Trump said he might have to close Mosques :D

[Political Junky]

A billion adherents worldwide.

 

[Flopper]

Of course it does. By closing mosques, we are validating what ISIS and Al Qaeda claim, that the infidels will desecrate sacred shrines, destroy mosques, and deny true believers the opportunity to praise Allah.

Are you insane ? You are actually sitting there right now, saying that we should have total tolerance ?..

..even of Muslim jihad, which is 100% sedition (illegal), 100% unconstitutional, 100% criminal, and represents mass murder.

Maybe you don't realize it, but we have LAWS against these things. Has somebody instilled such looney propaganda to you that you think ALL speech is free ? EARTH TO FLOPPER: What you are saying is equivalent to 1942 Americans saying we must tolerate German Nazism and Japanese Imperialism. Got news for you. They got ZERO TOLERANCE. We KILLED 100s of thousands of them. We carpet bombed Germany. We nuked Japan. And if we hadn't done that, you wouldn't be here now, typing on your computer.

And we now need to stop ISIS, just as we stopped Japan and Germany. So what if ISIS and Al Qaeda claim this or claim that ? Do you think 1942 Americans stopped for one minute to worry about validating what anybody said about America ? YES, of course we should desecrate sacred shrines, destroy mosques, and deny true believers the opportunity to praise Allah, because to not do that, is to allow illegal sedition, unconstitutional supremacy, and give strength to those who are trying to conquer and kill us. (Reality Check)

The basic question is whether the many that attend mosques are to be punished for the crimes of the few. Your position is quite clear. I think any further discussion between us is a waste of time.

 

[Kondor3]

[ ...Look - they haven't even declared Scientology "not a religion"....so seriously now....

Scientology hasn't hijacked 4 jet airliners and killed 3,000 innocent Americans.

Neither has Islam.

Incorrect.

Militant Islam has.

Militant Islam is a branch of the larger tree.

That branch is The Enemy.

Which makes the larger tree perpetually suspect, as the source of the disease.

 

[Kondor3]

...It would be literal impossible for the courts not to consider Islam a religion when it's foundation is:..

If it is determined that Islam poses too great a risk to The Republic and its People, to allow it to continue to operate uncontrolled, then...

The overcoming of such barriers can be accomplished easily enough at law.

And, of course, defenders of Islam perpetually cite the 1.3 billion practitioners of Islam, the vast majority of which are in the Old World, not the Western Hemisphere.

To that, I counter so-the-phukk-what?

There are 2.x billion Christians, worldwide, and vast numbers of Buddhists and other sects, many of whom don't much care for them, ether.

...As far as whether a philosophy is consider a religion by the courts...

You seem to be operating under the delusion that "fair" or "consistent" is a barrier to our own courts ruling that Islam is not a religion.

Islam is a Warrior Religion - a rip-off, knock-off, plagiarizing Johnny-come-lately copycat of Judaism and Christianity, with a liberal sprinkling of Arabic hallucination and insanity tossed-in for good measure; a hybrid warrior-cult-advocacy-cultural-social-legal-militancy-conquest-spirituality pyramid scheme; hostile to Western Civilization and its Peoples.

It was founded by a bloodthirsty, womanizing pedophile; its very origins are soaked in blood and earthly greed and conquest; its dogma contains broadly-interpreted and utilized permissions to make war and commit great violence and to persecute unbelievers, and it is routinely susceptible to manipulation to kill and maim, by any street-corner mullah.

It regiments its practitioners, intrudes grotesquely into their lives, retards growth and change, has never experienced a Reformation, was intentionally fabricated to lock-out changes and to suppress dissent, reeks of intolerance, and, collectively, rarely, if ever, reciprocates, in the context of system-wide accommodation of other belief-systems, failing miserably to reciprocate the freedoms that it is granted in foreign environments.

It is alien and hostile; misogynistic and treacherous; laughable in its worldliness and in its well-deserved inferiority complex; dangerous in the hands of hordes of goat-buggerers.

It is a viper in our midst; a dagger at the throat of the United States and its People; it is a cancerous growth and dangerous in the extreme.

And, more to the point, it is increasingly and highly problematic in a security context; in short, it has become far more trouble to Western Civilization than it is worth to us.

