Trump's trade war with China

[Correll]

1. Since the jobs did not come back already, the way they were supposed to.

2. Manufacturing has already seen improvements. And I heard in the immediate aftermath of his election, that local manufactures were FLOODED with inquires from foreign businesses looking to move production here to avoid tariffs. It is not happen, because he was not as aggressive as they feared. But it could.


3. Your assumption of a worst case scenario, ie a rapid abrupt change with no transition period, is certainly possible, and even then would be worth the long term good.


5. Not sure of the political difficulties. Hell, I don't know if it is doable at all. But my point stands. Yes, I am in favor of tariffs.

6. Your numbers games are noted and dismissed. My point was that there is a large base of support for this policy in America,and if you want to play numbers games, consider how many Americans support American jobs, but dont' support Trump because of the leftard lies you mentioned.


7. Those of you on your side of this debate, have and still are basically said, "fuck them" to those who have lost out to this policy. CNM, has admitted that the reason he supports this policy is that he hates the Americans who are the ones that lost. He sides with China because he likes them better than white working class Americans.

Your rebuttal From 1 to 7. Are just an anti Americans anti business hurting Americans. Nothing more.

My pointing out that the policy of Free Trade, did not have the promised results, and should be changed,


is not anti-American.



You are a liar and an asshole.

I am being honest with the reality. You are coming up with just philosophical and unacceptable opinions.

The end results of your wish are the sufferings of poor Americans. Loosing jobs and businesses and paying higher prices. You are an anti American.

All of that just because how much you adore an inept POTUS.

Except we are already seeing improvements in the manufacturing employment, and I have personal knowledge of inquiries from foreign businesses who were preparing to move production to US manufacturing to avoid tariffs (after Trump was elected).



So, it is a realistic policy option.


The end result would be slightly higher prices for consumers and lower profit margins for the rich, more than balanced out by improved jobs, improved wages and thus healthier families and communities.

U.S. manufacturing is in a recession. What does that mean for the rest of the country?

Watch employment fall.

Even if this is the end of this expansion cycle, the early results from Trump's policies stand as proof of soundness of the policies,


and we should continue them.

 

[Brain357]

I've answered your question several times. China needs the tax dollars. Tariffs are a tax. They tax imports because they need the tax dollars.

NO ONE IS STOPPING THEM FROM TAXING THEIR IMPORTS. YOUR ANSWER MAKES NO SENSE.


TRY AGAIN!

Then what is it you are expecting China to do?

Really open their markets to our exports, stop intellectual theft, stop artificially lowering their currency, and accept that we will use tariffs to put their exports more in line price wise with our domestic manufacturing.

So open their markets by decreasing tariffs on our exports to them? I don’t know what else you could want.

I want mutually beneficial trade, with at least somewhat balanced balance of trade.


Having a Chinese government official, stating that there are no formal tariffs on US exports to China, and then, only very small amounts of US goods are actually imported, is not what I want.


I want results. Or I dont' want to participate.

You seem to be dodging the question and living in fantasy land. Opening their markets typically mean they have no tariffs on imports from the USA. Is that what you mean?

 

[Correll]

NO ONE IS STOPPING THEM FROM TAXING THEIR IMPORTS. YOUR ANSWER MAKES NO SENSE.


TRY AGAIN!

Then what is it you are expecting China to do?

Really open their markets to our exports, stop intellectual theft, stop artificially lowering their currency, and accept that we will use tariffs to put their exports more in line price wise with our domestic manufacturing.

So open their markets by decreasing tariffs on our exports to them? I don’t know what else you could want.

I want mutually beneficial trade, with at least somewhat balanced balance of trade.


Having a Chinese government official, stating that there are no formal tariffs on US exports to China, and then, only very small amounts of US goods are actually imported, is not what I want.


I want results. Or I dont' want to participate.

You seem to be dodging the question and living in fantasy land. Opening their markets typically mean they have no tariffs on imports from the USA. Is that what you mean?

No.

I want US products to be imported and consumed in significant qualities to balance out their exports to US.


Otherwise, it is not mutually beneficial trade, and I dont' see any reason for US to participate.

 

[Brain357]

Your rebuttal From 1 to 7. Are just an anti Americans anti business hurting Americans. Nothing more.

My pointing out that the policy of Free Trade, did not have the promised results, and should be changed,


is not anti-American.



You are a liar and an asshole.

So all these things have happened and you blame free trade? Many of our companies have near monopolies, wage collusion, non competes, right to work laws, decline in unions... Internally everything has turned on workers. That's is not trades fault.

