Town halls gone wild

[Vast LWC]

Here are some links to back up my assertion about blue dog democrats:

The Center for Public Integrity | Latest from the Center - Blue Dogs Fill Their Bowls with Cash

washingtonpost.com

(The Post is a bit biased to the left, so I added the link for the Center for Public Integrity, which is non-partisan)

 

[Newby]

That is exactly what they are trying to do. People might know this if they had heard from their congressmen.

You know, in like a "Town Hall" format or something like that.

No, it is not what they are doing. You may convince the little lemmings out there, but you're falling flat with those who are paying attention. Why do you defend the lies is the better question?

And why don't they just vote it in if they know what's best for everyone? If it's only a small minority that is opposed to it, why don't they just vote it in?

You are making unsupported accusations, just like the right-wing media has been doing.

If you accuse someone of lying, you must back it up with proof. So, what "lies" am I defending, and what is your proof that they are in fact "lies".

Again, simply stating an opposite opinion, or quoting someone else's opinion does not prove something to be a "lie".

And I never said anything about a "small" minority, Republicans were a minority in the recent elections, but by no means a "small" minority, which is why they still retain 40 seats in the Senate.

Plus all the "Blue Dog" democrats have been bought by the private health care industry.

The 'Blue Dogs' are 'bought' by private health care??? More unsubstantiated statements out of thin air.

So, now the blue dogs are a party of 'no' as well? I love it.

 

[Newby]

Here are some links to back up my assertion about blue dog democrats:

The Center for Public Integrity | Latest from the Center - Blue Dogs Fill Their Bowls with Cash

washingtonpost.com

(The Post is a bit biased to the left, so I added the link for the Center for Public Integrity, which is non-partisan)

Yeah, that really proved that they're being 'bought' by the insurance companies. Their receipts are up 9% from four years ago, supposedly by the energy sector, the financial sector and the insurance sector. Yet they don't tell you how much of the increase is definitely from these three entities, nor do they break down how much is coming from each one. I wish you guys would make up your minds, I've been told that the insurance companies are all on board with Obama's plan. Which is it?

 

[nodoginnafight]

I think it is all to easy to say someone who disagrees with your position has been "bought" or is a lemming, or an Obamabot, or a Nazi, ....

It's much easier than looking at what they are proposing and offering critiques, improvements and/or alternatives.

I'm not a Republican or a Democrat - I've probably voted for more Republicans in my life than Democrats but right now, I think my views line up more closely with Blue Dogs than with any other factions - but I still have areas of disagreement even with them.

 

[Political Junky]

No, it is not what they are doing. You may convince the little lemmings out there, but you're falling flat with those who are paying attention. Why do you defend the lies is the better question?

And why don't they just vote it in if they know what's best for everyone? If it's only a small minority that is opposed to it, why don't they just vote it in?

You are making unsupported accusations, just like the right-wing media has been doing.

If you accuse someone of lying, you must back it up with proof. So, what "lies" am I defending, and what is your proof that they are in fact "lies".

Again, simply stating an opposite opinion, or quoting someone else's opinion does not prove something to be a "lie".

And I never said anything about a "small" minority, Republicans were a minority in the recent elections, but by no means a "small" minority, which is why they still retain 40 seats in the Senate.

Plus all the "Blue Dog" democrats have been bought by the private health care industry.

The 'Blue Dogs' are 'bought' by private health care??? More unsubstantiated statements out of thin air.

So, now the blue dogs are a party of 'no' as well? I love it.

Yes, Max Baucus got more than any other Democrat from the healthcare industry.

 

[EriktheRed]

You are making unsupported accusations, just like the right-wing media has been doing.

If you accuse someone of lying, you must back it up with proof. So, what "lies" am I defending, and what is your proof that they are in fact "lies".

Again, simply stating an opposite opinion, or quoting someone else's opinion does not prove something to be a "lie".

