True Interpretation of the 2nd Amendment

[danielpalos]

where are you from? you seem to be clueless and Causeless as to our federal form of Government.

Back to that standard canard that serves you so well.

You don't have a single, solitary statute, case or even another liberal to rely on. That would make YOU clueless.

You have never shown anyone on this board (or any other where I've encountered you) that you have something resembling a cause... which makes YOU causeless as you call it.

Stop projecting. It's only adding to the destruction of any credibility you thought you had.

dear, natural and individual rights are in State Constitutions.

Our Second Amendment has terms that are plural, not singular.

That is where you sound either gay or a woman. Men do not address other men as "dear." So, champ, back to the standard canard.

FEDERAL LAW SAYS THAT STATES DO NOT GRANT RIGHTS. You are now arguing with the states regarding that issue. But, since you want to go to the states, let's do that and let's get the state supreme courts to give you a lesson (for at least the third time on this thread alone):

"The right of the people to bear arms shall not be infringed." The right of the whole people, old and young, men, women and boys, and not militia only, to keep and bear arms of every description, not such merely as are used by the militia, shall not be infringed, curtailed, or broken in upon, in the smallest degree..."

Nunn v. Georgia - Wikipedia

"The right of a citizen to bear arms, in lawful defense of himself or the State, is absolute. He does not derive it from the State government. It is one of the "high powers" delegated directly to the citizen, and is excepted out of the general powers of government.' A law cannot be passed to infringe upon or impair it, because it is above the law, and independent of the lawmaking power."

Cockrum v State 24 Tex. 394, at 401-402 (1859)

The states say your are full of shit. You've discounted the Constitution. You've shown you're no Perry Mason. Singular, plural... the states have said that the Right does not come from the state. The states say the Right is an individual Right and you do not have to be in a militia in order to own a firearm. That still squares with the rulings of the United States Supreme Court.

How much longer do you want to be like a rodent on a treadmill?

natural rights are in State Constitutions, not our federal Constitution. why appeal to ignorance?

We are not appealing to ignorance, you are. You claimed that the NY state constitution is the law of the land. It is not. It is the law of NY, subject to the US Constitution.

It is the law of the land of the State of New York. We have a Tenth Amendment. The legislature is Obligated to ensure a well regulated militia of the People.

 

[danielpalos]

collective requires plural. Only the right wing, never gets it.

I get that you are claiming the "people" is always plural and therefore collective. That is wrong.

look in Any dictionary.

The word is always plural. It is not always collective.

should we rely on the context of the first clause?

should we rely on the context of the first clause?

only idiots would only read half of an amendment, and base their arguments on that

projecting much?

this is what we are quibbling:

The word is always plural. It is not always collective.

 

[Auld Phart]

Back to that standard canard that serves you so well.

You don't have a single, solitary statute, case or even another liberal to rely on. That would make YOU clueless.

You have never shown anyone on this board (or any other where I've encountered you) that you have something resembling a cause... which makes YOU causeless as you call it.

Stop projecting. It's only adding to the destruction of any credibility you thought you had.

dear, natural and individual rights are in State Constitutions.

Our Second Amendment has terms that are plural, not singular.

That is where you sound either gay or a woman. Men do not address other men as "dear." So, champ, back to the standard canard.

FEDERAL LAW SAYS THAT STATES DO NOT GRANT RIGHTS. You are now arguing with the states regarding that issue. But, since you want to go to the states, let's do that and let's get the state supreme courts to give you a lesson (for at least the third time on this thread alone):

"The right of the people to bear arms shall not be infringed." The right of the whole people, old and young, men, women and boys, and not militia only, to keep and bear arms of every description, not such merely as are used by the militia, shall not be infringed, curtailed, or broken in upon, in the smallest degree..."

Nunn v. Georgia - Wikipedia

"The right of a citizen to bear arms, in lawful defense of himself or the State, is absolute. He does not derive it from the State government. It is one of the "high powers" delegated directly to the citizen, and is excepted out of the general powers of government.' A law cannot be passed to infringe upon or impair it, because it is above the law, and independent of the lawmaking power."

Cockrum v State 24 Tex. 394, at 401-402 (1859)

The states say your are full of shit. You've discounted the Constitution. You've shown you're no Perry Mason. Singular, plural... the states have said that the Right does not come from the state. The states say the Right is an individual Right and you do not have to be in a militia in order to own a firearm. That still squares with the rulings of the United States Supreme Court.

