Town halls gone wild

[Vast LWC]

Now, that we're done with that tangent... Back to the subject.

Here's the main issue with these TownHall disruptions:

The clear end result of this behavior is that TownHall events will cease to exist.

TownHall meetings are an excellent forum, where regular people actually get to talk face to face with their representatives.

The idea of the TownHall was championed by people like John McCain, who, for all his faults, sometimes knows a great idea when he sees one.

But they will cease to exist if this continues.

Here's the progression:

1. Mobs organized by right-wing extremist groups and private health care interests interrupt and disrupt TownHall meetings across America.

2. Democratic extremist interest groups realize the other side is trying to drown out left-wing voices, so they send mobs of their own to combat these groups.

3. Local constituents are unable to ask questions of their representatives and become discouraged, especially as these confrontations escalate to violence.

4. TownHall meetings become useless exercises, as their intended purpose is not being realized and violent encounters keep getting sparked.

This is in the best interest of extremists and corporate entities, as TownHall meetings serve to inform the public and representatives alike, which runs counter to the multi-million dollar ad campaigns that they run to send the public THEIR message.

The people who will most benefit from this will be News media, because the more information sources that are closed off (other than them of course), the more powerful they become.

So, I hope you all are proud of yourselves. If you succeed in shutting down TownHall meetings, you're helping to hand our country over to the extremists and corporate interests.

Thanks so much, the rest of America will really appreciate the end result, I'm sure.

 

[Coyote]

Now, that we're done with that tangent... Back to the subject.

Here's the main issue with these TownHall disruptions:

The clear end result of this behavior is that TownHall events will cease to exist.

TownHall meetings are an excellent forum, where regular people actually get to talk face to face with their representatives.

The idea of the TownHall was championed by people like John McCain, who, for all his faults, sometimes knows a great idea when he sees one.

But they will cease to exist if this continues.

Here's the progression:

1. Mobs organized by right-wing extremist groups and private health care interests interrupt and disrupt TownHall meetings across America.

2. Democratic extremist interest groups realize the other side is trying to drown out left-wing voices, so they send mobs of their own to combat these groups.

3. Local constituents are unable to ask questions of their representatives and become discouraged, especially as these confrontations escalate to violence.

4. TownHall meetings become useless exercises, as their intended purpose is not being realized and violent encounters keep getting sparked.

This is in the best interest of extremists and corporate entities, as TownHall meetings serve to inform the public and representatives alike, which runs counter to the multi-million dollar ad campaigns that they run to send the public THEIR message.

The people who will most benefit from this will be News media, because the more information sources that are closed off (other than them of course), the more powerful they become.

So, I hope you all are proud of yourselves. If you succeed in shutting down TownHall meetings, you're helping to hand our country over to the extremists and corporate interests.

Thanks so much, the rest of America will really appreciate the end result, I'm sure.

Exactly - well said! People are trying to turn it into something partisan but it's not - and encouraging/excusing this type of behavior, regardless of who is doing it, is going to destroy the whole concept. A bit like throwing out the baby with the bath water.

 

[dilloduck]

Now, that we're done with that tangent... Back to the subject.

Here's the main issue with these TownHall disruptions:

The clear end result of this behavior is that TownHall events will cease to exist.

TownHall meetings are an excellent forum, where regular people actually get to talk face to face with their representatives.

The idea of the TownHall was championed by people like John McCain, who, for all his faults, sometimes knows a great idea when he sees one.

But they will cease to exist if this continues.

Here's the progression:

1. Mobs organized by right-wing extremist groups and private health care interests interrupt and disrupt TownHall meetings across America.

2. Democratic extremist interest groups realize the other side is trying to drown out left-wing voices, so they send mobs of their own to combat these groups.

3. Local constituents are unable to ask questions of their representatives and become discouraged, especially as these confrontations escalate to violence.

4. TownHall meetings become useless exercises, as their intended purpose is not being realized and violent encounters keep getting sparked.

This is in the best interest of extremists and corporate entities, as TownHall meetings serve to inform the public and representatives alike, which runs counter to the multi-million dollar ad campaigns that they run to send the public THEIR message.

The people who will most benefit from this will be News media, because the more information sources that are closed off (other than them of course), the more powerful they become.

