Tolerance? Not for Christians...

[Coyote]

And your proof of this ludicrous conspiracy theory is...?

Has it happened to most other Christians or is it just her?

Straw man.

You don't even know what a straw man is.

I asked you for proof and then I asked you if it happened to other Christians. I mean if they were really discriminating against Christians, like you said then surely they'd be discriminating against all Christians instead of 1 right?

God...this would be pathetic if it weren't so funny. She's like a parrot. Try cranio-rectal-inversion on her next

 

[Coyote]

a) Homosexual life style is shown to be life shortening, so NO, don't give me that it is healthy. That is a LIE.

b) Gay's and Lesbians are not productive. They cannot have children. If you think they can, you need help.

Irrelevent. Many unions are not productive and, you go strictly by a biological view, in a social species, unproductive members are useful for survival of the group as whole. Individual reproduction isn't the only genetic survival strategy.

As to health, there are a lot of unsafe practices that shorten life expectency including driving a car.

 

[Coyote]

It's not up to you or anyone else to SPECULATE on what she may or may not do in the future, and persecute her by witholding her degree because of something she MAY or MAY NOT do. Why is that concept so hard to grasp? Our entire judicial system is based on it for God's sake.

I'm pretty sure she wasn't expelled by some random message board poster. Coyote is NOT withholding her degree!


The professors at the school whose job it is to educate the students toward that counseling degree are the ones who know exactly what happened and in what context it happened and THEY are the ones who expelled her from the program because she failed to demonstrate the maturity and discretion to handle real life situations she would potentially encounter once she obtained a counseling degree from their school.

She simply failed to meet their professional standards.

Or they discriminated against her.

There are two choices here. And so far it looks like discrimination.

From your viewpoint, everything looks like discrimmination if it involves a Christian

And you forgot...she knows what happened as well.

Ya....but will she admit it?

 

[Newby]

NO.

The heart of the issue is not what she may or may not do in her professional life once she attains a degree.

The heart of the issue is the process towards getting the degree which requires that:
- she show she is able to meet stated professional standards required for counseling a diverse group of people, including gays and lesbians.
- as a student she must show she can do this - and the word "affirmation" is a key one - even though as a professional she may opt out of it and refer said client to another therapist.

She has paid for it.

She has not yet earned it - you don't get advanced degrees simply on demand or as a "right" or by passing coursework like an UG degree.

It's not up to you or anyone else to SPECULATE on what she may or may not do in the future, and persecute her by witholding her degree because of something she MAY or MAY NOT do. Why is that concept so hard to grasp? Our entire judicial system is based on it for God's sake.

I'm pretty sure she wasn't expelled by some random message board poster. Coyote is NOT withholding her degree!


The professors at the school whose job it is to educate the students toward that counseling degree are the ones who know exactly what happened and in what context it happened and THEY are the ones who expelled her from the program because she failed to demonstrate the maturity and discretion to handle real life situations she would potentially encounter once she obtained a counseling degree from their school.

She simply failed to meet their professional standards.

Coyote supports it however. And your second paragraph has yet to be proven, it's speculation. I hope they refunded her the entire amount that she's paid to them towards her master's degree. If not, I hope she continues to sue their asses until she gets it back.

 

[Newby]

Again, no. It has zip to do with potential future actions. She must be able to show she can meet certain requirements, including professional standards while IN the degree program in order to earn the degree otherwise the degree is meaningless at best and dangerous to a potential client, at worst. A degree is not an entitlement.

And how was that evaluated? How was it shown that she could not meet 'certain requirements'? What requirements didn't she meet? Please be specific.

No, it's more likely that the other Christians are able to adhere to the standards of their chosen profession rather than trying to change those standards which is what you are advocating, and why? Simply because you want to be able to treat one distinct group of people as if they are subhuman?

She's never said that she couldn't adhere to the standards of her chosen profession, she's never demonstrated that she couldn't adhere to the standards of her chosen profession. If she has, please provide the evidence that supports the comment that you made.

I'm not advocating that any standard get changed. I'm simply stating that she hasn't violated any standard. How has she violated any standard. Please provide the 'standard' and her 'violation' of it that you are basing your entire premise on. Please use concrete facts, and not heresay.

 

[Newby]

So you have evidence she's unqualified? Because the claim being made is that it's her faith that makes her unqualified.

And that is discrimination.

They don't have any evidence that she's unqualified, and that's been my entire point. Heresay is not evidence. Potential future actions that may or may not happen is not evidence to deny someone of a degree. They want to persecute without any evidence whatsoever.

 

[Sky Dancer]

It's not a strawman at all, it's the very heart of the issue. You keep acusing her of something she has not done and you are using that as a basis to keep from her something she has earned and paid for. How you can advocate that with a clear conscience is what I can't grasp.

NO.

The heart of the issue is not what she may or may not do in her professional life once she attains a degree.

