Trump Drags Allies into Wiretap lie Controversy

[reconmark]

"Trump’s unproven allegation that his predecessor wiretapped Trump Tower

Yet you judged it as a lie.

No Republican AND Democrat leaders have judged it as a lie....

 

[bodecea]

"Trump’s unproven allegation that his predecessor wiretapped Trump Tower in New York ahead of the election blazed a new path of political disruption Friday as he dragged two foreign allies into his increasingly thin argument that he is right.

Standing next to German Chancellor Angela Merkel at a White House news conference Friday afternoon, Trump declined to express regret for the accusation he tweeted nearly two weeks ago, despite some of the highest-ranking members of his own party saying they have seen no evidence that any such wiretapping occurred. Trump also passed on the opportunity to reject an unfounded report from a Fox News commentator asserting that British intelligence agents were involved in the alleged spying — even though White House officials had just assured livid British leaders that they would no longer promote the claim.
[…]
The international incidents cap nearly two weeks of surreal debate over the president’s apparently baseless accusation that Obama personally ordered the wiretapping of his Trump Tower campaign headquarters, consuming the time of not only White House staffers but also Congress, the Justice Department, the CIA and other intelligence agencies.”

Trump drags key foreign allies into controversy over unproven wiretap claims

Surreal indeed, as well as bizarre and ridiculous.

And there’s nothing to ‘debate,’ the notion that President Obama ‘wiretapped’ Trump Tower is just another Trump lie, along with the lie that British intelligence was involved.

How anyone in good faith can support or defend the likes of Trump remains a mystery.

Yeah....and they also said Trump probably didn't pay any income taxes.......and see how that turned out for them...

You morons keep underestimating Trump...good......

Can you point out were anyone made the claim that the so-called president never paid income tax?

 

[KeiserC]

I see a lot of wishful thinking here, willing the political tea leaves into submission. The lens of objectivity may be harsh and some of us may have to resist drinking more of the Kool Aid.
- in the world of politics truth and veracity are largely relegated to 'quaint' at best. Unsubstantiated accusations work fine and then passage of time or explaining it away later usually is enough
- when party officials come out and say they find no evidence, that is a stunt, it is a manipulation of verbiage as the investigation is ongoing and anyone can ascertain the fact that the Congressional investigation is ongoing.

 

[beagle9]

"Trump’s unproven allegation that his predecessor wiretapped Trump Tower in New York ahead of the election blazed a new path of political disruption Friday as he dragged two foreign allies into his increasingly thin argument that he is right.

Standing next to German Chancellor Angela Merkel at a White House news conference Friday afternoon, Trump declined to express regret for the accusation he tweeted nearly two weeks ago, despite some of the highest-ranking members of his own party saying they have seen no evidence that any such wiretapping occurred. Trump also passed on the opportunity to reject an unfounded report from a Fox News commentator asserting that British intelligence agents were involved in the alleged spying — even though White House officials had just assured livid British leaders that they would no longer promote the claim.
[…]
The international incidents cap nearly two weeks of surreal debate over the president’s apparently baseless accusation that Obama personally ordered the wiretapping of his Trump Tower campaign headquarters, consuming the time of not only White House staffers but also Congress, the Justice Department, the CIA and other intelligence agencies.”

Trump drags key foreign allies into controversy over unproven wiretap claims

Surreal indeed, as well as bizarre and ridiculous.

And there’s nothing to ‘debate,’ the notion that President Obama ‘wiretapped’ Trump Tower is just another Trump lie, along with the lie that British intelligence was involved.

How anyone in good faith can support or defend the likes of Trump remains a mystery.

Yeah....and they also said Trump probably didn't pay any income taxes.......and see how that turned out for them...

You morons keep underestimating Trump...good......

So in other words...you have , like trump absolutely no proof of any wiretapping, right????

You don't know what Trump has......remember...all you assholes said he didn't pay any taxes....which was why he was hiding his tax returns....you were absolutely certain of that.......until we saw his actual tax return....

Keep thinking he is an idiot.....it only helps him win....

Once again you attempt to deflect from the facts...the argument of the lost.
trump has nothing, if he did it would have been submitted for investigation or evidence already...
He instructed his lap dogs to try to intimidate investigators and break protocol by demanding that officials not put out the fact that no evidence exists that substantiate his lie.
So the deflection ploy is really stale...he has no evidence and is not man enough to admit his lie or apologize for his ignorant and slanderous remarks based on another stupid assed right wing opinion piece.

Tables turned got libs on the defense now. Hilarious.

 

[beagle9]

"Trump’s unproven allegation that his predecessor wiretapped Trump Tower in New York ahead of the election blazed a new path of political disruption Friday as he dragged two foreign allies into his increasingly thin argument that he is right.

