Trump's trade war with China

[pknopp]

You seem to be dodging the question and living in fantasy land. Opening their markets typically mean they have no tariffs on imports from the USA. Is that what you mean?

No.

I want US products to be imported and consumed in significant qualities to balance out their exports to US.

Impossible.

Then why are we engaging in large scale trade, if anything resembling even a FUCKING TIE, is not even an option?

Because so much of our production moved there .

It is impossible because the people of China do not yet have sufficient wealth to much of what is made here. Our best way to narrow the deficit was our Ag, and now Trump has fucked that up.

Yes, but if manufacturing hadn't moved there, we would import far less also.

Not sure what people expect China to do, start taking boat loads of 50k F150's?

 

[pknopp]

You seem to be dodging the question and living in fantasy land. Opening their markets typically mean they have no tariffs on imports from the USA. Is that what you mean?

No.

I want US products to be imported and consumed in significant qualities to balance out their exports to US.

Impossible.

Then why are we engaging in large scale trade, if anything resembling even a FUCKING TIE, is not even an option?

Because so much of our production moved there .

That is not a reason to do it, but a reason to stop doing it.

Meaningless reply.

 

[pknopp]

No.

I want US products to be imported and consumed in significant qualities to balance out their exports to US.

Impossible.

Then why are we engaging in large scale trade, if anything resembling even a FUCKING TIE, is not even an option?

Because so much of our production moved there .

It is impossible because the people of China do not yet have sufficient wealth to much of what is made here. Our best way to narrow the deficit was our Ag, and now Trump has fucked that up.

So, the problem is not that we give them hundreds of billions of dollars a year, but that we don't give them trillions a year?


Yeah, I can see why you did not open with that argument.

That isn't what was said. What was said is that China can not afford what we are selling.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

So, the problem is not that we give them hundreds of billions of dollars a year, but that we don't give them trillions a year?


Yeah, I can see why you did not open with that argument.

If only that was even close to what I said. Shit dude, you have given up all pretense of being honest.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Impossible.

Then why are we engaging in large scale trade, if anything resembling even a FUCKING TIE, is not even an option?

Because so much of our production moved there .

It is impossible because the people of China do not yet have sufficient wealth to much of what is made here. Our best way to narrow the deficit was our Ag, and now Trump has fucked that up.

So, the problem is not that we give them hundreds of billions of dollars a year, but that we don't give them trillions a year?


Yeah, I can see why you did not open with that argument.

That isn't what was said. What was said is that China can not afford what we are selling.

He knows that, but his anger is making him even more dishonest

 

[Brain357]

So open their markets by decreasing tariffs on our exports to them? I don’t know what else you could want.

I want mutually beneficial trade, with at least somewhat balanced balance of trade.


Having a Chinese government official, stating that there are no formal tariffs on US exports to China, and then, only very small amounts of US goods are actually imported, is not what I want.


I want results. Or I dont' want to participate.

You seem to be dodging the question and living in fantasy land. Opening their markets typically mean they have no tariffs on imports from the USA. Is that what you mean?

No.

I want US products to be imported and consumed in significant qualities to balance out their exports to US.

Impossible.

Then why are we engaging in large scale trade, if anything resembling even a FUCKING TIE, is not even an option?

Because we want all their resources for really cheap.

 

[Brain357]

And why not go after things that would really make a difference? Like non competes? Getting rid of all our near monopolies? Fight wage collusion. Get rid of right to work laws and strengthen unions? As long as those are in place no good wages will be coming.

Except Trump did not go after those, he went after trade policy and immigration, and the little ground he gained, resulted in the best numbers for wages, (specifically the lower end) that we have had for decades.


Sooooo, your position does not seem to be borne out by recent reality.


To be clear, I am not saying that the issues you raise, could not be addressed and perhaps contribute in a meaningful fashion.


Just that your position that we should NOT do what we have been doing, seems to be based on ignoring reality.

You greatly exaggerate. Wages have been mostly stagnant except for all the min wage increases. Hence why the gains are at the bottom.

The numbers I have seen say otherwise.

But thank you for admitting that until now, they have been stagnate.

They are showing a little life after several min wage increases. Those aren't trump policy.

The numbers I have seen show more rise than the min wages increases call for, and they are not limited to the states with those increases.

So, your claim seems to just be wrong.

The numbers I have seen strongly suggest the states with the most increases had min wages increases.