So, I hope you all are proud of yourselves. If you succeed in shutting down TownHall meetings, you're helping to hand our country over to the extremists and corporate interests.

Thanks so much, the rest of America will really appreciate the end result, I'm sure.

Exactly - well said! People are trying to turn it into something partisan but it's not - and encouraging/excusing this type of behavior, regardless of who is doing it, is going to destroy the whole concept. A bit like throwing out the baby with the bath water.

Which is the whole point-----partisans from both sides are heavily invested in ANY from of unstructered (censored) debate. Partisanship is the enemy. Not the method.

 

[Liability]

everything he reported about it was 100% accurate

Actually, no, it wasn't.

There was a badly worded Terms of Service agreement that made it seem like that was the case, but there was never an ability for the Government to "take over your computer" through the cars.com site.

Here is an better explanation from a techie website:

Cars.gov Terms of Service: What Glenn Beck Gets Right and Wrong
Commentary by Hugh D'Andrade
There's an entertaining clip from Glenn Beck's Fox News program making the rounds on the Internet lately, featuring this language from the Terms of Service for the "Cash for Clunkers" program:

This application provides access to the [Department of Transportation] DoT CARS system. When logged on to the CARS system, your computer is considered a Federal computer system and is the property of the U.S. Government. Any or all uses of this system and all files on this system may be intercepted, monitored, recorded, copied, audited, inspected, and disclosed... to authorized CARS, DoT, and law enforcement personnel, as well as authorized officials of other agencies, both domestic and foreign.

While this language was accessible only by registered dealers, and not the public (and has apparently now been removed), it nevertheless is a shocking example of the kind of problems that can come with click-through agreements written by faceless lawyers and basically imposed on the rest of us. No one should ever try to force you to "agree" that accessing a government website turns your computer into a government computer or gives up your privacy rights in the other contents of your computer.

This hopefully careless language demonstrates the concerns that EFF has long raised about the creeping reduction in user privacy and rights online that we see through various means, including terms of service, cookies and even the “phone home” nature of some of our devices like the Amazon Kindle. This sort of contracting away of our privacy and rights is bad enough when companies do it — it should be off limits for government.

Unfortunately, the commentary of Fox anchor Kimberly Guilfoyle was also wrong about the scope of the privacy issues:

They are jumping right inside you, seizing all of your personal and private information, and absolutely legal, Glenn, they can do it... They can continue to track you, basically forever, once they've tapped into your system, the government of course has, like, malware systems, and tracking cookies, and they can tap in any time they want.

Clicking "continue" on a poorly worded Terms of Service on a government site will not give the government the ability to "tap into your system... any time they want." The seizure of the personal and private information stored on your computer through a one-sided click-through terms of service is not “conscionable” as lawyers say, and would not be enforceable even if the cars.gov website was capable of doing it, which we seriously doubt. Moreover, the law has long forbidden the government from requiring you to give up unrelated constitutional rights (here the 4th Amendment right to be free from search and seizure) as a condition of receiving discretionary government benefits like participation in the Cars for Clunkers program.

The problems with overreaching terms of service are real, and EFF has been working hard to combat them, especially when your privacy is at stake. Companies and government departments repeatedly sow the seeds of confusion, concern and outrage when they sneak catch-all terms into the small print. Our ToSBack site tracks these agreements and allows the public to find out what they say and track their changes over time. But terms of service agreements don’t go as far as allowing the government ongoing, free range into your personal computer with a single mouse click. At least not yet.

I myself am a network engineer, and I could explain to you in-depth why the above is true, but it would take way too long, and frankly is not worth it for me to win an argument on a posting board.

Rubbish. They drafted the language not because they had no ability to take over the subject computer "system," which of course they do have, but because they wanted the legal language to protect them after the fact had they chosen to do so.

If you are actually a network engineer than you OUGHT to know that there are a whole ARRAY of techniques whereby they could, indeed, implant whatver damn malware. spyware or anyother damn thing they wanted -- likely without the recipient ever knowing that they had done so. This is one of the reasons so many people invest money in anti-spyware and anti-malware applications and firewalls and similar system security. And NONE of it is actually impervious to "attack."

