True to form, Atheist hero says sexual abuse not as bad as religion.

[emilynghiem]

Dear KG: Each person has his or her own struggle with forgiveness.

I've read incredible stories where parents asked divine help to forgive someone they don't even know who murdered their child, and with God's grace were able to be free and healed.

And yet a close friend of mine I've known 20 years cannot forgive the idea in his mind that I gave the keys to his apt to someone else, which I did not. He cannot forgive this and holds this against me, and says I'm the one who destroyed the friendship. ???

Of course, this does NOT mean that losing keys is more traumatic than losing a child to murder!

If people can't forgive something, that will cause them torment, apart from whatever event occurred and degree of trauma. I've seen huge insufferable injustice forgiven, and little things that could be fixed unforgiven where relations were lost over them.

Typical. As I maintain...the progressive seeks to sexualize children, to de-criminalize sex with children, while at the same time, they seek to shut down and criminalize religion.

"

In remarks to Qatar-based TV network Al Jazeera, he said: ‘Horrible as sexual abuse no doubt was, the damage was arguably less than the long-term psychological damage inflicted by bringing the child up Catholic in the first place.’

Interviewer Mehdi Hasan asked: ‘You believe that being bought up as a Catholic is worse than being abused by a priest?’.

Professor Dawkins replied: ‘There are shades of being abused by a priest, and I quoted an example of a woman in America who wrote to me saying that when she was seven years old she was sexually abused by a priest in his car.

‘At the same time a friend of hers, also seven, who was of a Protestant family, died, and she was told that because her friend was Protestant she had gone to Hell and will be roasting in Hell forever.

‘She told me of those two abuses, she got over the physical abuse; it was yucky but she got over it.

‘But the mental abuse of being told about Hell, she took years to get over.’


Read more: Richard Dawkins: Forcing religion on your children is child abuse, claims atheist professor | Mail Online
​

BTW what Dawkins ought to focus scientific study on is the cycle of abuse caused by unforgiven conflicts or issues passed from one generation to the next.

Whether it's religious, sexual or drug abuse, the root cause is unforgiveness which causes the person to project the problem outside instead of solving it internally at the source.

And the key to healing and breaking any such cycle of abuse, sexual religious or both,
is to FORGIVE the past abuses so the mind and spirit can heal.

That is the key, forgiveness, regardless of the degree or size of the injustice.

Maybe I'll ask some of my nontheist scientist friends to try to contact him about doing more formal study on forgiveness and healing, independent of being religious or nonreligious.

 

[laughinReaper]

Typical. As I maintain...the progressive seeks to sexualize children, to de-criminalize sex with children, while at the same time, they seek to shut down and criminalize religion.

"

In remarks to Qatar-based TV network Al Jazeera, he said: ‘Horrible as sexual abuse no doubt was, the damage was arguably less than the long-term psychological damage inflicted by bringing the child up Catholic in the first place.’
Interviewer Mehdi Hasan asked: ‘You believe that being bought up as a Catholic is worse than being abused by a priest?’.
Professor Dawkins replied: ‘There are shades of being abused by a priest, and I quoted an example of a woman in America who wrote to me saying that when she was seven years old she was sexually abused by a priest in his car.

‘At the same time a friend of hers, also seven, who was of a Protestant family, died, and she was told that because her friend was Protestant she had gone to Hell and will be roasting in Hell forever.

‘She told me of those two abuses, she got over the physical abuse; it was yucky but she got over it.

‘But the mental abuse of being told about Hell, she took years to get over.’


Read more: Richard Dawkins: Forcing religion on your children is child abuse, claims atheist professor | Mail Online
​

I don't know how anyone could make a blanket statement like that. Which is worse is up to each individual victim. Some will agree and some won't depending on the level of abuse and if they had a negative expirence with the church aside from the sexual abuse. It's a perception thing.

And that is why he qualifies it by saying, "There are shades of being abused by a priest..".

"The former Oxford professor - who has been condemned as attention-seeking and unhelpful by critics - said last December that the mental torment inflicted by the religion’s teachings is worse in the long-term than any sexual abuse carried out by priests."

He didn't say can be, he said is. That's not for him to decide,it's for the victim to decide. A couple of my family members were victims of physical,sexual and verbal abuse by a family member. While not exactly the same I can tell you they thought the abuse at the hands of the family member was without a doubt, way worse than anything learned in church.

 

[numan]

'
WHICH IS WORSE : SEXUAL ABUSE OR RELIGION?