How much longer do you want to be like a rodent on a treadmill?

natural rights are in State Constitutions, not our federal Constitution. why appeal to ignorance?

We are not appealing to ignorance, you are. You claimed that the NY state constitution is the law of the land. It is not. It is the law of NY, subject to the US Constitution.

It is the law of the land of the State of New York. We have a Tenth Amendment. The legislature is Obligated to ensure a well regulated militia of the People.

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people."

The right of the people to keep and bear arms IS delegated by the Second Amendment

 

[Auld Phart]

I get that you are claiming the "people" is always plural and therefore collective. That is wrong.

look in Any dictionary.

The word is always plural. It is not always collective.

should we rely on the context of the first clause?

should we rely on the context of the first clause?

only idiots would only read half of an amendment, and base their arguments on that

projecting much?

this is what we are quibbling:

The word is always plural. It is not always collective.

no
you're spitting out birdseed and cracker crumbs


the rest of us are debating

 

[WinterBorn]

And your dictionary shows that the word "people" is plural. Your imagination shows the word "people" to mean collective.

collective requires plural. Only the right wing, never gets it.

I get that you are claiming the "people" is always plural and therefore collective. That is wrong.

look in Any dictionary.

The word is always plural. It is not always collective.

should we rely on the context of the first clause?

The important part is in the second clause. And it does not leave room for quibbling.

 

[WinterBorn]

The militia was able bodied males, between the ages of 16-45.

until you can disprove that, WITH A LINK, you're talking out your ass.

The defense and protection of the state and of the United States is an obligation of all persons within the state. The legislature shall provide for the discharge of this obligation and for the maintenance and regulation of an organized militia.

You're still talking out your ass.

show me a link describing the actual makeup of a militia in that era.

Projecting much, right wingers? Only the clueless and the Causeless have to make excuses and appeal to ignorance.

This is Article Twelve of the New York State Constitution:

The defense and protection of the state and of the United States is an obligation of all persons within the state. The legislature shall provide for the discharge of this obligation and for the maintenance and regulation of an organized militia.

Then that passage only applies to persons in New York.

And if New York wrote something in their constitution that defied or went against the US Constitution, it was be unlawful and be removed.

That is the common law as debated at the Convention when debating Ratification of our Constitution.

I am sure there were several changes made during the process. But what was ratified is what counts. And the US Constitution is the law of the land.

 

[WinterBorn]

Back to that standard canard that serves you so well.

You don't have a single, solitary statute, case or even another liberal to rely on. That would make YOU clueless.

You have never shown anyone on this board (or any other where I've encountered you) that you have something resembling a cause... which makes YOU causeless as you call it.

Stop projecting. It's only adding to the destruction of any credibility you thought you had.

dear, natural and individual rights are in State Constitutions.

Our Second Amendment has terms that are plural, not singular.

That is where you sound either gay or a woman. Men do not address other men as "dear." So, champ, back to the standard canard.

FEDERAL LAW SAYS THAT STATES DO NOT GRANT RIGHTS. You are now arguing with the states regarding that issue. But, since you want to go to the states, let's do that and let's get the state supreme courts to give you a lesson (for at least the third time on this thread alone):

"The right of the people to bear arms shall not be infringed." The right of the whole people, old and young, men, women and boys, and not militia only, to keep and bear arms of every description, not such merely as are used by the militia, shall not be infringed, curtailed, or broken in upon, in the smallest degree..."

Nunn v. Georgia - Wikipedia

"The right of a citizen to bear arms, in lawful defense of himself or the State, is absolute. He does not derive it from the State government. It is one of the "high powers" delegated directly to the citizen, and is excepted out of the general powers of government.' A law cannot be passed to infringe upon or impair it, because it is above the law, and independent of the lawmaking power."

Cockrum v State 24 Tex. 394, at 401-402 (1859)

The states say your are full of shit. You've discounted the Constitution. You've shown you're no Perry Mason. Singular, plural... the states have said that the Right does not come from the state. The states say the Right is an individual Right and you do not have to be in a militia in order to own a firearm. That still squares with the rulings of the United States Supreme Court.

How much longer do you want to be like a rodent on a treadmill?

natural rights are in State Constitutions, not our federal Constitution. why appeal to ignorance?

We are not appealing to ignorance, you are. You claimed that the NY state constitution is the law of the land. It is not. It is the law of NY, subject to the US Constitution.

It is the law of the land of the State of New York. We have a Tenth Amendment. The legislature is Obligated to ensure a well regulated militia of the People.