As Militant Islamic terrorism spreads, and routinely hits our own shores, it will become a Safety issue.

And, as I, and others, have said, for generations...

When Constitutionality and Safety are at odds, Safety nearly always wins.

As will be the case, when things get bad enough to force our hand.

We need only look as far as Lincoln's suspension of habeus corpus, or FDR's internment of Japanese, or Truman's brutal breaking of the back of the railroad workers strike, to find ample precedent for setting aside Constitutional protections in a narrow and specific context, when the broader safety and well-being of The Republic and its People were at stake.

And, frankly, if it comes down to a choice between suppressing a warrior-cult, versus the safety of the American People, I choose "us" - every time.

So will most Americans, when pushed.

Your arguments are sound, and, it's entirely possible that you are a good and well-intentioned soul, merely trying to defend the wonderful principle of Freedom of Religion.

If we (the American People) are pushed hard enough, on the terrorism front, none of that will matter.

Where there's a Will, there's a Way - even within a Constitutional framework - all it takes is force-of-will and the right argument, and the deed is done; a short-term band-aid (fix) if the Supreme Court is not on-board, and a long-term state of affairs, if SCOTUS backs it. After all, the Court is comprised of Americans, and they, too, are human, and worried.

It will be a sad day, if America ends-up stripping Islam of its religious standing in this country, but, if it comes, it will have been a necessary day - one directed exclusively against one belief system, while leaving others unmolested.

Pastor Niemoller was right, in his times, and in his context...

But he was not facing an alien and hostile warrior-cult, with a large and growing and obnoxious presence in his midst, many of whose members are either dedicated-to and actively and violently working to overpower and destroy his own civilization, or who are quietly sympathetic-to or subservient-to such a vicious mindset.

It is that difference which will drive the setting aside of Islam as a religion, in an American Constitutional framework, if-and-when the time comes.

Sadly, we may be reaching a tipping point, on the path towards that day...

Few will actually and truly rejoice in their hearts and minds, if-and-when that day comes, because it will mean that our best efforts to practice our own principles failed in that narrow context despite heroic efforts...

But, given the nature and severity of the threat, it may end-up being the lesser of two evils, and we may end-up having to live with that; making hard choices that we do not want to make and that our descendants may mock and dispute with perfect 20-20 hindsight, basking in the safety we provided them.

Damned if we do... damned if we don't.

The American People, in their wisdom, and courage, will decide what is to be done, for better or worse; either way, my money's on them.

 

[Coyote]

[ ...Look - they haven't even declared Scientology "not a religion"....so seriously now....

Scientology hasn't hijacked 4 jet airliners and killed 3,000 innocent Americans.

Neither has Islam.

Incorrect.

Militant Islam has.

Militant Islam is a branch of the larger tree.

That branch is The Enemy.

Which makes the larger tree perpetually suspect, as the source of the disease.

No. Al Queda terrorists were responsible. Terrorism is a serious problem. Extremist Islamic Jihadists are one branch of the Terrorist Tree. That is the Enemy.

 

[Kondor3]

[ ...Look - they haven't even declared Scientology "not a religion"....so seriously now....

Scientology hasn't hijacked 4 jet airliners and killed 3,000 innocent Americans.

Neither has Islam.

Incorrect.

Militant Islam has.

Militant Islam is a branch of the larger tree.

That branch is The Enemy.

Which makes the larger tree perpetually suspect, as the source of the disease.

No. Al Queda terrorists were responsible. Terrorism is a serious problem. Extremist Islamic Jihadists are one branch of the Terrorist Tree. That is the Enemy.

We disagree. Profoundly.

 

[longknife]

If a Christian preacher or a Jewish Rabbi stand up in front of their congregations and preach anything political or controversial the Leftists scream to have their tax-exempt status revoked.

If an Imam declares a fatwa against someone or the USA in general - LEFTISTS SAY ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!

They preach treason and get away with it.

I agree that any mosque - or even a church - that preaches violence or treason should be shut down and those doing so arrested and tried for whatever applicable laws there are.

 

[Unkotare]

Trump also wants Muslims to be required to register with the government AS Muslims.

Finally Godwin's law can be thrown under the bus because Trump is beyond all reasonable doubt proposing Nazi policies.

