Trump's trade war with China

[cnm]

Worse for the world. Chinese control over international markets is a very bad thing for almost every nation.

From the point of view of the US, granted. From elsewhere, not so much.

From the point of view of almost the entire world. Period.

China is a bad actor atm.

You think China might start imposing arbitrary tariffs on trading partners in the name of national security?

 

[cnm]

It'd be pretty bad if the dominant economy in the world started doing stuff like that. The whole system would be under threat.

 

[cnm]

No one would be able to trust them.

 

[pknopp]

WASHINGTON/CHICAGO (Reuters) - Farm loan delinquencies rose to a record high in June at Wisconsin’s community banks, data showed on Thursday, a sign President Donald Trump’s trade conflicts with China and other countries are hitting farmers hard in a state that could be crucial for his chances of re-election in 2020.

Farm loan delinquencies surge in U.S. election battleground Wisconsin - Reuters

 

[Correll]

The fix is jobs and trade balance moving back to US.


Even if it means paying more.


And yes, that would be a win. Obviously.

Jobs? Jobs are moving to other countries. Your guy seems to be failing. Does the trade balance matter? Remember when we had a similar situation with Japan? How they doing now?

I've been asking though this whole thread. If the trade balance does not matter, then why is Xi fighting to maintain the current trade balance?


Page 39, and no one has been able to really explain that.

The answer is obvious. Tariffs are a tax. Xi wants the tax dollars. His country is full of low income people.

Tariffs go to the country that is importing, not to the exporter.


If Xi wants to put taxes on his nation's exports, I fully support him, and I would bet money that Trump would too.

Your answer makes no sense, what so ever.

Aren't you trying to get them to lower tariffs on our exports to them? What is it you think you are tryin to do?

I want "Fair trade" or mutually beneficial trade. I don't give a fuck how it happens, and truthfully, I would not believe any promises they make.

 

[Correll]

The fix is jobs and trade balance moving back to US.


Even if it means paying more.


And yes, that would be a win. Obviously.

Jobs? Jobs are moving to other countries. Your guy seems to be failing. Does the trade balance matter? Remember when we had a similar situation with Japan? How they doing now?

I've been asking though this whole thread. If the trade balance does not matter, then why is Xi fighting to maintain the current trade balance?


Page 39, and no one has been able to really explain that.

You really need to listen to this.

Yeah we tried that. It did not work out the way it was supposed to. The Chinese got a lot of our dollars, and yet do NOT spend them in our country.


We lost jobs for the steel makers, and did not get the other jobs promised.


And when we did, they went to younger immigrants who worked cheaper, not to out of work Americans.

We have the largest economy in the world and our unemployment rate is very low. What are you talking about?

The displaced workers, were supposed to be temporarily displaced, and then find new, even better jobs, in new fields to be developed or in the old jobs when those industries became more competitive.

And it did not happen. Instead our corporations and businesses and citizens and politicians adjusted to the new shitty normal.

 

[Brain357]

Jobs? Jobs are moving to other countries. Your guy seems to be failing. Does the trade balance matter? Remember when we had a similar situation with Japan? How they doing now?

I've been asking though this whole thread. If the trade balance does not matter, then why is Xi fighting to maintain the current trade balance?


Page 39, and no one has been able to really explain that.

The answer is obvious. Tariffs are a tax. Xi wants the tax dollars. His country is full of low income people.

Tariffs go to the country that is importing, not to the exporter.


If Xi wants to put taxes on his nation's exports, I fully support him, and I would bet money that Trump would too.

Your answer makes no sense, what so ever.

Aren't you trying to get them to lower tariffs on our exports to them? What is it you think you are tryin to do?

I want "Fair trade" or mutually beneficial trade. I don't give a fuck how it happens, and truthfully, I would not believe any promises they make.

Define fair trade. What do you think that is? Currently they send us all their resources for next to nothing. Seems like a good deal to me. But explain to me what it is you think you want.

 

[Correll]

American corporations have adjusted to the reality of the US being the world's bitch on trade.