The 10th amendment simply says "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people". Except the right to keep and bear arms are specified in the 2nd amendment. So that power is not left to the states.

 

[WinterBorn]

I get that you are claiming the "people" is always plural and therefore collective. That is wrong.

look in Any dictionary.

The word is always plural. It is not always collective.

should we rely on the context of the first clause?

should we rely on the context of the first clause?

only idiots would only read half of an amendment, and base their arguments on that

projecting much?

this is what we are quibbling:

The word is always plural. It is not always collective.

And on what do you base your insistence that the word is collective in the 2nd amendment?

 

[danielpalos]

dear, natural and individual rights are in State Constitutions.

Our Second Amendment has terms that are plural, not singular.

That is where you sound either gay or a woman. Men do not address other men as "dear." So, champ, back to the standard canard.

FEDERAL LAW SAYS THAT STATES DO NOT GRANT RIGHTS. You are now arguing with the states regarding that issue. But, since you want to go to the states, let's do that and let's get the state supreme courts to give you a lesson (for at least the third time on this thread alone):

"The right of the people to bear arms shall not be infringed." The right of the whole people, old and young, men, women and boys, and not militia only, to keep and bear arms of every description, not such merely as are used by the militia, shall not be infringed, curtailed, or broken in upon, in the smallest degree..."

Nunn v. Georgia - Wikipedia

"The right of a citizen to bear arms, in lawful defense of himself or the State, is absolute. He does not derive it from the State government. It is one of the "high powers" delegated directly to the citizen, and is excepted out of the general powers of government.' A law cannot be passed to infringe upon or impair it, because it is above the law, and independent of the lawmaking power."

Cockrum v State 24 Tex. 394, at 401-402 (1859)

The states say your are full of shit. You've discounted the Constitution. You've shown you're no Perry Mason. Singular, plural... the states have said that the Right does not come from the state. The states say the Right is an individual Right and you do not have to be in a militia in order to own a firearm. That still squares with the rulings of the United States Supreme Court.

How much longer do you want to be like a rodent on a treadmill?

natural rights are in State Constitutions, not our federal Constitution. why appeal to ignorance?

We are not appealing to ignorance, you are. You claimed that the NY state constitution is the law of the land. It is not. It is the law of NY, subject to the US Constitution.

It is the law of the land of the State of New York. We have a Tenth Amendment. The legislature is Obligated to ensure a well regulated militia of the People.

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people."

The right of the people to keep and bear arms IS delegated by the Second Amendment

This is a States' sovereign right, secured by our Second Amendment:

The defense and protection of the state and of the United States is an obligation of all persons within the state. The legislature shall provide for the discharge of this obligation and for the maintenance and regulation of an organized militia.

 

[danielpalos]

collective requires plural. Only the right wing, never gets it.

I get that you are claiming the "people" is always plural and therefore collective. That is wrong.

look in Any dictionary.

The word is always plural. It is not always collective.

should we rely on the context of the first clause?

The important part is in the second clause. And it does not leave room for quibbling.

Yes, it does. The People and Militia are plural; you have to make up a story about it being singular. I believe a dictionary more than the right wing.

 

[danielpalos]

The defense and protection of the state and of the United States is an obligation of all persons within the state. The legislature shall provide for the discharge of this obligation and for the maintenance and regulation of an organized militia.

You're still talking out your ass.

show me a link describing the actual makeup of a militia in that era.

Projecting much, right wingers? Only the clueless and the Causeless have to make excuses and appeal to ignorance.

This is Article Twelve of the New York State Constitution:

The defense and protection of the state and of the United States is an obligation of all persons within the state. The legislature shall provide for the discharge of this obligation and for the maintenance and regulation of an organized militia.

Then that passage only applies to persons in New York.

And if New York wrote something in their constitution that defied or went against the US Constitution, it was be unlawful and be removed.

That is the common law as debated at the Convention when debating Ratification of our Constitution.

I am sure there were several changes made during the process. But what was ratified is what counts. And the US Constitution is the law of the land.

That understanding is in our Second Amendment regarding the People.

 

[danielpalos]

dear, natural and individual rights are in State Constitutions.

Our Second Amendment has terms that are plural, not singular.

That is where you sound either gay or a woman. Men do not address other men as "dear." So, champ, back to the standard canard.

