Toddler finds mother shot dead in Umm al-Fahm

[SherriMunnerlyn]

"Even within the Middle East, honour killing is not restricted to Muslims. In Yemen, a*Jewish*father killed his daughter after a rebuke from the rabbi for her extra-marital pregnancy, and in Palestine, in 2005, Faten Habash was beaten to death with an iron bar, wielded by her*Christian*father because she wanted to marry her Muslim boyfriend.While there is no Quranic justification for honour killing, it is unfortunately true that many of the perpetrators believe themselves justified by their faith. All religions are influenced by the patriarchal culture under which they were created and so codify some of the oppressive practises of their time. All religions are interpreted by reactionary elements who wish to defend and retain patriarchal dominance. It is in the name of Christianity that reactionary elements in some American states and European countries restrict abortion rights; it was in the name of Islam that reactionary elements in Jordan and Pakistan blocked legal amendments which would have closed loopholes that allow honour killers to escape with token punishment. As Nilofar Bakhtiar, adviser to Pakistan's prime minister on Women's' Development says, men find it "very convenient to say that what they don't want to do is against Islam and what they want to do is in the name of Islam." http://www.islamawareness.net/HonourKilling/outside.html

 

[Hossfly]

What does Indonesia have to do with the fact this mainly occurs among Muslims? Why single out one Country? " Kosher Food Laws" are still Man's law just like rules Catholics follow; No Divorce, Against Abortion, Birth Control, etc. etc. That was my point

I truly don't get what you are saying here.

You keep insisting that honor killing is an Islamic thing (as opposed to something endemic in cultures in certain parts of the world). So I point out the largest Islamic country (in terms of population) - a country with very few honor killings and ask how you reconcile your claim with that? Clearly it isn't a part of the religion when it is rare in the most populous Muslim country. Add to that you can find nothing in the religion that actively supports it - unlike Kosher laws who have their origins in the OT (which I linked to).



I'm not being hypocritical. I am simply pointing out (and supporting) basic facts that you are unable to dispute:
- honor killings occur through out the world, most commonly in Middle East and Asia
- they occur in all religions of those parts of the world
- none of those religions actively endorse honor killings



And that is exactly the problem. Not the religion - it has little to do with what the religion says - but the culture of people in those parts of the world because it's not just Egyptian Muslims but Egyptian Christians. And, I absolutely agree with you that prosecution of those crimes is shameful as is the general attitude towards women. You will find that same attitude in non-Muslim dominant countries like India. Yet you continue to ignore that in pursuit of a Muslim-only blame.



Who cares if he's Muslim? He's EGYPTIAN.

And never mind that honor killings are rare in the Muslim controlled country of Indonesia.

There was another case in NYS where a MUSLIM beheaded his WIFE!
I refuse to call a " Honor Killing" an " Honor Killing?" lol Makes as much sense as the rest of your posts

Ya...you only call it "honor killing" when it's a Muslim. A Christian doing the same thing or a Hindu doing the same is not an "honor killing". That logic don't fly.

beating women senseless for spending to much on groceries or for not having the frig properly stocked for sunday football games are not honour killings, even if death ensues.

let's get our priorities straight. it is OK to kill women for somethings, and especially when we can point our clean and righteous finger at someone else.

now watch...some zionist, muslim hating, clown will say i am advocating killing women.

Seal doesn't seem to be able to absorb the fact that civilized people don't like to see any violence against women whatever their religion is. I have a great idea for Seal. If he is ever in the Los Angeles area, he can visit that young Afghani woman whose husband cut off her nose and her ear and she is now awaiting plastic surgery to fix her up. Take her out to lunch and symphasize with her as to the ordeal she has gone through.

 

[Hossfly]

Anyways, back to the topic of honor killings. I believe in the Koran it says a man can beat his wife. This is a prelude to honor killings. I might have been wrong about honor killings only being about rape. That's what the news report said. But, like I said before, denying that Muslim societies have problems with terror and honor killings, because of being politically correct, will only continue the problems and not solve them.

WHERE IN THE Koran DOES IT SAY THAT? We have already established The Torah sanctions honor killings.

I don't think Frau Sherri took ancient history in high school where she would have found out that people were very violent in the olden times and even had child sacrifices. Meanwhile, we are talking about today, Frau Sherri. It seems that your friends are the champions when it comes to honor killings. I do hope that if you find out that one has been committed in your general area that you report this to the authorities.