Well, it's hard to judge.

Sexual abuse is violence done to a child's body.

Religion is violence done to a child's mind and soul.
.

 

[koshergrl]

Oh I'm not making any statement about what the imaginary girl said. I believe a woman could say and even believe that she was more traumatized by being told by an abusive person in power that someone she loved was suffering in hell, than she would be traumatized by the sex abuse she suffered from the same person.

MY point is that the atheist whackadoodle is exploiting a girl who was abused sexually and apparently emotionally by a crazed priest, in order to prove his ridiculous point that Catholicism is more harmful than sex abuse.

I mean what sort of person would go there in the first place? What a puke.

 

[emilynghiem]

so you claim the woman was lying about which thing in her life was harder to live through?

No I am saying some who have also been through a similar experience will disagree with her. It's the type of thing that has to be case by case.

Also it isn't fair to compare the two processes of healing and recovery until they're both finished.

I went through relationship abuse that really FU me up, but finished with that process, because it had an end. That doesn't make it "easier" than lighter issues that drag out longer.

I'm currently trying to finish resolving ongoing issues of legal abuse in my neighborhood that are still not settled. And since the solutions to these issues tie in with related problems all around, the process of resolving them takes longer. Of course the process is harder when it involves multiple groups, with different conflicts of interest, instead of just 1-3 people.

So even though the earlier abuse and trauma I went through were worse, and included irreparable damage much harder to heal from in comparison, it's still taking more work, time and effort to recover from the legal abuses that involve govt and party politics.

With this woman, perhaps she has something similar where the isolated incident caused more damage and harm to her personally to deal with; but the issue of abuse of either religious or political authority is so prevalent and interconnected, it will take everyone addressing both church and state institutions, before it can be contained and resolved.
Maybe she continues to feel that on her conscience until all people have forgiven it, because she is feeling the pain of other people in her perception of it, not just her own pain.

 

[laughinReaper]

Typical. As I maintain...the progressive seeks to sexualize children, to de-criminalize sex with children, while at the same time, they seek to shut down and criminalize religion.

"

In remarks to Qatar-based TV network Al Jazeera, he said: ‘Horrible as sexual abuse no doubt was, the damage was arguably less than the long-term psychological damage inflicted by bringing the child up Catholic in the first place.’
Interviewer Mehdi Hasan asked: ‘You believe that being bought up as a Catholic is worse than being abused by a priest?’.
Professor Dawkins replied: ‘There are shades of being abused by a priest, and I quoted an example of a woman in America who wrote to me saying that when she was seven years old she was sexually abused by a priest in his car.

‘At the same time a friend of hers, also seven, who was of a Protestant family, died, and she was told that because her friend was Protestant she had gone to Hell and will be roasting in Hell forever.

‘She told me of those two abuses, she got over the physical abuse; it was yucky but she got over it.

‘But the mental abuse of being told about Hell, she took years to get over.’


Read more: Richard Dawkins: Forcing religion on your children is child abuse, claims atheist professor | Mail Online
​

Islamists love talking to people like Dawkins because it makes us Americans look like imbeciles and it makes Islam look good.

They probably point at the priest with the seven year old and say that's why Mohammad waited until Aisha was nine to have sex with her. That two years makes all the difference.

Both are sick fucks

 

[emilynghiem]

I don't know how anyone could make a blanket statement like that. Which is worse is up to each individual victim. Some will agree and some won't depending on the level of abuse and if they had a negative expirence with the church aside from the sexual abuse. It's a perception thing.

And that is why he qualifies it by saying, "There are shades of being abused by a priest..".

"The former Oxford professor - who has been condemned as attention-seeking and unhelpful by critics - said last December that the mental torment inflicted by the religion’s teachings is worse in the long-term than any sexual abuse carried out by priests."

He didn't say can be, he said is. That's not for him to decide,it's for the victim to decide. A couple of my family members were victims of physical,sexual and verbal abuse by a family member. While not exactly the same I can tell you they thought the abuse at the hands of the family member was without a doubt, way worse than anything learned in church.

I'll try one more time to understand this.

Is this like saying exposing kids to violence in the media on a continual basis is worse than actual kidnapping and robbing someone.
Because the act of kidnapping and robbing is finite, has an end, and someone
can eventually recover from that trauma with therapy.
But continuing to expose people to media violence inflicts ongoing harm that is
not being corrected prevented or addressed so it keeps happening.

is this close?

