Two Questions for Atheists

[thetor]

The only God I believe in, is Myself.......all other Gods are Cruel Bastards and some who claim they believe in their particular GOD,are too, Cruel Bastards

Perhaps if you thought of those other entities as shaped in your image you might be more sanguine about their possible existence...

I've thought a lot about it,but I stick to what I said,when all is thought through

 

[Boss]

OMG I just realized

OK, Boss, how do YOU get your morality from your God?

Warning, be VERY careful with your response.

No need to be careful with my response, it's very simple. My morality is guided by the Spiritual Light. If it enables or promotes a positive spiritual energy it is generally moral and if not, it's generally immoral. The difference between myself and someone religious is that I behave morally for my own benefit here on Earth and not because I am commanded to do so or because I'm trying to get to heaven.My life in the here and now is enhanced and enriched by following the Spiritual Light.

 

[Boss]

Morality is clearly subjective, particularly if there is nothing holding you accountable.

Maybe you need to behave well out of fear (which is not actually morality, completely undermining that nonsense), but most people behave well because they honor reason-based morality and ethics.

The problem with "reason-based" morality and ethics is that it often leads to atrocity. Hitler reasoned it was moral and ethical to exterminate 7 million Jews. Margaret Sanger and others reasoned eugenics was morally and ethically right. Many people today have no problem reasoning it's okay to kill little babies in the womb.

So you'll say, well okay, it's "community-based" reasoning.... but we live in a nation where 75% of the population have Judeo-Christian values, why aren't we adhering to their standards of morality and ethics?

When you do not have accountability for your reasoning in what is moral and ethical, it can take any form you, as a human, can rationalize. In other words, it's absolutely subjective and meaningless.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

OMG I just realized

OK, Boss, how do YOU get your morality from your God?

Warning, be VERY careful with your response.

No need to be careful with my response, it's very simple. My morality is guided by the Spiritual Light. If it enables or promotes a positive spiritual energy it is generally moral and if not, it's generally immoral. The difference between myself and someone religious is that I behave morally for my own benefit here on Earth and not because I am commanded to do so or because I'm trying to get to heaven.My life in the here and now is enhanced and enriched by following the Spiritual Light.

Haha, there's no "spiritual light" guiding you. That is your brain, running the show.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Morality is clearly subjective, particularly if there is nothing holding you accountable.

Maybe you need to behave well out of fear (which is not actually morality, completely undermining that nonsense), but most people behave well because they honor reason-based morality and ethics.

The problem with "reason-based" morality and ethics is that it often leads to atrocity. Hitler reasoned it was moral and ethical to exterminate 7 million Jews. Margaret Sanger and others reasoned eugenics was morally and ethically right. Many people today have no problem reasoning it's okay to kill little babies in the womb.

So you'll say, well okay, it's "community-based" reasoning.... but we live in a nation where 75% of the population have Judeo-Christian values, why aren't we adhering to their standards of morality and ethics?

When you do not have accountability for your reasoning in what is moral and ethical, it can take any form you, as a human, can rationalize. In other words, it's absolutely subjective and meaningless.

That's not a problem unique to reason-based morality, so I completely reject your covenient and incorrect characterization.

And reason-based morality is far superior to your "guiding spiritual light" nonsense, as you are merely employing reason-based morality, but with only half the reason.

 

[Czernobog]

The problem with "reason-based" morality and ethics is that it often leads to atrocity. Hitler reasoned it was moral and ethical to exterminate 7 million Jews. Margaret Sanger and others reasoned eugenics was morally and ethically right. Many people today have no problem reasoning it's okay to kill little babies in the womb.

The problem is that, with the exception of your last example, which you have misrepresented, what you presented is not "reason-based". Reason-based morality is just that - it is based on reason, and verifiable science, and logic. If your "reason" relies on pseudo-scientific unfounded precepts, as were both Hitler's perception of Jews, and Eugenics, then the "reason" isn't; it is, itself, unsound. Rather like your reference to "babies in the womb". Until about the 25th week of gestation what is in the womb is not a baby, but a non-viable fetus. Trying to make the term baby, and fetus interchangeable is, itself, a lapse of reason, and a wilful disregard of medical science. So, calling Hitler's motives, or Sanger's Eugenics "reason-based" is a misapplication of the term.