 

[Hossfly]

"Even within the Middle East, honour killing is not restricted to Muslims. In Yemen, a*Jewish*father killed his daughter after a rebuke from the rabbi for her extra-marital pregnancy, and in Palestine, in 2005, Faten Habash was beaten to death with an iron bar, wielded by her*Christian*father because she wanted to marry her Muslim boyfriend.While there is no Quranic justification for honour killing, it is unfortunately true that many of the perpetrators believe themselves justified by their faith. All religions are influenced by the patriarchal culture under which they were created and so codify some of the oppressive practises of their time. All religions are interpreted by reactionary elements who wish to defend and retain patriarchal dominance. It is in the name of Christianity that reactionary elements in some American states and European countries restrict abortion rights; it was in the name of Islam that reactionary elements in Jordan and Pakistan blocked legal amendments which would have closed loopholes that allow honour killers to escape with token punishment. As Nilofar Bakhtiar, adviser to Pakistan's prime minister on Women's' Development says, men find it "very convenient to say that what they don't want to do is against Islam and what they want to do is in the name of Islam." Honour killing outside the world of Islam

I am sure Frau Sherri can give us all the statistics of the honor killings in every Muslim country there is, even it includes members of the minorities living there. The statistics will no doubt show that there are many, many honor killings among Muslims. By the way, I think many of us have seen the video of a Mullah or Imam telling the men how to beat their wives. I wonder how many Muslim men follow this advice and beat their wives up here in America the same way the clergyman in the video tells them to.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Anyways, back to the topic of honor killings. I believe in the Koran it says a man can beat his wife. This is a prelude to honor killings. I might have been wrong about honor killings only being about rape. That's what the news report said. But, like I said before, denying that Muslim's societies have problems with terror and honor killings, because of being politically correct, will only continue the problems and not solve them.

WHERE IN THE Koran DOES IT SAY THAT? We have already established The Torah sanctions honor killings.

I don't think Frau Sherri took ancient history in high school where she would have found out that people were very violent in the olden times and even had child sacrifices. Meanwhile, we are talking about today, Frau Sherri. It seems that your friends are the champions when it comes to honor killings. I do hope that if you find out that one has been committed in your general area that you report this to the authorities.

It seems you are only capable of making baseless claims that always demonize Muslims.

 

[toastman]

WHERE IN THE Koran DOES IT SAY THAT? We have already established The Torah sanctions honor killings.

I don't think Frau Sherri took ancient history in high school where she would have found out that people were very violent in the olden times and even had child sacrifices. Meanwhile, we are talking about today, Frau Sherri. It seems that your friends are the champions when it comes to honor killings. I do hope that if you find out that one has been committed in your general area that you report this to the authorities.

It seems you are only capable of making baseless claims that always demonize Muslims.

It seems like 99.9% of your posts are to demonize Israel

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

"Even within the Middle East, honour killing is not restricted to Muslims. In Yemen, a*Jewish*father killed his daughter after a rebuke from the rabbi for her extra-marital pregnancy, and in Palestine, in 2005, Faten Habash was beaten to death with an iron bar, wielded by her*Christian*father because she wanted to marry her Muslim boyfriend.While there is no Quranic justification for honour killing, it is unfortunately true that many of the perpetrators believe themselves justified by their faith. All religions are influenced by the patriarchal culture under which they were created and so codify some of the oppressive practises of their time. All religions are interpreted by reactionary elements who wish to defend and retain patriarchal dominance. It is in the name of Christianity that reactionary elements in some American states and European countries restrict abortion rights; it was in the name of Islam that reactionary elements in Jordan and Pakistan blocked legal amendments which would have closed loopholes that allow honour killers to escape with token punishment. As Nilofar Bakhtiar, adviser to Pakistan's prime minister on Women's' Development says, men find it "very convenient to say that what they don't want to do is against Islam and what they want to do is in the name of Islam." Honour killing outside the world of Islam

I am sure Frau Sherri can give us all the statistics of the honor killings in every Muslim country there is, even it includes members of the minorities living there. The statistics will no doubt show that there are many, many honor killings among Muslims. By the way, I think many of us have seen the video of a Mullah or Imam telling the men how to beat their wives. I wonder how many Muslim men follow this advice and beat their wives up here in America the same way the clergyman in the video tells them to.

How did we arrive at the subject of Muslim men beating their wives? What I know is men beating their wives is not something only Muslims do. AND most people do not watch those Muslim hating propaganda videos you so love, they do not watch them and they know they are filled with nothing but propaganda and lies.

