TULIP (God calls some to atheism)

[Hollie]

There are many valid reasons for choosing not to believe in religion. Learning, knowledge, maturity, among them. I have to note that overwhelmingly, believers don’t make considered choices about their religious belief. Their belief is merely an acceptance of the cultural, societal and familial gods of convenience. Let's be honest. Religions don’t coerce their adherents via promises of free thinking and individualistic expression, they use fear. I have no reason to believe I’m going to hell for not obeying a religious doctrine. The concept only derives from various religious texts and tales and fables. These tales are derived to invoke fear. Fear is a powerful motivational tool. What better way for an elite ruling class to coerce conformance from the toiling masses than to threaten them with such things as burning flesh, eternal damnation and eternal pain.

I wasn't talking about believing in religion, whatever that means, but apprehending the reality of God's existence. There really is no valid reason to believe that God doesn't exist. There is no valid explanation for anything at all sans God's existence.

To suggest you apprehend some reality of a supernatural entity that you inherited from your familial, cultural background is your subjective opinion. Sans a defendable "General Theory of Supernatural Gods" and sans some testable demonstration of your theory, you're just another voice in the ''my gods are the real gods'', chorus.
As we see with regularity, interpretation of these ancient tales and fables is sans objective reasoning and open to the whims of the interpreter.

 

[Hollie]

Grin. I have fears? Yes, some. None connected to angry gods, though.

As there are no angry gods, you shall remain fearless on that account.

Fearless, yes. Watchful in the event you folks become as convinced in your gods as the more excitable Moslems are about their gods.

 

[Hollie]

I have no reason believe anyone is going to some place called ''hell''. The threat of going to hell is a manipulative tool of religion to coerce behavior.

I wouldn't know. In my life time I have only heard three homilies on hell. They were about separation from God for those who wish this separation.

Strange, that. I wonder where the heaven or hell bargain came from?

 

[BreezeWood]

Of course. The themes and the lessons. The reason discussions of the Great Flood are so frustrating is that people want to muse about water and far away animals. Oh. And why God killed babies. I despair that our literary skills are vanishing and the knowledge our ancestors tried so hard to pass onto about God is dissipating.

I encourage you not to despair as entropy is an inescapable imperative that in this fallen world entails the intellectual and spiritual as well. God is bringing things to a close, to that overwhelming conclusion. That conclusion is the end of evil and the beginning of full disclosure. Ultimately, life is about one thing: exploring the reaches of God's mind while enveloped in a love that surpasses all understanding, and the glorious journey never ends.

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Of course. The themes and the lessons. The reason discussions of the Great Flood are so frustrating is that people want to muse about water and far away animals.

.
the "want" as described being instilled in the 4th century was for that very purpose, to undermine the cataclysmic events relevance and absolute contradiction against their new religion of christianity. the religion of servitude over resolve.
.
.

I encourage you not to despair as entropy is an inescapable imperative that in this fallen world entails the intellectual and spiritual as well. God is bringing things to a close, to that overwhelming conclusion. That conclusion is the end of evil and the beginning of full disclosure.

.
that conclusion could not be any further from reality than a beginning to time.

yes, that does seem the case for you - spiritual entropy.

the catastrophic event was the precursor for what was already prescribed as the means for "bringing things to a close" by the culmination of the necessary triumph, individually and collectively for a final judgement to be rendered not of their doing but that of humanity and all other beings for the purpose of their admission to the Everlasting and the extenuation of their spiritual existence.

 

[Meriweather]

Fearless, yes. Watchful in the event you folks become as convinced in your gods as the more excitable Moslems are about their gods.

How many Muslims do you know personally? I know several and they do not fit your description.

 

[Meriweather]

Strange, that. I wonder where the heaven or hell bargain came from?

My personal experience is from you. Where did you get it?

 

[BreezeWood]

Sharing experiences is fine if that’s where it ended. But, I have to point out that religions tend to have this need to share their experiences at the business end of force and coercion. The choices made by adherents to your belief system and the belief system of adherents to competing religions can affect me on an ongoing basis. Since I am not an adherent to any of these religions, but to some extent must cope with them, I certainly think this gives me solid reasons to address the veracity of your claims.

So, you are terrified of religion. When was your last experience of being forced and coerced? Which religion did this to you?

.

So, you are terrified of religion. When was your last experience of being forced and coerced? Which religion did this to you?

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really, are you that deceived ... or the prevaricator.
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there is not a century that either of the desert religions are not at the forefront of persecution and victimization of the innocent. to this day.

 

[Ringtone]

Of course. The themes and the lessons. The reason discussions of the Great Flood are so frustrating is that people want to muse about water and far away animals. Oh. And why God killed babies. I despair that our literary skills are vanishing and the knowledge our ancestors tried so hard to pass onto about God is dissipating.