Standing next to German Chancellor Angela Merkel at a White House news conference Friday afternoon, Trump declined to express regret for the accusation he tweeted nearly two weeks ago, despite some of the highest-ranking members of his own party saying they have seen no evidence that any such wiretapping occurred. Trump also passed on the opportunity to reject an unfounded report from a Fox News commentator asserting that British intelligence agents were involved in the alleged spying — even though White House officials had just assured livid British leaders that they would no longer promote the claim.
[…]
The international incidents cap nearly two weeks of surreal debate over the president’s apparently baseless accusation that Obama personally ordered the wiretapping of his Trump Tower campaign headquarters, consuming the time of not only White House staffers but also Congress, the Justice Department, the CIA and other intelligence agencies.”

Trump drags key foreign allies into controversy over unproven wiretap claims

Surreal indeed, as well as bizarre and ridiculous.

And there’s nothing to ‘debate,’ the notion that President Obama ‘wiretapped’ Trump Tower is just another Trump lie, along with the lie that British intelligence was involved.

How anyone in good faith can support or defend the likes of Trump remains a mystery.

Yeah....and they also said Trump probably didn't pay any income taxes.......and see how that turned out for them...

You morons keep underestimating Trump...good......

Can you point out were anyone made the claim that the so-called president never paid income tax?

. Here or on the 24 hour MSM ? Most of the bullcrap comes from the MSM. I'm sure on the view or on MSNBC, NPR or somewhere there were these pundits that espoused their views in that way. In fact didn't the bullcrap go on during the debates ?

 

[2aguy]

"Trump’s unproven allegation that his predecessor wiretapped Trump Tower in New York ahead of the election blazed a new path of political disruption Friday as he dragged two foreign allies into his increasingly thin argument that he is right.

Standing next to German Chancellor Angela Merkel at a White House news conference Friday afternoon, Trump declined to express regret for the accusation he tweeted nearly two weeks ago, despite some of the highest-ranking members of his own party saying they have seen no evidence that any such wiretapping occurred. Trump also passed on the opportunity to reject an unfounded report from a Fox News commentator asserting that British intelligence agents were involved in the alleged spying — even though White House officials had just assured livid British leaders that they would no longer promote the claim.
[…]
The international incidents cap nearly two weeks of surreal debate over the president’s apparently baseless accusation that Obama personally ordered the wiretapping of his Trump Tower campaign headquarters, consuming the time of not only White House staffers but also Congress, the Justice Department, the CIA and other intelligence agencies.”

Trump drags key foreign allies into controversy over unproven wiretap claims

Surreal indeed, as well as bizarre and ridiculous.

And there’s nothing to ‘debate,’ the notion that President Obama ‘wiretapped’ Trump Tower is just another Trump lie, along with the lie that British intelligence was involved.

How anyone in good faith can support or defend the likes of Trump remains a mystery.

Yeah....and they also said Trump probably didn't pay any income taxes.......and see how that turned out for them...

You morons keep underestimating Trump...good......

Can you point out were anyone made the claim that the so-called president never paid income tax?

You mean like hilary clinton.....the New York Times....rachel maddow.....the Washington Post...you are such an asshole....

A Lot of People, Including Hillary Clinton, Said Trump Didn’t Pay His Taxes

For weeks during the 2016 campaign, media members, comedians, and Democrats suggested that Donald Trump had not paid income taxes for nearly 20 years.

The accusation came out of a New York Times report that said Trump declared a $916 million loss in 1995, and thus could have avoided paying federal income taxes for about two decades.

However, MSNBC pundit Rachel Maddow debunked that theory on her eponymous program Tuesday night, tantalizing viewers by tweeting that she had Trump's tax records before revealing it was actually two pages from his 2005 return. It showed he paid $38 million in taxes that year.

That did not stop a lot of people, including Hillary Clinton, from leveling the charge during the campaign that Trump failed to pay his taxes without direct proof.

Donald Trump’s defenses of not paying taxes pretty much say it all

Key line: "No more tax than legally required." Nobody is accusing Trump of doing anything illegal by avoiding income taxes — there are ways for real estate moguls to do it — but, politically speaking, a billionaire not paying income taxes for years or even decades could rub voters the wrong way

 

[beagle9]

I see a lot of wishful thinking here, willing the political tea leaves into submission. The lens of objectivity may be harsh and some of us may have to resist drinking more of the Kool Aid.
- in the world of politics truth and veracity are largely relegated to 'quaint' at best. Unsubstantiated accusations work fine and then passage of time or explaining it away later usually is enough
- when party officials come out and say they find no evidence, that is a stunt, it is a manipulation of verbiage as the investigation is ongoing and anyone can ascertain the fact that the Congressional investigation is ongoing.

. But can you accurately suggest that this that you write is what has gone on here or is going on here ? If the truth is being told, but the left just keeps looking for a spark, then the destruction of the left could be at hand when that spark is lost. If never a spark existed, then the destruction of the left has begun. The certainty that Hillary was the one, has since damaged the left badly, but they may have been damaged before hand. Hillary just sealed their fate.