 

[emilynghiem]

catholic assistance to the needy in 3rd world countries would not be needed so much if they didnt teach the natives birth control is a sin .. the birth rate would be a lot less and the countries might have a chance to sustain itself . anyway with all that income exempt from taxes they need to do something to put back into the communities they steal from. selling even half of the riches held in the vatican would feed, shelter & give medical care to the citizens of those countries for years ....,
catholics murder those who dont beleive in their form of belief to .thou out history they have done so from the inquisition onward .

not must better than the muslin *ANIMALS *

Dear JohnA: the message in Christianity that makes the difference between spiritual life and death is "FORGIVENESS." without this, relationships die or get killed. And people have died or lost their will to live, or kill others. Forgiveness is the greatest act of charity; it saves lives, relationships, souls, and is the key to saving the world from hellish suffering and war.

 

[MaryL]

Typical. As I maintain...the progressive seeks to sexualize children, to de-criminalize sex with children, while at the same time, they seek to shut down and criminalize religion.

"

In remarks to Qatar-based TV network Al Jazeera, he said: ‘Horrible as sexual abuse no doubt was, the damage was arguably less than the long-term psychological damage inflicted by bringing the child up Catholic in the first place.’
Interviewer Mehdi Hasan asked: ‘You believe that being bought up as a Catholic is worse than being abused by a priest?’.
Professor Dawkins replied: ‘There are shades of being abused by a priest, and I quoted an example of a woman in America who wrote to me saying that when she was seven years old she was sexually abused by a priest in his car.

‘At the same time a friend of hers, also seven, who was of a Protestant family, died, and she was told that because her friend was Protestant she had gone to Hell and will be roasting in Hell forever.

‘She told me of those two abuses, she got over the physical abuse; it was yucky but she got over it.

‘But the mental abuse of being told about Hell, she took years to get over.’


Read more: Richard Dawkins: Forcing religion on your children is child abuse, claims atheist professor | Mail Online
​

First of all, R. Dawkins isn't anyone’s HERO. Second of all, I fail to see how progressives “sexualize” children when a progressive is condemning a trusted adult (who happens to be a conservative CATHOLIC priests) abusing children? Isn’t that a good thing? Well that leads me to something else here. That this post is about an Atheist bashing Christians to Al Jezeera …come on now. I really doubt Al Jejeera would give this clown the same air time if he had been dishing out how much atheists distrust Islam because Islam is basically intolerant, anti-intellectual and anti-free speech. Muslims like bad press on any other religion than their OWN. That is what I take away from this thread. I am sure there have been just as many Mullahs that have buggered little boys as had Priests. But not too many priest order “Hits” (fatwas) on Muslim unbelievers or people that mock them, Mullahs motivate suicide bombers to kill people. So, I take all this with a grain of salt and put it in perspective.

 

[laughinReaper]

so you claim the woman was lying about which thing in her life was harder to live through?

No I am saying some who have also been through a similar experience will disagree with her. It's the type of thing that has to be case by case.

Also it isn't fair to compare the two processes of healing and recovery until they're both finished.

I went through relationship abuse that really FU me up, but finished with that process, because it had an end. That doesn't make it "easier" than lighter issues that drag out longer.

I'm currently trying to finish resolving ongoing issues of legal abuse in my neighborhood that are still not settled. And since the solutions to these issues tie in with related problems all around, the process of resolving them takes longer. Of course the process is harder when it involves multiple groups, with different conflicts of interest, instead of just 1-3 people.

So even though the earlier abuse and trauma I went through were worse, and included irreparable damage much harder to heal from in comparison, it's still taking more work, time and effort to recover from the legal abuses that involve govt and party politics.

With this woman, perhaps she has something similar where the isolated incident caused more damage and harm to her personally to deal with; but the issue of abuse of either religious or political authority is so prevalent and interconnected, it will take everyone addressing both church and state institutions, before it can be contained and resolved.
Maybe she continues to feel that on her conscience until all people have forgiven it, because she is feeling the pain of other people in her perception of it, not just her own pain.

For the victim there is no right or wrong perception of which is worse or took longer to get over. I think it's awful that any priest told a child her dead friend went to hell for being protestant. Geez the guy could have at the very least,said she was in purgatory and to say prayers for her.

