Top Three Mysteries in Liberal Beliefs

[emilynghiem]

If I had to summarize the Top Three Mysteries
I cannot understand with Liberal Beliefs, here they are.
Can any LIBERAL/PROGRESSIVE please take 1 and explain to me
using simple terms what you are REALLY trying to accomplish
and how you expect to achieve it THAT MAKES SENSE:

A. Ending abuse of firearms and gun violence

MYSTERY A:
How can Liberals only want POLICE to have guns
but then don't trust POLICE with guns either.
What is the solution?

1. Liberals only want REGISTERED and REGULATED
owners to have guns like POLICE and MILITARY.
2. But at the same time DON'T TRUST POLICE WITH GUNS
and want to DEFUND the military
3. So who is left to regulate laws except the police?
And if they aren't trusted with guns, who is?

If you are going to reduce military, and police the police,
what is your proposal for doing this without relying on
CITIZENS getting involved in policing and law enforcement.
And doesn't empowering CITIZENS to get involved
REQUIRE training in Constitutional laws and enforcement?

Which is what Second Amendment and Constitutionalists are arguing for?
Why are you disagreeing if the common solution *IS* Constitutional law enforcement!

B. Universal Health Care and either forced minimum wage or forced slave labor

MYSTERY B:
How can Liberals afford "universal health care" for all people except by
providing charitable and voluntary services. While the same liberals
demand minimum wage at 15.00 an hour and don't want slave labor.

How can you have both?

PS My answer to this is to set up Medical internships, teaching
hospitals and health care cooperatives IN PLACE OF FAILED
mental health and prison systems. So instead of wasting 50K a year
per person incarcerated under a FAILED system, we pay for educating
doctors and nurses through public service internships and
use those programs to TREAT criminally ill and prevent mental disorders
from causing MORE crime and triple the costs, where taxes can go toward
health care, education and housing through campus cooperatives that work.

DO YOU HAVE A BETTER SOLUTION HOW TO PROVIDE FREE
HEALTH CARE AND EDUCATION while preventing SLAVE LABOR
(with or without the 15.00/hour minimum wage if you can explain how that works!)

C. Socialism mandated through Federal taxes versus keeping religion out of Govt

MYSTERY C:

Liberals who believe in "separation of church and state" and don't
want Christians IMPLEMENTING their beliefs through schools and public institutions
want their SOCIALIST beliefs (such as health care for all people including immigrants)
mandated, regulated and paid for through Federal Govt forcing all TAXPAYERS to comply.

How can you FORCE taxpayers to pay for SOCIALISM beliefs,
while arguing AGAINST Christians doing this through Govt?

Is that DISCRIMINATION BY CREED to allow this for
SOCIALIST beliefs but bar Christians and other beliefs from
being established through Govt forcing the public to comply?

My answer: I am guessing that neither side will agree to remove their beliefs from Govt.
What we will end up with, is a system of allowing taxpayers to DEFUND The programs
they don't believe in funding, and setting up TAX BREAKS and TAX DEDUCTIONS
for investing in programs they DO believe in funding. And democratically set up
enough schools, hospital programs, housing and cooperatives for everyone to
pay for what they believe in under terms and conditions they consent to without conflict or coercion.

LIBERALS/PROGRESSIVES how do you answer these problems?

What SOLUTIONS and steps toward democratic social development do
you propose that either RESOLVES or AVOIDS the above 3 conflicts with others?

THANK YOU!

 

[Siete]

if RW's spent as much time, and energy solving their own issues as they do slinging mud at liberals they might gain a little credibility -

 

[miketx]

If I had to summarize the Top Three Mysteries
I cannot understand with Liberal Beliefs, here they are.
Can any LIBERAL/PROGRESSIVE please take 1 and explain to me
using simple terms what you are REALLY trying to accomplish
and how you expect to achieve it THAT MAKES SENSE:

A. Ending abuse of firearms and gun violence

MYSTERY A:
How can Liberals only want POLICE to have guns
but then don't trust POLICE with guns either.
What is the solution?

1. Liberals only want REGISTERED and REGULATED
owners to have guns like POLICE and MILITARY.
2. But at the same time DON'T TRUST POLICE WITH GUNS
and want to DEFUND the military
3. So who is left to regulate laws except the police?
And if they aren't trusted with guns, who is?

If you are going to reduce military, and police the police,
what is your proposal for doing this without relying on
CITIZENS getting involved in policing and law enforcement.
And doesn't empowering CITIZENS to get involved
REQUIRE training in Constitutional laws and enforcement?

Which is what Second Amendment and Constitutionalists are arguing for?
Why are you disagreeing if the common solution *IS* Constitutional law enforcement!

B. Universal Health Care and either forced minimum wage or forced slave labor

MYSTERY B:
How can Liberals afford "universal health care" for all people except by
providing charitable and voluntary services. While the same liberals
demand minimum wage at 15.00 an hour and don't want slave labor.

How can you have both?

PS My answer to this is to set up Medical internships, teaching
hospitals and health care cooperatives IN PLACE OF FAILED
mental health and prison systems. So instead of wasting 50K a year
per person incarcerated under a FAILED system, we pay for educating
doctors and nurses through public service internships and
use those programs to TREAT criminally ill and prevent mental disorders
from causing MORE crime and triple the costs, where taxes can go toward
health care, education and housing through campus cooperatives that work.

DO YOU HAVE A BETTER SOLUTION HOW TO PROVIDE FREE
HEALTH CARE AND EDUCATION while preventing SLAVE LABOR
(with or without the 15.00/hour minimum wage if you can explain how that works!)

C. Socialism mandated through Federal taxes versus keeping religion out of Govt

MYSTERY C:

Liberals who believe in "separation of church and state" and don't
want Christians IMPLEMENTING their beliefs through schools and public institutions
want their SOCIALIST beliefs (such as health care for all people including immigrants)
mandated, regulated and paid for through Federal Govt forcing all TAXPAYERS to comply.

How can you FORCE taxpayers to pay for SOCIALISM beliefs,
while arguing AGAINST Christians doing this through Govt?

Is that DISCRIMINATION BY CREED to allow this for
SOCIALIST beliefs but bar Christians and other beliefs from
being established through Govt forcing the public to comply?