 

[beagle9]

"Trump’s unproven allegation that his predecessor wiretapped Trump Tower in New York ahead of the election blazed a new path of political disruption Friday as he dragged two foreign allies into his increasingly thin argument that he is right.

Standing next to German Chancellor Angela Merkel at a White House news conference Friday afternoon, Trump declined to express regret for the accusation he tweeted nearly two weeks ago, despite some of the highest-ranking members of his own party saying they have seen no evidence that any such wiretapping occurred. Trump also passed on the opportunity to reject an unfounded report from a Fox News commentator asserting that British intelligence agents were involved in the alleged spying — even though White House officials had just assured livid British leaders that they would no longer promote the claim.
[…]
The international incidents cap nearly two weeks of surreal debate over the president’s apparently baseless accusation that Obama personally ordered the wiretapping of his Trump Tower campaign headquarters, consuming the time of not only White House staffers but also Congress, the Justice Department, the CIA and other intelligence agencies.”

Trump drags key foreign allies into controversy over unproven wiretap claims

Surreal indeed, as well as bizarre and ridiculous.

And there’s nothing to ‘debate,’ the notion that President Obama ‘wiretapped’ Trump Tower is just another Trump lie, along with the lie that British intelligence was involved.

How anyone in good faith can support or defend the likes of Trump remains a mystery.

Yeah....and they also said Trump probably didn't pay any income taxes.......and see how that turned out for them...

You morons keep underestimating Trump...good......

Can you point out were anyone made the claim that the so-called president never paid income tax?

You mean like hilary clinton.....the New York Times....rachel maddow.....

A Lot of People, Including Hillary Clinton, Said Trump Didn’t Pay His Taxes

For weeks during the 2016 campaign, media members, comedians, and Democrats suggested that Donald Trump had not paid income taxes for nearly 20 years.

The accusation came out of a New York Times report that said Trump declared a $916 million loss in 1995, and thus could have avoided paying federal income taxes for about two decades.

However, MSNBC pundit Rachel Maddow debunked that theory on her eponymous program Tuesday night, tantalizing viewers by tweeting that she had Trump's tax records before revealing it was actually two pages from his 2005 return. It showed he paid $38 million in taxes that year.

That did not stop a lot of people, including Hillary Clinton, from leveling the charge during the campaign that Trump failed to pay his taxes without direct proof.

. That Harry Reid pulled the same card on someone else also didn't he ? Wasn't it Mitt Romney ?

 

[KeiserC]

Beagle9 I would suggest that there doesn't exist the degree of absolutism that you are referring to "...looking for a spark, then the destruction of the left could be at hand when that spark is lost. If never a spark existed, then the destruction of the left has begun". Take it more as fencing or sparring dribs and drabs of blood with both retiring to commence again shortly on another quarrel. Damage, sure to some degree but nothing remotely fatal. The spark you are referring to is mitigated by how it is manipulated by each side and pervaded to us through the distortions of the media. It seems Trump has something of a spark with the FISA Court not as sure about the Trump Russia connection though not as tangible of a spark there yet.

The short answer to 'do I believe what I wrote is going on here' is yes. First though before obfuscating the issue of 'tapping' and Rusia can we start out by agreeing on the objective data that has been established? 10 objective, immutable facts to get us started... from a 3/3/17 article by Joel B. Pollak

1. June 2016: FISA request. The Obama administration files a request with the t FISA Court to monitor communications involving Donald Trump and several advisers. The request, uncharacteristically, is denied.

2. July: Russia joke. Wikileaks releases emails from the Democratic National Committee that show an effort to prevent Sen. Sanders from winning the presidential nomination. In a press conference, Donald Trump refers to Hillary Clinton’s own missing emails jokingly saying“Russia, if you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 e-mails that are missing.” That remark becomes the basis for accusations by Clinton and the media that Trump invited further hacking.

3. October: Podesta emails. In October, Wikileaks released the emails of Podesta, rolling out batches every day until the election, creating new mini-scandals. The Clinton campaign blames Trump and the Russians.

4. October: FISA request. The Obama administration a new narrower request to the FISA court, now focused on a computer server in Trump Tower suspected of links to Russian banks. No evidence is found — but the wiretaps continue, ostensibly for national security reasons, McCarthy at Nat. Review later notes that the Obama administration is now monitoring an opposing presidential campaign using the high-tech surveillance powers of the fed. intelligence services.


5. January 2017: Buzzfeed / CNN dossier. reports a supposed intelligence 'dossier' compiled by a foreign former spy. It purports to show continuous contact between Russia and the Trump campaign, and says that the Russians have compromising information about Trump. None of the allegations can be verified and some are proven false. Several media outlets claim that they had been aware of the dossier for months and that it had been circulating in Washington.

