Top tax rates were at 70% when Microsoft and Apple were founded

[Too Tall]

The high rate encouraged business to reinvest in their company. That's growth.

Yes and when taxes are low no one invests in their company... Ever.

Fact is you're wrong. What happens is they "invest" in their company to avoid losing money to the Government, thus shrinking Government Revenues by causing "mal-investment" in their company.

When a company buys 20 Cargo vans it does not need, simply because "at least it's something" that does not help the economy nor does it help the business.

So in fact all you have done is created a semi prohibition on profit and wealth. People then find ways around that system through buying dumb crap then taking it home, or giving it out as a prize, or letting it rot out in the rain. Companies then start hording money and moving it shores, thanks to people just like you…

Here is the thing, if you were in a successful business you too would be doing these things. You wouldn’t turn around and give a raise to people because that’s too permeate and in no way adds up to an asset.

Now I’m not claiming that lowering taxes at this point in time is the answer to fix the economy. But everyone knows, even Obama that raising taxes would destroy the already shit economy, that’s why he gave so many “tax credits” in his stimulus and as of 4 years in office managed to not increase a single tax on anyone.


It's kinda like the wars, Obama was gonna end em, until he became President.

He did end the one in Iraq, and killed bin Laden.

Bush set the date for ending Iraq and Seal Team Six killed bin Laden.

 

[Cammmpbell]

Yes and when taxes are low no one invests in their company... Ever.

Fact is you're wrong. What happens is they "invest" in their company to avoid losing money to the Government, thus shrinking Government Revenues by causing "mal-investment" in their company.

When a company buys 20 Cargo vans it does not need, simply because "at least it's something" that does not help the economy nor does it help the business.

So in fact all you have done is created a semi prohibition on profit and wealth. People then find ways around that system through buying dumb crap then taking it home, or giving it out as a prize, or letting it rot out in the rain. Companies then start hording money and moving it shores, thanks to people just like you…

Here is the thing, if you were in a successful business you too would be doing these things. You wouldn’t turn around and give a raise to people because that’s too permeate and in no way adds up to an asset.

Now I’m not claiming that lowering taxes at this point in time is the answer to fix the economy. But everyone knows, even Obama that raising taxes would destroy the already shit economy, that’s why he gave so many “tax credits” in his stimulus and as of 4 years in office managed to not increase a single tax on anyone.


It's kinda like the wars, Obama was gonna end em, until he became President.

He did end the one in Iraq, and killed bin Laden.

Bush set the date for ending Iraq and Seal Team Six killed bin Laden.

LMAO!!!

In the same sentence you give credit for two things which happened during the Obama administration to arguably the absolute worst president this country has ever had. We didn't even spend a trillion dollars during the second world war and he spent it plus thousands of young American lives getting even with a man who tried to assassinate his daddy. Iraq didn't have a goddam thing to do with 9/11. Iraq didn't have a nuclear weapons program. Iraq didn't attack us. Where in hell is the logic for giving the dumbassed Texan credit for anything? He didn't even win the popular vote when he first came off the drunk driver's role.

 

[Too Tall]

He did end the one in Iraq, and killed bin Laden.

Bush set the date for ending Iraq and Seal Team Six killed bin Laden.

LMAO!!!

In the same sentence you give credit for two things which happened during the Obama administration to arguably the absolute worse president this country has ever had. We didn't even spend a trillion dollars during the second world war and he spent it plus thousands of young American lives getting even with a man who tried to assassinate his daddy. Iraq didn't have a goddam thing to do with 9/11. Iraq didn't have a nuclear weapons program. Iraq didn't attack us. Where in hell is the logic for giving the dumbassed Texan credit for anything? He didn't even win the popular vote when he first came off the drunk driver's role.

Sorry, I didn't know you adored Saddam Hussein.

 

[Cammmpbell]

Bush set the date for ending Iraq and Seal Team Six killed bin Laden.