Outsourcing and the loss of domestic markets to imports, and the loss of export markets to others, are a result of trade policy.

Trade policy won’t change that everything we have done is against the worker. I’ve provided a long list of examples including studies stating they are bad for wages. Again we have the wealth and low unemployment,

Never claimed it would change everything. But especially if combined with better immigration policy, ie lower supply of labor, it will shift power from the employer to the employEE.


And that will be the beginning of changing enough of what has been "done against the worker".

And why not go after things that would really make a difference? Like non competes? Getting rid of all our near monopolies? Fight wage collusion. Get rid of right to work laws and strengthen unions? As long as those are in place no good wages will be coming.

 

[Brain357]

Your rebuttal From 1 to 7. Are just an anti Americans anti business hurting Americans. Nothing more.

My pointing out that the policy of Free Trade, did not have the promised results, and should be changed,


is not anti-American.



You are a liar and an asshole.

I am being honest with the reality. You are coming up with just philosophical and unacceptable opinions.

The end results of your wish are the sufferings of poor Americans. Loosing jobs and businesses and paying higher prices. You are an anti American.

All of that just because how much you adore an inept POTUS.

Except we are already seeing improvements in the manufacturing employment, and I have personal knowledge of inquiries from foreign businesses who were preparing to move production to US manufacturing to avoid tariffs (after Trump was elected).



So, it is a realistic policy option.


The end result would be slightly higher prices for consumers and lower profit margins for the rich, more than balanced out by improved jobs, improved wages and thus healthier families and communities.

U.S. manufacturing is in a recession. What does that mean for the rest of the country?

Watch employment fall.

Even if this is the end of this expansion cycle, the early results from Trump's policies stand as proof of soundness of the policies,


and we should continue them.

Huh? Trillion dollar deficits among all the other bad news. You aren't making sense.

 

[Brain357]

Then what is it you are expecting China to do?

Really open their markets to our exports, stop intellectual theft, stop artificially lowering their currency, and accept that we will use tariffs to put their exports more in line price wise with our domestic manufacturing.

So open their markets by decreasing tariffs on our exports to them? I don’t know what else you could want.

I want mutually beneficial trade, with at least somewhat balanced balance of trade.


Having a Chinese government official, stating that there are no formal tariffs on US exports to China, and then, only very small amounts of US goods are actually imported, is not what I want.


I want results. Or I dont' want to participate.

You seem to be dodging the question and living in fantasy land. Opening their markets typically mean they have no tariffs on imports from the USA. Is that what you mean?

No.

I want US products to be imported and consumed in significant qualities to balance out their exports to US.


Otherwise, it is not mutually beneficial trade, and I dont' see any reason for US to participate.

What in the world are they going to buy from us? You really live in fantasy land.

 

[Correll]

My pointing out that the policy of Free Trade, did not have the promised results, and should be changed,


is not anti-American.



You are a liar and an asshole.

So all these things have happened and you blame free trade? Many of our companies have near monopolies, wage collusion, non competes, right to work laws, decline in unions... Internally everything has turned on workers. That's is not trades fault.

Outsourcing and the loss of domestic markets to imports, and the loss of export markets to others, are a result of trade policy.

Trade policy won’t change that everything we have done is against the worker. I’ve provided a long list of examples including studies stating they are bad for wages. Again we have the wealth and low unemployment,

Never claimed it would change everything. But especially if combined with better immigration policy, ie lower supply of labor, it will shift power from the employer to the employEE.


And that will be the beginning of changing enough of what has been "done against the worker".

And why not go after things that would really make a difference? Like non competes? Getting rid of all our near monopolies? Fight wage collusion. Get rid of right to work laws and strengthen unions? As long as those are in place no good wages will be coming.

Except Trump did not go after those, he went after trade policy and immigration, and the little ground he gained, resulted in the best numbers for wages, (specifically the lower end) that we have had for decades.


Sooooo, your position does not seem to be borne out by recent reality.


To be clear, I am not saying that the issues you raise, could not be addressed and perhaps contribute in a meaningful fashion.


Just that your position that we should NOT do what we have been doing, seems to be based on ignoring reality.

 

[Correll]

My pointing out that the policy of Free Trade, did not have the promised results, and should be changed,


is not anti-American.



You are a liar and an asshole.

I am being honest with the reality. You are coming up with just philosophical and unacceptable opinions.

The end results of your wish are the sufferings of poor Americans. Loosing jobs and businesses and paying higher prices. You are an anti American.

All of that just because how much you adore an inept POTUS.

Except we are already seeing improvements in the manufacturing employment, and I have personal knowledge of inquiries from foreign businesses who were preparing to move production to US manufacturing to avoid tariffs (after Trump was elected).