 

[RWNJ]

Back a few weeks ago, I posed my first question to Atheists and I was surprised how suddenly we had so many posters proclaim themselves "Agnostic!" It was an amazing thing to see. We constantly get bombarded with the so-called "naysayers" on this forum regularly but for some odd reason, my question turned them away from Atheism to Agnosticism instantly. I don't think I ever got an honest answer to my question. So I decided it would be a good idea for a thread OP.

First Question for Atheists:

Do you hope that you are wrong or do you hope that you are right?

It's not a trick question. It's relatively easy. Just answer it honestly. If you can't answer, perhaps you need to ask yourself the question in quiet contemplation? How you answer is important and I will explain later.

The second question is:

Do you ever have doubts about your Atheism?

Again, not a trick question, relatively easy to answer.

Now, I wish that I could take credit for these profoundly brilliant questions but I can't. They are presented by Dennis Prager in an article he posted some time back. I will outline a little more about what he had to say later on. For now, I just want to get some feedback from our Atheist contingent... if we have one.

Everyone believes in God. But most of them reject Him because they love their sin more than they love the Creator. According to the Bible, there is no such thing as an atheist. So your questions are pointless. You will not receive an honest answer to them.

"For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse."

There will be no excuses on Judgement Day.

 

[Czernobog]

Back a few weeks ago, I posed my first question to Atheists and I was surprised how suddenly we had so many posters proclaim themselves "Agnostic!" It was an amazing thing to see. We constantly get bombarded with the so-called "naysayers" on this forum regularly but for some odd reason, my question turned them away from Atheism to Agnosticism instantly. I don't think I ever got an honest answer to my question. So I decided it would be a good idea for a thread OP.

First Question for Atheists:

Do you hope that you are wrong or do you hope that you are right?

It's not a trick question. It's relatively easy. Just answer it honestly. If you can't answer, perhaps you need to ask yourself the question in quiet contemplation? How you answer is important and I will explain later.

The second question is:

Do you ever have doubts about your Atheism?

Again, not a trick question, relatively easy to answer.

Now, I wish that I could take credit for these profoundly brilliant questions but I can't. They are presented by Dennis Prager in an article he posted some time back. I will outline a little more about what he had to say later on. For now, I just want to get some feedback from our Atheist contingent... if we have one.

Everyone believes in God.

That is demonstrably not true. I know that you wish everyone believed in God, but some of us just don't. We don't believe in God any more than we do unicorns, Leprechauns, or gremlins.

 

[Dr Grump]

Everyone believes in God. But most of them reject Him because they love their sin more than they love the Creator. According to the Bible, there is no such thing as an atheist. So your questions are pointless. You will not receive an honest answer to them.

"For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse."

There will be no excuses on Judgement Day.

I don't believe in a god at all. The bible doesn't define my beliefs. I do. End of story.

 

[Boss]

OMG I just realized

OK, Boss, how do YOU get your morality from your God?

Warning, be VERY careful with your response.

No need to be careful with my response, it's very simple. My morality is guided by the Spiritual Light. If it enables or promotes a positive spiritual energy it is generally moral and if not, it's generally immoral. The difference between myself and someone religious is that I behave morally for my own benefit here on Earth and not because I am commanded to do so or because I'm trying to get to heaven.My life in the here and now is enhanced and enriched by following the Spiritual Light.

Haha, there's no "spiritual light" guiding you. That is your brain, running the show.

Nope. Sorry. I have all the evidence I need that it's not my brain.

 

[Boss]

The problem with "reason-based" morality and ethics is that it often leads to atrocity. Hitler reasoned it was moral and ethical to exterminate 7 million Jews. Margaret Sanger and others reasoned eugenics was morally and ethically right. Many people today have no problem reasoning it's okay to kill little babies in the womb.

The problem is that, with the exception of your last example, which you have misrepresented, what you presented is not "reason-based". Reason-based morality is just that - it is based on reason, and verifiable science, and logic. If your "reason" relies on pseudo-scientific unfounded precepts, as were both Hitler's perception of Jews, and Eugenics, then the "reason" isn't; it is, itself, unsound. Rather like your reference to "babies in the womb". Until about the 25th week of gestation what is in the womb is not a baby, but a non-viable fetus. Trying to make the term baby, and fetus interchangeable is, itself, a lapse of reason, and a wilful disregard of medical science. So, calling Hitler's motives, or Sanger's Eugenics "reason-based" is a misapplication of the term.