LMAO!!!

In the same sentence you give credit for two things which happened during the Obama administration to arguably the absolute worse president this country has ever had. We didn't even spend a trillion dollars during the second world war and he spent it plus thousands of young American lives getting even with a man who tried to assassinate his daddy. Iraq didn't have a goddam thing to do with 9/11. Iraq didn't have a nuclear weapons program. Iraq didn't attack us. Where in hell is the logic for giving the dumbassed Texan credit for anything? He didn't even win the popular vote when he first came off the drunk driver's role.

Sorry, I didn't know you adored Saddam Hussein.

Excuse me!! You obviously think the cowboy had some excuse to lose 4500 young Americans in his unfunded(off budget) trillion dollar war. Duh!!

 

[Trajan]

ALL income regardless of how it is made ought to be taxed at the same rate.

If the top rate on income from labor is 36%, so too ought the top rate for investment bea 36%.

Now conservatives are fond of explaining to us that what is rewarded with tax dollars you'll get more of.

But apparently they aren't entirely on board with the other part of that astute observation.

What is PUNISHED by taxation you'll also get less of.

So we punish (by taxation) workers more harshly than investors.

And still some of us wonder why the working class feels angry and cheated.

Why is the answer always higher taxes.

I do agree that all income regardless of the source should be taxed at the same rate but a lower rate on gross income with the end of all the deductions, exemptions and tax credits would bring in more money as well.
A simple tax code would allow us to cut the size of government tax enforcement agencies thus increasing net revenue even more

I disagree in that there is and should be a reward award for risk.

 

[ilia25]

They already pay their fair share. So your reply is pure BS.

No, they don't. The rich are getting ever bigger share of the pie -- their incomes are growing much faster than those of 99%.

There is no pie.

Wealth is not a zero sum game.

We've been through this, haven't we?

There is a pie -- and yes, it is growing every year, but it is still a pie. And each passing year the low and middle income earners are getting ever smaller share of that year's pie.

If people wanted to make more money they could but it's been my experience that people don't want to do anything out of their comfort zone.

Fair enough. But do you think that 1% are living outside their comfort zone? I think they are enjoying doing their job. I think that is why they good at it. I think they are lucky because whatever they like doing anyway, also pays well.

And I don't mind them being paid well -- but getting a compensation that amounts to hundreds times of the average salary, just does not make sense.

 

[ilia25]

Top tax rates were at 70% when Microsoft and Apple were founded

Cum hoc, ergo propter hoc?

I believe so, yes....

So we have to ask; was the federal budget balanced at that time? Was there enough revenue to do that, and perhaps pay down debt?

Public debt was at 100% GDP at the end of WWII. It came down to just over 30% by the end of 70s -- and the top rates were ranging from 70% to 91% during that time.

 

[ilia25]

I got these quotes from the Cato link YOU provided.

I provided that link (at a request of one particularly fuck-faced moron) as a typical example of right-wing lies

High taxes do not shrink the tax base, unless you believe that billionaires are ready to risk a jail time to save money.

And high taxes do not kill incentives and innovation, which is the point of the OP.

OK, since you do not believe the Cato link, how about providing a link to prove that "high taxes do not shrink the tax base." Keep in mind that high marginal tax rates are not the same as the effective tax that people actually pay.

I assure you that the monied few do put their money in tax free bonds to preserve capital rather than send it to Washington. And that most assuredly does shrink the tax base.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...oft-and-apple-were-founded-9.html#post6392855

 

[Skull Pilot]

No, they don't. The rich are getting ever bigger share of the pie -- their incomes are growing much faster than those of 99%.

There is no pie.

Wealth is not a zero sum game.

We've been through this, haven't we?

There is a pie -- and yes, it is growing every year, but it is still a pie. And each passing year the low and middle income earners are getting ever smaller share of that year's pie.

If people wanted to make more money they could but it's been my experience that people don't want to do anything out of their comfort zone.

