Two Theories

[mamooth]

I now believe that more today just based on what I read between the two of you. I trust SSDD

So do you trust the way he flat out refused to even acknowledge the existence of the 1962 paper that said ozone half-life in the stratosphere was 5 years?

It's the SSDD way. When the science says you're full of shit, simply pretend the science doesn't exist.

Ozone does not vanish every night. That's flat-earther level of craziness. If your cult loyalty is so strong that it's making you feel obligated to jump on that crazy train, fine, but be prepared to be laughed at by everyone for the rest of your life.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I now believe that more today just based on what I read between the two of you. I trust SSDD

So do you trust the way he flat out refused to even acknowledge the existence of the 1962 paper that said ozone half-life in the stratosphere was 5 years?

It's the SSDD way. When the science says you're full of shit, simply pretend the science doesn't exist.

Ozone does not vanish every night. That's flat-earther level of craziness. If your cult loyalty is so strong that it's making you feel obligated to jump on that crazy train, fine, but be prepared to be laughed at by everyone for the rest of your life.

As the resident science expert, can you finally tell us how much CO2 is needed in order to lower the pH of the Earth's oceans from 8.25 to 8.15?

 

[jc456]

I now believe that more today just based on what I read between the two of you. I trust SSDD

So do you trust the way he flat out refused to even acknowledge the existence of the 1962 paper that said ozone half-life in the stratosphere was 5 years?

It's the SSDD way. When the science says you're full of shit, simply pretend the science doesn't exist.

Ozone does not vanish every night. That's flat-earther level of craziness. If your cult loyalty is so strong that it's making you feel obligated to jump on that crazy train, fine, but be prepared to be laughed at by everyone for the rest of your life.

Yep, I believe his posts over yours. I am fine with myself, I really would like to see that one experiement that shows that CO2 drives climate. Haven't seen that one yet, yet you keep on insisting it does, so the mere fact that you can't produce that one piece of evidence pushes me to believe SSDD information.

 

[mamooth]

As the resident science expert, can you finally tell us how much CO2 is needed in order to lower the pH of the Earth's oceans from 8.25 to 8.15?

I already told you I don't know, you stalky little thing. And I've repeatedly asked why you think it matters, but so far, you haven't been able to locate your balls and attempt an answer.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

As the resident science expert, can you finally tell us how much CO2 is needed in order to lower the pH of the Earth's oceans from 8.25 to 8.15?

I already told you I don't know, you stalky little thing. And I've repeatedly asked why you think it matters, but so far, you haven't been able to locate your balls and attempt an answer.

It's YOUR Theory that CO2 is causing "ocean acidification"

YOUR THEORY

Explain YOUR THEORY

 

[mamooth]

Yep, I believe his posts over yours. I am fine with myself,

Of course you're fine, because you don't care about the facts, just about ideological purity and cult loyalty.

 

[mamooth]

Explain YOUR THEORY

Given that we've done so many times, this is where I tell you I don't play the games of whiny little liars. You're a joke, the world is laughing at you, and you should run along and try lying to people who give a shit.

 

[jc456]

Yep, I believe his posts over yours. I am fine with myself,

Of course you're fine, because you don't care about the facts, just about ideological purity and cult loyalty.

Yes, and the facts are you have none. So you are on a message board and all you have is some prediction models that have been proven wrong, and I don't use facts. LOL buddy boy!

 

[jc456]

Explain YOUR THEORY

Given that we've done so many times, this is where I tell you I don't play the games of whiny little liars. You're a joke, the world is laughing at you, and you should run along and try lying to people who give a shit.

oh....I'm pretty sure you give a shit. You wouldn't spend your day repeating the same thing over and over with no facts to support it. And then you repeat it all over again. See to me that demonstrates you give a shit. About lies.

 

[IlarMeilyr]

Raise your hand if you believe that manboob will ever man up sufficiently to carefully and concisely explain his "theory."

 

[mamooth]

Y'all can cry at me all you want, but the whole damn world still correctly defines you as dishonest cultists. That is, you kooks lose. At this point, you're simply reinforcing your image as sore losers. Here's a thought. Instead of trying to gang up on me, which wouldn't work anyways unless you can hit 20:1 odds or better, why not do some science?