FEDERAL LAW SAYS THAT STATES DO NOT GRANT RIGHTS. You are now arguing with the states regarding that issue. But, since you want to go to the states, let's do that and let's get the state supreme courts to give you a lesson (for at least the third time on this thread alone):

"The right of the people to bear arms shall not be infringed." The right of the whole people, old and young, men, women and boys, and not militia only, to keep and bear arms of every description, not such merely as are used by the militia, shall not be infringed, curtailed, or broken in upon, in the smallest degree..."

Nunn v. Georgia - Wikipedia

"The right of a citizen to bear arms, in lawful defense of himself or the State, is absolute. He does not derive it from the State government. It is one of the "high powers" delegated directly to the citizen, and is excepted out of the general powers of government.' A law cannot be passed to infringe upon or impair it, because it is above the law, and independent of the lawmaking power."

Cockrum v State 24 Tex. 394, at 401-402 (1859)

The states say your are full of shit. You've discounted the Constitution. You've shown you're no Perry Mason. Singular, plural... the states have said that the Right does not come from the state. The states say the Right is an individual Right and you do not have to be in a militia in order to own a firearm. That still squares with the rulings of the United States Supreme Court.

How much longer do you want to be like a rodent on a treadmill?

natural rights are in State Constitutions, not our federal Constitution. why appeal to ignorance?

We are not appealing to ignorance, you are. You claimed that the NY state constitution is the law of the land. It is not. It is the law of NY, subject to the US Constitution.

It is the law of the land of the State of New York. We have a Tenth Amendment. The legislature is Obligated to ensure a well regulated militia of the People.

The 10th amendment simply says "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people". Except the right to keep and bear arms are specified in the 2nd amendment. So that power is not left to the states.

This is a States' right, secured by both, our Second Amendment and our Tenth Amendment:

The defense and protection of the state and of the United States is an obligation of all persons within the state. The legislature shall provide for the discharge of this obligation and for the maintenance and regulation of an organized militia.

 

[Auld Phart]

That is where you sound either gay or a woman. Men do not address other men as "dear." So, champ, back to the standard canard.

FEDERAL LAW SAYS THAT STATES DO NOT GRANT RIGHTS. You are now arguing with the states regarding that issue. But, since you want to go to the states, let's do that and let's get the state supreme courts to give you a lesson (for at least the third time on this thread alone):

"The right of the people to bear arms shall not be infringed." The right of the whole people, old and young, men, women and boys, and not militia only, to keep and bear arms of every description, not such merely as are used by the militia, shall not be infringed, curtailed, or broken in upon, in the smallest degree..."

Nunn v. Georgia - Wikipedia

"The right of a citizen to bear arms, in lawful defense of himself or the State, is absolute. He does not derive it from the State government. It is one of the "high powers" delegated directly to the citizen, and is excepted out of the general powers of government.' A law cannot be passed to infringe upon or impair it, because it is above the law, and independent of the lawmaking power."

Cockrum v State 24 Tex. 394, at 401-402 (1859)

The states say your are full of shit. You've discounted the Constitution. You've shown you're no Perry Mason. Singular, plural... the states have said that the Right does not come from the state. The states say the Right is an individual Right and you do not have to be in a militia in order to own a firearm. That still squares with the rulings of the United States Supreme Court.

How much longer do you want to be like a rodent on a treadmill?

natural rights are in State Constitutions, not our federal Constitution. why appeal to ignorance?

We are not appealing to ignorance, you are. You claimed that the NY state constitution is the law of the land. It is not. It is the law of NY, subject to the US Constitution.

It is the law of the land of the State of New York. We have a Tenth Amendment. The legislature is Obligated to ensure a well regulated militia of the People.

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people."

The right of the people to keep and bear arms IS delegated by the Second Amendment

This is a States' sovereign right, secured by our Second Amendment:

The defense and protection of the state and of the United States is an obligation of all persons within the state. The legislature shall provide for the discharge of this obligation and for the maintenance and regulation of an organized militia.

 

[danielpalos]

look in Any dictionary.

The word is always plural. It is not always collective.

should we rely on the context of the first clause?

should we rely on the context of the first clause?

only idiots would only read half of an amendment, and base their arguments on that

projecting much?

this is what we are quibbling:

The word is always plural. It is not always collective.

And on what do you base your insistence that the word is collective in the 2nd amendment?

nobody takes the right wing seriously about Constitutional law. What do You believe we have been arguing for several pages now.

 

[danielpalos]

natural rights are in State Constitutions, not our federal Constitution. why appeal to ignorance?

We are not appealing to ignorance, you are. You claimed that the NY state constitution is the law of the land. It is not. It is the law of NY, subject to the US Constitution.