And I never said anything about a "small" minority, Republicans were a minority in the recent elections, but by no means a "small" minority, which is why they still retain 40 seats in the Senate.

Plus all the "Blue Dog" democrats have been bought by the private health care industry.

The 'Blue Dogs' are 'bought' by private health care??? More unsubstantiated statements out of thin air.

So, now the blue dogs are a party of 'no' as well? I love it.

Yes, Max Baucus got more than any other Democrat from the healthcare industry.

Ben Nelson of NE got a shitload from them, too.

 

[drsmith1072]

Really? Who's siding with the government and who's not??? Yet b/c people are protesting the socialist health care bill they're 'Nazi brownshirts'. Gotta love it...

LOL In post #270 I spell out post by post a perfect example of Newby's dishonesty and yet look at how he avoided the post in attempt to avoid admitting that he was busted for being dishonest.

Thanks for showing that you have zero integrity newby.

 

[drsmith1072]

That's your opinion. I've seen the videos and what you are labeling it is incorrect, but that's the left's basic MO, isn't it? You can try to keep labeling thus it all you want, most are not buying it and see things for what they really are.

Who sent 1500 people? Where? How was it paid for?

LOL wow you morons just don't get it do you?

You claim he presented his opinion and then you try to counter his argument by presenting your opinion. LOL

 

[drsmith1072]

Oh, and hi DR Smith, long time no see.

Hello, sorry took so long to come back. Had some things to do this weekend and they kept me busy.

 

[drsmith1072]

Did you all know that our Universities are chock full of brownshirts? After all, if the working definition of brownshirted tactics is that they shout down speakers, why that happens on a regular basis in our institutes of higher education.

Organized leftist groups often arrive (and these are actual members of the groups not just ordinary citizens voicing their displeasure) at many functions with the explicit purpose of silencing the event because they disagree with the political positions of the speakers.

That's why the hypocrisy demonstrated here by the little lefties is beyond amusing.

LOL. What about the hypocrisy of the right who once condemned such tactics and labeled all who disagreed with bush and the rest of the republicans as traitors, un-American, unpatriotic surrender monkeys??
How is it that now that the right is engaging in orchestrated disruption of town hall meetings that you are now praising it and embracing what you were once against?

 

[drsmith1072]

WOW, is this really the best you've got??

He advertised for weeks that he was going to be at the event, bring an entertainer and then the event itself altered their schedule to accomodate hannity's program and you are still trying to claim that foxnews, who hannity works for, didn't sponsor/promote the teaparty??

Sorry but the facts show otherwise.

So I guess that means if you go to a political rally/demonstration/etc., your employer is sponsoring/promoting said event, just because you work for him/her?
Very interesting concept. Strange but interesting.

Are you really this stupid?? Hannity took his FONXEWS program to a tea party, broadcasted his FOXNEWS program from the event LIVE on the FOXNEWS channel, advertised it for weeks ahead of time and brought an entertainer to perform AT the event. Don't you think the network would have to approve of this move?? Or do you believe that hannity is a maverick and can do whatever he wants to do?

no, you are the stupid one
it was a NEWS event
so the NEWS covered it

WOW you really are retarded aren't you? They didn't merely COVER the event they became PART of the event. The event actually adjusted their schedule to suit hannity's program and hannity brought an entertainer to help draw in more of a crowd with a free performance.
I seriously don't know how it can be spelled out any better so that you can understand.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Are you really this stupid?? Hannity took his FONXEWS program to a tea party, broadcasted his FOXNEWS program from the event LIVE on the FOXNEWS channel, advertised it for weeks ahead of time and brought an entertainer to perform AT the event. Don't you think the network would have to approve of this move?? Or do you believe that hannity is a maverick and can do whatever he wants to do?

no, you are the stupid one
it was a NEWS event
so the NEWS covered it

WOW you really are retarded aren't you? They didn't merely COVER the event they became PART of the event. The event actually adjusted their schedule to suit hannity's program and hannity brought an entertainer to help draw in more of a crowd with a free performance.
I seriously don't know how it can be spelled out any better so that you can understand.