You wear victimhood well.

I made a point. Instead of addressing it, you called me a name.

My point stands, and you are not only losing the debate, but a fucktard.

 

[Brain357]

Jobs? Jobs are moving to other countries. Your guy seems to be failing. Does the trade balance matter? Remember when we had a similar situation with Japan? How they doing now?

I've been asking though this whole thread. If the trade balance does not matter, then why is Xi fighting to maintain the current trade balance?


Page 39, and no one has been able to really explain that.

You really need to listen to this.

Yeah we tried that. It did not work out the way it was supposed to. The Chinese got a lot of our dollars, and yet do NOT spend them in our country.


We lost jobs for the steel makers, and did not get the other jobs promised.


And when we did, they went to younger immigrants who worked cheaper, not to out of work Americans.

We have the largest economy in the world and our unemployment rate is very low. What are you talking about?

The displaced workers, were supposed to be temporarily displaced, and then find new, even better jobs, in new fields to be developed or in the old jobs when those industries became more competitive.

And it did not happen. Instead our corporations and businesses and citizens and politicians adjusted to the new shitty normal.

Well we certainly have plenty of wealth. Why is it Chinas fault our people aren't getting paid well? It was US companies that sent the jobs away. And we have more wealth then ever. Our unemployment rate is super low. China has nothing to do with it. We have the wealth and the jobs. The wages is an internal problem.

 

[Correll]

I've been asking though this whole thread. If the trade balance does not matter, then why is Xi fighting to maintain the current trade balance?

I have not seen that to be the case. He is retaliating against arbitrary tariffs imposed by the US. The trade balance is Trump's, and your, fantasy.

Why retaliate against a tax designed to change the balance of trade, if trade balance does not matter?

 

[Brain357]

I've been asking though this whole thread. If the trade balance does not matter, then why is Xi fighting to maintain the current trade balance?

I have not seen that to be the case. He is retaliating against arbitrary tariffs imposed by the US. The trade balance is Trump's, and your, fantasy.

Why retaliate against a tax designed to change the balance of trade, if trade balance does not matter?

What does Nobel Price winning economist Milton Friedman have wrong? Sure sounds like our trade balance is good to me.

 

[Correll]

I've been asking though this whole thread. If the trade balance does not matter, then why is Xi fighting to maintain the current trade balance?


Page 39, and no one has been able to really explain that.

The answer is obvious. Tariffs are a tax. Xi wants the tax dollars. His country is full of low income people.

Tariffs go to the country that is importing, not to the exporter.


If Xi wants to put taxes on his nation's exports, I fully support him, and I would bet money that Trump would too.

Your answer makes no sense, what so ever.

Aren't you trying to get them to lower tariffs on our exports to them? What is it you think you are tryin to do?

I want "Fair trade" or mutually beneficial trade. I don't give a fuck how it happens, and truthfully, I would not believe any promises they make.

Define fair trade. What do you think that is? Currently they send us all their resources for next to nothing. Seems like a good deal to me. But explain to me what it is you think you want.

One where the trade balance is "fair".


Thought to be really "fair" we should have our turn for a massive trade surplus for the next 50 years, but that is probably asking too much.

 

[Correll]

I've been asking though this whole thread. If the trade balance does not matter, then why is Xi fighting to maintain the current trade balance?


Page 39, and no one has been able to really explain that.

You really need to listen to this.

Yeah we tried that. It did not work out the way it was supposed to. The Chinese got a lot of our dollars, and yet do NOT spend them in our country.


We lost jobs for the steel makers, and did not get the other jobs promised.


And when we did, they went to younger immigrants who worked cheaper, not to out of work Americans.

We have the largest economy in the world and our unemployment rate is very low. What are you talking about?

The displaced workers, were supposed to be temporarily displaced, and then find new, even better jobs, in new fields to be developed or in the old jobs when those industries became more competitive.

And it did not happen. Instead our corporations and businesses and citizens and politicians adjusted to the new shitty normal.