The heart of the issue is the process towards getting the degree which requires that:
- she show she is able to meet stated professional standards required for counseling a diverse group of people, including gays and lesbians.
- as a student she must show she can do this - and the word "affirmation" is a key one - even though as a professional she may opt out of it and refer said client to another therapist.

She has paid for it.

She has not yet earned it - you don't get advanced degrees simply on demand or as a "right" or by passing coursework like an UG degree.

It's not up to you or anyone else to SPECULATE on what she may or may not do in the future, and persecute her by witholding her degree because of something she MAY or MAY NOT do. Why is that concept so hard to grasp? Our entire judicial system is based on it for God's sake.

She has already said and done enouigh things to put her degree in jeopardy. Thank God she isn't practicing in the counseling field yet. She's a loose cannon.

 

[Sky Dancer]

So you have evidence she's unqualified? Because the claim being made is that it's her faith that makes her unqualified.

And that is discrimination.

They don't have any evidence that she's unqualified, and that's been my entire point. Heresay is not evidence. Potential future actions that may or may not happen is not evidence to deny someone of a degree. They want to persecute without any evidence whatsoever.

I'm sure there is plenty of evidence. We won't hear about it untill it goes to court. Frankly, I'm interested to see what happens with this lawsuit. Alliance Defense Fund lost the Michigan case that was similar to this one. I can live with the outcome one way or another.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Again, no. It has zip to do with potential future actions. She must be able to show she can meet certain requirements, including professional standards while IN the degree program in order to earn the degree otherwise the degree is meaningless at best and dangerous to a potential client, at worst. A degree is not an entitlement.

And how was that evaluated? How was it shown that she could not meet 'certain requirements'? What requirements didn't she meet? Please be specific.

No, it's more likely that the other Christians are able to adhere to the standards of their chosen profession rather than trying to change those standards which is what you are advocating, and why? Simply because you want to be able to treat one distinct group of people as if they are subhuman?

She's never said that she couldn't adhere to the standards of her chosen profession, she's never demonstrated that she couldn't adhere to the standards of her chosen profession. If she has, please provide the evidence that supports the comment that you made.

I'm not advocating that any standard get changed. I'm simply stating that she hasn't violated any standard. How has she violated any standard. Please provide the 'standard' and her 'violation' of it that you are basing your entire premise on. Please use concrete facts, and not heresay.

I've already posted the ACA and APA requirements that Keeton has violated next to her actual words.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Yeah, the facists are hard at work to take her down and make sure she doesn't get what she paid for and worked for. Congrats! You people are pathetic.

No. The fascists aren't doing a damn thing.

Tell me, how do you feel about voodoo in the medical field? That question, along with faith healing, remain hanging.

So when did she force her clients to listen to her views on faith?

Oh, that's right. Never.

She has forced students and professors in and out of class to listen to her views on faith. She has stated that Christian morals are for ALL people. She has stated she cannot affirm homosexuality even though the ACA and APA guidelines require her to. How can she counsel gay people? She must be a real nutcase about it or she wouldn't have drawn this kind of problem to herself.

 

[Newby]

No. The fascists aren't doing a damn thing.

Tell me, how do you feel about voodoo in the medical field? That question, along with faith healing, remain hanging.

So when did she force her clients to listen to her views on faith?

Oh, that's right. Never.

She has forced students and professors in and out of class to listen to her views on faith. She has stated that Christian morals are for ALL people. She has stated she cannot affirm homosexuality even though the ACA and APA guidelines require her to. How can she counsel gay people? She must be a real nutcase about it or she wouldn't have drawn this kind of problem to herself.

She has forced them to listen to her, huh?? I'm sorry, but that's hilarious. Where in the hell did you come up with that? You are not capable of looking at this situation from a logical point of view, that much is obvious. So, there's no point in further wasting my time.

 

[Newby]

Again, no. It has zip to do with potential future actions. She must be able to show she can meet certain requirements, including professional standards while IN the degree program in order to earn the degree otherwise the degree is meaningless at best and dangerous to a potential client, at worst. A degree is not an entitlement.

And how was that evaluated? How was it shown that she could not meet 'certain requirements'? What requirements didn't she meet? Please be specific.

No, it's more likely that the other Christians are able to adhere to the standards of their chosen profession rather than trying to change those standards which is what you are advocating, and why? Simply because you want to be able to treat one distinct group of people as if they are subhuman?

She's never said that she couldn't adhere to the standards of her chosen profession, she's never demonstrated that she couldn't adhere to the standards of her chosen profession. If she has, please provide the evidence that supports the comment that you made.

I'm not advocating that any standard get changed. I'm simply stating that she hasn't violated any standard. How has she violated any standard. Please provide the 'standard' and her 'violation' of it that you are basing your entire premise on. Please use concrete facts, and not heresay.

I've already posted the ACA and APA requirements that Keeton has violated next to her actual words.

Fine, let them deny her the license to practice once she graduates. Now what's the college's excuse for not giving her something she's paid for.

 

[Sky Dancer]

So when did she force her clients to listen to her views on faith?

Oh, that's right. Never.