Fair enough. But do you think that 1% are living outside their comfort zone? I think they are enjoying doing their job. I think that is why they good at it. I think they are lucky because whatever they like doing anyway, also pays well.

And I don't mind them being paid well -- but getting a compensation that amounts to hundreds times of the average salary, just does not make sense.

If you want more pie then you are free to get off your ass and get it. Your problem is that you expect someone to just hand you your second helping.

And I don't give a shit what the 1% as you call them are doing or how they feel about it. The fact is those people either earned their money or someone in their family earned enough to leave a legacy.

The so called evil rich people in the world have not had one iota of effect on my life and I doubt they are the cause of your woes.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I provided that link (at a request of one particularly fuck-faced moron) as a typical example of right-wing lies

High taxes do not shrink the tax base, unless you believe that billionaires are ready to risk a jail time to save money.

And high taxes do not kill incentives and innovation, which is the point of the OP.

OK, since you do not believe the Cato link, how about providing a link to prove that "high taxes do not shrink the tax base." Keep in mind that high marginal tax rates are not the same as the effective tax that people actually pay.

I assure you that the monied few do put their money in tax free bonds to preserve capital rather than send it to Washington. And that most assuredly does shrink the tax base.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...oft-and-apple-were-founded-9.html#post6392855

Let me say this again so you understand.

ALL ALL ALL ALL ALL tax brackets were higher in 1975.

 

[Cammmpbell]

No, they don't. The rich are getting ever bigger share of the pie -- their incomes are growing much faster than those of 99%.

There is no pie.

Wealth is not a zero sum game.

We've been through this, haven't we?

There is a pie -- and yes, it is growing every year, but it is still a pie. And each passing year the low and middle income earners are getting ever smaller share of that year's pie.

If people wanted to make more money they could but it's been my experience that people don't want to do anything out of their comfort zone.

Fair enough. But do you think that 1% are living outside their comfort zone? I think they are enjoying doing their job. I think that is why they good at it. I think they are lucky because whatever they like doing anyway, also pays well.

And I don't mind them being paid well -- but getting a compensation that amounts to hundreds times of the average salary, just does not make sense.

Job, LMAO!

I had a new roof put on my house in July. The men who worked ten hours in the blazing sun for $150 have a job.

People who invest the money someone left them, look at a computer monitor or shuffle papers for $250,000 a year don't have a job. They have gained their status in a very suspect way. Their asses should at least have to serve two years in the military they way folks used to do. The America I see has tilted since Nixon and Reagan granted the uppercrust a free ride. Nixon stopped the draft and Reagan began to funnel money borrowed from foreign banks to them in the form of tax cuts. Pay particular attention to the trend of the 1% just before George Bush used reconciliation to block Democrat opposition and enacted new tax cuts in 2001 and 2003:

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

There is no pie.

Wealth is not a zero sum game.

We've been through this, haven't we?

There is a pie -- and yes, it is growing every year, but it is still a pie. And each passing year the low and middle income earners are getting ever smaller share of that year's pie.

If people wanted to make more money they could but it's been my experience that people don't want to do anything out of their comfort zone.

Fair enough. But do you think that 1% are living outside their comfort zone? I think they are enjoying doing their job. I think that is why they good at it. I think they are lucky because whatever they like doing anyway, also pays well.

And I don't mind them being paid well -- but getting a compensation that amounts to hundreds times of the average salary, just does not make sense.

Job, LMAO!

I had a new roof put on my house in July. The men who worked ten hours in the blazing sun for $150 have a job.

People who invest the money someone left them, look at a computer monitor or shuffle papers for $250,000 a year don't have a job. They have gained their status in a very suspect way. Their asses should at least have to serve two years in the military they way folks used to do. The America I see has tilted since Nixon and Reagan granted the uppercrust a free ride. Nixon stopped the draft and Reagan began to funnel money borrowed from foreign banks to them in the form of tax cuts. Pay particular attention to the trend of the 1% just before George Bush enacted new tax cuts in 2001 and 2003 using reconciliation to block Democrat opposition:

Where is the chart that shows what % of all income taxes are paid by the 1%?

