Zone1 Top Myths About Jesus Christ DEBUNKED

[HaShev]

The source is from one of the most trusted historians of the time period. Your sources stating otherwise are from?

The following are the only messianic figures in the time of Lysanias(died 35bc) and King Herod(4bc).
Yehuda (Judas) son of Hezekiah (4 BCE)
Simon of Peraea (4 BCE)
Athronges, the shepherd (4 BCE)
Yehuda (Judas) the Galilean (6 CE)
The only Ad era at that time was
Theudas (died 35ad)by the Jordan
Theudas and Yehuda are mentioned in the book of acts but the NT reverses their deaths claiming Theudas died before Yehuda, that's 1 of thousands of errors and lies in the NT.
Benjamin the Egyptian was a christ figure but I don't recall his era.
Later in 70 ad of course was BARACOPA who had a large following until he failed his liberation-I repeat, failed liveration equates to not fulfilling Moshiach, which is why they removed Thomas and parts of Luke refering to their Jesus (their figure now compiled) not being who they expected or wanted him to be when his followers were being slain instead of liberated.

Sources historical:
Widows mite is a Jannaeus Alexander coin.
There was no Herod Killing Babies event but Yeshu son of Mary in 100bc did flee the Jannaeus revolt towards Egypt with his mentor Rabbi Yohoshua ben Parachya. This is in the Talmud.

This Rabbi is accurately dated as is King Jannaeus who's wife was Salome (friend & follower of Yeshu)who historically recorded reinstated appointed Shimon head priest(=shimon peter becomes head of the church).

Sources for the history of (Yeshu) Jesus: philosopher Celsus (178 CE) Christian writer Epiphanius (c.320-403 CE), the Christian apologist Origen (c.185-254 CE) Within the Talmud Shabbos 104, the gemara explicitly discusses the mother being Stada and the father being Pandera. Jerusalem Talmud (Avodah Zerah II 40d)and in the Tosefta on Hullin II, and (Sanhedrin 43a & 67a). This story is further expanded upon in the Tosefta and Baraitas.
2 accounts:
-Dr. Franz Hartman -
& Gerald Massey's Lectures Originally published in a private edition c. 1900

According to the Babylonian Gemara to the Mishna of Tract "Shabbath," this Jehoshua, the son of Pandira and Stada, was stoned to death as a wizard, in the city of Lud, or Lydda,
Jesus ben Stada (or Pandera) was placedin the time period of about 90 B.C. in Lydda, a town Peter is said tohave visited in ACTS.
Interestingly, the early church father Epiphanius around 400 said Pandera was the grandfather of Jesus.

Sources Yehuda:

The Galilean christ tax revolter Yehuda in the time of Herod was hated by Rome for his revolt but also the people Josephus wrote were bullied by Yehuda and his followers, if they paid the tax the flock would burn down their house or rob them​

(the antifa of their day)
NOTE: Luke mentions him once, in

Acts 5:37, and Josephus several times, once here, sect. 6; and B. XX. ch. 5. sect. 2; Of the War, B. II. ch. 8. sect. 1; and ch. 17. sect. 8, calls this Judas, who was the pestilent author of that seditious doctrine and temper which brought the Jewish nation to utter destruction, a Galilean; but here (sect. 1) Josephus calls him a Gaulonite, of the city of Gamala; it is a great question where this Judas was born, whether in Galilee on the west side, or in Gaulonitis on the east side, of the river Jordan; while, in the place just now cited out of the Antiquities, B. XX. ch. 5. sect. 2, he is not only called a Galilean, but it is added to his story, "as I have signified in the books that go before these," as if he had still called him a Galilean in those Antiquities before, as well as in that particular place, as Dean Aldrich observes, Of the War, B. II. ch. 8. sect. 1.​

 

[HaShev]

It is similar to Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon

He claims an angel showed him golden tablets and how to read them.

If we could actually see the tablets, it would help to verify his story. But they magically disappeared and we have to take his word on it.