I encourage you not to despair as entropy is an inescapable imperative that in this fallen world entails the intellectual and spiritual as well. God is bringing things to a close, to that overwhelming conclusion. That conclusion is the end of evil and the beginning of full disclosure. Ultimately, life is about one thing: exploring the reaches of God's mind while enveloped in a love that surpasses all understanding, and the glorious journey never ends.

.

Of course. The themes and the lessons. The reason discussions of the Great Flood are so frustrating is that people want to muse about water and far away animals.

.
the "want" as described being instilled in the 4th century was for that very purpose, to undermine the cataclysmic events relevance and absolute contradiction against their new religion of christianity. the religion of servitude over resolve.
.
.

I encourage you not to despair as entropy is an inescapable imperative that in this fallen world entails the intellectual and spiritual as well. God is bringing things to a close, to that overwhelming conclusion. That conclusion is the end of evil and the beginning of full disclosure.

.
that conclusion could not be any further from reality than a beginning to time.

yes, that does seem the case for you - spiritual entropy.

the catastrophic event was the precursor for what was already prescribed as the means for "bringing things to a close" by the culmination of the necessary triumph, individually and collectively for a final judgement to be rendered not of their doing but that of humanity and all other beings for the purpose of their admission to the Everlasting and the extenuation of their spiritual existence.

In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen

 

[Meriweather]

There are many valid reasons for choosing not to believe in religion.

I wanted to get get back to this. Obviously we are from very different backgrounds. I was born into a family that included atheists; I married an atheist from a family of atheists. Not once did I hear from any atheist that they needed to be "watchful". They were never anything but supportive of those who believed. And never did we who believe feel any need to talk to them about the dangers of hell because...they are all very good, even excellent people.

This being so, I am curious how you got to be so suspicious of people of faith, and how/why the need to sneer at those who believe developed. My extended family includes atheists, Buddhists, Judaism, Christians of several denominations. There has never been a problem, and yes, we discuss religion a lot. No one feels oppressed. No one feels superior--we are simply family with varying beliefs, and all of us seemed to be born knowing how to support our own beliefs without any need to sneer or tear down the beliefs (or non-beliefs) of anyone else. No one feels threatened by me; I do not feel threatened by anyone else. I do not fear anyone else, I do not fear for anyone else.

Therefore running into someone who does not respect someone else's holy ground or sacred place is foreign to me. (For example, threatening an atheist with hell is not respectful of their holy ground/sacred place. Nor, in a discussion with Jews, Muslims, Christians, is it respectful have an "in your face" attitude by asserting multiple gods when one knows the belief is One.

I get you are angry with religion and people who believe. What I don't understand is why, and why the need to make sure everyone is aware of your anger. Why not talk about being atheist and why that is the best path for you.

 

[Hollie]

Fearless, yes. Watchful in the event you folks become as convinced in your gods as the more excitable Moslems are about their gods.

How many Muslims do you know personally? I know several and they do not fit your description.

I know several and they do fit my description.

 

[Hollie]

Strange, that. I wonder where the heaven or hell bargain came from?

My personal experience is from you. Where did you get it?

You never heard of heaven or hell being themes in Christianity?

 

[Hollie]

There are many valid reasons for choosing not to believe in religion.

I wanted to get get back to this. Obviously we are from very different backgrounds. I was born into a family that included atheists; I married an atheist from a family of atheists. Not once did I hear from any atheist that they needed to be "watchful". They were never anything but supportive of those who believed. And never did we who believe feel any need to talk to them about the dangers of hell because...they are all very good, even excellent people.

This being so, I am curious how you got to be so suspicious of people of faith, and how/why the need to sneer at those who believe developed. My extended family includes atheists, Buddhists, Judaism, Christians of several denominations. There has never been a problem, and yes, we discuss religion a lot. No one feels oppressed. No one feels superior--we are simply family with varying beliefs, and all of us seemed to be born knowing how to support our own beliefs without any need to sneer or tear down the beliefs (or non-beliefs) of anyone else. No one feels threatened by me; I do not feel threatened by anyone else. I do not fear anyone else, I do not fear for anyone else.

Therefore running into someone who does not respect someone else's holy ground or sacred place is foreign to me. (For example, threatening an atheist with hell is not respectful of their holy ground/sacred place. Nor, in a discussion with Jews, Muslims, Christians, is it respectful have an "in your face" attitude by asserting multiple gods when one knows the belief is One.

I get you are angry with religion and people who believe. What I don't understand is why, and why the need to make sure everyone is aware of your anger. Why not talk about being atheist and why that is the best path for you.

I wasn’t aware that atheists have holy ground or sacred places.

Doesn’t Christianity represent a triune god? While Christians may insist there is only one god, that could be disrespectful of those who believe in many gods.

On the other hand, while you may be angry with people who don’t believe as you do, there is a clear argument to be made for others reaching a conclusion that supernaturalism lacks reason and rationality.