You're talking about one event out of how many tea parties?

 

[DiveCon]

Are you really this stupid?? Hannity took his FONXEWS program to a tea party, broadcasted his FOXNEWS program from the event LIVE on the FOXNEWS channel, advertised it for weeks ahead of time and brought an entertainer to perform AT the event. Don't you think the network would have to approve of this move?? Or do you believe that hannity is a maverick and can do whatever he wants to do?

no, you are the stupid one
it was a NEWS event
so the NEWS covered it

WOW you really are retarded aren't you? They didn't merely COVER the event they became PART of the event. The event actually adjusted their schedule to suit hannity's program and hannity brought an entertainer to help draw in more of a crowd with a free performance.
I seriously don't know how it can be spelled out any better so that you can understand.

that doesnt mean shit
you are a fucking moron

 

[drsmith1072]

All of that is really nice, but it still is JUST your opinion and a dishonest one at that.

Really, please point out exactly where I have been "dishonest"?



Are people not in fact mobbing political events and shouting down their political opponents?

Funny, cause I just watched a video tape of the event in Tampa, and it sure looked like there were 1500 people trying to push their way in.

Also, I watched several video tapes of other events and I could have sworn I saw a whole bunch of people chanting at the top of their lungs to stop other people from aasking questions.

Would you like links to these videos? I can provide them, but I'm sure you can easily find them on google.



Hmm, so policians going to a site where people ask them questions and they answer is a propaganda event?

That sure would be a surprise to John McCain, and several other Republicans that have been touting them for years.

Perhaps you need to look up the definition of "propaganda" and it's modern uses in society.

they expected a bunch of mindless idiots kissing their feet and thanking them for the take over of their medical care.

Strange then that the initial invitations were so open that plenty of people opposed to the bill seemed to get in in the first place then, isn't it?

After all, if they were controlling who was there, how would these people have been there in the first place to do the heckling?

We can go back and forth all day. As I said, what you think about the protests is irrelevant. I don't care if they're organized, I don't care if they're shouting to get their voices heard. You can try to demonize it all you like, it's just not going to work. There are too many people that have wizened up to what is going on, and they're not buying what you're trying to sell.

Keep putting people down for trying to voice their opinions, keep putting people down for using their free speech rights, it makes your side look more and more like what you actually are and have been for a long time.

Leftists critisizing and demonizing the American tradition of protest and dissent. You gotta love the irony.

I have only been on this board a short while and this type of avoidance seems to be the typical response from most of the righties when they are asked to PROVE something. Newby accused LWC of being dishonest and then when asked to prove it he avoids doing so. LOL

 

[drsmith1072]

The problem occurred when they tried to stop other people from asking their questions.

Agree 100%.

Shouting down anyone who has a different opinion is not exercising freedom of speech - it is an attempt to stifle freedom of speech.
Watch the people who do this very carefully -

You should also watch the people that purposely twist and misrepresent the facts in order to support their sick ideology as well.


Sounds like the definition of a brown shirt, doesn't it?

So are you asking to be watched? because that fits you perfectly.

Let's see, you accuse people of being dishonest and then can't prove your accusation and you have tried to dishonestly atrtibute something that i never said to me so you could attack me for it.
It sure sounds like you "purposely twist and misrepresent the facts in order to support <your> sick ideology" LOL

 

[Vast LWC]

Yeah, that really proved that they're being 'bought' by the insurance companies. Their receipts are up 9% from four years ago, supposedly by the energy sector, the financial sector and the insurance sector. Yet they don't tell you how much of the increase is definitely from these three entities, nor do they break down how much is coming from each one. I wish you guys would make up your minds, I've been told that the insurance companies are all on board with Obama's plan. Which is it?

First of all, I said the articles "backed up" my assertions, not "proved" my assertion.