She has forced students and professors in and out of class to listen to her views on faith. She has stated that Christian morals are for ALL people. She has stated she cannot affirm homosexuality even though the ACA and APA guidelines require her to. How can she counsel gay people? She must be a real nutcase about it or she wouldn't have drawn this kind of problem to herself.

She has forced them to listen to her, huh?? I'm sorry, but that's hilarious. Where in the hell did you come up with that? You are not capable of looking at this situation from a logical point of view, that much is obvious. So, there's no point in further wasting my time.

Just when I was about to give up my side.

 

[Sky Dancer]

And how was that evaluated? How was it shown that she could not meet 'certain requirements'? What requirements didn't she meet? Please be specific.



She's never said that she couldn't adhere to the standards of her chosen profession, she's never demonstrated that she couldn't adhere to the standards of her chosen profession. If she has, please provide the evidence that supports the comment that you made.

I'm not advocating that any standard get changed. I'm simply stating that she hasn't violated any standard. How has she violated any standard. Please provide the 'standard' and her 'violation' of it that you are basing your entire premise on. Please use concrete facts, and not heresay.

I've already posted the ACA and APA requirements that Keeton has violated next to her actual words.

Fine, let them deny her the licence to practice once she graduates. Now what's the college's excuse for not giving her something she's paid for.

I say let the college give her a degree but don't license her.

 

[Newby]

So you have evidence she's unqualified? Because the claim being made is that it's her faith that makes her unqualified.

And that is discrimination.

They don't have any evidence that she's unqualified, and that's been my entire point. Heresay is not evidence. Potential future actions that may or may not happen is not evidence to deny someone of a degree. They want to persecute without any evidence whatsoever.

I'm sure there is plenty of evidence. We won't hear about it untill it goes to court. Frankly, I'm interested to see what happens with this lawsuit. Alliance Defense Fund lost the Michigan case that was similar to this one. I can live with the outcome one way or another.

YOU DON'T KNOW THAT! YOU ARE SPECULATING, AND YOU'RE ON A WITCH HUNT! Not only that, you've called her a loon and questioned her sanity. How does that make you any different than her? IT DOESN'T!

 

[Sky Dancer]

They don't have any evidence that she's unqualified, and that's been my entire point. Heresay is not evidence. Potential future actions that may or may not happen is not evidence to deny someone of a degree. They want to persecute without any evidence whatsoever.

I'm sure there is plenty of evidence. We won't hear about it untill it goes to court. Frankly, I'm interested to see what happens with this lawsuit. Alliance Defense Fund lost the Michigan case that was similar to this one. I can live with the outcome one way or another.

YOU DON'T KNOW THAT! YOU ARE SPECULATING, AND YOU'RE ON A WITCH HUNT! Not only that, you've called her a loon and questioned her sanity. How does that make you any different than her? IT DOESN'T!

Calm down. If Keeton were mature she would choose her battles more carefully.

I'm sure Keeton is not the only Christian in the counseling program, she's just the only one goofy enough to make a Federal case out of it.

 

[Newby]

I've already posted the ACA and APA requirements that Keeton has violated next to her actual words.

Fine, let them deny her the licence to practice once she graduates. Now what's the college's excuse for not giving her something she's paid for.

I say let the college give her a degree but don't license her.

Yeah! We finally agree on something!!! It's not up the college to deny her the degree she has earned.

 

[Newby]

She has forced students and professors in and out of class to listen to her views on faith. She has stated that Christian morals are for ALL people. She has stated she cannot affirm homosexuality even though the ACA and APA guidelines require her to. How can she counsel gay people? She must be a real nutcase about it or she wouldn't have drawn this kind of problem to herself.

She has forced them to listen to her, huh?? I'm sorry, but that's hilarious. Where in the hell did you come up with that? You are not capable of looking at this situation from a logical point of view, that much is obvious. So, there's no point in further wasting my time.

Just when I was about to give up my side.

Yeah... right....

 

[Sky Dancer]

Fine, let them deny her the licence to practice once she graduates. Now what's the college's excuse for not giving her something she's paid for.

I say let the college give her a degree but don't license her.

Yeah! We finally agree on something!!! It's not up the college to deny her the degree she has earned.

Unless, they can. It will be up to the courts now.

 

[Newby]

I'm sure there is plenty of evidence. We won't hear about it untill it goes to court. Frankly, I'm interested to see what happens with this lawsuit. Alliance Defense Fund lost the Michigan case that was similar to this one. I can live with the outcome one way or another.

YOU DON'T KNOW THAT! YOU ARE SPECULATING, AND YOU'RE ON A WITCH HUNT! Not only that, you've called her a loon and questioned her sanity. How does that make you any different than her? IT DOESN'T!

Calm down. If Keeton were mature she would choose her battles more carefully.

I'm sure Keeton is not the only Christian in the counseling program, she's just the only one goofy enough to make a Federal case out of it.

I'm perfectly calm, Sky, but I appreciate your concern.