My answer: I am guessing that neither side will agree to remove their beliefs from Govt.
What we will end up with, is a system of allowing taxpayers to DEFUND The programs
they don't believe in funding, and setting up TAX BREAKS and TAX DEDUCTIONS
for investing in programs they DO believe in funding. And democratically set up
enough schools, hospital programs, housing and cooperatives for everyone to
pay for what they believe in under terms and conditions they consent to without conflict or coercion.

LIBERALS/PROGRESSIVES how do you answer these problems?

What SOLUTIONS and steps toward democratic social development do
you propose that either RESOLVES or AVOIDS the above 3 conflicts with others?

THANK YOU!

They will never even attempt to answer that.

 

[Pogo]

If I had to summarize the Top Three Mysteries
I cannot understand with Liberal Beliefs, here they are.
Can any LIBERAL/PROGRESSIVE please take 1 and explain to me
using simple terms what you are REALLY trying to accomplish
and how you expect to achieve it THAT MAKES SENSE:

A. Ending abuse of firearms and gun violence

MYSTERY A:
How can Liberals only want POLICE to have guns
but then don't trust POLICE with guns either.
What is the solution?

1. Liberals only want REGISTERED and REGULATED
owners to have guns like POLICE and MILITARY.
2. But at the same time DON'T TRUST POLICE WITH GUNS
and want to DEFUND the military
3. So who is left to regulate laws except the police?
And if they aren't trusted with guns, who is?

If you are going to reduce military, and police the police,
what is your proposal for doing this without relying on
CITIZENS getting involved in policing and law enforcement.
And doesn't empowering CITIZENS to get involved
REQUIRE training in Constitutional laws and enforcement?

Which is what Second Amendment and Constitutionalists are arguing for?
Why are you disagreeing if the common solution *IS* Constitutional law enforcement!

B. Universal Health Care and either forced minimum wage or forced slave labor

MYSTERY B:
How can Liberals afford "universal health care" for all people except by
providing charitable and voluntary services. While the same liberals
demand minimum wage at 15.00 an hour and don't want slave labor.

How can you have both?

PS My answer to this is to set up Medical internships, teaching
hospitals and health care cooperatives IN PLACE OF FAILED
mental health and prison systems. So instead of wasting 50K a year
per person incarcerated under a FAILED system, we pay for educating
doctors and nurses through public service internships and
use those programs to TREAT criminally ill and prevent mental disorders
from causing MORE crime and triple the costs, where taxes can go toward
health care, education and housing through campus cooperatives that work.

DO YOU HAVE A BETTER SOLUTION HOW TO PROVIDE FREE
HEALTH CARE AND EDUCATION while preventing SLAVE LABOR
(with or without the 15.00/hour minimum wage if you can explain how that works!)

C. Socialism mandated through Federal taxes versus keeping religion out of Govt

MYSTERY C:

Liberals who believe in "separation of church and state" and don't
want Christians IMPLEMENTING their beliefs through schools and public institutions
want their SOCIALIST beliefs (such as health care for all people including immigrants)
mandated, regulated and paid for through Federal Govt forcing all TAXPAYERS to comply.

How can you FORCE taxpayers to pay for SOCIALISM beliefs,
while arguing AGAINST Christians doing this through Govt?

Is that DISCRIMINATION BY CREED to allow this for
SOCIALIST beliefs but bar Christians and other beliefs from
being established through Govt forcing the public to comply?

My answer: I am guessing that neither side will agree to remove their beliefs from Govt.
What we will end up with, is a system of allowing taxpayers to DEFUND The programs
they don't believe in funding, and setting up TAX BREAKS and TAX DEDUCTIONS
for investing in programs they DO believe in funding. And democratically set up
enough schools, hospital programs, housing and cooperatives for everyone to
pay for what they believe in under terms and conditions they consent to without conflict or coercion.

LIBERALS/PROGRESSIVES how do you answer these problems?

What SOLUTIONS and steps toward democratic social development do
you propose that either RESOLVES or AVOIDS the above 3 conflicts with others?

THANK YOU!

Mystery D:

Why do you construct a thread out of strawmen built on blanket generalizations?

 

[emilynghiem]

If I had to summarize the Top Three Mysteries
I cannot understand with Liberal Beliefs, here they are.
Can any LIBERAL/PROGRESSIVE please take 1 and explain to me
using simple terms what you are REALLY trying to accomplish
and how you expect to achieve it THAT MAKES SENSE:

A. Ending abuse of firearms and gun violence

MYSTERY A:
How can Liberals only want POLICE to have guns
but then don't trust POLICE with guns either.
What is the solution?

1. Liberals only want REGISTERED and REGULATED
owners to have guns like POLICE and MILITARY.
2. But at the same time DON'T TRUST POLICE WITH GUNS
and want to DEFUND the military
3. So who is left to regulate laws except the police?
And if they aren't trusted with guns, who is?

If you are going to reduce military, and police the police,
what is your proposal for doing this without relying on
CITIZENS getting involved in policing and law enforcement.
And doesn't empowering CITIZENS to get involved
REQUIRE training in Constitutional laws and enforcement?

Which is what Second Amendment and Constitutionalists are arguing for?
Why are you disagreeing if the common solution *IS* Constitutional law enforcement!

B. Universal Health Care and either forced minimum wage or forced slave labor

MYSTERY B:
How can Liberals afford "universal health care" for all people except by
providing charitable and voluntary services. While the same liberals
demand minimum wage at 15.00 an hour and don't want slave labor.

How can you have both?

PS My answer to this is to set up Medical internships, teaching
hospitals and health care cooperatives IN PLACE OF FAILED
mental health and prison systems. So instead of wasting 50K a year
per person incarcerated under a FAILED system, we pay for educating
doctors and nurses through public service internships and
use those programs to TREAT criminally ill and prevent mental disorders
from causing MORE crime and triple the costs, where taxes can go toward
health care, education and housing through campus cooperatives that work.

DO YOU HAVE A BETTER SOLUTION HOW TO PROVIDE FREE
HEALTH CARE AND EDUCATION while preventing SLAVE LABOR
(with or without the 15.00/hour minimum wage if you can explain how that works!)