Second of all, they were paid large sums of money by the insurance companies, much more than other Democrats in fact, and now they are doing exactly what the insurance companies want them to do.

While that's not infallible proof that they have been "bought", it's certainly a strong indicator that they have.

Thus my claim is in fact partially substantiated. They took the money and are now doing their bidding.

Even if the evidence is circumstantial, it is evidence.

 

[DiveCon]

Yeah, that really proved that they're being 'bought' by the insurance companies.

First of all, I said the articles "backed up" my assertions, not "proved" my assertion.

Second of all, they were paid large sums of money by the insurance companies, much more than other Democrats in fact, and now they are doing exactly what the insurance companies want them to do.

While that's not infallible proof that they have been "bought", it's certainly a strong indicator that they have.

Thus my claim is in fact partially substantiated. They took the money and are now doing their bidding.

Even if the evidence is circumstantial, it is evidence.

have you ever donated money to a politician or a cause?

 

[Annie]

Yeah, that really proved that they're being 'bought' by the insurance companies.

First of all, I said the articles "backed up" my assertions, not "proved" my assertion.

Second of all, they were paid large sums of money by the insurance companies, much more than other Democrats in fact, and now they are doing exactly what the insurance companies want them to do.

While that's not infallible proof that they have been "bought", it's certainly a strong indicator that they have.

Thus my claim is in fact partially substantiated. They took the money and are now doing their bidding.

Even if the evidence is circumstantial, it is evidence.

have you ever donated money to a politician or a cause?

I posted this on another thread, this seems more appropriate:

Interesting the accusations on astroturfing by the right. I've said repeatedly that the left owns it, but here's one example:

Health Care for America NOW!

We are closer to passing health care reform than we've ever been in the history of this country, and the opposition knows it. The small, lobbyist-funded right-wing is trying to scare Members of Congress and the American public away from supporting health care reform. We can't let fear win - America has been at the mercy of the insurance industry from too long. We need health care reform now, and we can't wait any longer.

You can help fight back against these right-wing disrupters. Follow the steps below to attend events in your area and get trained on how to deal with disruptions, intimidation, and name-calling at the events.

With a little energy, planning, and knowledge, we can fight back against the right-wing and win health care for all!



STEP 1: ATTEND AN EVENT IN YOUR AREA


Click here to see a list of all August events


STEP 2: TRAIN YOURSELF TO COMBAT RIGHT-WING TACTICS

Since early February, we’ve seen increasing numbers of militant right-wing activists attending public meetings across the country targeting Members of Congress and President Obama. Now in the August recess, the “tea-bagger” protesters and right-wing activists are showing up in larger numbers with a mission to be as disruptive as possible in the hopes of rattling Members of Congress and halting health care reform through pure spectacle and obstruction.

Our response is shaped by 3 things:

Our targets are Members of Congress who must vote “yes” for this bill. Our targets are not the right-wing extremists. The targets of these attacks are Members of Congress. Those Members are also our targets. We need to use these attacks as opportunities to work with the Members in ways that build our relationship in the field and bring us together as allies in health care reform. Members may be more receptive to partnering with us if they know we will help them combat the opposition.

Our core message is effective, and we should always come back to it. Our campaign plan has always anticipated opposition. No matter what the right-wingers bring up to distract the debate, we should always circle back to our key message. We are on the side of quality, affordable health care for everyone, and we are against turning over health care reform to the insurance companies and lobbyists who got us into this mess to begin with. We need to educate the press and the public that the protesters are aligned with the corporate lobbyists and insurance companies who are trying to stop reform.

Our ability to put the extremists into perspective helps us frame our narrative. We should be prepared to respond to the other side, but we don’t need to be reactive or feel pressure to answer their accusations point by point. Instead, we should treat them as agents of the insurance lobbyists who want to maintain the status quo. We can dismiss their radical rhetoric by circling back to the basic things that we know most people care about—affordability, access, and quality.