 

[Cammmpbell]

We've been through this, haven't we?

There is a pie -- and yes, it is growing every year, but it is still a pie. And each passing year the low and middle income earners are getting ever smaller share of that year's pie.



Fair enough. But do you think that 1% are living outside their comfort zone? I think they are enjoying doing their job. I think that is why they good at it. I think they are lucky because whatever they like doing anyway, also pays well.

And I don't mind them being paid well -- but getting a compensation that amounts to hundreds times of the average salary, just does not make sense.

Job, LMAO!

I had a new roof put on my house in July. The men who worked ten hours in the blazing sun for $150 have a job.

People who invest the money someone left them, look at a computer monitor or shuffle papers for $250,000 a year don't have a job. They have gained their status in a very suspect way. Their asses should at least have to serve two years in the military they way folks used to do. The America I see has tilted since Nixon and Reagan granted the uppercrust a free ride. Nixon stopped the draft and Reagan began to funnel money borrowed from foreign banks to them in the form of tax cuts. Pay particular attention to the trend of the 1% just before George Bush enacted new tax cuts in 2001 and 2003 using reconciliation to block Democrat opposition:

Where is the chart that shows what % of all income taxes are paid by the 1%?

I just showed you the after tax income.....what do you want to do....give it all to them? As long as this country is borrowing from foreign banks and going further into debt the 1% having one of the lowest tax rates they've had during the history of this country is a joke.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Job, LMAO!

I had a new roof put on my house in July. The men who worked ten hours in the blazing sun for $150 have a job.

People who invest the money someone left them, look at a computer monitor or shuffle papers for $250,000 a year don't have a job. They have gained their status in a very suspect way. Their asses should at least have to serve two years in the military they way folks used to do. The America I see has tilted since Nixon and Reagan granted the uppercrust a free ride. Nixon stopped the draft and Reagan began to funnel money borrowed from foreign banks to them in the form of tax cuts. Pay particular attention to the trend of the 1% just before George Bush enacted new tax cuts in 2001 and 2003 using reconciliation to block Democrat opposition:

Where is the chart that shows what % of all income taxes are paid by the 1%?

I just showed you the after tax income.....what do you want to do....give it all to them? As long as this country is borrowing from foreign banks and going further into debt the 1% having one of the lowest tax rates they've had during the history of this country is a joke.

I just showed you the after tax income.....what do you want to do

I want to see how much of total income taxes they pay.
And your charts did NOT show after tax income.

 

[ilia25]

There is no pie.

Wealth is not a zero sum game.

We've been through this, haven't we?

There is a pie -- and yes, it is growing every year, but it is still a pie. And each passing year the low and middle income earners are getting ever smaller share of that year's pie.

If people wanted to make more money they could but it's been my experience that people don't want to do anything out of their comfort zone.

Fair enough. But do you think that 1% are living outside their comfort zone? I think they are enjoying doing their job. I think that is why they good at it. I think they are lucky because whatever they like doing anyway, also pays well.

And I don't mind them being paid well -- but getting a compensation that amounts to hundreds times of the average salary, just does not make sense.

If you want more pie then you are free to get off your ass and get it.

I would be getting it by taking it from someone else. Your problem is that you think that we could all become CEOs if only we would get off our asses. But then who would take the low paying jobs?

The fact is those people either earned their money or someone in their family earned enough

They have earned it because they were lucky to be born with the right set of talents and in the environment that let them develop the right skills.

They are not evil, they pursue happiness as everyone else. But it doesn't entitles them to a bigger reward.

We need some inequality so it motivates people. Not because some people have a moral right to claim a bigger share.