C. Socialism mandated through Federal taxes versus keeping religion out of Govt

MYSTERY C:

Liberals who believe in "separation of church and state" and don't
want Christians IMPLEMENTING their beliefs through schools and public institutions
want their SOCIALIST beliefs (such as health care for all people including immigrants)
mandated, regulated and paid for through Federal Govt forcing all TAXPAYERS to comply.

How can you FORCE taxpayers to pay for SOCIALISM beliefs,
while arguing AGAINST Christians doing this through Govt?

Is that DISCRIMINATION BY CREED to allow this for
SOCIALIST beliefs but bar Christians and other beliefs from
being established through Govt forcing the public to comply?

My answer: I am guessing that neither side will agree to remove their beliefs from Govt.
What we will end up with, is a system of allowing taxpayers to DEFUND The programs
they don't believe in funding, and setting up TAX BREAKS and TAX DEDUCTIONS
for investing in programs they DO believe in funding. And democratically set up
enough schools, hospital programs, housing and cooperatives for everyone to
pay for what they believe in under terms and conditions they consent to without conflict or coercion.

LIBERALS/PROGRESSIVES how do you answer these problems?

What SOLUTIONS and steps toward democratic social development do
you propose that either RESOLVES or AVOIDS the above 3 conflicts with others?

THANK YOU!

Mystery D:

Why do you construct a thread out of strawmen built on blanket generalizations?

Dear Pogo
so someone like you will correct that
and post a solution that BYPASSES and avoids these conflicts.

Can you please share an example of a solution
that works and doesn't cause such dilemmas?

What is your solutions to
1. ending gun violence and firearms abuses
that DOESN'T cause these objections from left OR right
but satisfies what BOTH SIDES are trying to defend or achieve?
2. how do you solve the conflicts over
universal health care, paying for education
but without either slave labor or forced minimum wages?
3. how do you explain or resolve the situation
with neither party wanting others to impose THEIR beliefs through govt?

Thanks Pogo
You go first 1, 2, 3 wherever you have a solution
that doesn't cause the above problems. Go!

 

[miketx]

He'll never answer.

 

[emilynghiem]

if RW's spent as much time, and energy solving their own issues as they do slinging mud at liberals they might gain a little credibility -

Siete which problems do you want RW to address?
Can you list them, what is the problem,
and what is the problem with the solutions they propose.

If you have one,
what is YOUR solution that doesn't introduce more problems.

 

[emilynghiem]

He'll never answer.

Then miketx and Pogo
how DO we present these issues
where people WILL present better solutions?

How would YOU ask and answer
so we still get ideas or directions
toward more effective solutions
that make sense to all sides?

Thanks!

 

[Pogo]

If I had to summarize the Top Three Mysteries
I cannot understand with Liberal Beliefs, here they are.
Can any LIBERAL/PROGRESSIVE please take 1 and explain to me
using simple terms what you are REALLY trying to accomplish
and how you expect to achieve it THAT MAKES SENSE:

A. Ending abuse of firearms and gun violence

MYSTERY A:
How can Liberals only want POLICE to have guns
but then don't trust POLICE with guns either.
What is the solution?

1. Liberals only want REGISTERED and REGULATED
owners to have guns like POLICE and MILITARY.
2. But at the same time DON'T TRUST POLICE WITH GUNS
and want to DEFUND the military
3. So who is left to regulate laws except the police?
And if they aren't trusted with guns, who is?

If you are going to reduce military, and police the police,
what is your proposal for doing this without relying on
CITIZENS getting involved in policing and law enforcement.
And doesn't empowering CITIZENS to get involved
REQUIRE training in Constitutional laws and enforcement?

Which is what Second Amendment and Constitutionalists are arguing for?
Why are you disagreeing if the common solution *IS* Constitutional law enforcement!

B. Universal Health Care and either forced minimum wage or forced slave labor

MYSTERY B:
How can Liberals afford "universal health care" for all people except by
providing charitable and voluntary services. While the same liberals
demand minimum wage at 15.00 an hour and don't want slave labor.

How can you have both?

PS My answer to this is to set up Medical internships, teaching
hospitals and health care cooperatives IN PLACE OF FAILED
mental health and prison systems. So instead of wasting 50K a year
per person incarcerated under a FAILED system, we pay for educating
doctors and nurses through public service internships and
use those programs to TREAT criminally ill and prevent mental disorders
from causing MORE crime and triple the costs, where taxes can go toward
health care, education and housing through campus cooperatives that work.

DO YOU HAVE A BETTER SOLUTION HOW TO PROVIDE FREE
HEALTH CARE AND EDUCATION while preventing SLAVE LABOR
(with or without the 15.00/hour minimum wage if you can explain how that works!)

C. Socialism mandated through Federal taxes versus keeping religion out of Govt

MYSTERY C:

Liberals who believe in "separation of church and state" and don't
want Christians IMPLEMENTING their beliefs through schools and public institutions
want their SOCIALIST beliefs (such as health care for all people including immigrants)
mandated, regulated and paid for through Federal Govt forcing all TAXPAYERS to comply.

How can you FORCE taxpayers to pay for SOCIALISM beliefs,
while arguing AGAINST Christians doing this through Govt?

Is that DISCRIMINATION BY CREED to allow this for
SOCIALIST beliefs but bar Christians and other beliefs from
being established through Govt forcing the public to comply?

My answer: I am guessing that neither side will agree to remove their beliefs from Govt.
What we will end up with, is a system of allowing taxpayers to DEFUND The programs
they don't believe in funding, and setting up TAX BREAKS and TAX DEDUCTIONS
for investing in programs they DO believe in funding. And democratically set up
enough schools, hospital programs, housing and cooperatives for everyone to
pay for what they believe in under terms and conditions they consent to without conflict or coercion.

LIBERALS/PROGRESSIVES how do you answer these problems?

What SOLUTIONS and steps toward democratic social development do
you propose that either RESOLVES or AVOIDS the above 3 conflicts with others?

THANK YOU!

Mystery D:

Why do you construct a thread out of strawmen built on blanket generalizations?

Dear Pogo
so someone like you will correct that
and post a solution that BYPASSES and avoids these conflicts.

Can you please share an example of a solution
that works and doesn't cause such dilemmas?