6. January: Obama expands NSA sharing. As Michael Walsh later notes and as the New York Times reports, the outgoing Obama administration “expanded the power of the National Security Agency to share globally intercepted personal communications with the government’s 16 other intelligence agencies before applying privacy protections.” The new powers, and reduced protections, could make it easier for intelligence on private citizens to be circulated improperly or leaked.

7. January: Times report. The New York Times reports, on the eve of Inauguration Day, that several agencies — the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), the National Security Agency (NSA) and the Treasury Department are monitoring several associates of the Trump campaign suspected of Russian ties. Other news outlets also report the exisentence of “a multiagency working group to coordinate investigations across the government,” though it is unclear how they found out, since the investigations would have been secret and involved classified information.

8. February: Mike Flynn scandal. Reports emerge that the FBI intercepted a conversation in 2016 between future National Security Adviser Michael Flynn — then a private citizen — and Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak. The intercept supposedly was part of routine spying on the ambassador, not monitoring of the Trump campaign. The FBI transcripts reportedly show the two discussing Obama’s newly-imposed sanctions on Russia, though Flynn earlier denied discussing them. Sally Yates, whom Trump would later fire as acting Attorney General for insubordination, is involved in the investigation. In the end, Flynn resigns over having misled Vice President Mike Pence (perhaps inadvertently) about the content of the conversation.

9. February: Times claims extensive Russian contacts. The New York Times cites “four current and former American officials” in reporting that the Trump campaign had “repeated contacts with senior Russian intelligence officials. The Trump campaign denies the claims — and the Times admits that there is “no evidence” of coordination between the campaign and the Russians. The White House and some congressional Republicans begin to raise questions about illegal intelligence leaks.

10. March: the Washington Post targets Jeff Sessions. The Washington Post reports that Attorney General Jeff Sessions had contact twice with the Russian ambassador during the campaign — once at a Heritage Foundation event and once at a meeting in Sessions’s Senate office. The Post suggests that the two meetings contradict Sessions’s testimony at his confirmation hearings that he had no contacts with the Russians, though in context (not presented by the Post) it was clear he meant in his capacity as a campaign surrogate, and that he was responding to claims in the “dossier” of ongoing contacts. The New York Times, in covering the story, adds that the Obama White House “rushed to preserve” intelligence related to alleged Russian links with the Trump campaign. By “preserve” it really means “disseminate”: officials spread evidence throughout other government agencies “to leave a clear trail of intelligence for government investigators” and perhaps the media as well.

parap

 

[theHawk]

"Trump’s unproven allegation that his predecessor wiretapped Trump Tower in New York ahead of the election blazed a new path of political disruption Friday as he dragged two foreign allies into his increasingly thin argument that he is right.

Standing next to German Chancellor Angela Merkel at a White House news conference Friday afternoon, Trump declined to express regret for the accusation he tweeted nearly two weeks ago, despite some of the highest-ranking members of his own party saying they have seen no evidence that any such wiretapping occurred. Trump also passed on the opportunity to reject an unfounded report from a Fox News commentator asserting that British intelligence agents were involved in the alleged spying — even though White House officials had just assured livid British leaders that they would no longer promote the claim.
[…]
The international incidents cap nearly two weeks of surreal debate over the president’s apparently baseless accusation that Obama personally ordered the wiretapping of his Trump Tower campaign headquarters, consuming the time of not only White House staffers but also Congress, the Justice Department, the CIA and other intelligence agencies.”

Trump drags key foreign allies into controversy over unproven wiretap claims

Surreal indeed, as well as bizarre and ridiculous.

And there’s nothing to ‘debate,’ the notion that President Obama ‘wiretapped’ Trump Tower is just another Trump lie, along with the lie that British intelligence was involved.

How anyone in good faith can support or defend the likes of Trump remains a mystery.

You're just mad because he reminded the world what a piece of shit Obama was for illegally wiretapping allied leaders like Merkel.

 

[reconmark]

"Trump’s unproven allegation that his predecessor wiretapped Trump Tower in New York ahead of the election blazed a new path of political disruption Friday as he dragged two foreign allies into his increasingly thin argument that he is right.

Standing next to German Chancellor Angela Merkel at a White House news conference Friday afternoon, Trump declined to express regret for the accusation he tweeted nearly two weeks ago, despite some of the highest-ranking members of his own party saying they have seen no evidence that any such wiretapping occurred. Trump also passed on the opportunity to reject an unfounded report from a Fox News commentator asserting that British intelligence agents were involved in the alleged spying — even though White House officials had just assured livid British leaders that they would no longer promote the claim.
[…]
The international incidents cap nearly two weeks of surreal debate over the president’s apparently baseless accusation that Obama personally ordered the wiretapping of his Trump Tower campaign headquarters, consuming the time of not only White House staffers but also Congress, the Justice Department, the CIA and other intelligence agencies.”