So, it is a realistic policy option.


The end result would be slightly higher prices for consumers and lower profit margins for the rich, more than balanced out by improved jobs, improved wages and thus healthier families and communities.

U.S. manufacturing is in a recession. What does that mean for the rest of the country?

Watch employment fall.

Even if this is the end of this expansion cycle, the early results from Trump's policies stand as proof of soundness of the policies,


and we should continue them.

Huh? Trillion dollar deficits among all the other bad news. You aren't making sense.

Your pretense that you are so stupid that you "forgot" we were talking about employment numbers, is not credible.


Stop playing dishonest games.


My point stands.


Even if this is the end of this expansion cycle, the early results from Trump's policies stand as proof of soundness of the policies,


and we should continue them.

 

[Brain357]

So all these things have happened and you blame free trade? Many of our companies have near monopolies, wage collusion, non competes, right to work laws, decline in unions... Internally everything has turned on workers. That's is not trades fault.

Outsourcing and the loss of domestic markets to imports, and the loss of export markets to others, are a result of trade policy.

Trade policy won’t change that everything we have done is against the worker. I’ve provided a long list of examples including studies stating they are bad for wages. Again we have the wealth and low unemployment,

Never claimed it would change everything. But especially if combined with better immigration policy, ie lower supply of labor, it will shift power from the employer to the employEE.


And that will be the beginning of changing enough of what has been "done against the worker".

And why not go after things that would really make a difference? Like non competes? Getting rid of all our near monopolies? Fight wage collusion. Get rid of right to work laws and strengthen unions? As long as those are in place no good wages will be coming.

Except Trump did not go after those, he went after trade policy and immigration, and the little ground he gained, resulted in the best numbers for wages, (specifically the lower end) that we have had for decades.


Sooooo, your position does not seem to be borne out by recent reality.


To be clear, I am not saying that the issues you raise, could not be addressed and perhaps contribute in a meaningful fashion.


Just that your position that we should NOT do what we have been doing, seems to be based on ignoring reality.

You greatly exaggerate. Wages have been mostly stagnant except for all the min wage increases. Hence why the gains are at the bottom.

 

[Correll]

Really open their markets to our exports, stop intellectual theft, stop artificially lowering their currency, and accept that we will use tariffs to put their exports more in line price wise with our domestic manufacturing.

So open their markets by decreasing tariffs on our exports to them? I don’t know what else you could want.

I want mutually beneficial trade, with at least somewhat balanced balance of trade.


Having a Chinese government official, stating that there are no formal tariffs on US exports to China, and then, only very small amounts of US goods are actually imported, is not what I want.


I want results. Or I dont' want to participate.

You seem to be dodging the question and living in fantasy land. Opening their markets typically mean they have no tariffs on imports from the USA. Is that what you mean?

No.

I want US products to be imported and consumed in significant qualities to balance out their exports to US.


Otherwise, it is not mutually beneficial trade, and I dont' see any reason for US to participate.

What in the world are they going to buy from us? You really live in fantasy land.

What every they want.

If they CAN'T or WON'T engage in two way, mutually beneficial trade, then let's shut it down.

 

[Brain357]

I am being honest with the reality. You are coming up with just philosophical and unacceptable opinions.

The end results of your wish are the sufferings of poor Americans. Loosing jobs and businesses and paying higher prices. You are an anti American.

All of that just because how much you adore an inept POTUS.

Except we are already seeing improvements in the manufacturing employment, and I have personal knowledge of inquiries from foreign businesses who were preparing to move production to US manufacturing to avoid tariffs (after Trump was elected).



So, it is a realistic policy option.


The end result would be slightly higher prices for consumers and lower profit margins for the rich, more than balanced out by improved jobs, improved wages and thus healthier families and communities.

U.S. manufacturing is in a recession. What does that mean for the rest of the country?

Watch employment fall.

Even if this is the end of this expansion cycle, the early results from Trump's policies stand as proof of soundness of the policies,


and we should continue them.

Huh? Trillion dollar deficits among all the other bad news. You aren't making sense.

Your pretense that you are so stupid that you "forgot" we were talking about employment numbers, is not credible.


Stop playing dishonest games.


My point stands.


Even if this is the end of this expansion cycle, the early results from Trump's policies stand as proof of soundness of the policies,


and we should continue them.

So unemployment? Need I remind you it was trending that way under Obama with much smaller deficits? There is no visible bump from trump policy.

 

[Brain357]

So open their markets by decreasing tariffs on our exports to them? I don’t know what else you could want.