What is your solutions to
1. ending gun violence and firearms abuses
that DOESN'T cause these objections from left OR right
but satisfies what BOTH SIDES are trying to defend or achieve?
2. how do you solve the conflicts over
universal health care, paying for education
but without either slave labor or forced minimum wages?
3. how do you explain or resolve the situation
with neither party wanting others to impose THEIR beliefs through govt?

Thanks Pogo
You go first 1, 2, 3 wherever you have a solution
that doesn't cause the above problems. Go!

I've actually BEEN posting on #1 since the day I got here, time after time. To reiterate yet again, I don't believe in throwing laws at everything, particularly when the issue is a SOCIAL one rather than a legal one. Such is the case here. We don't have a gun violence problem because we have this law or don't have that law --- we have a gun violence problem because we swim in the soup of a culture that glorifies it. "Laws" don't change that. They can't.

So I question the very premise that such condition needs or begs a legal solution. That's a spiritual condition, not a legal one. As long as we swim in the soup of a culture of death and violence, that value will continue to infect, laws or no laws.

And more fundamentally I challenge your assertion that "Liberals want this" and "Liberals want that". Not only is that a blanket generalization but it's a strawman too. If you want the actual Liberal perspective, I just articulated it.

 

[Moonglow]

If I had to summarize the Top Three Mysteries
I cannot understand with Liberal Beliefs, here they are.
Can any LIBERAL/PROGRESSIVE please take 1 and explain to me
using simple terms what you are REALLY trying to accomplish
and how you expect to achieve it THAT MAKES SENSE:

A. Ending abuse of firearms and gun violence

MYSTERY A:
How can Liberals only want POLICE to have guns
but then don't trust POLICE with guns either.
What is the solution?

1. Liberals only want REGISTERED and REGULATED
owners to have guns like POLICE and MILITARY.
2. But at the same time DON'T TRUST POLICE WITH GUNS
and want to DEFUND the military
3. So who is left to regulate laws except the police?
And if they aren't trusted with guns, who is?

If you are going to reduce military, and police the police,
what is your proposal for doing this without relying on
CITIZENS getting involved in policing and law enforcement.
And doesn't empowering CITIZENS to get involved
REQUIRE training in Constitutional laws and enforcement?

Which is what Second Amendment and Constitutionalists are arguing for?
Why are you disagreeing if the common solution *IS* Constitutional law enforcement!

B. Universal Health Care and either forced minimum wage or forced slave labor

MYSTERY B:
How can Liberals afford "universal health care" for all people except by
providing charitable and voluntary services. While the same liberals
demand minimum wage at 15.00 an hour and don't want slave labor.

How can you have both?

PS My answer to this is to set up Medical internships, teaching
hospitals and health care cooperatives IN PLACE OF FAILED
mental health and prison systems. So instead of wasting 50K a year
per person incarcerated under a FAILED system, we pay for educating
doctors and nurses through public service internships and
use those programs to TREAT criminally ill and prevent mental disorders
from causing MORE crime and triple the costs, where taxes can go toward
health care, education and housing through campus cooperatives that work.

DO YOU HAVE A BETTER SOLUTION HOW TO PROVIDE FREE
HEALTH CARE AND EDUCATION while preventing SLAVE LABOR
(with or without the 15.00/hour minimum wage if you can explain how that works!)

C. Socialism mandated through Federal taxes versus keeping religion out of Govt

MYSTERY C:

Liberals who believe in "separation of church and state" and don't
want Christians IMPLEMENTING their beliefs through schools and public institutions
want their SOCIALIST beliefs (such as health care for all people including immigrants)
mandated, regulated and paid for through Federal Govt forcing all TAXPAYERS to comply.

How can you FORCE taxpayers to pay for SOCIALISM beliefs,
while arguing AGAINST Christians doing this through Govt?

Is that DISCRIMINATION BY CREED to allow this for
SOCIALIST beliefs but bar Christians and other beliefs from
being established through Govt forcing the public to comply?

My answer: I am guessing that neither side will agree to remove their beliefs from Govt.
What we will end up with, is a system of allowing taxpayers to DEFUND The programs
they don't believe in funding, and setting up TAX BREAKS and TAX DEDUCTIONS
for investing in programs they DO believe in funding. And democratically set up
enough schools, hospital programs, housing and cooperatives for everyone to
pay for what they believe in under terms and conditions they consent to without conflict or coercion.

LIBERALS/PROGRESSIVES how do you answer these problems?

What SOLUTIONS and steps toward democratic social development do
you propose that either RESOLVES or AVOIDS the above 3 conflicts with others?

THANK YOU!

Anti Gun people can be liberals and thy can not be liberals..I as a liberal am pro gun and hunt...A liberal is someone that thinks that citizens should have rights and those rights are protected by the govt.
What should be confusing to you is why people claim to be conservative yet hold some liberal ideas. Like rights afforded citizens..

 

[emilynghiem]

If I had to summarize the Top Three Mysteries
I cannot understand with Liberal Beliefs, here they are.
Can any LIBERAL/PROGRESSIVE please take 1 and explain to me
using simple terms what you are REALLY trying to accomplish
and how you expect to achieve it THAT MAKES SENSE:

A. Ending abuse of firearms and gun violence

MYSTERY A:
How can Liberals only want POLICE to have guns
but then don't trust POLICE with guns either.
What is the solution?

1. Liberals only want REGISTERED and REGULATED
owners to have guns like POLICE and MILITARY.
2. But at the same time DON'T TRUST POLICE WITH GUNS
and want to DEFUND the military
3. So who is left to regulate laws except the police?
And if they aren't trusted with guns, who is?

If you are going to reduce military, and police the police,
what is your proposal for doing this without relying on
CITIZENS getting involved in policing and law enforcement.
And doesn't empowering CITIZENS to get involved
REQUIRE training in Constitutional laws and enforcement?

Which is what Second Amendment and Constitutionalists are arguing for?
Why are you disagreeing if the common solution *IS* Constitutional law enforcement!

B. Universal Health Care and either forced minimum wage or forced slave labor

MYSTERY B:
How can Liberals afford "universal health care" for all people except by
providing charitable and voluntary services. While the same liberals
demand minimum wage at 15.00 an hour and don't want slave labor.