 

[Brain357]

What in the world are they going to buy from us? You really live in fantasy land.

What every they want.

If they CAN'T or WON'T engage in two way, mutually beneficial trade, then let's shut it down.

That would be a great way to hurt our economy. So Germany benefits from all the China's cheap resources, but we don't? Way to give the advantage to everyone else. The Soviet Union tried to do everything alone, it led to an horrible economy.

If Germany wants to send China money, and not have China send them money, they are welcome to.

What economist supports your crazy ideas? I don't think even trump would ever suggest what you are. Please link to anyone credible who thinks we should drop all trade with China.

The economists were shown to be wrong, by actual events.

So nobody supports your crazy ideas?

 

[danielpalos]

The House should consider wartime tax rates for alleged wars.

Trump's already given me my tax hike bc I need a new lawn mower and weed eater for next year, but thanks just the same. LOL And his bs income tax cut actually raised my taxes too.

Sorry, this is not about ideology but capitalism. Do we subscribe to it or not?

Only what we Pay for should have Standing as (extra Constitutional) law.

Tax cut economics means our alleged wars cannot be serious.

Only wartime tax rates should enable government solutions the right wing fantasizes about now.

Bigger central gov't and tax hike economics are not the answer, Comrade DP.

“If we want to beat Donald Trump and achieve big progressive goals, socialism is not the answer,” - former Dem 2020 hopeful John Hickenlooper whose comment was roundly booed by the idiot Democrats in attendance.

neither is huge government spending with tax cut economics, right winger.

Now you're getting the picture. It's time to cut big, greasy, incompetent central gov't power and spending, Comrade DP, but as that is antithetical to every mindless socialist's inculcation, the very thought of doing so gives you seizures.

Government solves all problems for the right wing.

 

[Correll]

No.

I want US products to be imported and consumed in significant qualities to balance out their exports to US.

Impossible.

Then why are we engaging in large scale trade, if anything resembling even a FUCKING TIE, is not even an option?

Because so much of our production moved there .

It is impossible because the people of China do not yet have sufficient wealth to much of what is made here. Our best way to narrow the deficit was our Ag, and now Trump has fucked that up.

Yes, but if manufacturing hadn't moved there, we would import far less also.

Not sure what people expect China to do, start taking boat loads of 50k F150's?

There is a lot of money in China now. They are not all rice farmers.

 

[Correll]

No.

I want US products to be imported and consumed in significant qualities to balance out their exports to US.

Impossible.

Then why are we engaging in large scale trade, if anything resembling even a FUCKING TIE, is not even an option?

Because so much of our production moved there .

That is not a reason to do it, but a reason to stop doing it.

Meaningless reply.

The goal is mutually beneficial trade. Your position is that China is too poor to provide that to US. That this can only be one sided.


Then why did we even do it in the first place, and why should we continue?


(And just to not waste time, if your answer is that someday, down the line, they might have enough of our money to be less one sided in the trade, that is not good enough. ADDITIONAL DECADES of our workers being fucked, so that maybe someday they might be fucked less, is not a good reason.)

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Impossible.

Then why are we engaging in large scale trade, if anything resembling even a FUCKING TIE, is not even an option?

Because so much of our production moved there .

It is impossible because the people of China do not yet have sufficient wealth to much of what is made here. Our best way to narrow the deficit was our Ag, and now Trump has fucked that up.

Yes, but if manufacturing hadn't moved there, we would import far less also.

Not sure what people expect China to do, start taking boat loads of 50k F150's?

There is a lot of money in China now. They are not all rice farmers.

Wealth per capita in China does not even make the top 35 in the world.

China is under the word average in wealth per person.

It is getting better just like Japan did, but it takes time with that many people.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Impossible.

Then why are we engaging in large scale trade, if anything resembling even a FUCKING TIE, is not even an option?

Because so much of our production moved there .

That is not a reason to do it, but a reason to stop doing it.

Meaningless reply.

The goal is mutually beneficial trade. Your position is that China is too poor to provide that to US. That this can only be one sided.


Then why did we even do it in the first place, and why should we continue?


(And just to not waste time, if your answer is that someday, down the line, they might have enough of our money to be less one sided in the trade, that is not good enough. ADDITIONAL DECADES of our workers being fucked, so that maybe someday they might be fucked less, is not a good reason.)

Because we benefit by having their cheap labor make thinks for us. Why is this so confusing for you?