 

[Meriweather]

You never heard of heaven or hell being themes in Christianity?

Christianity is about electing to enter the Kingdom of God (begins in this life, extends to the next). Hell is electing to deliberately reject God and to remain separated from Him. (Also begins in this life and extends to the next). I was taught this applies to Christians--those who have known God and His ways and then reject both. It does not apply to those who never chose Christianity to begin with. They are in the hands of a loving God, though they, too, will have a chance to reject God if that is their desire.

The majority of Christians are intent in remaining within the Kingdom of God in this life; heaven will take care of itself. It is a place of many dwelling places, and all are welcome.

 

[Meriweather]

I wasn’t aware that atheists have holy ground or sacred places.

You don't respect your choice? You have no wish for anyone else to respect or understand your choice?

 

[Meriweather]

Doesn’t Christianity represent a triune god? While Christians may insist there is only one god, that could be disrespectful of those who believe in many gods.

Not when you are discussing God with a Christian, Jew, or Muslim. The times I have discussed Hinduism with a person of that faith, it is respectful to reference Gods, which I usually have done by name as well. In this particular forum I have yet to meet up with anyone of the Hindu faith. I don't recall any threads discussing the Hindu faith.

 

[Meriweather]

On the other hand, while you may be angry with people who don’t believe as you do, there is a clear argument to be made for others reaching a conclusion that supernaturalism lacks reason and rationality.

That's just it. I am not angry--no reason for me to be. I am curious as to your demeaning manner towards those who believe.

 

[BreezeWood]

I wasn’t aware that atheists have holy ground or sacred places.

You don't respect your choice? You have no wish for anyone else to respect or understand your choice?

.

You don't respect your choice? You have no wish for anyone else to respect or understand your choice?

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the prevaricator ... holiness of the innocent.

 

[BreezeWood]

Of course. The themes and the lessons. The reason discussions of the Great Flood are so frustrating is that people want to muse about water and far away animals. Oh. And why God killed babies. I despair that our literary skills are vanishing and the knowledge our ancestors tried so hard to pass onto about God is dissipating.

I encourage you not to despair as entropy is an inescapable imperative that in this fallen world entails the intellectual and spiritual as well. God is bringing things to a close, to that overwhelming conclusion. That conclusion is the end of evil and the beginning of full disclosure. Ultimately, life is about one thing: exploring the reaches of God's mind while enveloped in a love that surpasses all understanding, and the glorious journey never ends.

.

Of course. The themes and the lessons. The reason discussions of the Great Flood are so frustrating is that people want to muse about water and far away animals.

.
the "want" as described being instilled in the 4th century was for that very purpose, to undermine the cataclysmic events relevance and absolute contradiction against their new religion of christianity. the religion of servitude over resolve.
.
.

I encourage you not to despair as entropy is an inescapable imperative that in this fallen world entails the intellectual and spiritual as well. God is bringing things to a close, to that overwhelming conclusion. That conclusion is the end of evil and the beginning of full disclosure.

.
that conclusion could not be any further from reality than a beginning to time.

yes, that does seem the case for you - spiritual entropy.

the catastrophic event was the precursor for what was already prescribed as the means for "bringing things to a close" by the culmination of the necessary triumph, individually and collectively for a final judgement to be rendered not of their doing but that of humanity and all other beings for the purpose of their admission to the Everlasting and the extenuation of their spiritual existence.

In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen

.

In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen

.
the icing on the cake, really though it doesn't take sherlock holmes to recognize the nefarious objective to substantiate the forgeries and facilities of their make believe homily disguised as a religion. and how it is all neatly tied together.

 

[presonorek]

Sharing experiences is fine if that’s where it ended. But, I have to point out that religions tend to have this need to share their experiences at the business end of force and coercion. The choices made by adherents to your belief system and the belief system of adherents to competing religions can affect me on an ongoing basis. Since I am not an adherent to any of these religions, but to some extent must cope with them, I certainly think this gives me solid reasons to address the veracity of your claims.

So, you are terrified of religion. When was your last experience of being forced and coerced? Which religion did this to you?

It has happened to me in this thread. I’m supposed believe in God just because I am dumb if I don’t. It’s not strong coercion but in real life sociological forces are much stronger.

Eventually, I know I will end up giving in and just pretending that I believe in Jesus. It would make my life 1 million times better anyways. Mind as well.

 

[Grumblenuts]

the prevaricator ... holiness of the innocent.

Drippingly. Meriweather, the untouchable innocent flower. Always a readily concocted fallacious excuse or attack in response to nothing actually said. Gotta admire the consistency and perseverance. Does get old pretty darn quick though. Boy, if religious folk could just be more straightforward and honest.. wowzah.. Might even help solve vasuderatorrent's dilemma!