How can you have both?

PS My answer to this is to set up Medical internships, teaching
hospitals and health care cooperatives IN PLACE OF FAILED
mental health and prison systems. So instead of wasting 50K a year
per person incarcerated under a FAILED system, we pay for educating
doctors and nurses through public service internships and
use those programs to TREAT criminally ill and prevent mental disorders
from causing MORE crime and triple the costs, where taxes can go toward
health care, education and housing through campus cooperatives that work.

DO YOU HAVE A BETTER SOLUTION HOW TO PROVIDE FREE
HEALTH CARE AND EDUCATION while preventing SLAVE LABOR
(with or without the 15.00/hour minimum wage if you can explain how that works!)

C. Socialism mandated through Federal taxes versus keeping religion out of Govt

MYSTERY C:

Liberals who believe in "separation of church and state" and don't
want Christians IMPLEMENTING their beliefs through schools and public institutions
want their SOCIALIST beliefs (such as health care for all people including immigrants)
mandated, regulated and paid for through Federal Govt forcing all TAXPAYERS to comply.

How can you FORCE taxpayers to pay for SOCIALISM beliefs,
while arguing AGAINST Christians doing this through Govt?

Is that DISCRIMINATION BY CREED to allow this for
SOCIALIST beliefs but bar Christians and other beliefs from
being established through Govt forcing the public to comply?

My answer: I am guessing that neither side will agree to remove their beliefs from Govt.
What we will end up with, is a system of allowing taxpayers to DEFUND The programs
they don't believe in funding, and setting up TAX BREAKS and TAX DEDUCTIONS
for investing in programs they DO believe in funding. And democratically set up
enough schools, hospital programs, housing and cooperatives for everyone to
pay for what they believe in under terms and conditions they consent to without conflict or coercion.

LIBERALS/PROGRESSIVES how do you answer these problems?

What SOLUTIONS and steps toward democratic social development do
you propose that either RESOLVES or AVOIDS the above 3 conflicts with others?

THANK YOU!

Mystery D:

Why do you construct a thread out of strawmen built on blanket generalizations?

Dear Pogo
so someone like you will correct that
and post a solution that BYPASSES and avoids these conflicts.

Can you please share an example of a solution
that works and doesn't cause such dilemmas?

What is your solutions to
1. ending gun violence and firearms abuses
that DOESN'T cause these objections from left OR right
but satisfies what BOTH SIDES are trying to defend or achieve?
2. how do you solve the conflicts over
universal health care, paying for education
but without either slave labor or forced minimum wages?
3. how do you explain or resolve the situation
with neither party wanting others to impose THEIR beliefs through govt?

Thanks Pogo
You go first 1, 2, 3 wherever you have a solution
that doesn't cause the above problems. Go!

I've actually BEEN posting on #1 since the day I got here, time after time. To reiterate yet again, I don't believe in throwing laws at everything, particularly when the issue is a SOCIAL one rather than a legal one. Such is the case here. We don't have a gun violence problem because we have this law or don't have that law --- we have a gun violence problem because we swim in the soup of a culture that glorifies it. "Laws" don't change that. They can't.

So I question the very premise that such condition needs or begs a legal solution. That's a spiritual condition, not a legal one. As long as we swim in the soup of a culture of death and violence, that value will continue to infect, laws or no laws.

And more fundamentally I challenge your assertion that "Liberals want this" and "Liberals want that". Not only is that a blanket generalization but it's a strawman too. If you want the actual Liberal perspective, I just articulated it.

Okay Pogo great we agree there is a SPIRITUAL condition going on.

Let's start with that.

Given the conflicts and political pushing over gun rights,
gun laws, gun violence and anything related
where do you see a SPIRITUAL change can focus on

1. better screening and treatment for criminal and mental illness
2. better training and cooperation on safe law enforcement between citizens and police
3. better community development and conflict resolution in schools and in politics/govt
4. better use of media to promote better approaches/solutions

Where would you like to see a new beginning
and different approach to solving politics around gun issues?

 

[emilynghiem]

If I had to summarize the Top Three Mysteries
I cannot understand with Liberal Beliefs, here they are.
Can any LIBERAL/PROGRESSIVE please take 1 and explain to me
using simple terms what you are REALLY trying to accomplish
and how you expect to achieve it THAT MAKES SENSE:

A. Ending abuse of firearms and gun violence

MYSTERY A:
How can Liberals only want POLICE to have guns
but then don't trust POLICE with guns either.
What is the solution?

1. Liberals only want REGISTERED and REGULATED
owners to have guns like POLICE and MILITARY.
2. But at the same time DON'T TRUST POLICE WITH GUNS
and want to DEFUND the military
3. So who is left to regulate laws except the police?
And if they aren't trusted with guns, who is?

If you are going to reduce military, and police the police,
what is your proposal for doing this without relying on
CITIZENS getting involved in policing and law enforcement.
And doesn't empowering CITIZENS to get involved
REQUIRE training in Constitutional laws and enforcement?

Which is what Second Amendment and Constitutionalists are arguing for?
Why are you disagreeing if the common solution *IS* Constitutional law enforcement!

B. Universal Health Care and either forced minimum wage or forced slave labor

MYSTERY B:
How can Liberals afford "universal health care" for all people except by
providing charitable and voluntary services. While the same liberals
demand minimum wage at 15.00 an hour and don't want slave labor.

How can you have both?

PS My answer to this is to set up Medical internships, teaching
hospitals and health care cooperatives IN PLACE OF FAILED
mental health and prison systems. So instead of wasting 50K a year
per person incarcerated under a FAILED system, we pay for educating
doctors and nurses through public service internships and
use those programs to TREAT criminally ill and prevent mental disorders
from causing MORE crime and triple the costs, where taxes can go toward
health care, education and housing through campus cooperatives that work.

DO YOU HAVE A BETTER SOLUTION HOW TO PROVIDE FREE
HEALTH CARE AND EDUCATION while preventing SLAVE LABOR
(with or without the 15.00/hour minimum wage if you can explain how that works!)