Same applies to Christianity

Found the verse about self testimony:
John 5:3I If I bear witness about myself, my witness is false

 

[rightwinger]

Correct. And Tacitus got his facts from records at the time.
For the period from Augustus to Vespasian, Tacitus was able to draw upon earlier histories that contained material from the public records, official reports, and contemporary comment.

Tacitus - Roman Historian, Sources

Tacitus - Roman Historian, Sources: For the period from Augustus to Vespasian, Tacitus was able to draw upon earlier histories that contained material from the public records, official reports, and contemporary comment. It has been noted that the work of Aufidius Bassus and its continuation by...

www.britannica.com

He could not substantiate any of the claims about Jesus in the Bible.

 

[Ace Nova]

The following are the only messianic figures in the time of Lysanias(died 35bc) and King Herod(4bc).
Yehuda (Judas) son of Hezekiah (4 BCE)
Simon of Peraea (4 BCE)
Athronges, the shepherd (4 BCE)
Yehuda (Judas) the Galilean (6 CE)
The only Ad era at that time was
Theudas (died 35ad)by the Jordan
Theudas and Yehuda are mentioned in the book of acts but the NT reverses their deaths claiming Theudas died before Yehuda, that's 1 of thousands of errors and lies in the NT.
Benjamin the Egyptian was a christ figure but I don't recall his era.
Later in 70 ad of course was BARACOPA who had a large following until he failed his liberation-I repeat, failed liveration equates to not fulfilling Moshiach, which is why they removed Thomas and parts of Luke refering to their Jesus (their figure now compiled) not being who they expected or wanted him to be when his followers were being slain instead of liberated.

Sources historical:
Widows mite is a Jannaeus Alexander coin.
There was no Herod Killing Babies event but Yeshu son of Mary in 100bc did flee the Jannaeus revolt towards Egypt with his mentor Rabbi Yohoshua ben Parachya. This is in the Talmud.

This Rabbi is accurately dated as is King Jannaeus who's wife was Salome (friend & follower of Yeshu)who historically recorded reinstated appointed Shimon head priest(=shimon peter becomes head of the church).

Sources for the history of (Yeshu) Jesus: philosopher Celsus (178 CE) Christian writer Epiphanius (c.320-403 CE), the Christian apologist Origen (c.185-254 CE) Within the Talmud Shabbos 104, the gemara explicitly discusses the mother being Stada and the father being Pandera. Jerusalem Talmud (Avodah Zerah II 40d)and in the Tosefta on Hullin II, and (Sanhedrin 43a & 67a). This story is further expanded upon in the Tosefta and Baraitas.
2 accounts:
-Dr. Franz Hartman -
& Gerald Massey's Lectures Originally published in a private edition c. 1900

According to the Babylonian Gemara to the Mishna of Tract "Shabbath," this Jehoshua, the son of Pandira and Stada, was stoned to death as a wizard, in the city of Lud, or Lydda,
Jesus ben Stada (or Pandera) was placedin the time period of about 90 B.C. in Lydda, a town Peter is said tohave visited in ACTS.
Interestingly, the early church father Epiphanius around 400 said Pandera was the grandfather of Jesus.

Sources Yehuda:
The Galilean christ tax revolter Yehuda in the time of Herod was hated by Rome for his revolt but also the people Josephus wrote were bullied by Yehuda and his followers, if they paid the tax the flock would burn down their house or rob them

(the antifa of their day)
NOTE: Luke mentions him once, in

Acts 5:37, and Josephus several times, once here, sect. 6; and B. XX. ch. 5. sect. 2; Of the War, B. II. ch. 8. sect. 1; and ch. 17. sect. 8, calls this Judas, who was the pestilent author of that seditious doctrine and temper which brought the Jewish nation to utter destruction, a Galilean; but here (sect. 1) Josephus calls him a Gaulonite, of the city of Gamala; it is a great question where this Judas was born, whether in Galilee on the west side, or in Gaulonitis on the east side, of the river Jordan; while, in the place just now cited out of the Antiquities, B. XX. ch. 5. sect. 2, he is not only called a Galilean, but it is added to his story, "as I have signified in the books that go before these," as if he had still called him a Galilean in those Antiquities before, as well as in that particular place, as Dean Aldrich observes, Of the War, B. II. ch. 8. sect. 1.​