 

[Vast LWC]

If you are actually a network engineer than you OUGHT to know that there are a whole ARRAY of techniques whereby they could, indeed, implant whatver damn malware. spyware or anyother damn thing they wanted

They could, and so could you or I for that matter, but Mr Beck and his friend said they DID. There's a difference there.

In addition, this agreement was supposed to only be sent to the dealers, not the individuals. (as seen here)

While this language was accessible only by registered dealers, and not the public

It would be necessary to have all the data from the dealers, just in case someone was trying to commit fraud.

Of course Glenn and friend neglected to say that they had signed on as dealers, they just said they were "using someone else's computer".

 

[Vast LWC]

partisans from both sides are heavily invested in ANY from of unstructered (censored) debate.

What? I'm honestly didn't really get this.

Are you saying Town Halls are censored?

Isn't that the whole point of a town hall to have random constituents ask questions? Otherwise it wouldn't be a Town Hall...

And if you watch the video tapes, you will notice that when the original questions were asked, before the shouting began, they seemed to be pretty uncensored.

And partisan groups are specifically against this format, as they would rather disseminate information to the public themselves.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

BOTH sides have those who would quash transparency and debate rather than have their propaganda exposed for what it is. Or do you forget the former Administration's stonewalling already? It's a universal mark of the extremist regardless of ideology. So therefore I say, pot...meet kettle.

Nope... Not true...

You're confusing Party with ideology. That there exist fascists in the Republican party does nothing to indict the Americans in the GOP.

There is nothing extreme about defending one's rights... PERIOD. The ideological left is about USURPING RIGHTS... not defending them.

You have NO RIGHT to the product of another's labor... PERIOD. And that one principle is the full measure of the ideological left. The Left stands FOR everything America stands against... and contesting their tyranny is the sacred duty of every free sovereign; American or not.

This has absolutely nothing to do with the post to which you replied. What is your point?

The point is simply that the ideological right is not guilty of exhibiting LEFTIST traits...

IF Americans were prone to violent suppression of political opposition, there would be no trace of the ideological left IN THE US...

 

[goldcatt]

Nope... Not true...

You're confusing Party with ideology. That there exist fascists in the Republican party does nothing to indict the Americans in the GOP.

There is nothing extreme about defending one's rights... PERIOD. The ideological left is about USURPING RIGHTS... not defending them.

You have NO RIGHT to the product of another's labor... PERIOD. And that one principle is the full measure of the ideological left. The Left stands FOR everything America stands against... and contesting their tyranny is the sacred duty of every free sovereign; American or not.

This has absolutely nothing to do with the post to which you replied. What is your point?

The point is simply that the ideological right is not guilty of exhibiting LEFTIST traits...

IF Americans were prone to violent suppression of political opposition, there would be no trace of the ideological left IN THE US...

Wow, what did somebody slip in your tea?
Relax, take a deep breath, and try to remember the difference between party afilliation, ideology, and what is actually being discussed here which is tactics. Let me know when (if) you get it straight, 'k?

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

Of course beck never said that the government could control any computers through the site... he said the 'badly worded Terms of Service... OKA: THE CONTRACT

You're right, his co-host said the government is, and he agreed:

(she) says: "...Jumping inside and seizing all of your personal and private information, and it's absolutely legal Glenn."

At which point Glenn agreed:

"Yeah, and not just that, but in a million years I would not click continue..."

The other person continues:

"because, guess what, once they've tapped into your system, the government will continue to track you, through malware programs and tracking cookies"

SHe then switches to an extremely sarcastic tone of voice, putting her finger beside her nose and says "look I'm not suggesting that the government would engage in any kind of "nefarious acitivites"", clearly implying that they obviously are.

To which Glenn sarcastically replies "No, NEVER!"

Here's the video:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWs12ccbOiE"]Glenn Beck on YouTube[/ame]

Man, YouTube rocks.

ROFLMNAO...

Again, NO WHERE in the referenced piece does Beck or anyone else claim that the relevant website was going to be used to control someones computer...

The FACT was merely being NOTED by Beck and his staff, that the 'poorly worded User Agreement,' as you rationalized it, provided that the US government had unfettered access to the dealers database... which is an absurd violation of the US Constitution, wherein the dealer was being required to forfeit their rights in order to comply with US Government program.

