Two Questions for Atheists

[Boss]

God made me an atheist. Who are you to question his wisdom?

- Unknown

That should send em screaming into the night

Doesn't bother me, I agree.

 

[edthecynic]

God made me an atheist. Who are you to question his wisdom?
- Unknown

That should send em screaming into the night

Here is another screamer!
I thank God I'm an Atheist.

- George Bernard Shaw

 

[MarkDuffy]

We don't need a God to give meaning to life and have objective morality....

You're going to need to prove that and I doubt you can.

Again WE need to always prove. YOU never! Kiss mah grits

Morality is clearly subjective, particularly if there is nothing holding you accountable. You simply define your own parameters of morality based on your own personal desires. Moral relativism.

I know the Bible. There is very little morality in it. There are some good lines, but then someone comes along and claims the original Hebrew doesn't say that; so it is confusing.

I know what good & evil is. I did not need a God to figure it out.

There's a reason stores lock their doors at night and have cashiers. If morality were universally "objective" then this wouldn't be required. We'd all go to the store when we need things and we'd drop money in the collection plate as we leave for the items we took. But without a presence holding us morally accountable, we begin to define our own parameters based on our own selfish desires. Pretty soon, even the most morally righteous person sees others leaving without paying and they follow suit. It's the human condition, we're fallible. We need something to hold us morally accountable beyond ourselves.

You have come up with some real winners, but this is one of your dumbest. The people know they have done wrong, but enough about conservatives.

Yes, we need laws cuz your creator God was a miserable failure.

 

[Meriweather]

LOL to your second point & true too! Agnostics are playing it safe or so they think. The theists take no prisoners though. They will tell agnostics they will burn in the lake of fire.

This is the type of broad-brushing to which I object. Catholic teaching is quite clear. We can teach the way Christ taught and promise it is the way of eternal life. What Catholics cannot do is guarantee atheists will also find and have eternal life. We leave those types of situations in God's very capable hands. Catholic teaching is that we don't know who--if anyone--is in hell I was never taught that the atheists in my family would spend their afterlife in hell. In fact, Romans states non-believers will be judged by their own hearts.

This is why my call to atheists is to be sure and get their facts straight before accusing believers of saying they are hell bound. A few do believe that--but not most.

 

[MarkDuffy]

OMG I just realized

OK, Boss, how do YOU get your morality from your God?

Warning, be VERY careful with your response.

 

[forkup]

Not at all. Give me something that science can't explain and I'm perfectly willing to entertain the idea of a supreme being after all if I'm not able to disprove something any hypothesis carries the possibility to be right. Give me things that do fall within the framework of reason, the God hypothesis is simply nonsensical.

Cosmological constant. Quantum entanglement. The existence of Dark Matter and Dark Energy. Gravitational constant. How electrons can be in two places at the same time or exist, yet, occupy no space in time. How physical nature could create itself and do so from nothingness. The existence of the Golden Ratio. Fibonacci sequence. How light can be both a wave and particle. The observer effect. Origin of life.

Sure for some of them at least. Now here's the crux of the problem . If you want me to accept God as an explanation for these problems you need to be able to prove that God is the only possible way these things can happen. Pretty hard to do. But if you can I'm perfectly willing to accept the existence of God.

 

[MarkDuffy]

LOL to your second point & true too! Agnostics are playing it safe or so they think. The theists take no prisoners though. They will tell agnostics they will burn in the lake of fire.

This is the type of broad-brushing to which I object. Catholic teaching is quite clear. We can teach the way Christ taught and promise it is the way of eternal life. What Catholics cannot do is guarantee atheists will also find and have eternal life. We leave those types of situations in God's very capable hands. Catholic teaching is that we don't know who--if anyone--is in hell I was never taught that the atheists in my family would spend their afterlife in hell. In fact, Romans states non-believers will be judged by their own hearts.

This is why my call to atheists is to be sure and get their facts straight before accusing believers of saying they are hell bound. A few do believe that--but not most.

I like Catholics! In my Bible Study classes, several of them, they claimed Catholics are not Christians! I laughed, they got pissed!

Pope Francis says atheists can do good and go to heaven too!

Pope Francis says atheists can do good and go to heaven too! - Living Faith - Home & Family - News - Catholic Online

Catholics even accept evolution. They are always on the cutting edge.

 

[forkup]

-First of, The first reply I gave in this OP was a direct answer to your premise.

No. Your first reply in this thread was to answer the question with a question. That's called constructing a straw man. It's a technique of avoidance in answering the question. Since then, I have repeatedly explained that I am not asking you about which God(s) you find more attractive or what alternatives you have. It's just a very simple question which you're obviously not inclined to answer, for whatever reason.

So wanting a clear framework to answer a question is a construction straw man? Boss that's simply untrue. If I ask you," what is the color of the sky in the place I live?" Is asking," where do you live" a construction straw man?"
I'll give you an example. Lets assume it's the OT God. Then me being a non believer would make me go to hell. Since I rather not exist than be tortured for eternity. I would hope I'm right. if it's the NT God then I have hope that God would allow me to go to heaven because I'm a moral man so I'd hope I'm wrong. If god would be Odin then being a murderer and a rapist would get me to Valhalla so I'd hope I'm wrong. If God is just an advanced alien who doesn't do anything then create us as some lab experiment it wouldn't matter since me being right or wrong has absolutely no consequences either way so it wouldn't matter. Depending on who God is my answer to that question varies so how am I to answer without a definition of God?