I think what offends me the most about this article is this Professor is using her pain to further his atheistic agenda. It's douchbaggery at the same level as ambulance chaser.IMO

 

[koshergrl]

Typical. As I maintain...the progressive seeks to sexualize children, to de-criminalize sex with children, while at the same time, they seek to shut down and criminalize religion.

"

In remarks to Qatar-based TV network Al Jazeera, he said: ‘Horrible as sexual abuse no doubt was, the damage was arguably less than the long-term psychological damage inflicted by bringing the child up Catholic in the first place.’
Interviewer Mehdi Hasan asked: ‘You believe that being bought up as a Catholic is worse than being abused by a priest?’.
Professor Dawkins replied: ‘There are shades of being abused by a priest, and I quoted an example of a woman in America who wrote to me saying that when she was seven years old she was sexually abused by a priest in his car.​

‘At the same time a friend of hers, also seven, who was of a Protestant family, died, and she was told that because her friend was Protestant she had gone to Hell and will be roasting in Hell forever.​

‘She told me of those two abuses, she got over the physical abuse; it was yucky but she got over it.​

‘But the mental abuse of being told about Hell, she took years to get over.’​

Read more: Richard Dawkins: Forcing religion on your children is child abuse, claims atheist professor | Mail Online ​

First of all, R. Dawkins isn't anyone’s HERO. Second of all, I fail to see how progressives “sexualize” children when a progressive is condemning a trusted adult (who happens to be a conservative CATHOLIC priests) abusing children? Isn’t that a good thing? Well that leads me to something else here. That this post is about an Atheist bashing Christians to Al Jezeera …come on now. I really doubt Al Jejeera would give this clown the same air time if he had been dishing out how much atheists distrust Islam because Islam is basically intolerant, anti-intellectual and anti-free speech. Muslims like bad press on any other religion than their OWN. That is what I take away from this thread. I am sure there have been just as many Mullahs that have buggered little boys as had Priests. But not too many priest order “Hits” (fatwas) on Muslim unbelievers or people that mock them, Mullahs motivate suicide bombers to kill people. So, I take all this with a grain of salt and put it in perspective.

Except he's not condemning him for the sex abuse. He maintains that there are *varying degrees* of sexual abuse. His whole point is that the sex abuse isn't so bad.

 

[laughinReaper]

And that is why he qualifies it by saying, "There are shades of being abused by a priest..".

"The former Oxford professor - who has been condemned as attention-seeking and unhelpful by critics - said last December that the mental torment inflicted by the religion’s teachings is worse in the long-term than any sexual abuse carried out by priests."

He didn't say can be, he said is. That's not for him to decide,it's for the victim to decide. A couple of my family members were victims of physical,sexual and verbal abuse by a family member. While not exactly the same I can tell you they thought the abuse at the hands of the family member was without a doubt, way worse than anything learned in church.

I'll try one more time to understand this.

Is this like saying exposing kids to violence in the media on a continual basis is worse than actual kidnapping and robbing someone.
Because the act of kidnapping and robbing is finite, has an end, and someone
can eventually recover from that trauma with therapy.
But continuing to expose people to media violence inflicts ongoing harm that is
not being corrected prevented or addressed so it keeps happening.

is this close?

There is no right way or wrong way for the victim to feel about abuse in their life. The woman,now an adult can decide whether or not to embrace Catholicism,nor does she have to believe her friend is in hell. So it shouldn't be an on going thing.

What is wrong is the professor. He is using this persons pain to further his agenda. He is saying religion is bad and abusive when that's not everybody's experience. In my case it saved my life,but you don't hear him talking about the positive aspect religion can have.

In the case of my family, Of the two people in my family who were abused by the same person and in the same way because they are siblings,one is religious and the other not. Is one right and the other wrong? No both have chosen the path they feel is best for them.

 

[MaryL]

Typical. As I maintain...the progressive seeks to sexualize children, to de-criminalize sex with children, while at the same time, they seek to shut down and criminalize religion.