Tell us your theory to explain the observed warming. And no, waving your hands around wildly and shouting "NATURAL CYCLES!" is not a theory. Cycles have causes. Specifically name the cycle in play and the cause of it.

Explain the decrease we measure in outgoing longwave radiation, and the increase we measure in downgoing longwave radiation. AGW theory explains it perfectly. "Natural cycles!", not at all.

Explain the stratospheric cooling. Again, AGW theory explains it perfecty. Ilar's "It's the sun!" theory, alas, does not, since the stratosphere would be heating if the sun was the culprit.

We'll just start with that. At some point, you lamers have to start stating your own science, instead of just crying about the other guy. That's how science works, and so far, you all suck at it.

 

[SSDD]

Yep, I believe his posts over yours. I am fine with myself,

Of course you're fine, because you don't care about the facts, just about ideological purity and cult loyalty.

mamooth, you either have zero scientific knowledge, or zero critical thinking skills...or both.

Use your brain for just a moment....if ozone has the long half life you claim, why is it not a well mixed gas in the atmosphere? Ozone is confined to places in the atmosphere where it is produced because it has such a short life span. If individual molecules hung around for even a small fraction of the time you claim, ozone would be well mixed in the atmosphere....it isn't precisely because individual molecules have such a short half life.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Explain YOUR THEORY

Given that we've done so many times, this is where I tell you I don't play the games of whiny little liars. You're a joke, the world is laughing at you, and you should run along and try lying to people who give a shit.

No, Admiral. Please link to the post where you described the amount of CO2 needed to reduce the pH from 8.25 to 8.15

Stop lying about what you've answered

 

[Crick]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_acidification

Ocean acidification is the ongoing decrease in the pH of the Earth's oceans, caused by the uptake of carbon dioxide (CO
2) from the atmosphere.[2] An estimated 30–40% of the carbon dioxide released by humans into the atmosphere dissolves into oceans, rivers and lakes.[3][4] To achieve chemical equilibrium, some of it reacts with the water to form carbonic acid. Some of these extra carbonic acid molecules react with a water molecule to give a bicarbonate ion and a hydronium ion, thus increasing ocean "acidity" (H+ ion concentration). Between 1751 and 1994 surface ocean pH is estimated to have decreased from approximately 8.25 to 8.14,[5] representing an increase of almost 30% in H+ ion concentration in the world's oceans.[6][7] Earth System Models project that within the last decade ocean acidity exceeded historical analogs [8] and in combination with other ocean biogeochemical changes could undermine the functioning of marine ecosystems and many ocean goods and services.[9]

REFERENCES
1) "Feely et al. - Evidence for upwelling of corrosive "acidified" water onto the Continental Shel". pmel.noaa.gov. Retrieved 2014-01-25.
2) Caldeira, K.; Wickett, M. E. (2003). "Anthropogenic carbon and ocean pH". Nature 425 (6956): 365–365. Bibcode:2001AGUFMOS11C0385C. doi:10.1038/425365a. PMID 14508477.
3) Millero, Frank J. (1995). "Thermodynamics of the carbon dioxide system in the oceans". Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta 59 (4): 661–677. Bibcode:1995GeCoA..59..661M. doi:10.1016/0016-7037(94)00354-O.
4) Feely, R. A.; et al. (July 2004). "Impact of Anthropogenic CO2 on the CaCO3 System in the Oceans". Science 305 (5682): 362–366. Bibcode:2004Sci...305..362F. doi:10.1126/science.1097329. PMID 15256664.
5) Jacobson, M. Z. (2005). "Studying ocean acidification with conservative, stable numerical schemes for nonequilibrium air-ocean exchange and ocean equilibrium chemistry". Journal of Geophysical Research – Atmospheres 110: D07302. Bibcode:2005JGRD..11007302J. doi:10.1029/2004JD005220.
6) Hall-Spencer, J. M.; Rodolfo-Metalpa, R.; Martin, S.; et al. (July 2008). "Volcanic carbon dioxide vents show ecosystem effects of ocean acidification". Nature 454 (7200): 96–9. Bibcode:2008Natur.454...96H. doi:10.1038/nature07051. PMID 18536730.
7) Report of the Ocean Acidification and Oxygen Working Group, International Council for Science's Scientific Committee on Ocean Research (SCOR) Biological Observatories Workshop
8) Mora, C (2013). "The projected timing of climate departure from recent variability". Nature 502: 183–187. doi:10.1038/nature12540.
9) Mora, C. et al. (2013). "Biotic and Human Vulnerability to Projected Changes in Ocean Biogeochemistry over the 21st Century". PLoS Biology 11: e1001682. doi:10.1371/journal.pbio.1001682.
*************************************************************************

So, numbnuts, it took 30% more than was there in 1751.

and now, you stupid ass, tell us what you're going to DO with the number.

