you do not know the biblical references
----and do not understand the article ----just as an example----the story
of DINAH-----no question her brothers blamed her for GADDING about
with those guys from shechem (which btw is nablus) and no doubt
her BROTHERS ----simon and levi ----went off to shechem to punch them out--
but ----levi and simon was PUT DOWN for that unwarranted and---barbaric
act by JACOB--(aka israel) in his death bed speech when he names
judah his successor---------you need to read the whole bible---Jacob
virtually calls them stupid thugs (jacob is the important guy)

as to the other examples of bible history-----they are just that-----historic
account---and most pre-date ---LAW You confuse acknowleged
CRIME with custom and more'

you should read the article again----and consider when and in what
context the examples take place

as to EZEKIEL he did not describe law or custom---he described something
he considered HORRIBLE that could happen -----the DURER of his day---

you probably did not understand the SOTAH thing----it refers to a trial
for adultery----in which a woman drinks something----that is supposed
to cause her to drop dead if she is guilty------no one ever died from it---
it was more a conciliation procedure than a trial (and they lived happily
ever after)

There is no mention in the Torah of Dinah's brothers blaming her. On the contrary, they came to her defense by killing her attackers.

Its in some commentary or mishnah-----the thing is used as a cautionary
tale -----girls should not take chances like DINAH DID and there is something
---vague to me now---of them keeping her in a barrel ---either on the way back from
or to shechem-------to giver her the idea that she should be HIDDEN--or some
weird thing like that. The only people Jacob seems to blame ---are his two
idiot sons----levi and simon-------and reuben gets blamed for being an idiot
too-----for trying to seduce someone ------so JUDAH---the fourth son gets to
be named heir--------I like that speech----its actually humorous ------jacob
telling his three oldest sons what jerks they are. Somehow LEVI gets to be
the ancestor of Moses anyway the levites win in the end. As to
DINAH---jacob is angry about the WHOLE EPISODE -----an unnecessay battle
with the people of shechem ----bothered him------so what has happened
to his house now???? WE GOT NABLUS

thems that troubleth their own house eth----inherits NABLUS

 

[Coyote]

If something isn't " outlawed" or stopped; If it's allowed to continue then it's defined as legal. Get it? Of course not.

Your Friend states that Honor Killings are mentioned in the Torah. Why don't you challenge her? Of course you wont; She's a Pro Palestinian ; You Hypocrite

I don't know about the Torah, but the OT is full of honor killings. It was part of the ME culture. You idiot.

(I'd be careful about calling others hypocrites when you consistently refuse to call out your own).

Click here: Abbas aide: No plans to outlaw 'honor killing' | Maan News Agency

You keep bringing up Abbas' aid's statement as if it's supposed to mean anything?


From reading the article, Abbas is one man, in one non-country, with weak political power - and the issue he is talking about - the potential conflict with conservative forces over more liberal ones is a valid one (for example - if he clashed, and lost to the religious conservatives - it could take Palestinians into worse situation). Other than that - what he is discussing isn't even about "outlawing" honor killing - it's already against the law, but the penalty for the crime is a lesser one then for other murders (that is how I'm reading it).

So Honor Killings are mentioned in the Old Testament; What's your point? Do the Jewish people practice it You Moron?

Let me simplify, hypocrite.

Your previous claims (which are getting kind of confusing) are that honor killing is part of Islam, and a quote was given from the Quran to supposedly support it (striking a woman).

My point is you can find similar quotes in the OT that even better support it. My claim is it's the culture and it's been practiced in the ME by people of all religions within those cultures, as well as in other countries around the world.

Most Jewish people are far removed from the culture that practices honor killing due to the diaspora - but there are still many Muslims (and Christians, Druze, etc) in those countries who are not. Yet, Muslims in Indonesia - the country with the largest population of Muslims, rarely have honor killings and Hindus and Sikhs in areas India do. The point is - religion has little to do with it.

" Honor Killings" may be " against the law" but it is done , overlooked, and excused!

Ok, you're moving the goalposts by admitting it is against the law.

I agree - it is way overlooked, excused and the penalties horribly low, but that is not just in the Middle East or Muslim countries. Look at India. It's a serious problem but by focusing on it as a Muslim problem, you are ignoring the reality and "excusing" it in non-Muslim countries.