C. Socialism mandated through Federal taxes versus keeping religion out of Govt

MYSTERY C:

Liberals who believe in "separation of church and state" and don't
want Christians IMPLEMENTING their beliefs through schools and public institutions
want their SOCIALIST beliefs (such as health care for all people including immigrants)
mandated, regulated and paid for through Federal Govt forcing all TAXPAYERS to comply.

How can you FORCE taxpayers to pay for SOCIALISM beliefs,
while arguing AGAINST Christians doing this through Govt?

Is that DISCRIMINATION BY CREED to allow this for
SOCIALIST beliefs but bar Christians and other beliefs from
being established through Govt forcing the public to comply?

My answer: I am guessing that neither side will agree to remove their beliefs from Govt.
What we will end up with, is a system of allowing taxpayers to DEFUND The programs
they don't believe in funding, and setting up TAX BREAKS and TAX DEDUCTIONS
for investing in programs they DO believe in funding. And democratically set up
enough schools, hospital programs, housing and cooperatives for everyone to
pay for what they believe in under terms and conditions they consent to without conflict or coercion.

LIBERALS/PROGRESSIVES how do you answer these problems?

What SOLUTIONS and steps toward democratic social development do
you propose that either RESOLVES or AVOIDS the above 3 conflicts with others?

THANK YOU!

Anti Gun people can be liberals and thy can not be liberals..I as a liberal am pro gun and hunt...A liberal is someone that thing that citizens should have rights and those rights are protected by the govt.

Thanks Moonglow
How can we do a better job educating and empowering
the public to understand what you just posted ^ above ^
to take a more constructive approach instead of combative?

 

[anynameyouwish]

If I had to summarize the Top Three Mysteries
I cannot understand with Liberal Beliefs, here they are.
Can any LIBERAL/PROGRESSIVE please take 1 and explain to me
using simple terms what you are REALLY trying to accomplish
and how you expect to achieve it THAT MAKES SENSE:

A. Ending abuse of firearms and gun violence

MYSTERY A:
How can Liberals only want POLICE to have guns
but then don't trust POLICE with guns either.
What is the solution?

1. Liberals only want REGISTERED and REGULATED
owners to have guns like POLICE and MILITARY.
2. But at the same time DON'T TRUST POLICE WITH GUNS
and want to DEFUND the military
3. So who is left to regulate laws except the police?
And if they aren't trusted with guns, who is?

If you are going to reduce military, and police the police,
what is your proposal for doing this without relying on
CITIZENS getting involved in policing and law enforcement.
And doesn't empowering CITIZENS to get involved
REQUIRE training in Constitutional laws and enforcement?

Which is what Second Amendment and Constitutionalists are arguing for?
Why are you disagreeing if the common solution *IS* Constitutional law enforcement!

B. Universal Health Care and either forced minimum wage or forced slave labor

MYSTERY B:
How can Liberals afford "universal health care" for all people except by
providing charitable and voluntary services. While the same liberals
demand minimum wage at 15.00 an hour and don't want slave labor.

How can you have both?

PS My answer to this is to set up Medical internships, teaching
hospitals and health care cooperatives IN PLACE OF FAILED
mental health and prison systems. So instead of wasting 50K a year
per person incarcerated under a FAILED system, we pay for educating
doctors and nurses through public service internships and
use those programs to TREAT criminally ill and prevent mental disorders
from causing MORE crime and triple the costs, where taxes can go toward
health care, education and housing through campus cooperatives that work.

DO YOU HAVE A BETTER SOLUTION HOW TO PROVIDE FREE
HEALTH CARE AND EDUCATION while preventing SLAVE LABOR
(with or without the 15.00/hour minimum wage if you can explain how that works!)

C. Socialism mandated through Federal taxes versus keeping religion out of Govt

MYSTERY C:

Liberals who believe in "separation of church and state" and don't
want Christians IMPLEMENTING their beliefs through schools and public institutions
want their SOCIALIST beliefs (such as health care for all people including immigrants)
mandated, regulated and paid for through Federal Govt forcing all TAXPAYERS to comply.

How can you FORCE taxpayers to pay for SOCIALISM beliefs,
while arguing AGAINST Christians doing this through Govt?

Is that DISCRIMINATION BY CREED to allow this for
SOCIALIST beliefs but bar Christians and other beliefs from
being established through Govt forcing the public to comply?

My answer: I am guessing that neither side will agree to remove their beliefs from Govt.
What we will end up with, is a system of allowing taxpayers to DEFUND The programs
they don't believe in funding, and setting up TAX BREAKS and TAX DEDUCTIONS
for investing in programs they DO believe in funding. And democratically set up
enough schools, hospital programs, housing and cooperatives for everyone to
pay for what they believe in under terms and conditions they consent to without conflict or coercion.

LIBERALS/PROGRESSIVES how do you answer these problems?

What SOLUTIONS and steps toward democratic social development do
you propose that either RESOLVES or AVOIDS the above 3 conflicts with others?

THANK YOU!

1. Liberals only want REGISTERED and REGULATED
owners to have guns like POLICE and MILITARY.


lie.


trained and licensed like a regular person with a car.

why do you lie?


2. But at the same time DON'T TRUST POLICE WITH GUNS
and want to DEFUND the military

lie.

why do you lie?

I don't want police roaming around shooting people for talking on their cell phones but I have no problem with police having guns and I definitely do NOT want to defund the military.

I'm not happy that our military budget is 10 times what the next 9 nations spend COMBINED and yet we can't beat china or russia but since i do not trust n korea, russia, china, iran...etc....I definitely do NOT want to defund the military.

Besides, I might need them to keep YOU from killing me.

Why do you lie?


MYSTERY B:
"How can Liberals afford "universal health care" for all people except by
providing charitable and voluntary services. While the same liberals
demand minimum wage at 15.00 an hour and don't want slave labor.

How can you have both? "


Is this why you want to kill them?
because they are silly goobers who don't want slavery but do want affordable health care?

is that really a good enough reason to slaughter millions of people?


MYSTERY C

"Liberals who believe in "separation of church and state" and don't
want Christians IMPLEMENTING their beliefs through schools and public institutions
want their SOCIALIST beliefs (such as health care for all people including immigrants)
mandated, regulated and paid for through Federal Govt forcing all TAXPAYERS to comply.