"

In remarks to Qatar-based TV network Al Jazeera, he said: ‘Horrible as sexual abuse no doubt was, the damage was arguably less than the long-term psychological damage inflicted by bringing the child up Catholic in the first place.’
Interviewer Mehdi Hasan asked: ‘You believe that being bought up as a Catholic is worse than being abused by a priest?’.
Professor Dawkins replied: ‘There are shades of being abused by a priest, and I quoted an example of a woman in America who wrote to me saying that when she was seven years old she was sexually abused by a priest in his car.​

‘At the same time a friend of hers, also seven, who was of a Protestant family, died, and she was told that because her friend was Protestant she had gone to Hell and will be roasting in Hell forever.​

‘She told me of those two abuses, she got over the physical abuse; it was yucky but she got over it.​

‘But the mental abuse of being told about Hell, she took years to get over.’​

Read more: Richard Dawkins: Forcing religion on your children is child abuse, claims atheist professor | Mail Online ​

First of all, R. Dawkins isn't anyone’s HERO. Second of all, I fail to see how progressives “sexualize” children when a progressive is condemning a trusted adult (who happens to be a conservative CATHOLIC priests) abusing children? Isn’t that a good thing? Well that leads me to something else here. That this post is about an Atheist bashing Christians to Al Jezeera …come on now. I really doubt Al Jejeera would give this clown the same air time if he had been dishing out how much atheists distrust Islam because Islam is basically intolerant, anti-intellectual and anti-free speech. Muslims like bad press on any other religion than their OWN. That is what I take away from this thread. I am sure there have been just as many Mullahs that have buggered little boys as had Priests. But not too many priest order “Hits” (fatwas) on Muslim unbelievers or people that mock them, Mullahs motivate suicide bombers to kill people. So, I take all this with a grain of salt and put it in perspective.

Except he's not condemning him for the sex abuse. He maintains that there are *varying degrees* of sexual abuse. His whole point is that the sex abuse isn't so bad.

"He" being the operative word here. How many female dominated belief systems are used to further lust and egotism? There are no varying degrees of abuse. He knows it, you know it and so do the rest of us.

 

[newpolitics]

You are either being blatantly ironic for humors sake, hypocritical, are a selective amnesiac, or are just plain dumb. You don't address your posts in threads with actual other respondents, and you complain? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

Or it was confusing what you meant and even this post is moronic! You insult her because she points to a mental midget that says a Priest stating (which I believe to be a LIE) that her friend is going to hell because he is not a catholic is worse than a person getting RAPED!!!

Guess this fool never learned of sticks and stones will break your bones, but words will never hurt me!

Religion can be a very good thing, such as all the catholic charities sending doctors all over the world to prove needed medical care to 3rd world poor children, or all the catholic charties that provide food and shelter to homeless people throughout the world or when religion gives people the power to overcome a drug or alcohol addiction. Or religion can be horrendous in the case of Islam, were Muslim animals murder people because they don't believe in their demonic cult!

It doesn't matter that religion has done good things, and I wouldn't deny that it does. It does nothing in proving a god exists.

And I didn't insult her for the reasons you mentioned, I insulted her because she speaks hatefully of atheists constantly, and she is not deserving of a respectful response.

 

[there4eyeM]

"If people can't forgive something, that will cause them torment, apart from whatever event occurred and degree of trauma."

Absolutely true and necessary to psychological and existential healing.

 

[JohnA]

catholic assistance to the needy in 3rd world countries would not be needed so much if they didnt teach the natives birth control is a sin .. the birth rate would be a lot less and the countries might have a chance to sustain itself . anyway with all that income exempt from taxes they need to do something to put back into the communities they steal from. selling even half of the riches held in the vatican would feed, shelter & give medical care to the citizens of those countries for years ....,
catholics murder those who dont beleive in their form of belief to .thou out history they have done so from the inquisition onward .

not must better than the muslin *ANIMALS *

Dear JohnA: the message in Christianity that makes the difference between spiritual life and death is "FORGIVENESS." without this, relationships die or get killed. And people have died or lost their will to live, or kill others. Forgiveness is the greatest act of charity; it saves lives, relationships, souls, and is the key to saving the world from hellish suffering and war.

you dont Have to be a chriistian to* forgive* i forgive and im a atheist .

 

[emilynghiem]

catholic assistance to the needy in 3rd world countries would not be needed so much if they didnt teach the natives birth control is a sin .. the birth rate would be a lot less and the countries might have a chance to sustain itself . anyway with all that income exempt from taxes they need to do something to put back into the communities they steal from. selling even half of the riches held in the vatican would feed, shelter & give medical care to the citizens of those countries for years ....,
catholics murder those who dont beleive in their form of belief to .thou out history they have done so from the inquisition onward .

not must better than the muslin *ANIMALS *

Dear JohnA: the message in Christianity that makes the difference between spiritual life and death is "FORGIVENESS." without this, relationships die or get killed. And people have died or lost their will to live, or kill others. Forgiveness is the greatest act of charity; it saves lives, relationships, souls, and is the key to saving the world from hellish suffering and war.

you dont Have to be a chriistian to* forgive* i forgive and im a atheist .