I want mutually beneficial trade, with at least somewhat balanced balance of trade.


Having a Chinese government official, stating that there are no formal tariffs on US exports to China, and then, only very small amounts of US goods are actually imported, is not what I want.


I want results. Or I dont' want to participate.

You seem to be dodging the question and living in fantasy land. Opening their markets typically mean they have no tariffs on imports from the USA. Is that what you mean?

No.

I want US products to be imported and consumed in significant qualities to balance out their exports to US.


Otherwise, it is not mutually beneficial trade, and I dont' see any reason for US to participate.

What in the world are they going to buy from us? You really live in fantasy land.

What every they want.

If they CAN'T or WON'T engage in two way, mutually beneficial trade, then let's shut it down.

That would be a great way to hurt our economy. So Germany benefits from all the China's cheap resources, but we don't? Way to give the advantage to everyone else. The Soviet Union tried to do everything alone, it led to an horrible economy.

 

[Correll]

Outsourcing and the loss of domestic markets to imports, and the loss of export markets to others, are a result of trade policy.

Trade policy won’t change that everything we have done is against the worker. I’ve provided a long list of examples including studies stating they are bad for wages. Again we have the wealth and low unemployment,

Never claimed it would change everything. But especially if combined with better immigration policy, ie lower supply of labor, it will shift power from the employer to the employEE.


And that will be the beginning of changing enough of what has been "done against the worker".

And why not go after things that would really make a difference? Like non competes? Getting rid of all our near monopolies? Fight wage collusion. Get rid of right to work laws and strengthen unions? As long as those are in place no good wages will be coming.

Except Trump did not go after those, he went after trade policy and immigration, and the little ground he gained, resulted in the best numbers for wages, (specifically the lower end) that we have had for decades.


Sooooo, your position does not seem to be borne out by recent reality.


To be clear, I am not saying that the issues you raise, could not be addressed and perhaps contribute in a meaningful fashion.


Just that your position that we should NOT do what we have been doing, seems to be based on ignoring reality.

You greatly exaggerate. Wages have been mostly stagnant except for all the min wage increases. Hence why the gains are at the bottom.

The numbers I have seen say otherwise.

But thank you for admitting that until now, they have been stagnate.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Except we are already seeing improvements in the manufacturing employment, and I have personal knowledge of inquiries from foreign businesses who were preparing to move production to US manufacturing to avoid tariffs (after Trump was elected).



So, it is a realistic policy option.


The end result would be slightly higher prices for consumers and lower profit margins for the rich, more than balanced out by improved jobs, improved wages and thus healthier families and communities.

U.S. manufacturing is in a recession. What does that mean for the rest of the country?

Watch employment fall.

Even if this is the end of this expansion cycle, the early results from Trump's policies stand as proof of soundness of the policies,


and we should continue them.

Huh? Trillion dollar deficits among all the other bad news. You aren't making sense.

Your pretense that you are so stupid that you "forgot" we were talking about employment numbers, is not credible.


Stop playing dishonest games.


My point stands.


Even if this is the end of this expansion cycle, the early results from Trump's policies stand as proof of soundness of the policies,


and we should continue them.

So unemployment? Need I remind you it was trending that way under Obama with much smaller deficits? There is no visible bump from trump policy.

The economy is prospering under Trump's economic policies and while it did recover from the depths of the recession while Obama was in office, Obama had no economic policies, so he was simply there while the economy recovered.

 

[pknopp]

Then what is it you are expecting China to do?

Really open their markets to our exports, stop intellectual theft, stop artificially lowering their currency, and accept that we will use tariffs to put their exports more in line price wise with our domestic manufacturing.

So open their markets by decreasing tariffs on our exports to them? I don’t know what else you could want.

I want mutually beneficial trade, with at least somewhat balanced balance of trade.


Having a Chinese government official, stating that there are no formal tariffs on US exports to China, and then, only very small amounts of US goods are actually imported, is not what I want.


I want results. Or I dont' want to participate.

You seem to be dodging the question and living in fantasy land. Opening their markets typically mean they have no tariffs on imports from the USA. Is that what you mean?

No.

I want US products to be imported and consumed in significant qualities to balance out their exports to US.

Impossible.

 

[Correll]

I want mutually beneficial trade, with at least somewhat balanced balance of trade.


Having a Chinese government official, stating that there are no formal tariffs on US exports to China, and then, only very small amounts of US goods are actually imported, is not what I want.


I want results. Or I dont' want to participate.

You seem to be dodging the question and living in fantasy land. Opening their markets typically mean they have no tariffs on imports from the USA. Is that what you mean?