 

[Lipush]

Anyways, back to the topic of honor killings. I believe in the Koran it says a man can beat his wife. This is a prelude to honor killings. I might have been wrong about honor killings only being about rape. That's what the news report said. But, like I said before, denying that Muslim societies have problems with terror and honor killings, because of being politically correct, will only continue the problems and not solve them.

WHERE IN THE Koran DOES IT SAY THAT? We have already established The Torah sanctions honor killings.

Surat Al-Nisa' (Surah number 4): "...So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them."

 

[Lipush]

Most do not cheer the deaths of others anymore than most Jews cheer the deaths of Palestinian civilians.

What??

When, why, and how.

well, i distinctly remember the absolute glee of the zionists during thre lebanon war and which was almost equalled in cast lead.

you people ecuse or condone every singringle palestinian deaths. i have even heard the acts baruch goldstein mitigated by people on this board (and he is regarded still as a hero by many jews, israelis and, especially, settlers)

"you people ecuse or condone every single palestinian deaths."

NOT TRUE AT ALL!

" i have even heard the acts baruch goldstein mitigated by people on this board"

So please bring over a link, or quote a post, if you do not mind! I don't recall any Zionist poster here accepting Goldstein's actions or seeing him as a hero!

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Most do not cheer the deaths of others anymore than most Jews cheer the deaths of Palestinian civilians.

What??

When, why, and how.

well, i distinctly remember the absolute glee of the zionists during thre lebanon war and which was almost equalled in cast lead.

you people ecuse or condone every singringle palestinian deaths. i have even heard the acts baruch goldstein mitigated by people on this board (and he is regarded still as a hero by many jews, israelis and, especially, settlers)

"you people ecuse or condone every single palestinian deaths."

NOT TRUE AT ALL!

" i have even heard the acts baruch goldstein mitigated by people on this board"

So please bring over a link, or quote a post, if you do not mind! I don't recall any Zionist poster here accepting Goldstein's actions or seeing him as a hero!

Just go to the thresd about the 82 year old woman in Hebron, I was reading a post from irosie about what a kind hesrted man Goldstein was.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Anyways, back to the topic of honor killings. I believe in the Koran it says a man can beat his wife. This is a prelude to honor killings. I might have been wrong about honor killings only being about rape. That's what the news report said. But, like I said before, denying that Muslim societies have problems with terror and honor killings, because of being politically correct, will only continue the problems and not solve them.

WHERE IN THE Koran DOES IT SAY THAT? We have already established The Torah sanctions honor killings.

Surat Al-Nisa' (Surah number 4): "...So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them."

Since when does strike mean kill?

 

[Lipush]

"I believe in the Koran it says a man can beat his wife. This is a prelude to honor killings."

He said that the Quran permits beating, and that it's the prelude to honor killing. the question was about if it permits beating.

the answer was given

 

[Lipush]

well, i distinctly remember the absolute glee of the zionists during thre lebanon war and which was almost equalled in cast lead.

you people ecuse or condone every singringle palestinian deaths. i have even heard the acts baruch goldstein mitigated by people on this board (and he is regarded still as a hero by many jews, israelis and, especially, settlers)

"you people ecuse or condone every single palestinian deaths."

NOT TRUE AT ALL!

" i have even heard the acts baruch goldstein mitigated by people on this board"

So please bring over a link, or quote a post, if you do not mind! I don't recall any Zionist poster here accepting Goldstein's actions or seeing him as a hero!

Just go to the thresd about the 82 year old woman in Hebron, I was reading a post from irosie about what a kind hesrted man Goldstein was.

She didn't say anything about Goldstein besides the fact that his colleagues mourned his death

 

[sealadaigh]

I am sure Frau Sherri can give us all the statistics of the honor killings in every Muslim country there is, even it includes members of the minorities living there. The statistics will no doubt show that there are many, many honor killings among Muslims. By the way, I think many of us have seen the video of a Mullah or Imam telling the men how to beat their wives. I wonder how many Muslim men follow this advice and beat their wives up here in America the same way the clergyman in the video tells them to.

How did we arrive at the subject of Muslim men beating their wives? What I know is men beating their wives is not something only Muslims do. AND most people do not watch those Muslim hating propaganda videos you so love, they do not watch them and they know they are filled with nothing but propaganda and lies.

I take it you haven't been receiving your proper beatings lately. Wassup? You wearing the pants now?

what an incredibly cruel and sexist thing to say. you not only owe sherri an apology, and women in general an apology, but men as well.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

"you people ecuse or condone every single palestinian deaths."

NOT TRUE AT ALL!