SMALL EXAMPLE OF WHAT IS STARTING TO HAPPEN IN THIS COUNTRY!

Oh bullshit. That's just fear mongering. Honor killings are very rare in this country and what's more the Muslim community in the US is vocally unified in opposition to that crime. Your article was from 2009 - not even very current.

 

[proudveteran06]

I don't know about the Torah, but the OT is full of honor killings. It was part of the ME culture. You idiot.

(I'd be careful about calling others hypocrites when you consistently refuse to call out your own).




You keep bringing up Abbas' aid's statement as if it's supposed to mean anything?


From reading the article, Abbas is one man, in one non-country, with weak political power - and the issue he is talking about - the potential conflict with conservative forces over more liberal ones is a valid one (for example - if he clashed, and lost to the religious conservatives - it could take Palestinians into worse situation). Other than that - what he is discussing isn't even about "outlawing" honor killing - it's already against the law, but the penalty for the crime is a lesser one then for other murders (that is how I'm reading it).

So Honor Killings are mentioned in the Old Testament; What's your point? Do the Jewish people practice it You Moron?

Let me simplify, hypocrite.

Your previous claims (which are getting kind of confusing) are that honor killing is part of Islam, and a quote was given from the Quran to supposedly support it (striking a woman).

My point is you can find similar quotes in the OT that even better support it. My claim is it's the culture and it's been practiced in the ME by people of all religions within those cultures, as well as in other countries around the world.

Most Jewish people are far removed from the culture that practices honor killing due to the diaspora - but there are still many Muslims (and Christians, Druze, etc) in those countries who are not. Yet, Muslims in Indonesia - the country with the largest population of Muslims, rarely have honor killings and Hindus and Sikhs in areas India do. The point is - religion has little to do with it.

" Honor Killings" may be " against the law" but it is done , overlooked, and excused!

Ok, you're moving the goalposts by admitting it is against the law.

I agree - it is way overlooked, excused and the penalties horribly low, but that is not just in the Middle East or Muslim countries. Look at India. It's a serious problem but by focusing on it as a Muslim problem, you are ignoring the reality and "excusing" it in non-Muslim countries.

SMALL EXAMPLE OF WHAT IS STARTING TO HAPPEN IN THIS COUNTRY!

Oh bullshit. That's just fear mongering. Honor killings are very rare in this country and what's more the Muslim community in the US is vocally unified in opposition to that crime. Your article was from 2009 - not even very current.

You're right. " Honor Killings" are very rare in this Country but until recently we haven't had them at all. Which Group? Hint.... It's not the Hindus. My post was just one example.

I am not " moving the Goalposts" by admitting it's against the law lol. In " palestine" they declared they have no intention of making it illegal. ( Just one example)

" Honor Killing" is a part of Islam just like some practices in the Catholic Church that are not written anywhere in some historical text. (Ex. Not eating meat on Friday)

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

So Honor Killings are mentioned in the Old Testament; What's your point? Do the Jewish people practice it You Moron?

Let me simplify, hypocrite.

Your previous claims (which are getting kind of confusing) are that honor killing is part of Islam, and a quote was given from the Quran to supposedly support it (striking a woman).

My point is you can find similar quotes in the OT that even better support it. My claim is it's the culture and it's been practiced in the ME by people of all religions within those cultures, as well as in other countries around the world.

Most Jewish people are far removed from the culture that practices honor killing due to the diaspora - but there are still many Muslims (and Christians, Druze, etc) in those countries who are not. Yet, Muslims in Indonesia - the country with the largest population of Muslims, rarely have honor killings and Hindus and Sikhs in areas India do. The point is - religion has little to do with it.



Ok, you're moving the goalposts by admitting it is against the law.

I agree - it is way overlooked, excused and the penalties horribly low, but that is not just in the Middle East or Muslim countries. Look at India. It's a serious problem but by focusing on it as a Muslim problem, you are ignoring the reality and "excusing" it in non-Muslim countries.

SMALL EXAMPLE OF WHAT IS STARTING TO HAPPEN IN THIS COUNTRY!

Oh bullshit. That's just fear mongering. Honor killings are very rare in this country and what's more the Muslim community in the US is vocally unified in opposition to that crime. Your article was from 2009 - not even very current.

