Trump Will Renegotiate or Withdraw from NAFTA

[georgephillip]

But what is it that Mr Fix it, says he is going to fix in NAFTA or pull us out????

Trump targets NAFTA and promises: 'I am your voice'
"On the eve of his much anticipated speech, the billionaire businessman told The New York Times he 'would pull out of NAFTA in a split second' if he could not change it, calling the 1994 continental trade accord signed by former President Bill Clinton “a disaster” for America’s manufacturing base."
I guess he will try to "fix" it before pulling out.
I wonder if he's crunched the numbers for US workers/consumers if he does leave NAFTA?

 

[georgephillip]

NAFTA is apparently one issue that Trump has been consistent on over the past three decades. I'm not sure how he will tax US corporations making products in Mexico or China for sale in the US when those products come into domestic markets, but at least he appears to be on the side of US workers which looks much better than Hillary's 20 year support for the neoliberal economy.

NAFTA at 20: One Million U.S. Jobs Lost, Higher Income Inequality

Your link:

"Such outcomes include a staggering $181 billion U.S. trade deficit with NAFTA partners Mexico and Canada and the related loss of 1 million net U.S. jobs under NAFTA, growing income inequality, displacement of more than one million Mexican campesino farmers and a doubling of desperate immigration from Mexico, and more than $360 million paid to corporations after 'investor-state' tribunal attacks on, and rollbacks of, domestic public interest policies.

"The study makes for a blood-boiling read.

"For instance, we track the specific promises made by U.S. corporations like GE, Chrysler and Caterpillar to create specific numbers of American jobs if NAFTA was approved, and reveal government data showing that instead, they fired U.S. workers and moved operations to Mexico."

Trump is more truthful on some matter than Hillary; although, that's a really low bar to base a vote on.

I suspect he will be just as loyal to the US investor class as every other president since Ike?

 

[georgephillip]

Maybe they never thought that the American people would wake up to the corruption in DC because the royal Clinton family got so fucking greedy that they started selling out this country for tens of millions of dollars in donations and 'speaking fees' and the media cant hide all that graft?

I think that was the main reason for Hillary's private email server, reduced risk of FOIA requests regarding her fundraising activities for her Foundation while serving as Secretary of State.

Personally, I always thought her biggest crime in Benghazi involved transporting arms from Libya to Syria in time for Obama's red line moment.

I don't think putting Trump and Pence in power will do much to roll back the US Empire, however.

 

[Care4all]

But what is it that Mr Fix it, says he is going to fix in NAFTA or pull us out????

Trump targets NAFTA and promises: 'I am your voice'
"On the eve of his much anticipated speech, the billionaire businessman told The New York Times he 'would pull out of NAFTA in a split second' if he could not change it, calling the 1994 continental trade accord signed by former President Bill Clinton “a disaster” for America’s manufacturing base."
I guess he will try to "fix" it before pulling out.
I wonder if he's crunched the numbers for US workers/consumers if he does leave NAFTA?

But what exactly is wrong with it? The partners are not manipulating their currency, they do not put tariffs on our goods as far as I know? So what is it, that is wrong with it, that needs to be fixed? Also, from what I have heard and read, overall with NAFTA there has not been job losses OVERALL....yes, some have lost their jobs, but others have gained jobs with the businesses that are exporting goods to them...so the overall count of job losses is zero with NAFTA....???

If we were talking about trade with China, then there is certainly a beef with their currency manipulation and tariffs they put on our goods etc...

 

[Care4all]

What in NAFTA is not a FAIR deal? Can you be specific? Do Canada and Mexico manipulate their currency? Or do they put tariffs on our goods? What is it in NAFTA that Trump is going to renegotiate?

Yes, Mexico engaged in currency manipulation, collapsing the peso within months of the deal going into force.

There are plenty of other critics of NAFTA as well for a million reasons.

Why NAFTA is Bad for the U.S. | Economy In Crisis

When we examine the details of the “free trade” agreement, it is easy to see why it has caused so much devastation. From toxic imports to the flooding of illegal immigrants, NAFTA has all but decimated the United States.

Week after week we hear about recalls of imports, including imports from Mexico and Canada. ...

Because of NAFTA, American workers are now forced to compete directly with Mexican workers who, on average, make just $3 per hour. Their American counterparts make $18 per hour. .....

We had a small trade surplus with Mexico in 1993 before signing onto NAFTA. By 2007, 14 years after signing NAFTA, that surplus turned into a $91 billion deficit with Mexico. ....

Illegal immigrants in the U.S. have increased to 12 million today from 3.9 million in 1993, accounting for an overall increase of over 300 percent. Since NAFTA was implemented, 300,000 American family farms have been put out of business. Overall, net farm incomes are down 13 percent.....