In many cases, protestors will show up at events or meetings you don’t organize but are participating in as an attendee or sponsor. You can still influence the outcome of these events or meetings, and it’s important for HCAN organizers and leaders to be ready to encounter these protesters in order to make sure that our volunteers and activists respond appropriately as well as capitalize on opportunities to also move our message, work with Members, and educate the public.

Who are these people?

The people who show up are far right-wing ideologues recruited by paid organizers. ed. note no proof of such, just a blanket statement that demonizes all who are 'protesting' against. Much of this recruitment and organizing is funded by industry lobbyists and public relations firms to engage radical right-wing groups. Many of these groups are motivated by far right ideology in general - not by health care as an issue. They are held together by a common vision of the world that centers on defeating Obama and his agenda. ed. again no proof, but again calling anyone who disagrees racists. Notice no mention of the fact that Hillary care failed for the same reasons? We can expect to see anti-abortion groups, pro-gun groups, insurance company employees (mandated by employers to come out), militia groups, and anti-immigration groups.

What are their goals in turning out disruptive mobs?

Their goal is to stop Obama, influence the media, and scare Members of Congress into thinking that there is more resistance to health care reform than really exists. The attendees are not reflective of the middle or average Republican Party member. Insurance industry lobbyists and public relations firms recruit mostly right-wing extremists who are willing to employ militant tactics in order to demonize Obama by tapping into fear and anger in the electorate. The fear comes from both aggressive communications tactics and rhetoric: anti-tax, anti-abortion, anti-immigration, and other themes that resonate with the farthest right wing of their party.

What is the strategy of the lobbyists and right-wingers who are orchestrating these protests?

The most important thing to remember about this type of mobilization is that it is foremost a media strategy, not an organizing strategy. These angry mobs are not trying to persuade Members of Congress or the folks who are attending the event about their point of view. Their goal is to disrupt the event as much as possible in order to:

Prevent our message from getting out.
Scare Members of Congress into silence and submission.
Paint a picture for the media that conveys widespread disapproval for health care reform in order to influence the narrative.

Create as much tension as possible at these events so that the average spectator is completely turned off and disengages totally from this issue.
What can we expect them to do?

They will be loud: They will “Yell, stand up and shout out, and rattle” the Members of Congress. They will be disruptive and not follow the agenda. They won’t wait for an opening to speak. They will just interrupt and shout from the minute the event opens until it ends.

They will paint a picture: They will carry a lot of signs. They will have gimmicks and props to get attention from the MOCs and from the media.

They will look bigger than they are: They will spread out and distribute their signs widely. They will also get in front of any TV camera or press people in order to make sure the story that is reported is their story.

They will seek confrontation: The right-wing protesters will foster confrontation at every turn because that’s what draws media and distracts the public. They will use any means to do this including abusive language, arrests, props, and physical violence. Be prepared.
How should we prepare to encounter the right wing protesters at MOC events?

Contact friendly MOCs and let them know you are coming to make sure our side is heard and that the event is positive. Provide constructive support for Members of Congress who are holding public events to promote health care reform by turning out constituents and anticipating problems ahead of time. Ask the Member’s staff what would be most helpful and talk through a strategy for making sure the right messages don’t get drowned out by chaotic protesters.

Inoculate your staff and your volunteersnote, 'your staff' implies paid, reinforced with volunteers. by telling them what to expect and what purpose lies behind the right-wing demonstrations. The more that the attendees know what to expect; the less startled they will be by the irrational tone and militancy of the protesters.

Bring more people than the other side has. Their side will be smaller but noisier. You must bring enough people to drown them out and to cover all our bases so as to marginalize their disruptive tactics. You don’t want to get into a screaming match, but it must be obvious to everyone—including press—that you represent the majority.ed. in spite of all polls showing the opposite.

Arrive earlier than the other side does. We need to stack our folks in the front to create a wall around the Member, and we need to stake out the best spots for visibility and signs. Reconnaissance on the venue and an understanding of the staging will be important here. Make sure you do your homework so you can position your folks most effectively.What astroturfing is all about.