You're right. " Honor Killings" are very rare in this Country but until recently we haven't had them at all. Which Group? Hint.... It's not the Hindus. My post was just one example.

I am not " moving the Goalposts" by admitting it's against the law lol. In " palestine" they declared they have no intention of making it illegal. ( Just one example)

" Honor Killing" is a part of Islam just like some practices in the Catholic Church that are not written anywhere in some historical text. (Ex. Not eating meat on Friday)

Will you ever stop repeating this lie that honor killings are lawful in Palestine? They are not. WILL you ever stop repeating this lie that honor killings are a part of Islam ? THEY ARE NOT. STOP LYING.

 

[Hossfly]

So Honor Killings are mentioned in the Old Testament; What's your point? Do the Jewish people practice it You Moron?

Let me simplify, hypocrite.

Your previous claims (which are getting kind of confusing) are that honor killing is part of Islam, and a quote was given from the Quran to supposedly support it (striking a woman).

My point is you can find similar quotes in the OT that even better support it. My claim is it's the culture and it's been practiced in the ME by people of all religions within those cultures, as well as in other countries around the world.

Most Jewish people are far removed from the culture that practices honor killing due to the diaspora - but there are still many Muslims (and Christians, Druze, etc) in those countries who are not. Yet, Muslims in Indonesia - the country with the largest population of Muslims, rarely have honor killings and Hindus and Sikhs in areas India do. The point is - religion has little to do with it.



Ok, you're moving the goalposts by admitting it is against the law.

I agree - it is way overlooked, excused and the penalties horribly low, but that is not just in the Middle East or Muslim countries. Look at India. It's a serious problem but by focusing on it as a Muslim problem, you are ignoring the reality and "excusing" it in non-Muslim countries.

SMALL EXAMPLE OF WHAT IS STARTING TO HAPPEN IN THIS COUNTRY!

Oh bullshit. That's just fear mongering. Honor killings are very rare in this country and what's more the Muslim community in the US is vocally unified in opposition to that crime. Your article was from 2009 - not even very current.

You're right. " Honor Killings" are very rare in this Country but until recently we haven't had them at all. Which Group? Hint.... It's not the Hindus. My post was just one example.

I am not " moving the Goalposts" by admitting it's against the law lol. In " palestine" they declared they have no intention of making it illegal. ( Just one example)

" Honor Killing" is a part of Islam just like some practices in the Catholic Church that are not written anywhere in some historical text. (Ex. Not eating meat on Friday)

Last year there was a murder in one of the Arab villages, and eventually it was found out that the murder was an honor killing. However, the article stated that the Israeli authorities prefer to stay out of these disputed because it has to do with their culture.

 

[Hossfly]

Let me simplify, hypocrite.

Your previous claims (which are getting kind of confusing) are that honor killing is part of Islam, and a quote was given from the Quran to supposedly support it (striking a woman).

My point is you can find similar quotes in the OT that even better support it. My claim is it's the culture and it's been practiced in the ME by people of all religions within those cultures, as well as in other countries around the world.

Most Jewish people are far removed from the culture that practices honor killing due to the diaspora - but there are still many Muslims (and Christians, Druze, etc) in those countries who are not. Yet, Muslims in Indonesia - the country with the largest population of Muslims, rarely have honor killings and Hindus and Sikhs in areas India do. The point is - religion has little to do with it.



Ok, you're moving the goalposts by admitting it is against the law.

I agree - it is way overlooked, excused and the penalties horribly low, but that is not just in the Middle East or Muslim countries. Look at India. It's a serious problem but by focusing on it as a Muslim problem, you are ignoring the reality and "excusing" it in non-Muslim countries.



Oh bullshit. That's just fear mongering. Honor killings are very rare in this country and what's more the Muslim community in the US is vocally unified in opposition to that crime. Your article was from 2009 - not even very current.

You're right. " Honor Killings" are very rare in this Country but until recently we haven't had them at all. Which Group? Hint.... It's not the Hindus. My post was just one example.