All the examples I listed are "reason-based." I don't really care if you want to try and do a tap dance around it.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

OMG I just realized

OK, Boss, how do YOU get your morality from your God?

Warning, be VERY careful with your response.

No need to be careful with my response, it's very simple. My morality is guided by the Spiritual Light. If it enables or promotes a positive spiritual energy it is generally moral and if not, it's generally immoral. The difference between myself and someone religious is that I behave morally for my own benefit here on Earth and not because I am commanded to do so or because I'm trying to get to heaven.My life in the here and now is enhanced and enriched by following the Spiritual Light.

Haha, there's no "spiritual light" guiding you. That is your brain, running the show.

Nope. Sorry. I have all the evidence I need that it's not my brain.

But "all the evidence you need" is no evidence at all.

 

[Boss]

Morality is clearly subjective, particularly if there is nothing holding you accountable.

Maybe you need to behave well out of fear (which is not actually morality, completely undermining that nonsense), but most people behave well because they honor reason-based morality and ethics.

The problem with "reason-based" morality and ethics is that it often leads to atrocity. Hitler reasoned it was moral and ethical to exterminate 7 million Jews. Margaret Sanger and others reasoned eugenics was morally and ethically right. Many people today have no problem reasoning it's okay to kill little babies in the womb.

So you'll say, well okay, it's "community-based" reasoning.... but we live in a nation where 75% of the population have Judeo-Christian values, why aren't we adhering to their standards of morality and ethics?

When you do not have accountability for your reasoning in what is moral and ethical, it can take any form you, as a human, can rationalize. In other words, it's absolutely subjective and meaningless.

That's not a problem unique to reason-based morality, so I completely reject your covenient and incorrect characterization.

And reason-based morality is far superior to your "guiding spiritual light" nonsense, as you are merely employing reason-based morality, but with only half the reason.

Again... you must be misunderstanding my purpose in this thread. You seem to think this is about you. That I am somehow compelled to convince you, and failing that, I have failed to accomplish my objective. I'm not here to convince you and don't really give two shits what you reject.

I will finish by pointing out you have no idea or possible way of knowing what is superior because you don't believe in spiritual nature. You cannot compare what you don't believe in. What you're attempting to do is to be antagonistic. btw.. you failed.

 

[Boss]

OMG I just realized

OK, Boss, how do YOU get your morality from your God?

Warning, be VERY careful with your response.

No need to be careful with my response, it's very simple. My morality is guided by the Spiritual Light. If it enables or promotes a positive spiritual energy it is generally moral and if not, it's generally immoral. The difference between myself and someone religious is that I behave morally for my own benefit here on Earth and not because I am commanded to do so or because I'm trying to get to heaven.My life in the here and now is enhanced and enriched by following the Spiritual Light.

Haha, there's no "spiritual light" guiding you. That is your brain, running the show.

Nope. Sorry. I have all the evidence I need that it's not my brain.

But "all the evidence you need" is no evidence at all.

Wrong again.

 

[Czernobog]

The problem with "reason-based" morality and ethics is that it often leads to atrocity. Hitler reasoned it was moral and ethical to exterminate 7 million Jews. Margaret Sanger and others reasoned eugenics was morally and ethically right. Many people today have no problem reasoning it's okay to kill little babies in the womb.

The problem is that, with the exception of your last example, which you have misrepresented, what you presented is not "reason-based". Reason-based morality is just that - it is based on reason, and verifiable science, and logic. If your "reason" relies on pseudo-scientific unfounded precepts, as were both Hitler's perception of Jews, and Eugenics, then the "reason" isn't; it is, itself, unsound. Rather like your reference to "babies in the womb". Until about the 25th week of gestation what is in the womb is not a baby, but a non-viable fetus. Trying to make the term baby, and fetus interchangeable is, itself, a lapse of reason, and a wilful disregard of medical science. So, calling Hitler's motives, or Sanger's Eugenics "reason-based" is a misapplication of the term.

All the examples I listed are "reason-based." I don't really care if you want to try and do a tap dance around it.

"I'm right. Please stop trying to confuse me with the facts!"