 

[Crick]

and

Rate
One of the first detailed datasets to examine how pH varied over a period of time at a temperate coastal location found that acidification was occurring much faster than previously predicted, with consequences for near-shore benthic ecosystems.[28][29] Thomas Lovejoy, former chief biodiversity advisor to the World Bank, has suggested that "the acidity of the oceans will more than double in the next 40 years. This rate is 100 times faster than any changes in ocean acidity in the last 20 million years, making it unlikely that marine life can somehow adapt to the changes."[30] It is predicted that, by the year 2100, the level of acidity in the ocean will reach the levels experienced by the earth 20 million years ago.[9][31]

Current rates of ocean acidification have been compared with the greenhouse event at the Paleocene–Eocene boundary (about 55 million years ago) when surface ocean temperatures rose by 5–6 degrees Celsius. No catastrophe was seen in surface ecosystems, yet bottom-dwelling organisms in the deep ocean experienced a major extinction. The current acidification is on a path to reach levels higher than any seen in the last 65 million years,[32] and the rate of increase is about ten times the rate that preceded the Paleocene–Eocene mass extinction. The current and projected acidification has been described as an almost unprecedented geological event.[33] A National Research Council study released in April 2010 likewise concluded that "the level of acid in the oceans is increasing at an unprecedented rate."[34][35] A 2012 paper in the journal Science examined the geological record in an attempt to find a historical analog for current global conditions as well as those of the future. The researchers determined that the current rate of ocean acidification is faster than at any time in the past 300 million years.[36][37]

A review by climate scientists at the RealClimate blog, of a 2005 report by the Royal Society of the UK similarly highlighted the centrality of the rates of change in the present anthropogenic acidification process, writing:[38]

"The natural pH of the ocean is determined by a need to balance the deposition and burial of CaCO3 on the sea floor against the influx of Ca2+ and CO2−3 into the ocean from dissolving rocks on land, called weathering. These processes stabilize the pH of the ocean, by a mechanism called CaCO3 compensation...The point of bringing it up again is to note that if the CO2 concentration of the atmosphere changes more slowly than this, as it always has throughout the Vostok record, the pH of the ocean will be relatively unaffected because CaCO3 compensation can keep up. The [present] fossil fuel acidification is much faster than natural changes, and so the acid spike will be more intense than the earth has seen in at least 800,000 years."

In the 15-year period 1995–2010 alone, acidity has increased 6 percent in the upper 100 meters of the Pacific Ocean from Hawaii to Alaska.[39] According to a statement in July 2012 by Jane Lubchenco, head of the U.S. National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration "surface waters are changing much more rapidly than initial calculations have suggested. It's yet another reason to be very seriously concerned about the amount of carbon dioxide that is in the atmosphere now and the additional amount we continue to put out."[40]

A 2013 study claimed acidity was increasing at a rate 10 times faster than in any of the evolutionary crises in the earth's history.[41]