Now it is a FACT, of the incontrovertible variety that the Hussein regime crafted an agreement which required participants to surrender their Constitutionally protected rights to the US Government, in order to participate in that program.

It is a fact that Beck accurately reported the above fact...

It is also a fact that you want to rationalize that such was an error; that the Hussein regime had no intentions of grabbing unprecedented Federal power over the free market... sadly, you do so with no evidence beyond your personal assurances or the assurances of this subversive regime; all of which is of no discernible value to anyone.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

Nope... Not true...

You're confusing Party with ideology. That there exist fascists in the Republican party does nothing to indict the Americans in the GOP.

There is nothing extreme about defending one's rights... PERIOD. The ideological left is about USURPING RIGHTS... not defending them.

You have NO RIGHT to the product of another's labor... PERIOD. And that one principle is the full measure of the ideological left. The Left stands FOR everything America stands against... and contesting their tyranny is the sacred duty of every free sovereign; American or not.

This has absolutely nothing to do with the post to which you replied. What is your point?

PI has no point, like mt everest, he's simply there.

Now Del... you damn well know that my point is to expose Leftists as fools; to berate, belittle and humiliate them for their addle-minded, anti-American nonsense... along with the Centirst Comrades as well, such as yourself... and this genius new-b'.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

Now, that we're done with that tangent... Back to the subject.

Here's the main issue with these TownHall disruptions:

The clear end result of this behavior is that TownHall events will cease to exist.

Yet another 'Unintended consequence' of allowing Leftist to find power.

And what will THAT produce? That will produce a further disconnect from that power... and in what will THAT result? Further expansion of power by the idiot Left... which will merely increase the level of disconcent exponentially... Until... it explodes... as all Leftist controlled cultures must; with detonation being realized by the left itself as the promises of cradle to grave entitlements collapse under the dead weight of a Leftist controlled economy; at which time IT IS ON! And at which time the Ideological Left is relegated to an unflattering history...

Nothing new here... it's all farily basic stuff... Power rejects those who advanced it and it destroys itself. Any child whose parents read them Easop's Fables could tell you anything ya need to know about it.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

Now, that we're done with that tangent... Back to the subject.

Here's the main issue with these TownHall disruptions:

The clear end result of this behavior is that TownHall events will cease to exist.

TownHall meetings are an excellent forum, where regular people actually get to talk face to face with their representatives.

The idea of the TownHall was championed by people like John McCain, who, for all his faults, sometimes knows a great idea when he sees one.

But they will cease to exist if this continues.

Here's the progression:

1. Mobs organized by right-wing extremist groups and private health care interests interrupt and disrupt TownHall meetings across America.

2. Democratic extremist interest groups realize the other side is trying to drown out left-wing voices, so they send mobs of their own to combat these groups.

3. Local constituents are unable to ask questions of their representatives and become discouraged, especially as these confrontations escalate to violence.

4. TownHall meetings become useless exercises, as their intended purpose is not being realized and violent encounters keep getting sparked.

This is in the best interest of extremists and corporate entities, as TownHall meetings serve to inform the public and representatives alike, which runs counter to the multi-million dollar ad campaigns that they run to send the public THEIR message.

The people who will most benefit from this will be News media, because the more information sources that are closed off (other than them of course), the more powerful they become.

So, I hope you all are proud of yourselves. If you succeed in shutting down TownHall meetings, you're helping to hand our country over to the extremists and corporate interests.

Thanks so much, the rest of America will really appreciate the end result, I'm sure.

Exactly - well said! People are trying to turn it into something partisan but it's not - and encouraging/excusing this type of behavior, regardless of who is doing it, is going to destroy the whole concept. A bit like throwing out the baby with the bath water.

Which is the whole point-----partisans from both sides are heavily invested in ANY from of unstructered (censored) debate. Partisanship is the enemy. Not the method.

lol.. Come ON! Partisanship is a function of ideology... Now that would require that IDEOLOGY be the root problem...

Thus the solution would be what? Surrender one's ideology?

No Sir... Not hardly... That is the natural function of war friends... It serves to determine what ideology will set the rules.