I am not " moving the Goalposts" by admitting it's against the law lol. In " palestine" they declared they have no intention of making it illegal. ( Just one example)

" Honor Killing" is a part of Islam just like some practices in the Catholic Church that are not written anywhere in some historical text. (Ex. Not eating meat on Friday)

Will you ever stop repeating this lie that honor killings are lawful in Palestine? They are not. WILL you ever stop repeating this lie that honor killings are a part of Islam ? THEY ARE NOT. STOP LYING.

You're supposed to be a lawyer, Sherri.Then surely you get these updates from "The Jurist". They seem to differ from your "opinion", Perry Mason.


http://jurist.org/dateline/2012/06/abeer-hashayka-honor-killings.php

 

[irosie91]

the subclass of "HONOR KILLING" which involves killing a female relative for
a sexual indiscretion ---or for rejection of the prescribed female role of seclusion
and submission to family control is much more prevalent amongst muslims than
other groups in the world west of southeast asia ------in south east asia and the
far east there are some smaller groups with somewhat restrictive rules
upon women. Female circumcision is overwhelmingly a muslim issue too.

as far as I know the COUNT of MONTE CRISTO -- is no longer sticking
swords into people for his "honor" and they finished shooting it out
at the OK CORRAL. Your objections to these facts is idiotic sherri--- in the
USA I have never encountered a circumcised non muslim woman---not one.
----In fact I have never encountered a completely illiterate young healthy woman
of normal intellect----other than muslim pakistanis-----but that is just my
experience -----maybe you got some in your home town

regarding the issue of circumcision---check W.H.O. and the medical literature.

oh I almost forgot-----good news----as far as I know-- female -circumcision is not
all that much practiced in iran In egypt it is so prevalent that even a small number
of coptic christians get into it.----but it has been outlawed----(not that outlawing
it----ended it)

 

[Hossfly]

You're right. " Honor Killings" are very rare in this Country but until recently we haven't had them at all. Which Group? Hint.... It's not the Hindus. My post was just one example.

I am not " moving the Goalposts" by admitting it's against the law lol. In " palestine" they declared they have no intention of making it illegal. ( Just one example)

" Honor Killing" is a part of Islam just like some practices in the Catholic Church that are not written anywhere in some historical text. (Ex. Not eating meat on Friday)

Will you ever stop repeating this lie that honor killings are lawful in Palestine? They are not. WILL you ever stop repeating this lie that honor killings are a part of Islam ? THEY ARE NOT. STOP LYING.

You're supposed to be a lawyer, Sherri.Then surely you get these updates from "The Jurist". They seem to differ from your "opinion", Perry Mason.


JURIST - Dateline

What say you Sherri?

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Let me simplify, hypocrite.

Your previous claims (which are getting kind of confusing) are that honor killing is part of Islam, and a quote was given from the Quran to supposedly support it (striking a woman).

My point is you can find similar quotes in the OT that even better support it. My claim is it's the culture and it's been practiced in the ME by people of all religions within those cultures, as well as in other countries around the world.

Most Jewish people are far removed from the culture that practices honor killing due to the diaspora - but there are still many Muslims (and Christians, Druze, etc) in those countries who are not. Yet, Muslims in Indonesia - the country with the largest population of Muslims, rarely have honor killings and Hindus and Sikhs in areas India do. The point is - religion has little to do with it.



Ok, you're moving the goalposts by admitting it is against the law.

I agree - it is way overlooked, excused and the penalties horribly low, but that is not just in the Middle East or Muslim countries. Look at India. It's a serious problem but by focusing on it as a Muslim problem, you are ignoring the reality and "excusing" it in non-Muslim countries.



Oh bullshit. That's just fear mongering. Honor killings are very rare in this country and what's more the Muslim community in the US is vocally unified in opposition to that crime. Your article was from 2009 - not even very current.

You're right. " Honor Killings" are very rare in this Country but until recently we haven't had them at all. Which Group? Hint.... It's not the Hindus. My post was just one example.

I am not " moving the Goalposts" by admitting it's against the law lol. In " palestine" they declared they have no intention of making it illegal. ( Just one example)

" Honor Killing" is a part of Islam just like some practices in the Catholic Church that are not written anywhere in some historical text. (Ex. Not eating meat on Friday)

Last year there was a murder in one of the Arab villages, and eventually it was found out that the murder was an honor killing. However, the article stated that the Israeli authorities prefer to stay out of these disputed because it has to do with their culture.