It is the law of the land of the State of New York. We have a Tenth Amendment. The legislature is Obligated to ensure a well regulated militia of the People.

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people."

The right of the people to keep and bear arms IS delegated by the Second Amendment

This is a States' sovereign right, secured by our Second Amendment:

The defense and protection of the state and of the United States is an obligation of all persons within the state. The legislature shall provide for the discharge of this obligation and for the maintenance and regulation of an organized militia.

nothing but fallacy instead of valid argument from the right wing, every time. birds of a feather?

 

[Auld Phart]

You're still talking out your ass.

show me a link describing the actual makeup of a militia in that era.

Projecting much, right wingers? Only the clueless and the Causeless have to make excuses and appeal to ignorance.

This is Article Twelve of the New York State Constitution:

The defense and protection of the state and of the United States is an obligation of all persons within the state. The legislature shall provide for the discharge of this obligation and for the maintenance and regulation of an organized militia.

Then that passage only applies to persons in New York.

And if New York wrote something in their constitution that defied or went against the US Constitution, it was be unlawful and be removed.

That is the common law as debated at the Convention when debating Ratification of our Constitution.

I am sure there were several changes made during the process. But what was ratified is what counts. And the US Constitution is the law of the land.

That understanding is in our Second Amendment regarding the People.

That understanding is in our Second Amendment regarding the People.

yes, it is....


"The right of the people to keep and bear arms"

 

[Auld Phart]

We are not appealing to ignorance, you are. You claimed that the NY state constitution is the law of the land. It is not. It is the law of NY, subject to the US Constitution.

It is the law of the land of the State of New York. We have a Tenth Amendment. The legislature is Obligated to ensure a well regulated militia of the People.

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people."

The right of the people to keep and bear arms IS delegated by the Second Amendment

This is a States' sovereign right, secured by our Second Amendment:

The defense and protection of the state and of the United States is an obligation of all persons within the state. The legislature shall provide for the discharge of this obligation and for the maintenance and regulation of an organized militia.

nothing but fallacy instead of valid argument from the right wing, every time. birds of a feather?

you're ignoring valid argument, and squawking like a parrot





that gif is what we're putting up with when you post.

 

[danielpalos]

Projecting much, right wingers? Only the clueless and the Causeless have to make excuses and appeal to ignorance.

This is Article Twelve of the New York State Constitution:

The defense and protection of the state and of the United States is an obligation of all persons within the state. The legislature shall provide for the discharge of this obligation and for the maintenance and regulation of an organized militia.

Then that passage only applies to persons in New York.

And if New York wrote something in their constitution that defied or went against the US Constitution, it was be unlawful and be removed.

That is the common law as debated at the Convention when debating Ratification of our Constitution.

I am sure there were several changes made during the process. But what was ratified is what counts. And the US Constitution is the law of the land.

That understanding is in our Second Amendment regarding the People.

That understanding is in our Second Amendment regarding the People.

yes, it is....


"The right of the people to keep and bear arms"

The Second Clause of our Second Amendment, is not a Constitution unto Itself.

 

[danielpalos]

It is the law of the land of the State of New York. We have a Tenth Amendment. The legislature is Obligated to ensure a well regulated militia of the People.

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people."

The right of the people to keep and bear arms IS delegated by the Second Amendment

This is a States' sovereign right, secured by our Second Amendment:

The defense and protection of the state and of the United States is an obligation of all persons within the state. The legislature shall provide for the discharge of this obligation and for the maintenance and regulation of an organized militia.

nothing but fallacy instead of valid argument from the right wing, every time. birds of a feather?

you're ignoring valid argument, and squawking like a parrot





that gif is what we're putting up with when you post.

Why are there some Persons being denied and disparaged in their allegedly federal, individual right, to keep and bear Arms. That issue should never come up.

 

[Auld Phart]

Then that passage only applies to persons in New York.

And if New York wrote something in their constitution that defied or went against the US Constitution, it was be unlawful and be removed.

That is the common law as debated at the Convention when debating Ratification of our Constitution.

I am sure there were several changes made during the process. But what was ratified is what counts. And the US Constitution is the law of the land.

That understanding is in our Second Amendment regarding the People.

That understanding is in our Second Amendment regarding the People.

yes, it is....


"The right of the people to keep and bear arms"

The Second Clause of our Second Amendment, is not a Constitution unto Itself.

The Second Clause of our Second Amendment, is not a Constitution unto Itself.

Neither is the first clause.


despite your claims the entire amendment is about the militia