This nation is on the fast track to a civil war and that war will be where the American idealogues are defending the principles of viable, sustaining LIBERTY; a freedom which rests upon the divine endowment of Life by nature's God, which stems our individual UNALIENABLE RIGHTS; each of which come with the SACRED RESPONSIBILITY to defend them from those who would usurp those rights... and "THOSE" in this case are the Ideological Leftists, who believe to their empty Core's that they are RIGHTFULLY ENTITLED TO USURP THE RIGHTS OF THE INDIVIDUAL TO MEET THE MYTHICAL NEEDS OF THE ETHEREAL "COLLECTIVE"...

The problem rests directly upon the Ideological Left... as it always does; and without exception.

 

[Vast LWC]

Yet another 'Unintended consequence' of allowing Leftist to find power.

ROFL. Now that's funny.

That's like blaming the victim when they get mugged.

"He was asking for it."

Wow, that's some serious rationalization.

But seriously, just because the opposition party took power, and are doing EXACTLY WHAT THEY SAID THEY WERE GOING TO DO when the majority of Americans voted for them, you now think it's OK to use strong-arm tactics instead of letting democracy run it's course, eh?

Guess we all know where the right stands when it comes to party vs. country, now don't we?

This nation is on the fast track to a civil war and that war will be where the American idealogues are defending the principles of viable

Yep, we definitely know how much the right hates democracy, when things aren't going their way.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

This has absolutely nothing to do with the post to which you replied. What is your point?

The point is simply that the ideological right is not guilty of exhibiting LEFTIST traits...

IF Americans were prone to violent suppression of political opposition, there would be no trace of the ideological left IN THE US...

Wow, what did somebody slip in your tea?
Relax, take a deep breath, and try to remember the difference between party afilliation, ideology, and what is actually being discussed here which is tactics. Let me know when (if) you get it straight, 'k?

Hey friend, The "tactics" to which you refer are those common to the Ideological Left; which is the ideology that are presently entrenched within the US Democrat Party... with subversive elements throughout the GOP; subversives known as "Moderates."

These tactics are not new, they're not unique and they aren't unexpected. They're tactics common to all Leftist governments; they're common to all corrupt governance; thus they're common to 'Chicago' Politics;' a political machine which is controlled by the aforementioned Democrat Party... and they're tactics which are designed to intimidate and control... And where those who are subjected to them are subject to being cowed... they're quite effective.

Now despite your flaccid projection to the contrary, I am perfectly relaxed; and I am perfectly at ease with the ridiculous future you idiots are driving us towards; and I am well trained as well as prepared for, comfortable with the uneviable task which will be required of myself and every other American, when you idiots inevitably find your Ft. Sumter and kick off the looming civil war; you're going to find that we, your opposition are Americans, Sis; and that we're not subject to intimidation...

And that when that day comes, you're gonna be needing somethign a tad more tangible than fallacious argument, inane quip, or a snappy slogan to survive... with absolutely no CHANCE of prevailing.

Feel better?

 

[goldcatt]

The point is simply that the ideological right is not guilty of exhibiting LEFTIST traits...

IF Americans were prone to violent suppression of political opposition, there would be no trace of the ideological left IN THE US...

Wow, what did somebody slip in your tea?
Relax, take a deep breath, and try to remember the difference between party afilliation, ideology, and what is actually being discussed here which is tactics. Let me know when (if) you get it straight, 'k?

Hey friend, The "tactics" to which you refer are those common to the Ideological Left; which is the ideology that are presently entrenched within the US Democrat Party... with subversive elements throughout the GOP; subversives known as "Moderates."

These tactics are not new, they're not unique and they aren't unexpected. They're tactics common to all Leftist governments; they're common to all corrupt governance; thus they're common to 'Chicago' Politics;' a political machine which is controlled by the aforementioned Democrat Party... and they're tactics which are designed to intimidate and control... And where those who are subjected to them are subject to being cowed... they're quite effective.

Now despite your flaccid projection to the contrary, I am perfectly relaxed; and I am perfectly at ease with the ridiculous future you idiots are driving us towards; and I am well trained as well as prepared for, comfortable with the uneviable task which will be required of myself and every other American, when you idiots inevitably find your Ft. Sumter and kick off the looming civil war; you're going to find that we, your opposition are Americans, Sis; and that we're not subject to intimidation...

And that when that day comes, you're gonna be needing somethign a tad more tangible than fallacious argument, inane quip of snappy slogan to survive... with abosolutely no CHANCE of prevailing.