And we could require them to wear a patch on there clothes so they can be easy identified for transport to concentration camps.

That would be the democrat way of doing things.

 

[Circe]

Bulldozers have crossed my mind...........

 

[Unkotare]

Right up until the moment that SCOTUS declares that Islam is not a religion......

Why do you waste your time on such self-indulgent, childish emoting?

 

[Flopper]

...It would be literal impossible for the courts not to consider Islam a religion when it's foundation is:..

If it is determined that Islam poses too great a risk to The Republic and its People, to allow it to continue to operate uncontrolled, then...

The overcoming of such barriers can be accomplished easily enough at law.

And, of course, defenders of Islam perpetually cite the 1.3 billion practitioners of Islam, the vast majority of which are in the Old World, not the Western Hemisphere.

To that, I counter so-the-phukk-what?

There are 2.x billion Christians, worldwide, and vast numbers of Buddhists and other sects, many of whom don't much care for them, ether.

...As far as whether a philosophy is consider a religion by the courts...

You seem to be operating under the delusion that "fair" or "consistent" is a barrier to our own courts ruling that Islam is not a religion.

Islam is a Warrior Religion - a rip-off, knock-off, plagiarizing Johnny-come-lately copycat of Judaism and Christianity, with a liberal sprinkling of Arabic hallucination and insanity tossed-in for good measure; a hybrid warrior-cult-advocacy-cultural-social-legal-militancy-conquest-spirituality pyramid scheme; hostile to Western Civilization and its Peoples.

It was founded by a bloodthirsty, womanizing pedophile; its very origins are soaked in blood and earthly greed and conquest; its dogma contains broadly-interpreted and utilized permissions to make war and commit great violence and to persecute unbelievers, and it is routinely susceptible to manipulation to kill and maim, by any street-corner mullah.

It regiments its practitioners, intrudes grotesquely into their lives, retards growth and change, has never experienced a Reformation, was intentionally fabricated to lock-out changes and to suppress dissent, reeks of intolerance, and, collectively, rarely, if ever, reciprocates, in the context of system-wide accommodation of other belief-systems, failing miserably to reciprocate the freedoms that it is granted in foreign environments.

It is alien and hostile; misogynistic and treacherous; laughable in its worldliness and in its well-deserved inferiority complex; dangerous in the hands of hordes of goat-buggerers.

It is a viper in our midst; a dagger at the throat of the United States and its People; it is a cancerous growth and dangerous in the extreme.

And, more to the point, it is increasingly and highly problematic in a security context; in short, it has become far more trouble to Western Civilization than it is worth to us.

As Militant Islamic terrorism spreads, and routinely hits our own shores, it will become a Safety issue.

And, as I, and others, have said, for generations...

When Constitutionality and Safety are at odds, Safety nearly always wins.

As will be the case, when things get bad enough to force our hand.

We need only look as far as Lincoln's suspension of habeus corpus, or FDR's internment of Japanese, or Truman's brutal breaking of the back of the railroad workers strike, to find ample precedent for setting aside Constitutional protections in a narrow and specific context, when the broader safety and well-being of The Republic and its People were at stake.

And, frankly, if it comes down to a choice between suppressing a warrior-cult, versus the safety of the American People, I choose "us" - every time.

So will most Americans, when pushed.

Your arguments are sound, and, it's entirely possible that you are a good and well-intentioned soul, merely trying to defend the wonderful principle of Freedom of Religion.

If we (the American People) are pushed hard enough, on the terrorism front, none of that will matter.

Where there's a Will, there's a Way - even within a Constitutional framework - all it takes is force-of-will and the right argument, and the deed is done; a short-term band-aid (fix) if the Supreme Court is not on-board, and a long-term state of affairs, if SCOTUS backs it. After all, the Court is comprised of Americans, and they, too, are human, and worried.

It will be a sad day, if America ends-up stripping Islam of its religious standing in this country, but, if it comes, it will have been a necessary day - one directed exclusively against one belief system, while leaving others unmolested.

Pastor Niemoller was right, in his times, and in his context...

But he was not facing an alien and hostile warrior-cult, with a large and growing and obnoxious presence in his midst, many of whose members are either dedicated-to and actively and violently working to overpower and destroy his own civilization, or who are quietly sympathetic-to or subservient-to such a vicious mindset.