Pauline epistles[edit]​

Further information: Pauline epistles
The Pauline epistles are dated to between AD 50 and 60 (i.e., approximately twenty to thirty years after the generally accepted time period for the death of Jesus), and are the earliest surviving Christian texts that include information about Jesus.[62]

Although Paul the Apostle provides relatively little biographical information about Jesus[63] and states that he never knew Jesus personally, he does make it clear that he considers Jesus to have been a real person[note 2] and a Jew.[64][65][66][67][note 3] Moreover, he claims to have met with James, the brother of Jesus.[68][note 4]

Historical Jesus - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Of the other mention in Josephus, Josephus scholar Louis H. Feldman has stated that "few have doubted the genuineness" of Josephus' reference to Jesus in Antiquities 20, 9, 1 ("the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James"). Paul references meeting and interacting with James, Jesus' brother, and since this agreement between the different sources supports Josephus' statement, the statement is only disputed by a small number of scholars.[75][76][77][78]

Historical Jesus - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

There is only one classical writer who refers positively to Jesus and that is Mara bar Serapion, a Syriac Stoic, who wrote a letter to his son, who was also named Serapion, from a Roman prison. He speaks of the execution of 'the wise king of the Jews' and compares his death to that of Socrates at the hands of the Athenians. He links the death of the 'wise king' to the Jews being driven from their kingdom. He also states that the 'wise king' lives on because of the "new laws he laid down". The dating of the letter is disputed but was probably soon after 73 AD.[84]

Historical Jesus - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[HaShev]

Pauline epistles[edit]​

Further information: Pauline epistles
The Pauline epistles are dated to between AD 50 and 60 (i.e., approximately twenty to thirty years after the generally accepted time period for the death of Jesus), and are the earliest surviving Christian texts that include information about Jesus.[62]

Although Paul the Apostle provides relatively little biographical information about Jesus[63] and states that he never knew Jesus personally, he does make it clear that he considers Jesus to have been a real person[note 2] and a Jew.[64][65][66][67][note 3] Moreover, he claims to have met with James, the brother of Jesus.[68][note 4]

Historical Jesus - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Of the other mention in Josephus, Josephus scholar Louis H. Feldman has stated that "few have doubted the genuineness" of Josephus' reference to Jesus in Antiquities 20, 9, 1 ("the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James"). Paul references meeting and interacting with James, Jesus' brother, and since this agreement between the different sources supports Josephus' statement, the statement is only disputed by a small number of scholars.[75][76][77][78]

Historical Jesus - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

There is only one classical writer who refers positively to Jesus and that is Mara bar Serapion, a Syriac Stoic, who wrote a letter to his son, who was also named Serapion, from a Roman prison. He speaks of the execution of 'the wise king of the Jews' and compares his death to that of Socrates at the hands of the Athenians. He links the death of the 'wise king' to the Jews being driven from their kingdom. He also states that the 'wise king' lives on because of the "new laws he laid down". The dating of the letter is disputed but was probably soon after 73 AD.[84]

Historical Jesus - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

here's the problem with that;
It does not address the contradictions to historical dating of characters nor address the " trinity " of christs issue.
When you have a converged character it will have more than 1 profession, age it lived to, eras it lived in, death scene story, hometown, description of appearance, and name thus needing a new name for the combined image, this has happened in the Jesus story, even you use the non Jewish name not attributed to any of the Christ figures in history, because it would peg you to a singular figure offering only a portion of the failed liberator story.
That being said:
Paul and James seem to argue that each is worshiping (talking about) another christ than they are, so bringing them up only validates my point.
But worse, Paul is also a converged character thus "given a new name".
Paul is made from accts of
Sergius Paulus called Paul who Saul meets in Acts. Also Apollonius of Tyana called Pol, who was also from Tyre and is where the fleeing out window to Syria comes from.