 

[Cammmpbell]

Where is the chart that shows what % of all income taxes are paid by the 1%?

I just showed you the after tax income.....what do you want to do....give it all to them? As long as this country is borrowing from foreign banks and going further into debt the 1% having one of the lowest tax rates they've had during the history of this country is a joke.

I just showed you the after tax income.....what do you want to do

I want to see how much of total income taxes they pay.
And your charts did NOT show after tax income.

DUUUUUUHH!!!

They pay most of it. This country was built on a progressive tax system and we managed to do very well till Reagan gave big tax cuts and began to borrow from foreign banks to cover the shortfall. Since the 1% got most of that borrowed money funneled to them they should be required to pay it back. Reagan and Bush41 quadrupled the national debt while the upper 1% was storing money away in their coffers a foot deep. One more time now.....just in case you're also deaf and dumb:

 

[ilia25]

Let me say this again so you understand.

ALL ALL ALL ALL ALL tax brackets were higher in 1975.

So what? We don't need all brackets to rise -- only the highest one. Or even create a new one, starting at 500 grands.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I just showed you the after tax income.....what do you want to do....give it all to them? As long as this country is borrowing from foreign banks and going further into debt the 1% having one of the lowest tax rates they've had during the history of this country is a joke.

I just showed you the after tax income.....what do you want to do

I want to see how much of total income taxes they pay.
And your charts did NOT show after tax income.

DUUUUUUHH!!!

They pay most of it. This country was built on a progressive tax system and we managed to do very well till Reagan gave big tax cuts and began to borrow from foreign banks to cover the shortfall. Since the 1% got most of that borrowed money funneled to them they should be required to pay it back. Reagan and Bush41 quadrupled the national debt while the upper 1% was storing money away in their coffers a foot deep. One more time now.....just in case you're also deaf and dumb:

Since the 1% got most of that borrowed money funneled to them they should be required to pay it back.

That's funny.
How much of total income tax do they pay now?
How much of the total did they pay before Reagan?

When you find out, you'll see how stupid your claim is.

 

[Cammmpbell]

I just showed you the after tax income.....what do you want to do

I want to see how much of total income taxes they pay.
And your charts did NOT show after tax income.

DUUUUUUHH!!!

They pay most of it. This country was built on a progressive tax system and we managed to do very well till Reagan gave big tax cuts and began to borrow from foreign banks to cover the shortfall. Since the 1% got most of that borrowed money funneled to them they should be required to pay it back. Reagan and Bush41 quadrupled the national debt while the upper 1% was storing money away in their coffers a foot deep. One more time now.....just in case you're also deaf and dumb:

Since the 1% got most of that borrowed money funneled to them they should be required to pay it back.

That's funny.
How much of total income tax do they pay now?
How much of the total did they pay before Reagan?

When you find out, you'll see how stupid your claim is.

Damn!! You're chattering like a magpie. If you've got something to show me go for it.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Job, LMAO!

I had a new roof put on my house in July. The men who worked ten hours in the blazing sun for $150 have a job.

People who invest the money someone left them, look at a computer monitor or shuffle papers for $250,000 a year don't have a job. They have gained their status in a very suspect way. Their asses should at least have to serve two years in the military they way folks used to do. The America I see has tilted since Nixon and Reagan granted the uppercrust a free ride. Nixon stopped the draft and Reagan began to funnel money borrowed from foreign banks to them in the form of tax cuts. Pay particular attention to the trend of the 1% just before George Bush enacted new tax cuts in 2001 and 2003 using reconciliation to block Democrat opposition:

Where is the chart that shows what % of all income taxes are paid by the 1%?

I just showed you the after tax income.....what do you want to do....give it all to them? As long as this country is borrowing from foreign banks and going further into debt the 1% having one of the lowest tax rates they've had during the history of this country is a joke.

I just showed you the after tax income.....

No you didn't.
Try again?