Be more visible than the other side. Bring more signs and leaflets, and whenever possible, post your signs all over the place so that you visually out-perform the other side. Make sure you have people holding signs in every place where a TV camera is likely to be and that next to every right wing sign, there’s one of your signs with your message.

Have a real plan for the media. Remember, this is a communications strategy that the right wing is using and our goal is to stop them from hijacking and changing the message and tone of these events. Assign 3-5 people to speak with the reporters who attend and make sure the reporters understand the scope and message of the event. If you let the media just report on what they see, they will invariably focus on the mayhem. That is a far juicer story than affordability and the public health insurance option. Don’t wait for the reporter to approach you. You must approach the reporters and be assertive in shaping the narrative that they write. Have someone assigned to greeting the media or checking in media as they arrive. That way you will know who they are and be able to work with them both during the event and afterwards. Also, plan to record both the events you attend and the events you organize. TV stations will use amateur footage to round out their stories, and the other side is recording and posting video online. We need to be able to give the press video of successful events too.

How should we interact/what do we say to the other side?

Do not debate on their “policy” points. Remember, they are seeking a platform to distort the truth about reform by making health care about abortion, rationing, euthanasia, etc. Rather than try to reply with the truth (which won’t move them anyway) we should respond with our message and at every turn re-focus the agenda on communicating with the Member of Congress.

Interrupt them when they get disruptive and refocus the meeting: Line up a number of people who feel comfortable interrupting and prepare them with statements like:

Excuse me, I came today to listen to Representative XXX explain how this bill is going to make health care more affordable for me and my family. We’re being gouged by insurance companies that just want to make more profits while we struggle to keep up with premiums and co-pays. Representative, how are you going to fix that?”
“I’m retired and can’t afford my prescription drugs because I’m on a fixed income. Representative, how is this bill going to affect me?”​

“I want to hear the Representative speak. He’s the one voting on the bill. Representative, how will this bill help people who already have insurance at work?”​

“What I’m worried about is how we’re going to keep the insurance companies from continuing to charge people more for being sick and keep them from taking away coverage when we need it most. What’s the plan for that?”​

Don’t get into a shouting match with them. Instead, prep people on our side to keep raising the questions that we want answered. Repetition is the key. We need to arm our side with questions that play to the strength of our message and make sure we keep bringing them up over and over so that the press recognizes those central themes. We should also phrase those questions strategically to help move the message.

“Over the last XX years, insurance company profits have risen XXX %; in this bill you would regulate insurance companies so that they can no longer deny people with pre-existing conditions and would have to play by fair rules. Isn’t that right, Representative XX?”

“Isn’t it true that this bill would guarantee everyone a choice of public health insurance option that will lower cost overall in the system?”

Address the MOC directly with a positive message: Remember, these Members need cover and they are getting beaten up by right wing zealots in these meetings. We want to let the Member know that we appreciate his efforts to hear constituents and that we, the majority, agree with him.

We should demonstrate that we are the majority by chanting: When the other side gets too loud, we should shut them down with chants that counter their message like “Health Care Can’t Wait!” and “Health Care Delayed is Health Care Denied” and prep people to chant at key points when the other side gets most disruptive.

Follow up with the Member one-on-one: This experience may have been trying for your MOC. Make sure that you thank him and that you let him know that the majority is with him. He needs to know that we will provide cover and support him at every turn for his leadership on this issue.

Organizing your own events with a Member of Congress

One advantage to organizing your own Town Hall or public event with Members of Congress is that you will have much more control over the event and limit the other side’s opportunities for disruption. Still, you should take precautions to make sure that you can keep meetings you organize under control. Here are some basic tips:

Talk to the Member of Congress ahead of time so that you agree on a format that is comfortable for the Member and that you can troubleshoot roles or concerns that the Member may have about the event. It is important to know how much time the Member will have, when he will arrive, what staff he’s bringing, and how many questions he’ll answer so that you can anticipate any issues that may arise and can plan your program appropriately.