Trump drags key foreign allies into controversy over unproven wiretap claims

Surreal indeed, as well as bizarre and ridiculous.

And there’s nothing to ‘debate,’ the notion that President Obama ‘wiretapped’ Trump Tower is just another Trump lie, along with the lie that British intelligence was involved.

How anyone in good faith can support or defend the likes of Trump remains a mystery.

Yeah....and they also said Trump probably didn't pay any income taxes.......and see how that turned out for them...

You morons keep underestimating Trump...good......

So in other words...you have , like trump absolutely no proof of any wiretapping, right????

You don't know what Trump has......remember...all you assholes said he didn't pay any taxes....which was why he was hiding his tax returns....you were absolutely certain of that.......until we saw his actual tax return....

Keep thinking he is an idiot.....it only helps him win....

Once again you attempt to deflect from the facts...the argument of the lost.
trump has nothing, if he did it would have been submitted for investigation or evidence already...
He instructed his lap dogs to try to intimidate investigators and break protocol by demanding that officials not put out the fact that no evidence exists that substantiate his lie.
So the deflection ploy is really stale...he has no evidence and is not man enough to admit his lie or apologize for his ignorant and slanderous remarks based on another stupid assed right wing opinion piece.

Tables turned got libs on the defense now. Hilarious.

Actually only an idiot would agree with your uninformed post...typical conservative.
Tell you what, when members of both parties agree that no evidence exists to support the traitor in chief and you still are stupid enough to post the nonsense that you did, we pretty much know who's on the defensive....

 

[2aguy]

"Trump’s unproven allegation that his predecessor wiretapped Trump Tower in New York ahead of the election blazed a new path of political disruption Friday as he dragged two foreign allies into his increasingly thin argument that he is right.

Standing next to German Chancellor Angela Merkel at a White House news conference Friday afternoon, Trump declined to express regret for the accusation he tweeted nearly two weeks ago, despite some of the highest-ranking members of his own party saying they have seen no evidence that any such wiretapping occurred. Trump also passed on the opportunity to reject an unfounded report from a Fox News commentator asserting that British intelligence agents were involved in the alleged spying — even though White House officials had just assured livid British leaders that they would no longer promote the claim.
[…]
The international incidents cap nearly two weeks of surreal debate over the president’s apparently baseless accusation that Obama personally ordered the wiretapping of his Trump Tower campaign headquarters, consuming the time of not only White House staffers but also Congress, the Justice Department, the CIA and other intelligence agencies.”

Trump drags key foreign allies into controversy over unproven wiretap claims

Surreal indeed, as well as bizarre and ridiculous.

And there’s nothing to ‘debate,’ the notion that President Obama ‘wiretapped’ Trump Tower is just another Trump lie, along with the lie that British intelligence was involved.

How anyone in good faith can support or defend the likes of Trump remains a mystery.

Yeah....and they also said Trump probably didn't pay any income taxes.......and see how that turned out for them...

You morons keep underestimating Trump...good......

Can you point out were anyone made the claim that the so-called president never paid income tax?

Here you go twit.....

Trump Paid $38 Million In Taxes In One Year Alone. Here Are 9 Times Democrats Claimed Trump Paid No Taxes.

1. Hillary Clinton.


2. Sen. Tim Kaine (D-VA).

3. Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-MA).
4. Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT).


5. Rep. Diana DeGette (D-CO).



6. Howard Dean.


7. Chris Matthews.


8. Robert Reich.


9. The New York Times editorial board.

 

[beagle9]

Beagle9 I would suggest that there doesn't exist the degree of absolutism that you are referring to "...looking for a spark, then the destruction of the left could be at hand when that spark is lost. If never a spark existed, then the destruction of the left has begun". Take it more as fencing or sparring dribs and drabs of blood with both retiring to commence again shortly on another quarrel. Damage, sure to some degree but nothing remotely fatal. The spark you are referring to is mitigated by how it is manipulated by each side and pervaded to us through the distortions of the media. It seems Trump has something of a spark with the FISA Court not as sure about the Trump Russia connection though not as tangible of a spark there yet.

The short answer to 'do I believe what I wrote is going on here' is yes. First though before obfuscating the issue of 'tapping' and Russia can we start out by agreeing on the objective data that has been established? 10 objective, immutable facts to get us started... from a 3/3/17 article by Joel B. Pollak

1. June 2016: FISA request. The Obama administration files a request with the t FISA Court to monitor communications involving Donald Trump and several advisers. The request, uncharacteristically, is denied.

2. July: Russia joke. Wikileaks releases emails from the Democratic National Committee that show an effort to prevent Sen. Sanders from winning the presidential nomination. In a press conference, Donald Trump refers to Hillary Clinton’s own missing emails jokingly saying“Russia, if you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 e-mails that are missing.” That remark becomes the basis for accusations by Clinton and the media that Trump invited further hacking.