Feel better?

Much. Thank you.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

Yet another 'Unintended consequence' of allowing Leftist to find power.

ROFL. Now that's funny.

That's like blaming the victim when they get mugged.

No... Its just holding the Mugger accountable and not letting her flip the responsibility onto her victim and claim that she was defending herself when the Muggee started kicking her ass...

Winning an election does not provide one with the right to usurp the rights of others.

But hey... don't sweat it; the White House is doubling down with its promise to return the discontent with twice the force... so everything is working tiself out nicely... Nature has a cure for these kind of things and we have the right people in the White House and Congress to help nature se the US on the cure.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

Wow, what did somebody slip in your tea?
Relax, take a deep breath, and try to remember the difference between party afilliation, ideology, and what is actually being discussed here which is tactics. Let me know when (if) you get it straight, 'k?

Hey friend, The "tactics" to which you refer are those common to the Ideological Left; which is the ideology that are presently entrenched within the US Democrat Party... with subversive elements throughout the GOP; subversives known as "Moderates."

These tactics are not new, they're not unique and they aren't unexpected. They're tactics common to all Leftist governments; they're common to all corrupt governance; thus they're common to 'Chicago' Politics;' a political machine which is controlled by the aforementioned Democrat Party... and they're tactics which are designed to intimidate and control... And where those who are subjected to them are subject to being cowed... they're quite effective.

Now despite your flaccid projection to the contrary, I am perfectly relaxed; and I am perfectly at ease with the ridiculous future you idiots are driving us towards; and I am well trained as well as prepared for, comfortable with the uneviable task which will be required of myself and every other American, when you idiots inevitably find your Ft. Sumter and kick off the looming civil war; you're going to find that we, your opposition are Americans, Sis; and that we're not subject to intimidation...

And that when that day comes, you're gonna be needing somethign a tad more tangible than fallacious argument, inane quips, or snappy slogans to survive... with absolutely no CHANCE of prevailing.

Feel better?

Much. Thank you.

Super... and you're welcome.

 

[PI2]

Now despite your flaccid projection to the contrary, I am perfectly relaxed; and I am perfectly at ease with the ridiculous future you idiots are driving us towards; and I am well trained as well as prepared for, comfortable with the uneviable task which will be required of myself and every other American, when you idiots inevitably find your Ft. Sumter and kick off the looming civil war; you're going to find that we, your opposition are Americans, Sis; and that we're not subject to intimidation...

And that when that day comes, you're gonna be needing somethign a tad more tangible than fallacious argument, inane quip, or a snappy slogan to survive... with absolutely no CHANCE of prevailing.

Feel better?

If you're not already on the watch list you soon will be.

 

[DiveCon]

Now despite your flaccid projection to the contrary, I am perfectly relaxed; and I am perfectly at ease with the ridiculous future you idiots are driving us towards; and I am well trained as well as prepared for, comfortable with the uneviable task which will be required of myself and every other American, when you idiots inevitably find your Ft. Sumter and kick off the looming civil war; you're going to find that we, your opposition are Americans, Sis; and that we're not subject to intimidation...

And that when that day comes, you're gonna be needing somethign a tad more tangible than fallacious argument, inane quip, or a snappy slogan to survive... with absolutely no CHANCE of prevailing.

Feel better?

If you're not already on the watch list you soon will be.

why dont you report him, if you really feel that way
Obama even made it easy for you

[email protected]

 

[Darkwind]

Now despite your flaccid projection to the contrary, I am perfectly relaxed; and I am perfectly at ease with the ridiculous future you idiots are driving us towards; and I am well trained as well as prepared for, comfortable with the uneviable task which will be required of myself and every other American, when you idiots inevitably find your Ft. Sumter and kick off the looming civil war; you're going to find that we, your opposition are Americans, Sis; and that we're not subject to intimidation...

And that when that day comes, you're gonna be needing somethign a tad more tangible than fallacious argument, inane quip, or a snappy slogan to survive... with absolutely no CHANCE of prevailing.

Feel better?

If you're not already on the watch list you soon will be.

why dont you report him, if you really feel that way
Obama even made it easy for you

[email protected]

Hey Dive. I can't get a single lib to report Me.....Can you do it?