So wanting a clear framework to answer a question is a construction straw man? Boss that's simply untrue. If I ask you," what is the color of the sky in the place I live?" Is asking," where do you live" a construction straw man?"

No, but I'm not asking you a question about myself. I'm asking about your beliefs.

Again... because you seem to be a hard head... the question is not about what kind of God you don't believe in. I presume, if you are truly an Atheist, you don't believe in any God. So do you hope that you're wrong or hope that you're right? It's really simple and needs no clearer framework.

You avoidance of an answer is leading me to think you are unsure as to what you believe.

So you want to know that the idea of nothingness bothers me? Not really I won't be aware of it.

 

[forkup]

-As I said there are thousands of different man/ men and woman in the sky myths, all are different, most are dramatically different. This would all have bearing on my answer since you are basically asking if I find any of them more attractive then my belief that there is no God. So if you ask do I want to be wrong? How can I answer if I don't know what the alternative is?

I have not asked you which God you find more attractive.Nor have I asked if you want to be wrong. I've also not asked you for any alternative. Apparently, you're having trouble comprehending a very simple and straightforward question. I merely asked if you hope you are right or hope you are wrong. I don't understand why that's so difficult to understand or why you are struggling so hard to avoid answering. You obviously have a belief of some kind... do you hope your belief is right? Or do you hope you're wrong?

To my belief. The closest thing I have is that I don't know. Doubt is not a belief, it's actually the opposite of belief. I'm sure the God's as described in any of the so called holy books are bullshit. They are too well defined. Anything you define you can investigate and test. Every time something in the holy books get tested they are proven wrong. So those Gods I can dismiss.
As to another version of a supreme being it is more difficult. How am I to know the difference between an advanced alien and a God? As long as I don't have any experiment to test one way or another, "I don't know" is the only valid answer. I lean to the explanation that there's only physics and nothing else, but that's just an hypothesis not a belief.

Doesn't sound like you're truly an Atheist.

Oh really, why? An atheist just doesn't believe that God exists. Not believing in something doesn't mean you exclude the possibility. I don't believe that I'll win the lottery, that doesn't mean I'll exclude the possibility.

 

[Meriweather]

OMG I just realized

OK, Boss, how do YOU get your morality from your God?

Warning, be VERY careful with your response.

Scripture says God's laws are written on our hearts. We (believers and non-believers alike) take it from there. Believers are of a mind that God's grace can help strengthen us through the rough spots.

 

[rightwinger]

-As I said there are thousands of different man/ men and woman in the sky myths, all are different, most are dramatically different. This would all have bearing on my answer since you are basically asking if I find any of them more attractive then my belief that there is no God. So if you ask do I want to be wrong? How can I answer if I don't know what the alternative is?

I have not asked you which God you find more attractive.Nor have I asked if you want to be wrong. I've also not asked you for any alternative. Apparently, you're having trouble comprehending a very simple and straightforward question. I merely asked if you hope you are right or hope you are wrong. I don't understand why that's so difficult to understand or why you are struggling so hard to avoid answering. You obviously have a belief of some kind... do you hope your belief is right? Or do you hope you're wrong?

To my belief. The closest thing I have is that I don't know. Doubt is not a belief, it's actually the opposite of belief. I'm sure the God's as described in any of the so called holy books are bullshit. They are too well defined. Anything you define you can investigate and test. Every time something in the holy books get tested they are proven wrong. So those Gods I can dismiss.
As to another version of a supreme being it is more difficult. How am I to know the difference between an advanced alien and a God? As long as I don't have any experiment to test one way or another, "I don't know" is the only valid answer. I lean to the explanation that there's only physics and nothing else, but that's just an hypothesis not a belief.

Doesn't sound like you're truly an Atheist.

Oh really, why? An atheist just doesn't believe that God exists. Not believing in something doesn't mean you exclude the possibility. I don't believe that I'll win the lottery, that doesn't mean I'll exclude the possibility.

I am willing to believe in God

Just need someone to provide me proof

 

[MarkDuffy]

OMG I just realized

OK, Boss, how do YOU get your morality from your God?

Warning, be VERY careful with your response.

Scripture says God's laws are written on our hearts. We (believers and non-believers alike) take it from there. Believers are of a mind that God's grace can help strengthen us through the rough spots.

You forgot, Boss rejects the Bible & organized religions so he doesn't have to defend it & them.

Soooo, he needs to explain how he gets that morality.

 

[MarkDuffy]

OMG I just realized

OK, Boss, how do YOU get your morality from your God?

Warning, be VERY careful with your response.

Scripture says God's laws are written on our hearts. We (believers and non-believers alike) take it from there. Believers are of a mind that God's grace can help strengthen us through the rough spots.

You forgot, Boss rejects the Bible & organized religions so he doesn't have to defend it & them.