3. October: Podesta emails. In October, Wikileaks released the emails of Podesta, rolling out batches every day until the election, creating new mini-scandals. The Clinton campaign blames Trump and the Russians.

4. October: FISA request. The Obama administration a new narrower request to the FISA court, now focused on a computer server in Trump Tower suspected of links to Russian banks. No evidence is found — but the wiretaps continue, ostensibly for national security reasons, McCarthy at Nat. Review later notes that the Obama administration is now monitoring an opposing presidential campaign using the high-tech surveillance powers of the fed. intelligence services.


5. January 2017: Buzzfeed / CNN dossier. reports a supposed intelligence 'dossier' compiled by a foreign former spy. It purports to show continuous contact between Russia and the Trump campaign, and says that the Russians have compromising information about Trump. None of the allegations can be verified and some are proven false. Several media outlets claim that they had been aware of the dossier for months and that it had been circulating in Washington.

6. January: Obama expands NSA sharing. As Michael Walsh later notes and as the New York Times reports, the outgoing Obama administration “expanded the power of the National Security Agency to share globally intercepted personal communications with the government’s 16 other intelligence agencies before applying privacy protections.” The new powers, and reduced protections, could make it easier for intelligence on private citizens to be circulated improperly or leaked.

7. January: Times report. The New York Times reports, on the eve of Inauguration Day, that several agencies — the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), the National Security Agency (NSA) and the Treasury Department are monitoring several associates of the Trump campaign suspected of Russian ties. Other news outlets also report the exisentence of “a multiagency working group to coordinate investigations across the government,” though it is unclear how they found out, since the investigations would have been secret and involved classified information.

8. February: Mike Flynn scandal. Reports emerge that the FBI intercepted a conversation in 2016 between future National Security Adviser Michael Flynn — then a private citizen — and Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak. The intercept supposedly was part of routine spying on the ambassador, not monitoring of the Trump campaign. The FBI transcripts reportedly show the two discussing Obama’s newly-imposed sanctions on Russia, though Flynn earlier denied discussing them. Sally Yates, whom Trump would later fire as acting Attorney General for insubordination, is involved in the investigation. In the end, Flynn resigns over having misled Vice President Mike Pence (perhaps inadvertently) about the content of the conversation.

9. February: Times claims extensive Russian contacts. The New York Times cites “four current and former American officials” in reporting that the Trump campaign had “repeated contacts with senior Russian intelligence officials. The Trump campaign denies the claims — and the Times admits that there is “no evidence” of coordination between the campaign and the Russians. The White House and some congressional Republicans begin to raise questions about illegal intelligence leaks.

10. March: the Washington Post targets Jeff Sessions. The Washington Post reports that Attorney General Jeff Sessions had contact twice with the Russian ambassador during the campaign — once at a Heritage Foundation event and once at a meeting in Sessions’s Senate office. The Post suggests that the two meetings contradict Sessions’s testimony at his confirmation hearings that he had no contacts with the Russians, though in context (not presented by the Post) it was clear he meant in his capacity as a campaign surrogate, and that he was responding to claims in the “dossier” of ongoing contacts. The New York Times, in covering the story, adds that the Obama White House “rushed to preserve” intelligence related to alleged Russian links with the Trump campaign. By “preserve” it really means “disseminate”: officials spread evidence throughout other government agencies “to leave a clear trail of intelligence for government investigators” and perhaps the media as well.

parap

. Why did the Obama administration seek a FISA warrant against Trump during an election campaign where Trump was running for office ?? I mean other than to try and bury a political opponent he saw as a threat to Hillary Clinton ? Did he watch as Trump whooped the tar out of his Republican opponents, and then figure that he had to spring into action before he faced Hillary in the primaries ? Did the Obama administration surveil Trump and his campaign in order to hope to get some dirt on him so Hillary would win ?? As far as Trump saying "hey Russia, I hope your listening, and can help find those 33,000 e-mails Hillary deleted", in my opinion clears him from his being connected to Russia or why else would he have openly said such a thing ? I know why, it was because the narrative had already been created by the left that Trump was in bed with Russia, so Trump laughingly said what he said about them (otherwise while they Russia were at it), how about finding them dam e-mails she deleted. LOL. Trump is clean, but the left has got to find something even if it's just a tiny little spark of hope.

 

[2aguy]

Beagle9 I would suggest that there doesn't exist the degree of absolutism that you are referring to "...looking for a spark, then the destruction of the left could be at hand when that spark is lost. If never a spark existed, then the destruction of the left has begun". Take it more as fencing or sparring dribs and drabs of blood with both retiring to commence again shortly on another quarrel. Damage, sure to some degree but nothing remotely fatal. The spark you are referring to is mitigated by how it is manipulated by each side and pervaded to us through the distortions of the media. It seems Trump has something of a spark with the FISA Court not as sure about the Trump Russia connection though not as tangible of a spark there yet.