Know who you are turning out to attend the event. Make sure you turn out a substantial number of people from your base and that everyone signs a sign in sheet upon entering the event. Give everyone name tags so they are easily identifiable. If you want to ensure greater control over turnout, you can ask attendees to rsvp or even issue tickets to the event and require presentation of the ticket at the entrance.

Choose a venue that is difficult for the opposition to access without being noticed. Get to your location early and make sure you set up the venue in a way that ensures that the attendees you want are at the front and that any protesters who come are sequestered as far as possible from the stage. Make sure that you have signs and visuals up and that you adequately understand the layout of your venue so that you know where the entrances are, where the press will be positioned, where your speakers will be, etc.

Select a strong moderator to move the agenda in a disciplined way. Make sure you select someone who is comfortable interrupting rowdy protesters, who can command the attention of the room, and who understands how to de-escalate tensions and re-direct people to the agenda.

Lay out goals for the meeting and establish ground rules for conduct in the meeting at the beginning of the event. Among these ground rules should be a protocol for asking questions. One way to do this is to ask people to submit questions ahead of time on cards, to permit only one question at a time, and to limit the topic of questions.

Plan for disturbances and assign marshals. Make sure that you assign marshals to take care of moving the crowd, keeping people organized and orderly, and acting as security should any need arise to ask noisy or disruptive protesters to leave. If you have cause to think that you will need more back-up, notify the police ahead of time.

Collect signs and leaflets that are not provided by you or your organization. Another way to limit protesters’ ability to hijack your event is to confiscate signs or leaflets that they may bring into the venue from outside. The best way to do this is to make a blanket rule that no one can bring signs or leaflets and to advertise this fact as you do turn out in the weeks preceding the event. You can distribute your own signs in the event and offer them one as they enter if you choose to allow them to enter.

Assign people to greet the media and to stay close to reporters both as they enter and leave the event. It’s important that you take away right-wingers opportunities to talk with reporters by making sure that your staff or leaders are in constant contact with the media who attend. You should set up a special table or area for the press to sit during the event and that area should be close t the stage and away from any areas of the venue where protesters may gather. Also make sure you have materials ready for the reporters so that they know the purpose and message of the event.

 

[Vast LWC]

Yeah, that really proved that they're being 'bought' by the insurance companies.

First of all, I said the articles "backed up" my assertions, not "proved" my assertion.

Second of all, they were paid large sums of money by the insurance companies, much more than other Democrats in fact, and now they are doing exactly what the insurance companies want them to do.

While that's not infallible proof that they have been "bought", it's certainly a strong indicator that they have.

Thus my claim is in fact partially substantiated. They took the money and are now doing their bidding.

Even if the evidence is circumstantial, it is evidence.

have you ever donated money to a politician or a cause?

Yes, I have. My point was not that the congressmen in question received money, but that they received substantially more than their counterparts from particular sources.

 

[Vast LWC]

First of all, I said the articles "backed up" my assertions, not "proved" my assertion.

Second of all, they were paid large sums of money by the insurance companies, much more than other Democrats in fact, and now they are doing exactly what the insurance companies want them to do.

While that's not infallible proof that they have been "bought", it's certainly a strong indicator that they have.

Thus my claim is in fact partially substantiated. They took the money and are now doing their bidding.

Even if the evidence is circumstantial, it is evidence.

have you ever donated money to a politician or a cause?

I posted this on another thread, this seems more appropriate:

Interesting the accusations on astroturfing by the right. I've said repeatedly that the left owns it, but here's one example:

Health Care for America NOW!

You'll forgive me if I don't post the text from the link in my quote, is it's quite long.

It's true, the Dems are now astroturfing right back, after being mobbed by the Con astroturfers.

And it will all escalate now until Town Hall meetings go the way of the DoDo. It's a shame really.