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Morality is clearly subjective, particularly if there is nothing holding you accountable.

Maybe you need to behave well out of fear (which is not actually morality, completely undermining that nonsense), but most people behave well because they honor reason-based morality and ethics.

The problem with "reason-based" morality and ethics is that it often leads to atrocity. Hitler reasoned it was moral and ethical to exterminate 7 million Jews. Margaret Sanger and others reasoned eugenics was morally and ethically right. Many people today have no problem reasoning it's okay to kill little babies in the womb.

So you'll say, well okay, it's "community-based" reasoning.... but we live in a nation where 75% of the population have Judeo-Christian values, why aren't we adhering to their standards of morality and ethics?

When you do not have accountability for your reasoning in what is moral and ethical, it can take any form you, as a human, can rationalize. In other words, it's absolutely subjective and meaningless.

That's not a problem unique to reason-based morality, so I completely reject your covenient and incorrect characterization.

And reason-based morality is far superior to your "guiding spiritual light" nonsense, as you are merely employing reason-based morality, but with only half the reason.

Again... you must be misunderstanding my purpose in this thread. You seem to think this is about you. That I am somehow compelled to convince you, and failing that, I have failed to accomplish my objective. I'm not here to convince you and don't really give two shits what you reject.

I will finish by pointing out you have no idea or possible way of knowing what is superior because you don't believe in spiritual nature. You cannot compare what you don't believe in. What you're attempting to do is to be antagonistic. btw.. you failed.

" You seem to think this is about you. "

Oddly, as said in response to a two-sentence post, each one directly addressing your ideas. You are one odd guy, Boss. I have not assumed you are compelled to convince me, nor have I asked you to convince me of anything. Another creation, out of thin air, by you. I have responded to your ideas with my own thoughts of why they are nonsensical. And, along the way, I have pointed out your little cons and tricks, all of which older than dirt.

"I will finish by pointing out you have no idea or possible way of knowing what is superior because you don't believe in spiritual nature."

Yes, you got me there, it's "Just my opinion". Deep, man. Yes, that's right Boss, it's my opinion that reason-based morality is superior, and I have said exactly why I think that. And, no, I don't have to try your nuttery out for 5 years or even 5 minutes to correctly think that.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

OMG I just realized

OK, Boss, how do YOU get your morality from your God?

Warning, be VERY careful with your response.

No need to be careful with my response, it's very simple. My morality is guided by the Spiritual Light. If it enables or promotes a positive spiritual energy it is generally moral and if not, it's generally immoral. The difference between myself and someone religious is that I behave morally for my own benefit here on Earth and not because I am commanded to do so or because I'm trying to get to heaven.My life in the here and now is enhanced and enriched by following the Spiritual Light.

Haha, there's no "spiritual light" guiding you. That is your brain, running the show.

Nope. Sorry. I have all the evidence I need that it's not my brain.

But "all the evidence you need" is no evidence at all.

Wrong again.

Yes, I am correct. You have not a shred of evidence for your nonsense, else you could compel others with it. Else you could rule out opposing ideas empirically. Else you could use it to make useful predictions, which would then also be evidence. That's what evidence is, Boss. No... you, sir, have not a shred of evidence.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Back a few weeks ago, I posed my first question to Atheists and I was surprised how suddenly we had so many posters proclaim themselves "Agnostic!" It was an amazing thing to see. We constantly get bombarded with the so-called "naysayers" on this forum regularly but for some odd reason, my question turned them away from Atheism to Agnosticism instantly. I don't think I ever got an honest answer to my question. So I decided it would be a good idea for a thread OP.

First Question for Atheists:

Do you hope that you are wrong or do you hope that you are right?

It's not a trick question. It's relatively easy. Just answer it honestly. If you can't answer, perhaps you need to ask yourself the question in quiet contemplation? How you answer is important and I will explain later.

The second question is:

Do you ever have doubts about your Atheism?

Again, not a trick question, relatively easy to answer.

Now, I wish that I could take credit for these profoundly brilliant questions but I can't. They are presented by Dennis Prager in an article he posted some time back. I will outline a little more about what he had to say later on. For now, I just want to get some feedback from our Atheist contingent... if we have one.

The first ‘question’ fails as a false dilemma fallacy.