" i have even heard the acts baruch goldstein mitigated by people on this board"

So please bring over a link, or quote a post, if you do not mind! I don't recall any Zionist poster here accepting Goldstein's actions or seeing him as a hero!

Just go to the thresd about the 82 year old woman in Hebron, I was reading a post from irosie about what a kind hesrted man Goldstein was.

She didn't say anything about Goldstein besides the fact that his colleagues mourned his death

Thats not all she has said.

 

[Lipush]

I believe so. If I'm wrong, then please quote the post itself, I may have missed it, if so, than my bad it'll be.

 

[sealadaigh]

Just go to the thresd about the 82 year old woman in Hebron, I was reading a post from irosie about what a kind hesrted man Goldstein was.

She didn't say anything about Goldstein besides the fact that his colleagues mourned his death

Thats not all she has said.

oh c'mon. it's not that bad, this beloved colleague. it's not as if the knesset had to pass laws against people worshipping him or that his tomb had to be bulldozed to deter hero worshipping pilgrims...

it is not like people celebrate him in songs with lyrics like...

"Dr. Goldstein, there is none other like you in the world. Dr. Goldstein, we all love you… he aimed at terrorists' heads, squeezed the trigger hard, and shot bullets, and shot, and shot."

Sheikh Jarrah Jews praise Baruch Goldstein on Purim - Israel News, Ynetnews

oh, and for the sake of historical accuracy...

"and shot and shot and shot and shot and shot and shot and shot and shot and shot
and shot and shot and shot and shot and shot and shot and shot and shot and shot
and shot and shot and shot and shot and shot and shot and shot and shot."

who knows. maybe he was kind hearted and just putting the as many of the palestinians on the west bank as he could with his limited supply of ammo out of the misery he knew they would be suffering at the hands of his beloved colleagues today.

 

[Lipush]

Most Israelis feel disgusted by his actions. That's the one truth that matters.

 

[Lipush]

"I believe in the Koran it says a man can beat his wife. This is a prelude to honor killings."

He said that the Quran permits beating, and that it's the prelude to honor killing. the question was about if it permits beating.

the answer was given

It does not permit killing.

As I said before, the issue was beating, not killing.

I simply quoted from the Quran.

 

[Coyote]

Anyways, back to the topic of honor killings. I believe in the Koran it says a man can beat his wife. This is a prelude to honor killings. I might have been wrong about honor killings only being about rape. That's what the news report said. But, like I said before, denying that Muslim societies have problems with terror and honor killings, because of being politically correct, will only continue the problems and not solve them.

Only in a very twisted sense can it be used to justify killing. Those who use that to claim that Islam endorses honor killing ignore a similar passage in the bible that is even more explicit:

Lev 21:9 And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire.

Of course it all comes from the same Middle Eastern culture and God.

It has nothing to do with being "politically correct" - only with being honest. The real issue is that these societies and cultures have problems with women and violence towards women is socially acceptable.

When you make it to be a problem of a religion then you leave out the deeper causes in order to focus on the superficial. The same religions that have passages endorsing violence also have passages endorsing peace, co-existance, love and respect. The problem is how the adherents choose to follow it.

When it comes to violence against women - it is by no means limited to Islamic countries though it is common in them because of the culture. The same sort of culture exists in India and the same problems exist there even though it's not a Muslim country.

People keep trying to put honor killing into a category by itself, but it isn't - it's part of a pervasive attitude that violence towards women is not only acceptable but often deserved. Women have acid thrown in their face for lack of "modesty" or even lack of sufficient dowry. Women are "honor killed" for the same reasons. Women are raped because they are of a lower caste and the rapists higher. They get away with it because they have power. All of this is essentially the same as honor killing yet disregarded in the constant attempt to define honor killing as a distinct entity.

I keep bringing up India because India represents a nation that is non-majority Muslim yet is grappling with a significant problem of a deeply ingrained male dominated culture confronting a modern world where women are not chattel - an attitude especially prevalent in the rural villages and provences. The now infamous rape of a young student inflamed the nation and people are wanting change - whether it will happen is not clear, there are significant cultural obstacles to overcome, but it's a start. There are people in the Middle Eastern countries that are voicing similar opinions concerning women, rape, and honor killings and there too, there are going to be significant obstacles not the least of which is a religious view and a culture that is still male dominated.

I also keep bringing up Indonesia because it IS a muslim majority country where the largest population of Muslims live - and honor killings are rare. You can't simply blame the religion for honor killings and ignore Indonesia's statistics.

It's a more complicated and more pervasive problem then religion.