The short answer to 'do I believe what I wrote is going on here' is yes. First though before obfuscating the issue of 'tapping' and Russia can we start out by agreeing on the objective data that has been established? 10 objective, immutable facts to get us started... from a 3/3/17 article by Joel B. Pollak

1. June 2016: FISA request. The Obama administration files a request with the t FISA Court to monitor communications involving Donald Trump and several advisers. The request, uncharacteristically, is denied.

2. July: Russia joke. Wikileaks releases emails from the Democratic National Committee that show an effort to prevent Sen. Sanders from winning the presidential nomination. In a press conference, Donald Trump refers to Hillary Clinton’s own missing emails jokingly saying“Russia, if you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 e-mails that are missing.” That remark becomes the basis for accusations by Clinton and the media that Trump invited further hacking.

3. October: Podesta emails. In October, Wikileaks released the emails of Podesta, rolling out batches every day until the election, creating new mini-scandals. The Clinton campaign blames Trump and the Russians.

4. October: FISA request. The Obama administration a new narrower request to the FISA court, now focused on a computer server in Trump Tower suspected of links to Russian banks. No evidence is found — but the wiretaps continue, ostensibly for national security reasons, McCarthy at Nat. Review later notes that the Obama administration is now monitoring an opposing presidential campaign using the high-tech surveillance powers of the fed. intelligence services.


5. January 2017: Buzzfeed / CNN dossier. reports a supposed intelligence 'dossier' compiled by a foreign former spy. It purports to show continuous contact between Russia and the Trump campaign, and says that the Russians have compromising information about Trump. None of the allegations can be verified and some are proven false. Several media outlets claim that they had been aware of the dossier for months and that it had been circulating in Washington.

6. January: Obama expands NSA sharing. As Michael Walsh later notes and as the New York Times reports, the outgoing Obama administration “expanded the power of the National Security Agency to share globally intercepted personal communications with the government’s 16 other intelligence agencies before applying privacy protections.” The new powers, and reduced protections, could make it easier for intelligence on private citizens to be circulated improperly or leaked.

7. January: Times report. The New York Times reports, on the eve of Inauguration Day, that several agencies — the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), the National Security Agency (NSA) and the Treasury Department are monitoring several associates of the Trump campaign suspected of Russian ties. Other news outlets also report the exisentence of “a multiagency working group to coordinate investigations across the government,” though it is unclear how they found out, since the investigations would have been secret and involved classified information.

8. February: Mike Flynn scandal. Reports emerge that the FBI intercepted a conversation in 2016 between future National Security Adviser Michael Flynn — then a private citizen — and Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak. The intercept supposedly was part of routine spying on the ambassador, not monitoring of the Trump campaign. The FBI transcripts reportedly show the two discussing Obama’s newly-imposed sanctions on Russia, though Flynn earlier denied discussing them. Sally Yates, whom Trump would later fire as acting Attorney General for insubordination, is involved in the investigation. In the end, Flynn resigns over having misled Vice President Mike Pence (perhaps inadvertently) about the content of the conversation.

9. February: Times claims extensive Russian contacts. The New York Times cites “four current and former American officials” in reporting that the Trump campaign had “repeated contacts with senior Russian intelligence officials. The Trump campaign denies the claims — and the Times admits that there is “no evidence” of coordination between the campaign and the Russians. The White House and some congressional Republicans begin to raise questions about illegal intelligence leaks.

10. March: the Washington Post targets Jeff Sessions. The Washington Post reports that Attorney General Jeff Sessions had contact twice with the Russian ambassador during the campaign — once at a Heritage Foundation event and once at a meeting in Sessions’s Senate office. The Post suggests that the two meetings contradict Sessions’s testimony at his confirmation hearings that he had no contacts with the Russians, though in context (not presented by the Post) it was clear he meant in his capacity as a campaign surrogate, and that he was responding to claims in the “dossier” of ongoing contacts. The New York Times, in covering the story, adds that the Obama White House “rushed to preserve” intelligence related to alleged Russian links with the Trump campaign. By “preserve” it really means “disseminate”: officials spread evidence throughout other government agencies “to leave a clear trail of intelligence for government investigators” and perhaps the media as well.

parap

. Why did the Obama administration seek a FISA warrant against Trump during an election campaign where Trump was running for office ?? I mean other than to try and bury a political opponent he saw as a threat to Hillary Clinton ? Did he watch as Trump whooped the tar out of his Republican opponents, and then figure that he had to spring into action before he faced Hillary in the primaries ? Did the Obama administration surveil Trump and his campaign in order to hope to get some dirt on him so Hillary would win ?? As far as Trump saying "hey Russia, I hope your listening, and can help find those 33,000 e-mails Hillary deleted", in my opinion clears him from his being connected to Russia or why else would he have openly said such a thing ? I know why, it was because the narrative had already been created by the left that Trump was in bed with Russia, so Trump laughingly said what he said about them (otherwise while they Russia were at it), how about finding them dam e-mails she deleted. LOL. Trump is clean, but the left has got to find something even if it's just a tiny little spark of hope.