The cruel reality of NAFTA is that it does not benefit the American worker. In fact, it encourages our jobs to leave the country in pursuit of lower wage rates, non-existent environmental standards and trade without restrictions.

NAFTA was a disaster when it was passed by Congress, a disaster when it was enacted and it remains a disaster today.

so, how would the lower wage in foreign countries be addressed when renegotiating the treaty? How can this be fixed? Any ideas Jim, that would still be considered free and fair trade for all countries involved?

 

[JimBowie1958]

so, how would the lower wage in foreign countries be addressed when renegotiating the treaty? How can this be fixed? Any ideas Jim, that would still be considered free and fair trade for all countries involved?

How fair can two groups be to each other when one has all the economic advantages and the other only cheap labor?

I think that goods coming in from Mexico should have a tariff applied to them based on that particular companies low wages, substandard environmental standards and poor worker safety practices to even the field with products made here in the US.

If a widget costs less in Mexico because the company makes it with $20 per unit saved from not meeting OUR environmental, safety and labor costs, then a $20 tariff per unit should be used to remove economic advantage in damaging the environment in Mexico and abusing Mexican workers.

Of course the actual costs and how to do this is more complex, but I am certain it is plausible. IF journalists can dig these things up, then government investigators acting under the provisions of a trade treaty should be able to get to the facts as well.

What is the point of moving the pollution just across our borders and giving corporations an economic incentive to exploit and abuse Mexican laborers?

We also need to revise our own tax laws to give corporations a tax deduction for hiring American citizens, say an added 20% of American labor cost deduction to their taxable profits?

 

[charwin95]

Ah.......... The wonderful world of Trump economic plan.
About 80% of my consumables are made in China...... I've been scratching my head in last 10 months. WTH is this dude know that I don't know already? I will make it very simple.....
1. If I make my products here in US. You better be ready to pay a VERY high price...... How much do you think it cost to pay microbiologist, chemistry formulator, blood chemistry, hematologist..... sw engineers, bio medical eng. here in US? I did not even include new facilities, labs, tooling, regularities and other equipments.... THINK real hard..... This is just me one company. Just imagine this is across the board. If you think your medical bills are high right now......... THINK real hard.
To Trump supporters ............ Is this the direction you want for yourself? Are you willing to pay very high prices?
Trump economic plan are blasted all over the place by well known independent economists and cc of commerce. Have you seen anyone blasting Hillary economic plan?

Trump......... It's very simple folks believe me believe me I am your man, I am your voice, I will make you rich, I will give you jobs ................. I'm still scratching my head.

2. Acceptance speech............ Lie Lie Lie Lie.

 

[Care4all]

so, how would the lower wage in foreign countries be addressed when renegotiating the treaty? How can this be fixed? Any ideas Jim, that would still be considered free and fair trade for all countries involved?

How fair can two groups be to each other when one has all the economic advantages and the other only cheap labor?

I think that goods coming in from Mexico should have a tariff applied to them based on that particular companies low wages, substandard environmental standards and poor worker safety practices to even the field with products made here in the US.

If a widget costs less in Mexico because the company makes it with $20 per unit saved from not meeting OUR environmental, safety and labor costs, then a $20 tariff per unit should be used to remove economic advantage in damaging the environment in Mexico and abusing Mexican workers.

Of course the actual costs and how to do this is more complex, but I am certain it is plausible. IF journalists can dig these things up, then government investigators acting under the provisions of a trade treaty should be able to get to the facts as well.

What is the point of moving the pollution just across our borders and giving corporations an economic incentive to exploit and abuse Mexican laborers?

We also need to revise our own tax laws to give corporations a tax deduction for hiring American citizens, say an added 20% of American labor cost deduction to their taxable profits?

Read this....(ignore the trump slamming in the article)...

But basically I think the article is saying 40% of what Mexico exports to us, was actually made in the USA... as example, Mexico may put together some of our cars and export them to us, but 40% of the car parts were made in the USA and Mexico had to import these parts from us. And this does not include the other stuff mexico buys from us that does not get shipped back to us...

While what China exports to us, only 4% of that stuff are made from parts that they imported from us....

Anyway, China trade hurts us and jobs much much much more than Mexican trade....other than cheaper prices we all benefit from...

Read this, see if you understand it better than I thought I did....

No, Mr. Trump, Mexico is not 'killing us on trade'

 

[JimBowie1958]

so, how would the lower wage in foreign countries be addressed when renegotiating the treaty? How can this be fixed? Any ideas Jim, that would still be considered free and fair trade for all countries involved?

How fair can two groups be to each other when one has all the economic advantages and the other only cheap labor?