It is that difference which will drive the setting aside of Islam as a religion, in an American Constitutional framework, if-and-when the time comes.

Sadly, we may be reaching a tipping point, on the path towards that day...

Few will actually and truly rejoice in their hearts and minds, if-and-when that day comes, because it will mean that our best efforts to practice our own principles failed in that narrow context despite heroic efforts...

But, given the nature and severity of the threat, it may end-up being the lesser of two evils, and we may end-up having to live with that; making hard choices that we do not want to make and that our descendants may mock and dispute with perfect 20-20 hindsight, basking in the safety we provided them.

Damned if we do... damned if we don't.

The American People, in their wisdom, and courage, will decide what is to be done, for better or worse; either way, my money's on them.

Islam is a religion because it meets essentially every definition of a religion. It does't matter if it's peaceful or not, it is still a religion. If you want to exclude Islam from 1st amendment protection, then you need to change the constitution and I think that is exactly what the courts will tell Trump or Congress. You simply can't take away all Muslims right to assemble and worship God because some Muslims are terrorist.

What you may not realize is that Homeland Security is very dependent on members of the Muslim communities stepping forward with information on radicalization and terrorist plots. both the CIA and the FBI have ongoing programs to recruit Muslims.

 

[bullwinkle]

Donald Trump: 'Strongly consider' shutting mosques - CNNPolitics.com

now we talkin'

...i'm onboard

I am too. It's time to demolish them and deport them along with the wetbacks. Our national security and sovereignty is in peril and we must take action.

How far back do you want to go in the deporting thingy? My antecedents fled a potato famine, but there is that IRA bunch still around. Or shall we go back to, say...Pocahontas?

 

[mamooth]

"El Duce" Rubio is taking Trump's fascism even further, declaring that the government is obligated to shut down not just mosques, but any spot where "radicals" are inspired.

Who the "radicals" are, of course, will be defined by the fascists. Unless good people don't let it happen.

"First they came for the Muslims, and I didn't say anything ..."

 

[Flopper]

"El Duce" Rubio is taking Trump's fascism even further, declaring that the government is obligated to shut down not just mosques, but any spot where "radicals" are inspired.

Who the "radicals" are, of course, will be defined by the fascists. Unless good people don't let it happen.

"First they came for the Muslims, and I didn't say anything ..."

What these idiots are proposing is cutting off the best source of information on terrorist attacks. The FBI has a network of more than 15,000 informants collecting information in Muslim communities in the US and foreign countries. The information they provide is vital to preventing terrorist attacks.

 

[Kondor3]

Right up until the moment that SCOTUS declares that Islam is not a religion......

Why do you waste your time on such self-indulgent, childish emoting?

Because it pisses you off, and, on a snowy, cold Saturday, that's reason enough?

 

[Kondor3]

...Islam is a religion...

That won't matter, if they're deemed too dangerous to be accommodated any longer.

...What you may not realize is that Homeland Security is very dependent on members of the Muslim communities stepping forward...

Then I suggest that they step-up their efforts by an order or two of magnitude, before such cooperation becomes too-little, too-late.

 

[Flopper]

...Islam is a religion...

That won't matter, if they're deemed too dangerous to be accommodated any longer.

...What you may not realize is that Homeland Security is very dependent on members of the Muslim communities stepping forward...

Then I suggest that they step-up their efforts by an order or two of magnitude, before such cooperation becomes too-little, too-late.

If they are deemed too dangerous, then they should be arrested, tried in court, and punished. Closing mosques would alienate millions of Muslims in the US who condemn terrorist acts and would make ISIS job of recruiting much easier.

 

[Unkotare]

Right up until the moment that SCOTUS declares that Islam is not a religion......

Why do you waste your time on such self-indulgent, childish emoting?

Because it pisses you off, .....

All you've evoked is pity for being such a fool.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

Why doesn't the media get all over Hillary Clinton for saying stupid sh** like she'd go after gun manufacturers?

 

[Avatar4321]

Why doesn't the media get all over Hillary Clinton for saying stupid sh** like she'd go after gun manufacturers?

Because they are in the tank for her and agree with her. But just because they are wrong on that doesn't mean trump is right for wanting to shut down a Muslim house of worship.