 

[HaShev]

Pauline epistles[edit]​

Further information: Pauline epistles
The Pauline epistles are dated to between AD 50 and 60 (i.e., approximately twenty to thirty years after the generally accepted time period for the death of Jesus), and are the earliest surviving Christian texts that include information about Jesus.[62]

Although Paul the Apostle provides relatively little biographical information about Jesus[63] and states that he never knew Jesus personally, he does make it clear that he considers Jesus to have been a real person[note 2] and a Jew.[64][65][66][67][note 3] Moreover, he claims to have met with James, the brother of Jesus.[68][note 4]

Historical Jesus - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Of the other mention in Josephus, Josephus scholar Louis H. Feldman has stated that "few have doubted the genuineness" of Josephus' reference to Jesus in Antiquities 20, 9, 1 ("the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James"). Paul references meeting and interacting with James, Jesus' brother, and since this agreement between the different sources supports Josephus' statement, the statement is only disputed by a small number of scholars.[75][76][77][78]

Historical Jesus - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

There is only one classical writer who refers positively to Jesus and that is Mara bar Serapion, a Syriac Stoic, who wrote a letter to his son, who was also named Serapion, from a Roman prison. He speaks of the execution of 'the wise king of the Jews' and compares his death to that of Socrates at the hands of the Athenians. He links the death of the 'wise king' to the Jews being driven from their kingdom. He also states that the 'wise king' lives on because of the "new laws he laid down". The dating of the letter is disputed but was probably soon after 73 AD.[84]

Historical Jesus - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

About Josephus mention of Jesus.
That's been easily debunked as an out of sync forgery. (Early text doesn't have it) later around Eusebius the great liar &forger suddenly has mention out of sequence of events blatantly placed in poorly.
Think carefully: Josephus is a Jew not a Christian, he would not use the term Jesus nor Christ. If such miraculous events took place he would have mentioned them or commentary on them. He does however mention the revolter figure with cult followers- Yehuda.

 

[Ace Nova]

here's the problem with that;
It does not address the contradictions to historical dating of characters nor address the " trinity " of christs issue.
When you have a converged character it will have more than 1 profession, age it lived to, eras it lived in, death scene story, hometown, description of appearance, and name thus needing a new name for the combined image, this has happened in the Jesus story, even you use the non Jewish name not attributed to any of the Christ figures in history, because it would peg you to a singular figure offering only a portion of the failed liberator story.
That being said:
Paul and James seem to argue that each is worshiping (talking about) another christ than they are, so bringing them up only validates my point.
But worse, Paul is also a converged character thus "given a new name".
Paul is made from accts of
Sergius Paulus called Paul who Saul meets in Acts. Also Apollonius of Tyana called Pol, who was also from Tyre and is where the fleeing out window to Syria comes from.

This is simple.

The New Testament exists in ancient scrolls, dating back almost 2000 years. The message within the New Testament is well beyond the wisdom and philosophies of that time period.
I believe it was Jesus Christ, his family and his Apostles. You can believe it was whoever you want.

What you can't do is deny that the New Testament is a true ancient text and the testimonies within it have survived over 2000 years and are a part of billions and billions' of peoples' lives - both past and present.

 

[frigidweirdo]

There is less evidence of rulers of that time than there is of a simple carpenter. This was 2000+ years ago https://www.history.com/news/was-jesus-real-historical-evidence. “The reality is that we don’t have archaeological records for virtually anyone who lived in Jesus’s time and place,”

Is there any evidence of Jesus?

 

[shockedcanadian]

Is there any evidence of Jesus?

At the very least written record.
That is much more than even some of the most famous people of his time and location. As I asked earlier, there is no evidence of General Hannibal and he tried to destroy the Roman Empire. Yet, there is plenty more of Jesus and those who spread the gospel.

 

[frigidweirdo]

At the very least written record.
That is much more than even some of the most famous people of his time and location. As I asked earlier, there is no evidence of General Hannibal and he tried to destroy the Roman Empire. Yet, there is plenty more of Jesus and those who spread the gospel.