As far as Trump saying "hey Russia, I hope your listening, and can help find those 33,000 e-mails Hillary deleted", in my opinion clears him from his being connected to Russia or why else would he have openly said such a thing ?

He was making a joke and being sarcastic.....since she destroyed those 33,000 emails and the democrats in the press...who had been hounding him relentlessly, seemed uninterested on why she destroyed those emails.....

 

[KeiserC]

The issue is not whether Obama tapped Trump Tower that is documented established fact and was done so legally in Oct. of 2016. The issue is whether the scope of FISA warrants were illegally exceeded. And if the information gathered was legally protected and disseminated.

01-12-2017 with only a few days until Donald Trump was to take office, the Obama administration announced new rules that would let the NSA share vast amounts of private data gathered without warrant, court orders or congressional authorization with 16 other agencies, including the FBI, the Drug Enforcement Agency, and the Department of Homeland Security. The new rules allowed employees doing intelligence work for those agencies to sift through raw data collected under a broad, Reagan-era executive order that gives the NSA virtually unlimited authority to intercept communications abroad. Previously, NSA analysts would filter out information they deemed irrelevant and mask the names of innocent Americans before passing it along.

Call this draconian policy change a deliberate obfuscation or not; it's causing Trump the inconvenience of inheriting NSA policy which makes it less likely that accountability and oversight of information mishandling can be controlled. Now 16 agencies in addition to the NSA have to investigate all employees that may have had content or knowledge of information pertinent to these taps.

That is the legality issue, not whether there was or wasn't tapping. The media deliberately likes to paint this straightforward legality question with disingenuous, deceptive coverage.

 

[beagle9]

The issue is not whether Obama tapped Trump Tower that is documented established fact and was done so legally in Oct. of 2016. The issue is whether the scope of FISA warrants were illegally exceeded. And if the information gathered was legally protected and disseminated.

01-12-2017 with only a few days until Donald Trump was to take office, the Obama administration announced new rules that would let the NSA share vast amounts of private data gathered without warrant, court orders or congressional authorization with 16 other agencies, including the FBI, the Drug Enforcement Agency, and the Department of Homeland Security. The new rules allowed employees doing intelligence work for those agencies to sift through raw data collected under a broad, Reagan-era executive order that gives the NSA virtually unlimited authority to intercept communications abroad. Previously, NSA analysts would filter out information they deemed irrelevant and mask the names of innocent Americans before passing it along.

Call this draconian policy change a deliberate obfuscation or not; it's causing Trump the inconvenience of inheriting NSA policy which makes it less likely that accountability and oversight of information mishandling can be controlled. Now 16 agencies in addition to the NSA have to investigate all employees that may have had content or knowledge of information pertinent to these taps.

That is the legality issue, not whether there was or wasn't tapping. The media deliberately likes to paint this straightforward legality question with disingenuous, deceptive coverage.

. So Obama changed the rules to benefit his wanting to gain information easier on his political enemies, and then to muddy the waters as to where exactly the information came in from ?

 

[KeiserC]

No, nothing changed with the FISA Court warrant process of the NSA. It's the law change after that where the information gleaned is shared and disseminated within 16 other agencies. it's almost impossible to keep accountability of this sensitive information among the 16 other agencies and make sure that nothing is leaked. Without complete vetting on a vast inter-agency scale, the illegality of information outside the scope of the original FISA warrant (in the stipulated narrow scope of the warrant) may or may not be able to tracked down.

Now hypothetically if an administration would like to make it impossible or exceedingly arduous for sensitive material mishandling to see the light of day they might take the last days, of the last wk, of their 8 year administration to upturn the whole NSA process in handling the most sensitive protected information out there.

 

[KeiserC]

Come Monday morning, a lot more will be coming out about the rampant overreach of the NSA into not only Trump computers in TT but dozens of his employees. We'll be seeing more about UK intelligence in cahoots with the Obama admin. keeping O's fingerprints off of pre-election tapping. This next wk. some of this will hit the fan!!!

For a preview you can start some preliminary reading...

NSA Documents Prove Surveillance of Donald Trump & His Family
Andrew Napolitano: Did Obama spy on Trump?

I don't subscribe to most of what Alex Jones says but info in this link can be cross checked.

 

[KeiserC]

Look also come Monday, for Dems' to start warning their base of there NOT being a Trump / Russia connection...