Toyota, Yamaha working on hydrogen-burning V8 engine

[fncceo]

That seems to be the biggest downside to hydrogen engines. How do you safely fuel and store the explosive hydrogen.

Storing it isn't a particular problem. Large quantities of Hydrogen (including Liquid Hydrogen) are already stored all over the world. Stored by safe, sober, professionals.

The problem is not storage but the brain-dead, most likely drunk, Big Gulp swilling moron pumping the Hydrogen into his vehicle.

That being said, it doesn't seem to be a problem with LPG or even gasoline so maybe I'm just being alarmist.

But, if I have learned anything, I've learned never to underestimate the amount of stupid that members of the public are capable.

 

[occupied]

By volume? Don't make me laugh! Volume is relative to pressure, so effectively meaningless. Weight is the constant by which any metric must be measured here because weight directly relates to QUANTITY of matter carried, thus load, not the STATE of that matter.

You must have learned physics off the back of a box of Corn Pops.

Would you want to ride around all day with a tank of 5000 PSI cryogenic hydrogen in your car? Not me. Hydrogen can only be safely transported as a pressurized gas. This makes it impossible to practically match the energy of gasoline by volume.

 

[occupied]

By weight/mass, hydrogen is actually very good as far as energy density. That's a major reason why it was used as fuel for the Saturn V rockets that carried our men to the Moon.

By volume, it's very poor, and it is very difficult to safely store very much hydrogen, especially on the scale of a vehicle. The Saturn V rockets used in it liquid form; to put it in that form required cooling it to an extremely-low temperature, and it had to be pumped into the rocket just before launch, and once fueled, the rocket had to be launched almost immediately. Those of us old enough to remember can remember the paradoxical images of the rocket taking off on a pillar of fire, with ice falling off of it.

Pretty much what I was trying to tell the other guy.

 

[fncceo]

ydrogen can only be safely transported as a pressurized gas

Just like LPG and Propane ... and somehow ... we seem to get along just fine.

 

[occupied]

Just like LPG and Propane ... and somehow ... we seem to get along just fine.

View attachment 605696

Propane is a liquefied gas that can be contained by a reasonably cheap tank at ambient temperature. Liquid hydrogen has to be cooled to cryogenic temps just to remain liquid at pressures that are frighteningly high.

 

[toobfreak]

Would you want to ride around all day with a tank of 5000 PSI cryogenic hydrogen in your car? Not me. Hydrogen can only be safely transported as a pressurized gas. This makes it impossible to practically match the energy of gasoline by volume.

It is being done. Becides, you already probably sit next to a pressurized propane tank all summer long at your grill, nor do you seem to mind sitting on a fleet of power-packed lithium batteries waiting to ignite or a 30 gallon tank of explosive gasoline that just needs a spark to set it off, so . . .

 

[occupied]

It is being done. Becides, you already probably sit next to a pressurized propane tank all summer long at your grill, nor do you seem to mind sitting on a fleet of power-packed lithium batteries waiting to ignite or a 30 gallon tank of explosive gasoline that just needs a spark to set it off, so . . .

No it isn't. Even if hydrogen vehicles become a thing they will not be running on liquid hydrogen. It's insane how hazardous that stuff is. They will need a fairly sizable tank to match the range of even an electric vehicle. Hydrogen looks like a dream fuel until you actually look at using it, then it's a nightmare.

 

[toobfreak]

No it isn't. Even if hydrogen vehicles become a thing they will not be running on liquid hydrogen. It's insane how hazardous that stuff is. They will need a fairly sizable tank to match the range of even an electric vehicle. Hydrogen looks like a dream fuel until you actually look at using it, then it's a nightmare.

Guess that's why you are not an engineer at Cummins, Toyota or Yamaha. They think they CAN do it, and they are out to solve the technical hurdles.

I'd much sooner deal with refilling a tank of hydrogen to cut emissions than have to plug in and wait around charging 1200 pounds of lithium batteries that must be replaced every so often and whose manufacture pollutes the planet. Not to mention needing trillions in investment in our electric grid that can be taken down with a single EMP.

 

[occupied]

Guess that's why you are not an engineer at Cummins, Toyota or Yamaha. They think they CAN do it, and they are out to solve the technical hurdles.

I'd much sooner deal with refilling a tank of hydrogen to cut emissions than have to plug in and wait around charging 1200 pounds of lithium batteries that must be replaced every so often and whose manufacture pollutes the planet. Not to mention needing trillions in investment in our electric grid that can be taken down with a single EMP.

To each his own. They are not going to make a safe way to use liquid hydrogen as a motor fuel. There isn't one. That means giant tank or short range.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I'd much sooner deal with refilling a tank of hydrogen to cut emissions

How does hydrogen cut emissions?

 

[toobfreak]

To each his own. They are not going to make a safe way to use liquid hydrogen as a motor fuel. There isn't one. That means giant tank or short range.

If we were to build one right now using current technology. Where is all that zeal to R&D like you want to for electric cars?

 

[occupied]

If we were to build one right now using current technology. Where is all that zeal to R&D like you want to for electric cars?

You are not going to change the physical properties of hydrogen. Hydrogen engines would be great for electrical generation or any other stationary application. Form follows function. As soon as you start talking about transportation the volume of gas involved to give a vehicle comparable range makes for a ridiculously large storage tank. It's not that people dislike hydrogen it's just that it's a pain to deal with as a serviceable commodity.

 

[toobfreak]

You are not going to change the physical properties of hydrogen. Hydrogen engines would be great for electrical generation or any other stationary application. Form follows function. As soon as you start talking about transportation the volume of gas involved to give a vehicle comparable range makes for a ridiculously large storage tank. It's not that people dislike hydrogen it's just that it's a pain to deal with as a serviceable commodity.

Tell it to these three companies. Ain't that the beauty of new technology? Making shit work when everyone tells you it can't be done.

 

[Devils_Advocate]

Like 10,000 years ago when we went extinct for using up all the rocks and bear skins?

Nah, today human is dumber than dirt…

 

[fncceo]

Nah, today human is dumber than dirt…

Some of the are, yes.

 

[Devils_Advocate]

Some of the are, yes.

Most are, and the rest might not want to breed because of the fear they would have another seven billion of dumb shits…

 

[evenflow1969]

And Cummins says:

"Vehicles with hydrogen internal combustion engines can operate without any CO2 emissions coming from the hydrogen fuel, direct or indirect. Additionally, hydrogen fuels do not release any particulate matter, carbon monoxide, or volatile organic compounds. In the United States, converting medium and heavy-duty trucks to clean hydrogen would eliminate about a quarter of all greenhouse gas emissions from the transportation sector."

Well there you have it. That just flushed the entire argument for full head-on mad committal to EV technology moot.

Lol, I don't care hydrogen or electric as long as economic and works.