No.

I want US products to be imported and consumed in significant qualities to balance out their exports to US.


Otherwise, it is not mutually beneficial trade, and I dont' see any reason for US to participate.

What in the world are they going to buy from us? You really live in fantasy land.

What every they want.

If they CAN'T or WON'T engage in two way, mutually beneficial trade, then let's shut it down.

That would be a great way to hurt our economy. So Germany benefits from all the China's cheap resources, but we don't? Way to give the advantage to everyone else. The Soviet Union tried to do everything alone, it led to an horrible economy.

If Germany wants to send China money, and not have China send them money, they are welcome to.

 

[Brain357]

Trade policy won’t change that everything we have done is against the worker. I’ve provided a long list of examples including studies stating they are bad for wages. Again we have the wealth and low unemployment,

Never claimed it would change everything. But especially if combined with better immigration policy, ie lower supply of labor, it will shift power from the employer to the employEE.


And that will be the beginning of changing enough of what has been "done against the worker".

And why not go after things that would really make a difference? Like non competes? Getting rid of all our near monopolies? Fight wage collusion. Get rid of right to work laws and strengthen unions? As long as those are in place no good wages will be coming.

Except Trump did not go after those, he went after trade policy and immigration, and the little ground he gained, resulted in the best numbers for wages, (specifically the lower end) that we have had for decades.


Sooooo, your position does not seem to be borne out by recent reality.


To be clear, I am not saying that the issues you raise, could not be addressed and perhaps contribute in a meaningful fashion.


Just that your position that we should NOT do what we have been doing, seems to be based on ignoring reality.

You greatly exaggerate. Wages have been mostly stagnant except for all the min wage increases. Hence why the gains are at the bottom.

The numbers I have seen say otherwise.

But thank you for admitting that until now, they have been stagnate.

They are showing a little life after several min wage increases. Those aren't trump policy.

 

[Brain357]

U.S. manufacturing is in a recession. What does that mean for the rest of the country?

Watch employment fall.

Even if this is the end of this expansion cycle, the early results from Trump's policies stand as proof of soundness of the policies,


and we should continue them.

Huh? Trillion dollar deficits among all the other bad news. You aren't making sense.

Your pretense that you are so stupid that you "forgot" we were talking about employment numbers, is not credible.


Stop playing dishonest games.


My point stands.


Even if this is the end of this expansion cycle, the early results from Trump's policies stand as proof of soundness of the policies,


and we should continue them.

So unemployment? Need I remind you it was trending that way under Obama with much smaller deficits? There is no visible bump from trump policy.

The economy is prospering under Trump's economic policies and while it did recover from the depths of the recession while Obama was in office, Obama had no economic policies, so he was simply there while the economy recovered.

Leaving the economy alone is often best.

 

[Brain357]

You seem to be dodging the question and living in fantasy land. Opening their markets typically mean they have no tariffs on imports from the USA. Is that what you mean?

No.

I want US products to be imported and consumed in significant qualities to balance out their exports to US.


Otherwise, it is not mutually beneficial trade, and I dont' see any reason for US to participate.

What in the world are they going to buy from us? You really live in fantasy land.

What every they want.

If they CAN'T or WON'T engage in two way, mutually beneficial trade, then let's shut it down.

That would be a great way to hurt our economy. So Germany benefits from all the China's cheap resources, but we don't? Way to give the advantage to everyone else. The Soviet Union tried to do everything alone, it led to an horrible economy.

If Germany wants to send China money, and not have China send them money, they are welcome to.

What economist supports your crazy ideas? I don't think even trump would ever suggest what you are. Please link to anyone credible who thinks we should drop all trade with China.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

You seem to be dodging the question and living in fantasy land. Opening their markets typically mean they have no tariffs on imports from the USA. Is that what you mean?

No.

I want US products to be imported and consumed in significant qualities to balance out their exports to US.


Otherwise, it is not mutually beneficial trade, and I dont' see any reason for US to participate.

What in the world are they going to buy from us? You really live in fantasy land.

What every they want.

If they CAN'T or WON'T engage in two way, mutually beneficial trade, then let's shut it down.

That would be a great way to hurt our economy. So Germany benefits from all the China's cheap resources, but we don't? Way to give the advantage to everyone else. The Soviet Union tried to do everything alone, it led to an horrible economy.

If Germany wants to send China money, and not have China send them money, they are welcome to.

Why does commerce confuse you so very much.

We send them money, they send us stuff...that is called commerce.

Does your grocery store ever give you money?

Does your gas station every give you money?

Does any place you ever give money to give you money back or just stuff?