 

[Correll]

Impossible.

Then why are we engaging in large scale trade, if anything resembling even a FUCKING TIE, is not even an option?

Because so much of our production moved there .

It is impossible because the people of China do not yet have sufficient wealth to much of what is made here. Our best way to narrow the deficit was our Ag, and now Trump has fucked that up.

So, the problem is not that we give them hundreds of billions of dollars a year, but that we don't give them trillions a year?


Yeah, I can see why you did not open with that argument.

That isn't what was said. What was said is that China can not afford what we are selling.

Actually, my point tied into what his clip of Milton Friedman said. Friedman, made the related point that we send them money and then they can send it back,


except that didn't happen, and is not happening.

 

[Correll]

So, the problem is not that we give them hundreds of billions of dollars a year, but that we don't give them trillions a year?


Yeah, I can see why you did not open with that argument.

If only that was even close to what I said. Shit dude, you have given up all pretense of being honest.

Did you watch the clip of Friedman you posted? I thought you were building along side that. That seemed to be what you were doing.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

So, the problem is not that we give them hundreds of billions of dollars a year, but that we don't give them trillions a year?


Yeah, I can see why you did not open with that argument.

If only that was even close to what I said. Shit dude, you have given up all pretense of being honest.

Did you watch the clip of Friedman you posted? I thought you were building along side that. That seemed to be what you were doing.

I did not post a video

 

[Correll]

I want mutually beneficial trade, with at least somewhat balanced balance of trade.


Having a Chinese government official, stating that there are no formal tariffs on US exports to China, and then, only very small amounts of US goods are actually imported, is not what I want.


I want results. Or I dont' want to participate.

You seem to be dodging the question and living in fantasy land. Opening their markets typically mean they have no tariffs on imports from the USA. Is that what you mean?

No.

I want US products to be imported and consumed in significant qualities to balance out their exports to US.

Impossible.

Then why are we engaging in large scale trade, if anything resembling even a FUCKING TIE, is not even an option?

Because we want all their resources for really cheap.

We are not mostly buying cheap resources, but finished products or parts of products, and the money spend on making them, is put into their economy.

 

[Correll]

Except Trump did not go after those, he went after trade policy and immigration, and the little ground he gained, resulted in the best numbers for wages, (specifically the lower end) that we have had for decades.


Sooooo, your position does not seem to be borne out by recent reality.


To be clear, I am not saying that the issues you raise, could not be addressed and perhaps contribute in a meaningful fashion.


Just that your position that we should NOT do what we have been doing, seems to be based on ignoring reality.

You greatly exaggerate. Wages have been mostly stagnant except for all the min wage increases. Hence why the gains are at the bottom.

The numbers I have seen say otherwise.

But thank you for admitting that until now, they have been stagnate.

They are showing a little life after several min wage increases. Those aren't trump policy.

The numbers I have seen show more rise than the min wages increases call for, and they are not limited to the states with those increases.

So, your claim seems to just be wrong.

The numbers I have seen strongly suggest the states with the most increases had min wages increases.

Really? Could you show me those?

 

[Correll]

What every they want.

If they CAN'T or WON'T engage in two way, mutually beneficial trade, then let's shut it down.

That would be a great way to hurt our economy. So Germany benefits from all the China's cheap resources, but we don't? Way to give the advantage to everyone else. The Soviet Union tried to do everything alone, it led to an horrible economy.

If Germany wants to send China money, and not have China send them money, they are welcome to.

What economist supports your crazy ideas? I don't think even trump would ever suggest what you are. Please link to anyone credible who thinks we should drop all trade with China.

The economists were shown to be wrong, by actual events.

So nobody supports your crazy ideas?

You going to address my point, that events have demonstrated those economists to be wrong?

 

[pknopp]

Impossible.

Then why are we engaging in large scale trade, if anything resembling even a FUCKING TIE, is not even an option?

Because so much of our production moved there .

It is impossible because the people of China do not yet have sufficient wealth to much of what is made here. Our best way to narrow the deficit was our Ag, and now Trump has fucked that up.

Yes, but if manufacturing hadn't moved there, we would import far less also.

Not sure what people expect China to do, start taking boat loads of 50k F150's?

There is a lot of money in China now. They are not all rice farmers.

There is more money than before but still not the kind of money that is going to make importing items from here viable. If we want that to happen we have to quit attacking their ability to grow.