REFERENCES

28) Wootton, J. T.; Pfister, C. A. and Forester, J. D. (2008). "Dynamic patterns and ecological impacts of declining ocean pH in a high-resolution multi-year dataset". Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 105 (48): 18848–18853. Bibcode:2008PNAS..10518848W. doi:10.1073/pnas.0810079105. PMC 2596240. PMID 19033205.
29) "Ocean Growing More Acidic Faster Than Once Thought; Increasing Acidity Threatens Sea Life". Science Daily. 2008-11-26. Retrieved 26 November 2008.
30) UN: Oceans are 30 percent more acidic than before fossil fuels
31) "What is Ocean Acidification". NOAA. Retrieved 24 August 2013.
32) "Rate of ocean acidification the fastest in 65 million years". Physorg.com. 2010-02-14. Retrieved 2013-08-29.
33) "An Ominous Warning on the Effects of Ocean Acidification by Carl Zimmer: Yale Environment 360". e360.yale.edu. Retrieved 2014-01-25.
34) Report: Ocean acidification rising at unprecedented rate
35) United States National Research Council, 2010. Ocean Acidification: A National Strategy to Meet the Challenges of a Changing Ocean
36) "The Geological Record of Ocean Acidification". JournalistsResource.org, retrieved 14 March 2012
37) Hönisch, Bärbel; Ridgwell, Andy; Schmidt, Daniela N.; Thomas, E.; Gibbs, S. J.; Sluijs, A.; Zeebe, R.; Kump, L.; Martindale, R. C.; Greene, S. E.; Kiessling, W.; Ries, J.; Zachos, J. C.; Royer, D. L.; Barker, S.; Marchitto, T. M.; Moyer, R.; Pelejero, C.; Ziveri, P.; Foster, G. L.; Williams, B. (2012). "The Geological Record of Ocean Acidification". Science 335 (6072): 1058–1063. Bibcode:2012Sci...335.1058H. doi:10.1126/science.1208277. PMID 22383840.
38) The Acid Ocean – the Other Problem with CO2 Emission
39) How Acidification Threatens Oceans from the Inside Out
40) Huffington Post, 9 July 2012, "Ocean Acidification Is Climate Change's 'Equally Evil Twin,' NOAA Chief Says," http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...limate-change_n_1658081.html?utm_hp_ref=green
41) Fiona Harvey, environment correspondent (2013-08-25). "Rising levels of acids in seas may endanger marine life, says study | Environment". The Guardian. Retrieved 2013-08-29.
42) Mitchell, M. J.; et al (2010). "A model of carbon dioxide dissolution and mineral carbonation kinetics". Proceedings of the Royal Society A 466 (2117): 1265–1290. doi:10.1098/rspa.2009.0349.

 

[Crick]

Has it occurred to you how poor is your position when you can be blown out of the water by an encyclopedia article?

 

[SSDD]

Has it occurred to you how poor is your position when you can be blown out of the water by an encyclopedia article?

Q: How much atmospheric CO2 will be needed to reduce the pH from 8.25 to 8.15?'

A: More than could be created by burning all of the known fossil fuels on planet earth.

Why can't you answer a simple question. If you were what you claimed to be abe, you could answer the question...of course, answering the question and still maintaining your position would expose you as the hand waving old hysterical granny that you are.

 

[Crick]

I'll bite. What do YOU think caused the ocean's pH to go from 8.25 too 8.14? Oh, and let's see the math behind your claim if you please.

 

[mamooth]

No, Admiral. Please link to the post where you described the amount of CO2 needed to reduce the pH from 8.25 to 8.15

Since I never claimed to have answered that, there would obviously be no link. Why are choosing to deliberately lie by saying I said I answered it? You're getting more and more dishonest, which would seem to indicate you're getting more and more desperate.

So, let's get back to what's making you squeal and run, which was the request that you post your theory, for the first time ever. Sauce for the goose. We've been posting theories over and over for years, so now it's time for you to put up.

Tell us your theory to explain the observed warming. Again, waving your hands around wildly and shouting "NATURAL CYCLES!" is not a theory. Cycles have causes. Specifically name the cycle in play and the cause of it.

Explain why we measure a decrease in outgoing longwave radiation, and an increase in downgoing longwave radiation, exactly as AGW theory predicts. What "Natural cycles" would explain it?

Explain the stratospheric cooling, another thing predicted perfecty by AGW theory. Since a hotter sun would cause a hotter stratosphere, theories of solar increase causing warming fall flat. Why do you say the stratosphere is cooling as the world warms?

 

[mamooth]

A: More than could be created by burning all of the known fossil fuels on planet earth.

Please show us your calculations for this. That is, if you didn't just pull it out of your ass. If you did just pull it out of your ass, you may have some trouble backing up your claim.

Do make sure your answer accounts for stratification of the oceans, and the buffering action of the bicarbonate and carbonate ions.

At least I'm smart enough to understand I don't have enough knowledge to calculate the numbers for that very complicated question. You're not.