How can you FORCE taxpayers to pay for SOCIALISM beliefs,
while arguing AGAINST Christians doing this through Govt?"


We FORCE PEOPLE to pay for certain things...like....

police with guns
and a heavily funded military

and public schools
and roads....

none of these things are religious based.

they do not favor one religion or one ideology over the others.

They would be available for ALL citizens regardless of religion.

Where-as YOUR desire to indoctrinate MY kids with YOUR dangerous and deluded religious beliefs favors YOUR religion and teaches MY KIDS to hate me.

so keep your hate based religions to yourself.

 

[Moonglow]

He'll never answer.

Then miketx and Pogo
how DO we present these issues
where people WILL present better solutions?

How would YOU ask and answer
so we still get ideas or directions
toward more effective solutions
that make sense to all sides?

Thanks!

Stop with the emotive rhetoric from politicians..

 

[Moonglow]

As long as our society and other societies are dominated by dark monies our govts. will cause the common folks to have conflict amongst themselves because that is the ploy to have the common folks not notice how the dark leaders of govt. and business take away the cream and barely leave enough for the majority to live on..

 

[Moonglow]

If I had to summarize the Top Three Mysteries
I cannot understand with Liberal Beliefs, here they are.
Can any LIBERAL/PROGRESSIVE please take 1 and explain to me
using simple terms what you are REALLY trying to accomplish
and how you expect to achieve it THAT MAKES SENSE:

A. Ending abuse of firearms and gun violence

MYSTERY A:
How can Liberals only want POLICE to have guns
but then don't trust POLICE with guns either.
What is the solution?

1. Liberals only want REGISTERED and REGULATED
owners to have guns like POLICE and MILITARY.
2. But at the same time DON'T TRUST POLICE WITH GUNS
and want to DEFUND the military
3. So who is left to regulate laws except the police?
And if they aren't trusted with guns, who is?

If you are going to reduce military, and police the police,
what is your proposal for doing this without relying on
CITIZENS getting involved in policing and law enforcement.
And doesn't empowering CITIZENS to get involved
REQUIRE training in Constitutional laws and enforcement?

Which is what Second Amendment and Constitutionalists are arguing for?
Why are you disagreeing if the common solution *IS* Constitutional law enforcement!

B. Universal Health Care and either forced minimum wage or forced slave labor

MYSTERY B:
How can Liberals afford "universal health care" for all people except by
providing charitable and voluntary services. While the same liberals
demand minimum wage at 15.00 an hour and don't want slave labor.

How can you have both?

PS My answer to this is to set up Medical internships, teaching
hospitals and health care cooperatives IN PLACE OF FAILED
mental health and prison systems. So instead of wasting 50K a year
per person incarcerated under a FAILED system, we pay for educating
doctors and nurses through public service internships and
use those programs to TREAT criminally ill and prevent mental disorders
from causing MORE crime and triple the costs, where taxes can go toward
health care, education and housing through campus cooperatives that work.

DO YOU HAVE A BETTER SOLUTION HOW TO PROVIDE FREE
HEALTH CARE AND EDUCATION while preventing SLAVE LABOR
(with or without the 15.00/hour minimum wage if you can explain how that works!)

C. Socialism mandated through Federal taxes versus keeping religion out of Govt

MYSTERY C:

Liberals who believe in "separation of church and state" and don't
want Christians IMPLEMENTING their beliefs through schools and public institutions
want their SOCIALIST beliefs (such as health care for all people including immigrants)
mandated, regulated and paid for through Federal Govt forcing all TAXPAYERS to comply.

How can you FORCE taxpayers to pay for SOCIALISM beliefs,
while arguing AGAINST Christians doing this through Govt?

Is that DISCRIMINATION BY CREED to allow this for
SOCIALIST beliefs but bar Christians and other beliefs from
being established through Govt forcing the public to comply?

My answer: I am guessing that neither side will agree to remove their beliefs from Govt.
What we will end up with, is a system of allowing taxpayers to DEFUND The programs
they don't believe in funding, and setting up TAX BREAKS and TAX DEDUCTIONS
for investing in programs they DO believe in funding. And democratically set up
enough schools, hospital programs, housing and cooperatives for everyone to
pay for what they believe in under terms and conditions they consent to without conflict or coercion.

LIBERALS/PROGRESSIVES how do you answer these problems?

What SOLUTIONS and steps toward democratic social development do
you propose that either RESOLVES or AVOIDS the above 3 conflicts with others?

THANK YOU!

Anti Gun people can be liberals and thy can not be liberals..I as a liberal am pro gun and hunt...A liberal is someone that thing that citizens should have rights and those rights are protected by the govt.

Thanks Moonglow
How can we do a better job educating and empowering
the public to understand what you just posted ^ above ^
to take a more constructive approach instead of combative?

Get people to stop listening to hussle jockeys like Rush, Hannity, CNN et al.. They really are the problem they are never the solution. More town hall meetings and a general education of the issues by telling the truth for a change.

 

[Pogo]

If I had to summarize the Top Three Mysteries
I cannot understand with Liberal Beliefs, here they are.
Can any LIBERAL/PROGRESSIVE please take 1 and explain to me
using simple terms what you are REALLY trying to accomplish
and how you expect to achieve it THAT MAKES SENSE:

A. Ending abuse of firearms and gun violence

MYSTERY A:
How can Liberals only want POLICE to have guns
but then don't trust POLICE with guns either.
What is the solution?

1. Liberals only want REGISTERED and REGULATED
owners to have guns like POLICE and MILITARY.
2. But at the same time DON'T TRUST POLICE WITH GUNS
and want to DEFUND the military
3. So who is left to regulate laws except the police?
And if they aren't trusted with guns, who is?

If you are going to reduce military, and police the police,
what is your proposal for doing this without relying on
CITIZENS getting involved in policing and law enforcement.
And doesn't empowering CITIZENS to get involved
REQUIRE training in Constitutional laws and enforcement?

Which is what Second Amendment and Constitutionalists are arguing for?
Why are you disagreeing if the common solution *IS* Constitutional law enforcement!

B. Universal Health Care and either forced minimum wage or forced slave labor

MYSTERY B:
How can Liberals afford "universal health care" for all people except by
providing charitable and voluntary services. While the same liberals
demand minimum wage at 15.00 an hour and don't want slave labor.