I think that goods coming in from Mexico should have a tariff applied to them based on that particular companies low wages, substandard environmental standards and poor worker safety practices to even the field with products made here in the US.

If a widget costs less in Mexico because the company makes it with $20 per unit saved from not meeting OUR environmental, safety and labor costs, then a $20 tariff per unit should be used to remove economic advantage in damaging the environment in Mexico and abusing Mexican workers.

Of course the actual costs and how to do this is more complex, but I am certain it is plausible. IF journalists can dig these things up, then government investigators acting under the provisions of a trade treaty should be able to get to the facts as well.

What is the point of moving the pollution just across our borders and giving corporations an economic incentive to exploit and abuse Mexican laborers?

We also need to revise our own tax laws to give corporations a tax deduction for hiring American citizens, say an added 20% of American labor cost deduction to their taxable profits?

Read this....(ignore the trump slamming in the article)...

But basically I think the article is saying 40% of what Mexico exports to us, was actually made in the USA... as example, Mexico may put together some of our cars and export them to us, but 40% of the car parts were made in the USA and Mexico had to import these parts from us. And this does not include the other stuff mexico buys from us that does not get shipped back to us...

While what China exports to us, only 4% of that stuff are made from parts that they imported from us....

Anyway, China trade hurts us and jobs much much much more than Mexican trade....other than cheaper prices we all benefit from...

Read this, see if you understand it better than I thought I did....

No, Mr. Trump, Mexico is not 'killing us on trade'

Well there is a lot of sleight of hand in the article. For example:
Trade: In 1993, before NAFTA took effect (which it did in January 1994), Mexico bought $41 billion in goods and services from the U.S. and sold $39 Billion worth to the United States. Total: $80 billion. In the first year of NAFTA, the $80 billion increased to $99 billion, a 25 percent increase.

Ten years after NAFTA started, total trade between the U.S. and Mexico was $145 billion — an increase of 55 percent. In 2003, almost twenty years after NAFTA began, total trade with Mexico was $506 billion — half a trillion dollars — which is 632 percent more than 1994.

In 2014, by contrast, the United States exported $123 billion in goods to China and imported $466 billion from China. That's a minus $343 billion imbalance in trade. In 2014, the U.S. exported $49 billion of goods to Germany and imported $123 billion for an imbalance of minus $73 billion (lots of Mercedes and BMWs).

So he compares total trade with Mexico to a break down of trade with other nations that exposes the trade imbalances with those trading 'partners', but not with Mexico. No the Mexico trade is only given as a total by him.

From the Huffington Post:
Such outcomes include a staggering $181 billion U.S. trade deficit with NAFTA partners Mexico and Canada and the related loss of 1 million net U.S. jobs under NAFTA, growing income inequality, displacement of more than one million Mexican campesino farmers and a doubling of desperate immigration from Mexico, and more than $360 million paid to corporations

Most of that deficit with our NAFTA partners is from Mexico not Canada with a /net loss of over one million jobs.

The Multinational Corporations do have their shills spreading misinformation for them, after all, it is money well spent if Americans can be lost quibbling over details and not working to defend their own Middle Class interests.

 

[georgephillip]

But what exactly is wrong with it? The partners are not manipulating their currency, they do not put tariffs on our goods as far as I know? So what is it, that is wrong with it, that needs to be fixed? Also, from what I have heard and read, overall with NAFTA there has not been job losses OVERALL....yes, some have lost their jobs, but others have gained jobs with the businesses that are exporting goods to them...so the overall count of job losses is zero with NAFTA....???

I think NAFTA has worked relatively well for the American investor class (5%-10% of all workers), but it has little to do with "free trade" and everything to do with free investment:

http://www.law.harvard.edu/programs/lwp/nafta.pdf

To understand what is meant by 'free trade' in the context of NAFTA, it is necessary to ask who is freed from what?

"NAFTA frees corporations from government regulation which would constitute a barrier to trade.

"It permits relatively unrestricted movement of money, capital, goods and services, while at the same time providing investors and corporations with extensive protection of their property rights.

"It even extends corporate property rights through the so called 'intellectual properties' provisions. Intellectual property as defined by trade agreements is not about the creative powers of intellectuals.

"Rather, it is about protecting corporate ownership and monopoly over the patenting of plants, processes, seed varieties, drugs, and software.

"The intellectual property provisions are just one example of how there is extensive protectionism in this so-called 'free trade' agreement.

"However, this protection applies only to corporations, not to workers, consumers or small farmers.

"The 'free trade' aspect of NAFTA can be found in the serious restrictions that the agreement places on a government's ability to regulate."

Millions of small farmers in Mexico were wiped out by NAFTA, and many had little recourse than to migrate to the US, which would explain why there are currently 11 million "illegal" migrants working here.