Well we certainly have plenty of wealth. Why is it Chinas fault our people aren't getting paid well? It was US companies that sent the jobs away. And we have more wealth then ever. Our unemployment rate is super low. China has nothing to do with it. We have the wealth and the jobs. The wages is an internal problem.

YOur words make no sense.


The displaced workers, were supposed to be temporarily displaced, and then find new, even better jobs, in new fields to be developed or in the old jobs when those industries became more competitive.

And it did not happen. Instead our corporations and businesses and citizens and politicians adjusted to the new shitty.


Your response is all over the place. Pick a point you want to focus on for discussion purposes.

 

[Brain357]

The answer is obvious. Tariffs are a tax. Xi wants the tax dollars. His country is full of low income people.

Tariffs go to the country that is importing, not to the exporter.


If Xi wants to put taxes on his nation's exports, I fully support him, and I would bet money that Trump would too.

Your answer makes no sense, what so ever.

Aren't you trying to get them to lower tariffs on our exports to them? What is it you think you are tryin to do?

I want "Fair trade" or mutually beneficial trade. I don't give a fuck how it happens, and truthfully, I would not believe any promises they make.

Define fair trade. What do you think that is? Currently they send us all their resources for next to nothing. Seems like a good deal to me. But explain to me what it is you think you want.

One where the trade balance is "fair".


Thought to be really "fair" we should have our turn for a massive trade surplus for the next 50 years, but that is probably asking too much.

You can't seem to answer the question. What is "fair"? I would say our balance is currently quite fair. Nobody is making anyone trade, buyers and seller seem happy. Why do we want to have a surplus? You want us sending out more resources than receiving? Japan had a trade surplus and now have had a stagnant economy for many years.

 

[Correll]

I've been asking though this whole thread. If the trade balance does not matter, then why is Xi fighting to maintain the current trade balance?

I have not seen that to be the case. He is retaliating against arbitrary tariffs imposed by the US. The trade balance is Trump's, and your, fantasy.

Why retaliate against a tax designed to change the balance of trade, if trade balance does not matter?

What does Nobel Price winning economist Milton Friedman have wrong? Sure sounds like our trade balance is good to me.

On what happened next. It did not go that way people like him said it would. As I already answered.


He might be a respected economist.


His authority does not trump historical reality.

 

[Brain357]

You really need to listen to this.

Yeah we tried that. It did not work out the way it was supposed to. The Chinese got a lot of our dollars, and yet do NOT spend them in our country.


We lost jobs for the steel makers, and did not get the other jobs promised.


And when we did, they went to younger immigrants who worked cheaper, not to out of work Americans.

We have the largest economy in the world and our unemployment rate is very low. What are you talking about?

The displaced workers, were supposed to be temporarily displaced, and then find new, even better jobs, in new fields to be developed or in the old jobs when those industries became more competitive.

And it did not happen. Instead our corporations and businesses and citizens and politicians adjusted to the new shitty normal.

Well we certainly have plenty of wealth. Why is it Chinas fault our people aren't getting paid well? It was US companies that sent the jobs away. And we have more wealth then ever. Our unemployment rate is super low. China has nothing to do with it. We have the wealth and the jobs. The wages is an internal problem.

YOur words make no sense.


The displaced workers, were supposed to be temporarily displaced, and then find new, even better jobs, in new fields to be developed or in the old jobs when those industries became more competitive.

And it did not happen. Instead our corporations and businesses and citizens and politicians adjusted to the new shitty.


Your response is all over the place. Pick a point you want to focus on for discussion purposes.

You blaming China does not make sense. Our country still has lots and lots of wealth. It was our corporations that sent the jobs away. China dictates wages in our country? It seems we have an internal problem. The wealth is here.

 

[Brain357]

I've been asking though this whole thread. If the trade balance does not matter, then why is Xi fighting to maintain the current trade balance?

I have not seen that to be the case. He is retaliating against arbitrary tariffs imposed by the US. The trade balance is Trump's, and your, fantasy.

Why retaliate against a tax designed to change the balance of trade, if trade balance does not matter?