How can you have both?

PS My answer to this is to set up Medical internships, teaching
hospitals and health care cooperatives IN PLACE OF FAILED
mental health and prison systems. So instead of wasting 50K a year
per person incarcerated under a FAILED system, we pay for educating
doctors and nurses through public service internships and
use those programs to TREAT criminally ill and prevent mental disorders
from causing MORE crime and triple the costs, where taxes can go toward
health care, education and housing through campus cooperatives that work.

DO YOU HAVE A BETTER SOLUTION HOW TO PROVIDE FREE
HEALTH CARE AND EDUCATION while preventing SLAVE LABOR
(with or without the 15.00/hour minimum wage if you can explain how that works!)

C. Socialism mandated through Federal taxes versus keeping religion out of Govt

MYSTERY C:

Liberals who believe in "separation of church and state" and don't
want Christians IMPLEMENTING their beliefs through schools and public institutions
want their SOCIALIST beliefs (such as health care for all people including immigrants)
mandated, regulated and paid for through Federal Govt forcing all TAXPAYERS to comply.

How can you FORCE taxpayers to pay for SOCIALISM beliefs,
while arguing AGAINST Christians doing this through Govt?

Is that DISCRIMINATION BY CREED to allow this for
SOCIALIST beliefs but bar Christians and other beliefs from
being established through Govt forcing the public to comply?

My answer: I am guessing that neither side will agree to remove their beliefs from Govt.
What we will end up with, is a system of allowing taxpayers to DEFUND The programs
they don't believe in funding, and setting up TAX BREAKS and TAX DEDUCTIONS
for investing in programs they DO believe in funding. And democratically set up
enough schools, hospital programs, housing and cooperatives for everyone to
pay for what they believe in under terms and conditions they consent to without conflict or coercion.

LIBERALS/PROGRESSIVES how do you answer these problems?

What SOLUTIONS and steps toward democratic social development do
you propose that either RESOLVES or AVOIDS the above 3 conflicts with others?

THANK YOU!

Mystery D:

Why do you construct a thread out of strawmen built on blanket generalizations?

Dear Pogo
so someone like you will correct that
and post a solution that BYPASSES and avoids these conflicts.

Can you please share an example of a solution
that works and doesn't cause such dilemmas?

What is your solutions to
1. ending gun violence and firearms abuses
that DOESN'T cause these objections from left OR right
but satisfies what BOTH SIDES are trying to defend or achieve?
2. how do you solve the conflicts over
universal health care, paying for education
but without either slave labor or forced minimum wages?
3. how do you explain or resolve the situation
with neither party wanting others to impose THEIR beliefs through govt?

Thanks Pogo
You go first 1, 2, 3 wherever you have a solution
that doesn't cause the above problems. Go!

I've actually BEEN posting on #1 since the day I got here, time after time. To reiterate yet again, I don't believe in throwing laws at everything, particularly when the issue is a SOCIAL one rather than a legal one. Such is the case here. We don't have a gun violence problem because we have this law or don't have that law --- we have a gun violence problem because we swim in the soup of a culture that glorifies it. "Laws" don't change that. They can't.

So I question the very premise that such condition needs or begs a legal solution. That's a spiritual condition, not a legal one. As long as we swim in the soup of a culture of death and violence, that value will continue to infect, laws or no laws.

And more fundamentally I challenge your assertion that "Liberals want this" and "Liberals want that". Not only is that a blanket generalization but it's a strawman too. If you want the actual Liberal perspective, I just articulated it.

Okay Pogo great we agree there is a SPIRITUAL condition going on.

Let's start with that.

Given the conflicts and political pushing over gun rights,
gun laws, gun violence and anything related
where do you see a SPIRITUAL change can focus on

1. better screening and treatment for criminal and mental illness
2. better training and cooperation on safe law enforcement between citizens and police
3. better community development and conflict resolution in schools and in politics/govt
4. better use of media to promote better approaches/solutions

Where would you like to see a new beginning
and different approach to solving politics around gun issues?

Except for your #4, none of these are relevant. They're AGAIN drifting back to "laws", and that's really pointless.

Cultural values don't come from laws and they can't be legislated. They DO come from, or are reinforced by, media, so that point is worthy. They also come from the home and the environment. When we stop looking at violence and particularly gun violence as the "natural" solution to any conflict, THAT is when gun violence subsides, simply because it's less thinkable. It requires a massive psychological shift AWAY from the whole "might makes right" malarkey. As I said, spriitual values, not legislative ones.

We make robbery, and assault, and rape, illegal but that's not why people shouldn't do it. People shouldn't do them because they're wrong. All the laws do is dictate what the real-world consequences will be.

I often use smoking as an analogy --- there was a time 50 to 75 years ago when everybody smoked, in restaurants, in doctors offices, in planes, buses, etc. And in the movies, which supposedly reflect real life. Now we can enjoy a meal, visit a doctor, take a plane trip without being subjected to that shit, and the movies reflect it. We didn't do that by throwing laws at smoking. We did it by shifting social mores.

Bottom line: gun violence is not a political issue, so stop going at it with political approaches. It's a social value issue. And just to get into the weeds a bit, it's specifically a gender issue. That again, is a social value.

 

[miketx]

He'll never answer.

Then miketx and Pogo
how DO we present these issues
where people WILL present better solutions?

How would YOU ask and answer
so we still get ideas or directions
toward more effective solutions
that make sense to all sides?

Thanks!

You wont solve them. All liberals want to do is take take and take. I'm convinced we will have a war in this country. Then whatever is left will hopefully build it back like it is supposed to be.

 

[Moonglow]

He'll never answer.

Then miketx and Pogo
how DO we present these issues
where people WILL present better solutions?

How would YOU ask and answer
so we still get ideas or directions
toward more effective solutions
that make sense to all sides?

Thanks!

You wont solve them. All liberals want to do is take take and take. I'm convinced we will have a war in this country. Then whatever is left will hopefully build it back like it is supposed to be.

I've never taken anything I didn't earn so stop that nonsense.

 

[occupied]

No mystery, you just are not interested in any answer that a liberal might give you. You already have it all figured out.