Yes, this is what I mean also.

to be "neighbors in christ" or connected by conscience is to share in the spirit of "charity" based on this mutual forgiveness and unconditional acceptance so we can agree on truth.
and this includes equally the theists who embody scriptural laws
and the secular nontheists who live by natural laws.

universal forgiveness allows us to connect in the spirit of
"truth justice and peace." this is represented in the trinity,
but does not have to be called by that name to be the same universal spirit.
a rose by any other name is the same.

 

[koshergrl]

First of all, R. Dawkins isn't anyone’s HERO. Second of all, I fail to see how progressives “sexualize” children when a progressive is condemning a trusted adult (who happens to be a conservative CATHOLIC priests) abusing children? Isn’t that a good thing? Well that leads me to something else here. That this post is about an Atheist bashing Christians to Al Jezeera …come on now. I really doubt Al Jejeera would give this clown the same air time if he had been dishing out how much atheists distrust Islam because Islam is basically intolerant, anti-intellectual and anti-free speech. Muslims like bad press on any other religion than their OWN. That is what I take away from this thread. I am sure there have been just as many Mullahs that have buggered little boys as had Priests. But not too many priest order “Hits” (fatwas) on Muslim unbelievers or people that mock them, Mullahs motivate suicide bombers to kill people. So, I take all this with a grain of salt and put it in perspective.

Except he's not condemning him for the sex abuse. He maintains that there are *varying degrees* of sexual abuse. His whole point is that the sex abuse isn't so bad.

"He" being the operative word here. How many female dominated belief systems are used to further lust and egotism? There are no varying degrees of abuse. He knows it, you know it and so do the rest of us.

No, he doesn't know it, and neither do the many progressives who actively seek to de-criminalize sex offenses, and lighten the load for sex offenders by removing things like mandatory reporting and sex offender registration from the table.

And I don't know where you're going with the female-dominated belief system thing...please don't drag weird new-age shit into the conversation, or begin a philosophical discussion about how neo-paganism is superior to christianity.

 

[JohnA]

Dear JohnA: the message in Christianity that makes the difference between spiritual life and death is "FORGIVENESS." without this, relationships die or get killed. And people have died or lost their will to live, or kill others. Forgiveness is the greatest act of charity; it saves lives, relationships, souls, and is the key to saving the world from hellish suffering and war.

you dont Have to be a chriistian to* forgive* i forgive and im a atheist .

Yes, this is what I mean also.

to be "neighbors in christ" or connected by conscience is to share in the spirit of "charity" based on this mutual forgiveness and unconditional acceptance so we can agree on truth.
and this includes equally the theists who embody scriptural laws
and the secular nontheists who live by natural laws.

universal forgiveness allows us to connect in the spirit of
"truth justice and peace." this is represented in the trinity,
but does not have to be called by that name to be the same universal spirit.
a rose by any other name is the same.

im with you all the way there
what gets me alienated is christians who believe they and they only( because of their relationship with christ) are the only one who have good morals charity and empathy for their fellow humans , good character (regarding morals .honesty , caring etc) poeple come from all walks of life, religious or otherwise and bad character can be found in believers and non believers alike .

im so fed up with the good doers , hollier than thou chrisitans who assume cus you dont think like them and worship there deity you must be some sort of deviant /lack of morals and are stupid like the poster earlier suggested .

not so
there are good honest decent folks everywhere some believe in a higher being some dont , the sooner the religious except that the sooner all show them some respect .

 

[koshergrl]

You see the world through a filter of hate.

Christians don't and won't maintain that there aren't good honest decent folks, and we show respect to them. But we believe that the only way to attain heaven is through Christ.

Now you loons warp that and see that as some sort of condemnation of non-believers...our belief somehow means that we think we're better. We don't think we're better. We think we're saved. We know that it's faith, not works, that gets one into heaven...but you seem to think that it's all about works, and being christian means your works are BETTER. Not so. It has nothing to do with works.

It would be nice if you could present some evidence of "holier than thou" and "lack of respect".

And why would anyone "respect" someone who lies about them and obviously hates them in the first place? You lie about Christians, you seek them out to spew hateful filth about them, and you expect us to *respect* you?

Like I told someone else in another thread...we aren't your slaves. If you want a slave, go to a muslim market and buy one.