But as I've said before, there's a "written record" of Harry Potter.
Is there any evidence about Jesus that would stand up, where it wouldn't stand up for Harry Potter?

 

[shockedcanadian]

But as I've said before, there's a "written record" of Harry Potter.
Is there any evidence about Jesus that would stand up, where it wouldn't stand up for Harry Potter?

There isn't evidence of ANYONE in Israel or Rome in that period, not even Rulers and those well known in history. If not for mummification processes, we wouldn't know much about the Pharoahs either. They simply didn't have the technology or rituals to preserve evidence.

 

[frigidweirdo]

There isn't evidence of ANYONE in Israel or Rome in that period, not even Rulers and those well known in history. If not for mummification processes, we wouldn't know much about the Pharoahs either. They simply didn't have the technology or rituals to preserve evidence.

So, what do we do about these people? Do we make them up, or do we say that they've been lost to History?

 

[shockedcanadian]

So, what do we do about these people? Do we make them up, or do we say that they've been lost to History?

We know what has been passed on through historians and hobby writers, journals etc. It varies by person to person obviously, but, that is how people operated. Villages of people in some cases.

 

[frigidweirdo]

We know what has been passed on through historians and hobby writers, journals etc. It varies by person to person obviously, but, that is how people operated. Villages of people in some cases.

So, in summary, nothing....

In 10,000 years time, would people be able to tell the difference between Harry Potter and Jesus when it comes to being a "real person"?

No.

 

[ding]

So, in summary, nothing....

In 10,000 years time, would people be able to tell the difference between Harry Potter and Jesus when it comes to being a "real person"?

No.

Early Christians wrote about Jesus. So did Jewish and secular historians. So, I'd have to say, yes, they will be able to tell the difference between Harry Potter and Jesus when it comes to being a "real person."

 

[Ace Nova]

He could not substantiate any of the claims about Jesus in the Bible.

Why would a Roman historian substantiate claims about a menace to his society?

If anything, he wouldn't even want to mention anything about it - unless it was a critical part of history.

It's like this:

You're a historian writing about U.S. history. You're writing about all the great things the U.S. accomplished over the years - helping defeat Hitler in WWII, The Cold War ending, Desert Storm, the great presidents over the years.

Now comes 9/11. What are you going to say about 9/11? Are you going to say that Bin Laden and his group attacked the U.S. because they were "freedom warriors"?

Are you going to give a 10 page history lesson about all the things Bin Laden and his associates did to help their cause?

Or are you going to say that the terrorist Bin Laden and his cronies attacked the U.S. - And end it there?

 

[Zebra]

How come all the Jews didn't convert to Christianity? The people who saw these miracles weren't moved. But the idiots in Greece swallowed those stories whole.

Where are the Greek Gods now?

 

[Carl in Michigan]

How come all the Jews didn't convert to Christianity? The people who saw these miracles weren't moved

They were. The 1st Century Church as JEWISH

Gentiles converted later but slowly they brought their pagan practices with them. Now we have a form of paganized Christianity with the s lect few not accepting these traditions

 

[HaShev]

They were. The 1st Century Church as JEWISH

Gentiles converted later but slowly they brought their pagan practices with them. Now we have a form of paganized Christianity with the s lect few not accepting these traditions

Actually at least one of the figures was teaching physical light (luciferous rays of light between sun and earth) as their god which made it easy to converge with the other sun worship mythologies, also 1 or 2 of the figures waa teaching Greek death cultism and Egyptian underworld as their kingdom in desth instead of life.
Truly all these including necromancer maggi tricks were forbidden and not Jewish thus the sect was called Notzrim (offshoot). The sect of Sabians called Mandeans claim surviving followers of John the Baptist and their Physical light teachings match thier Physical light analogies in the NT. Remember the icon named Jesus originally followed John and according to Mandeans, stole Johns Flock after Jesus friend and follower Salome had him handed over & beheaded.

 

[sealybobo]

Where are the Greek Gods now?

Same place they've always been. In your head. You still know who Zeus and Apollo are right?

In fact, go to Greece and see temples built for them.