What does Nobel Price winning economist Milton Friedman have wrong? Sure sounds like our trade balance is good to me.

On what happened next. It did not go that way people like him said it would. As I already answered.


He might be a respected economist.


His authority does not trump historical reality.

We have lots of wealth and lots of jobs. Our problem is not trade policy.

 

[Correll]

Tariffs go to the country that is importing, not to the exporter.


If Xi wants to put taxes on his nation's exports, I fully support him, and I would bet money that Trump would too.

Your answer makes no sense, what so ever.

Aren't you trying to get them to lower tariffs on our exports to them? What is it you think you are tryin to do?

I want "Fair trade" or mutually beneficial trade. I don't give a fuck how it happens, and truthfully, I would not believe any promises they make.

Define fair trade. What do you think that is? Currently they send us all their resources for next to nothing. Seems like a good deal to me. But explain to me what it is you think you want.

One where the trade balance is "fair".


Thought to be really "fair" we should have our turn for a massive trade surplus for the next 50 years, but that is probably asking too much.

You can't seem to answer the question. What is "fair"? I would say our balance is currently quite fair. Nobody is making anyone trade, buyers and seller seem happy. Why do we want to have a surplus? You want us sending out more resources than receiving? Japan had a trade surplus and now have had a stagnant economy for many years.

1. You trust that the Chinese market is open to our exports?

2. Intellectual property theft alone, is a major issue, that the American "Sellers" are not happy about. For one limited example.

3. Yes. Like Xi, I want my nation to be "Sending out more resources than receiving". Me and him, we both agree that is the better place to be in.

4. Japan has many issues. Trade balance is not one of them.

 

[Correll]

Yeah we tried that. It did not work out the way it was supposed to. The Chinese got a lot of our dollars, and yet do NOT spend them in our country.


We lost jobs for the steel makers, and did not get the other jobs promised.


And when we did, they went to younger immigrants who worked cheaper, not to out of work Americans.

We have the largest economy in the world and our unemployment rate is very low. What are you talking about?

The displaced workers, were supposed to be temporarily displaced, and then find new, even better jobs, in new fields to be developed or in the old jobs when those industries became more competitive.

And it did not happen. Instead our corporations and businesses and citizens and politicians adjusted to the new shitty normal.

Well we certainly have plenty of wealth. Why is it Chinas fault our people aren't getting paid well? It was US companies that sent the jobs away. And we have more wealth then ever. Our unemployment rate is super low. China has nothing to do with it. We have the wealth and the jobs. The wages is an internal problem.

YOur words make no sense.


The displaced workers, were supposed to be temporarily displaced, and then find new, even better jobs, in new fields to be developed or in the old jobs when those industries became more competitive.

And it did not happen. Instead our corporations and businesses and citizens and politicians adjusted to the new shitty.


Your response is all over the place. Pick a point you want to focus on for discussion purposes.

You blaming China does not make sense. ....

China has a trade policy designed to grow jobs and wealth inside their country. I respect that. That is their government, representing the interests of their people. Your talk of "blame" is irrelevant.


It is on US that we go along with them benefiting at our expense.


I want to change that. TO at least, a more equal and mutually beneficial trade. Or shut it down. Either way.

 

[Correll]

I've been asking though this whole thread. If the trade balance does not matter, then why is Xi fighting to maintain the current trade balance?

I have not seen that to be the case. He is retaliating against arbitrary tariffs imposed by the US. The trade balance is Trump's, and your, fantasy.

Why retaliate against a tax designed to change the balance of trade, if trade balance does not matter?

What does Nobel Price winning economist Milton Friedman have wrong? Sure sounds like our trade balance is good to me.

On what happened next. It did not go that way people like him said it would. As I already answered.


He might be a respected economist.


His authority does not trump historical reality.

We have lots of wealth and lots of jobs. Our problem is not trade policy.

We have generations of wage stagnation, relative to our productivity growth and previous historical trends.


Trade policy is at least part of the reason(s) for that.