WHAT article ? What incident?

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Will you ever stop repeating this lie that honor killings are lawful in Palestine? They are not. WILL you ever stop repeating this lie that honor killings are a part of Islam ? THEY ARE NOT. STOP LYING.

You're supposed to be a lawyer, Sherri.Then surely you get these updates from "The Jurist". They seem to differ from your "opinion", Perry Mason.


JURIST - Dateline

What say you Sherri?

THEY support what I have been saying, honor killings are not unlawful.
THE article does not say honor killings are lawful. A few other points are made, the laws that apply in Palestinian Territories are Jordanian laws, carried over from the time when Jordan occupied the lands. All the so called Palestinian legislation is draft laws, which do not make honor killings lawful either.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Will you ever stop repeating this lie that honor killings are lawful in Palestine? They are not. WILL you ever stop repeating this lie that honor killings are a part of Islam ? THEY ARE NOT. STOP LYING.

You're supposed to be a lawyer, Sherri.Then surely you get these updates from "The Jurist". They seem to differ from your "opinion", Perry Mason.


JURIST - Dateline

What say you Sherri?

the subclass of "HONOR KILLING" which involves killing a female relative for
a sexual indiscretion ---or for rejection of the prescribed female role of seclusion
and submission to family control is much more prevalent amongst muslims than
other groups in the world west of southeast asia ------in south east asia and the
far east there are some smaller groups with somewhat restrictive rules
upon women. Female circumcision is overwhelmingly a muslim issue too.

as far as I know the COUNT of MONTE CRISTO -- is no longer sticking
swords into people for his "honor" and they finished shooting it out
at the OK CORRAL. Your objections to these facts is idiotic sherri--- in the
USA I have never encountered a circumcised non muslim woman---not one.
----In fact I have never encountered a completely illiterate young healthy woman
of normal intellect----other than muslim pakistanis-----but that is just my
experience -----maybe you got some in your home town

regarding the issue of circumcision---check W.H.O. and the medical literature.

oh I almost forgot-----good news----as far as I know-- female -circumcision is not
all that much practiced in iran In egypt it is so prevalent that even a small number
of coptic christians get into it.----but it has been outlawed----(not that outlawing
it----ended it)

ALL of this is not documented to be true. WHERE is your evidence?

 

[proudveteran06]

Let me simplify, hypocrite.

Your previous claims (which are getting kind of confusing) are that honor killing is part of Islam, and a quote was given from the Quran to supposedly support it (striking a woman).

My point is you can find similar quotes in the OT that even better support it. My claim is it's the culture and it's been practiced in the ME by people of all religions within those cultures, as well as in other countries around the world.

Most Jewish people are far removed from the culture that practices honor killing due to the diaspora - but there are still many Muslims (and Christians, Druze, etc) in those countries who are not. Yet, Muslims in Indonesia - the country with the largest population of Muslims, rarely have honor killings and Hindus and Sikhs in areas India do. The point is - religion has little to do with it.



Ok, you're moving the goalposts by admitting it is against the law.

I agree - it is way overlooked, excused and the penalties horribly low, but that is not just in the Middle East or Muslim countries. Look at India. It's a serious problem but by focusing on it as a Muslim problem, you are ignoring the reality and "excusing" it in non-Muslim countries.



Oh bullshit. That's just fear mongering. Honor killings are very rare in this country and what's more the Muslim community in the US is vocally unified in opposition to that crime. Your article was from 2009 - not even very current.

You're right. " Honor Killings" are very rare in this Country but until recently we haven't had them at all. Which Group? Hint.... It's not the Hindus. My post was just one example.

I am not " moving the Goalposts" by admitting it's against the law lol. In " palestine" they declared they have no intention of making it illegal. ( Just one example)

" Honor Killing" is a part of Islam just like some practices in the Catholic Church that are not written anywhere in some historical text. (Ex. Not eating meat on Friday)

Will you ever stop repeating this lie that honor killings are lawful in Palestine? They are not. WILL you ever stop repeating this lie that honor killings are a part of Islam ? THEY ARE NOT. STOP LYING.

Honor Killings" are accepted in Islam and are happening in those Countries including Gaza!!! They are NOT prosecuted so they are LAWFUL !!!!! STOP LYING!!!!!!