Soooo, he needs to explain how he gets that morality.

Scripture says God's laws are written on our hearts.

By the way, your claim is in the Scriptures as future tense, not past tense. It first requires one is born again, a new creation

Hebrews 10:16 "This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds."

Jeremiah 31:33 "This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time," declares the LORD. "I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.

 

[Czernobog]

Do you hope that you are wrong or do you hope that you are right?

Neither. As a rational atheist, I have not desire one way, or the other. Being a rational atheist isn't about being "right", or "wrong"; it is about observing evidence. Nothing more, nothing less.

Do you ever have doubts about your Atheism?

There is nothing to "doubt". You presume that atheism is a dogmatic belief, like theism. It isn't - at least, not for me. It is simply the rational position in the absence of objective, observable, verifiable evidence to the contrary - God does not exist. Should I ever be presented with such evidence I will easily change my position to God exists. At that point, I will do whatever can be done to objectively test the nature of that God.

 

[MarkDuffy]

Do you hope that you are wrong or do you hope that you are right?

Neither. As a rational atheist, I have not desire one way, or the other. Being a rational atheist isn't about being "right", or "wrong"; it is about observing evidence. Nothing more, nothing less.

Do you ever have doubts about your Atheism?

There is nothing to "doubt". You presume that atheism is a dogmatic belief, like theism. It isn't - at least, not for me. It is simply the rational position in the absence of objective, observable, verifiable evidence to the contrary - God does not exist. Should I ever be presented with such evidence I will easily change my position to God exists. At that point, I will do whatever can be done to objectively test the nature of that God.

They have a bigger problem than just that.

Proving the existence of God is only one step about their claim. They go much farther than just "God exists". They have dug a hole so deep they can never climb out of it.

 

[Czernobog]

Do you hope that you are wrong or do you hope that you are right?

Neither. As a rational atheist, I have not desire one way, or the other. Being a rational atheist isn't about being "right", or "wrong"; it is about observing evidence. Nothing more, nothing less.

Do you ever have doubts about your Atheism?

There is nothing to "doubt". You presume that atheism is a dogmatic belief, like theism. It isn't - at least, not for me. It is simply the rational position in the absence of objective, observable, verifiable evidence to the contrary - God does not exist. Should I ever be presented with such evidence I will easily change my position to God exists. At that point, I will do whatever can be done to objectively test the nature of that God.

They have a bigger problem than just that.

Proving the existence of God is only one step about their claim. They go much farther than just "God exists". They have dug a hole so deep they can never climb out of it.

True. However, that wasn't the scope of the two questions. The questions were about the nature of atheism.

 

[K9Buck]

-To your first question I can only answer with another question. Wrong about what? It's ill defined. Because it demands of me that I know which God you believe in.

My question is not about what I believe. It's about what YOU believe and whether you hope you're wrong or right. It doesn't demand anything, it asks a question, as denoted by the question mark at the end.

While your question may be about what others believe, he makes a valid point. Which God? If you plan to constrain the discussion to monotheism, then you should say so.

Atheists like to cite the concept of competing gods as if, somehow, that proves there is no creator and everything made itself.

No, it just forces you to explain why the context must be monotheism.

No it doesn't.

 

[Meriweather]

OMG I just realized

OK, Boss, how do YOU get your morality from your God?

Warning, be VERY careful with your response.

Scripture says God's laws are written on our hearts. We (believers and non-believers alike) take it from there. Believers are of a mind that God's grace can help strengthen us through the rough spots.

You forgot, Boss rejects the Bible & organized religions so he doesn't have to defend it & them.

Soooo, he needs to explain how he gets that morality.

Scripture says God's laws are written on our hearts.

By the way, your claim is in the Scriptures as future tense, not past tense. It first requires one is born again, a new creation

Hebrews 10:16 "This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds."

Jeremiah 31:33 "This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time," declares the LORD. "I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.

I'm recalling what is said in the Book of Romans.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

"there is a considerable difference between someone who is unsure whether God exists andsomeone who is certain God doesn't exist"

Both are atheists. The latter is a special case of atheism called "Gnostic atheism".

Nope. One is Atheist and one is Agnostic. What you're doing is called Word Salad. That's a popular tactic of those who are avoiding the obvious implications. Or... someone who is mentally challenged. I'll let you decide on that one.

Wrong. Agnostics are atheists, in that they do not accept a belief in God. Someone who is certain there are no gods is a "Gnostic atheist".

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

-To your first question I can only answer with another question. Wrong about what? It's ill defined. Because it demands of me that I know which God you believe in.

My question is not about what I believe. It's about what YOU believe and whether you hope you're wrong or right. It doesn't demand anything, it asks a question, as denoted by the question mark at the end.

While your question may be about what others believe, he makes a valid point. Which God? If you plan to constrain the discussion to monotheism, then you should say so.

Atheists like to cite the concept of competing gods as if, somehow, that proves there is no creator and everything made itself.

No, it just forces you to explain why the context must be monotheism.

No it doesn't.

Of course it does. If a person is asked if they believe in God, they are correct to ask, "which god?" At that point, if you desire a discussion in the context of monotheism, you must then add this constraint.