The second fails as a meaningless question fallacy.

 

[rightwinger]

Back a few weeks ago, I posed my first question to Atheists and I was surprised how suddenly we had so many posters proclaim themselves "Agnostic!" It was an amazing thing to see. We constantly get bombarded with the so-called "naysayers" on this forum regularly but for some odd reason, my question turned them away from Atheism to Agnosticism instantly. I don't think I ever got an honest answer to my question. So I decided it would be a good idea for a thread OP.

First Question for Atheists:

Do you hope that you are wrong or do you hope that you are right?

It's not a trick question. It's relatively easy. Just answer it honestly. If you can't answer, perhaps you need to ask yourself the question in quiet contemplation? How you answer is important and I will explain later.

The second question is:

Do you ever have doubts about your Atheism?

Again, not a trick question, relatively easy to answer.

Now, I wish that I could take credit for these profoundly brilliant questions but I can't. They are presented by Dennis Prager in an article he posted some time back. I will outline a little more about what he had to say later on. For now, I just want to get some feedback from our Atheist contingent... if we have one.

Everyone believes in God. But most of them reject Him because they love their sin more than they love the Creator. According to the Bible, there is no such thing as an atheist. So your questions are pointless. You will not receive an honest answer to them.

"For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse."

There will be no excuses on Judgement Day.

No...we just think he is a mythical creature

 

[Boss]

Morality is clearly subjective, particularly if there is nothing holding you accountable.

Maybe you need to behave well out of fear (which is not actually morality, completely undermining that nonsense), but most people behave well because they honor reason-based morality and ethics.

The problem with "reason-based" morality and ethics is that it often leads to atrocity. Hitler reasoned it was moral and ethical to exterminate 7 million Jews. Margaret Sanger and others reasoned eugenics was morally and ethically right. Many people today have no problem reasoning it's okay to kill little babies in the womb.

So you'll say, well okay, it's "community-based" reasoning.... but we live in a nation where 75% of the population have Judeo-Christian values, why aren't we adhering to their standards of morality and ethics?

When you do not have accountability for your reasoning in what is moral and ethical, it can take any form you, as a human, can rationalize. In other words, it's absolutely subjective and meaningless.

That's not a problem unique to reason-based morality, so I completely reject your covenient and incorrect characterization.

And reason-based morality is far superior to your "guiding spiritual light" nonsense, as you are merely employing reason-based morality, but with only half the reason.

Again... you must be misunderstanding my purpose in this thread. You seem to think this is about you. That I am somehow compelled to convince you, and failing that, I have failed to accomplish my objective. I'm not here to convince you and don't really give two shits what you reject.

I will finish by pointing out you have no idea or possible way of knowing what is superior because you don't believe in spiritual nature. You cannot compare what you don't believe in. What you're attempting to do is to be antagonistic. btw.. you failed.

" You seem to think this is about you. "

Oddly, as said in response to a two-sentence post, each one directly addressing your ideas. You are one odd guy, Boss. I have not assumed you are compelled to convince me, nor have I asked you to convince me of anything. Another creation, out of thin air, by you. I have responded to your ideas with my own thoughts of why they are nonsensical. And, along the way, I have pointed out your little cons and tricks, all of which older than dirt.

"I will finish by pointing out you have no idea or possible way of knowing what is superior because you don't believe in spiritual nature."

Yes, you got me there, it's "Just my opinion". Deep, man. Yes, that's right Boss, it's my opinion that reason-based morality is superior, and I have said exactly why I think that. And, no, I don't have to try your nuttery out for 5 years or even 5 minutes to correctly think that.

Well, no... actually you never stated why. You simply waddled in and proclaimed that you were rejecting my argument and declared it to be nonsensical. I went to the trouble to explain why "reason-based" morality is worthless. Reasoning is subjective. Humans reason all sorts of things as morally right when they are anything but. I gave you a few examples of that. When you rely on reasoning for your morals it simply means your morals are based on your own self-serving interests.

In my opinion, this is one of the biggest problems facing Atheism. There is no moral accountability. Moral relativism is responsible for the fall of many great civilizations. You can sit here and defiantly reject everything I say and pretend you've addressed my points but you cannot prove "reason-based" morality is superior to anything. Where in history are all the great Atheist civilizations? That's right, they do not exist!