Unarmed exchange student killed by homeowner

[Esmeralda]

Markus Kaarma, Montana man, pleads not guilty in shooting death of German exchange student - CBS News

Suspect in German exchange student killing pleads not guilty.

Another unarmed teenanger is sacraficed to the pro-gun pitbull grip on a literal interpretation of the 2nd Amendment.

American is the only modern Western country where unarmed burglary seems to warrant a death sentence.

Nothing to see here, just Darwin cleaning out the gene pool of retards.

You don't prank sneaking into strangers garages in the middle of the fucking night.

What a stupid shit, and it is no wonder that a cretin like you would sympathize with this little fucktard, Esmerelda.

why are you calling HER a 'cretin' for having a heart about an unnecessary death?

you sound like a blood thirsty cretin yourself.

He probably doesn't know what the word means.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Markus Kaarma, Montana man, pleads not guilty in shooting death of German exchange student - CBS News

Suspect in German exchange student killing pleads not guilty.

Another unarmed teenanger is sacraficed to the pro-gun pitbull grip on a literal interpretation of the 2nd Amendment.

American is the only modern Western country where unarmed burglary seems to warrant a death sentence.

Nothing to see here, just Darwin cleaning out the gene pool of retards.

You don't prank sneaking into strangers garages in the middle of the fucking night.

What a stupid shit, and it is no wonder that a cretin like you would sympathize with this little fucktard, Esmerelda.

why are you calling HER a 'cretin' for having a heart about an unnecessary death?

you sound like a blood thirsty cretin yourself.

That is your stupid ass opinion that the homeowner had to put his life and family at risk rather than use deadly force, and yes that makes you a cretin too.

Nobody wants to kill anyone here but no one has to risk their own life because of someone else being too stupid to breath right.

 

[JimBowie1958]

No one but anti-gun nuts made that argument. They do it out of stupidity or malice.

Malice.

IT's another 'gotcha' by the fascist gun grabbing retards trying to illustrate their claim about how dangerous guns are, but it actually tells most people what loons the gun grabbers are instead.

If I hear someone in my garage at night and they are hiding and wont come out into plain sight I have to make a decision based on what I know.

1) Why is this person here if not to do me harm? Why would I think it is some jack ass trying to prank me? Why would/should I risk my life and my families life on the assumption that the hiding person is NOT trying to do me harm?

2) Why wont this person give up and come out? This makes me even more convinced of the strong likelihood they intend harm.

3) Are they near objects that can be used as weapons? Is this person within 20 feet of me and could rush me and knock me out? Most garages are small enough that 20 feet is likely, and they could have taken a tool from the tool bench like a hammer or nail gun to use as a weapon.

4) Do they have any plausible right to be in my garage in the middle of the night?

Given those details I would shoot at the person if they did not come out and do exactly as I tell them to.

They have no right to put me in that situation and if they don't comply they will wish they did.

You apparently have not read the article. None of the scenarios in your post match the incident.

I was posing a hypothetical situation, dumbass.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Nothing to see here, just Darwin cleaning out the gene pool of retards.

You don't prank sneaking into strangers garages in the middle of the fucking night.

What a stupid shit, and it is no wonder that a cretin like you would sympathize with this little fucktard, Esmerelda.

why are you calling HER a 'cretin' for having a heart about an unnecessary death?

you sound like a blood thirsty cretin yourself.

He probably doesn't know what the word means.

lol, as if I couldn't look it up if I didn't?

You just proved me right, dumbfuck.

 

[Esmeralda]

Nothing to see here, just Darwin cleaning out the gene pool of retards.

You don't prank sneaking into strangers garages in the middle of the fucking night.

What a stupid shit, and it is no wonder that a cretin like you would sympathize with this little fucktard, Esmerelda.

why are you calling HER a 'cretin' for having a heart about an unnecessary death?

you sound like a blood thirsty cretin yourself.

That is your stupid ass opinion that the homeowner had to put his life and family at risk rather than use deadly force, and yes that makes you a cretin too.

Nobody wants to kill anyone here but no one has to risk their own life because of someone else being too stupid to breath right.

Yep, he doesn't know what the word means as he has twice now used it incorrectly. As well, the homeowner and his family were never at risk.

 

[Iceweasel]

Where in the US is simple trespassing a crime for which the legal punishment is the death penalty? Please cite the exact statute.

No one but anti-gun nuts made that argument. They do it out of stupidity or malice.

Are you crazy? Who would buy this BS? You have said that anyone who trespasses on your property deserves to die. So, please, show me the statute from any American state, county, whatever, that states the penalty for trespassing is death?

Since I never said that then you are lying. I said if they came into my home when I was there. No state in the union considers it as just a trespass.

 

[Esmeralda]

Malice.

IT's another 'gotcha' by the fascist gun grabbing retards trying to illustrate their claim about how dangerous guns are, but it actually tells most people what loons the gun grabbers are instead.

If I hear someone in my garage at night and they are hiding and wont come out into plain sight I have to make a decision based on what I know.

1) Why is this person here if not to do me harm? Why would I think it is some jack ass trying to prank me? Why would/should I risk my life and my families life on the assumption that the hiding person is NOT trying to do me harm?

2) Why wont this person give up and come out? This makes me even more convinced of the strong likelihood they intend harm.

3) Are they near objects that can be used as weapons? Is this person within 20 feet of me and could rush me and knock me out? Most garages are small enough that 20 feet is likely, and they could have taken a tool from the tool bench like a hammer or nail gun to use as a weapon.

4) Do they have any plausible right to be in my garage in the middle of the night?

Given those details I would shoot at the person if they did not come out and do exactly as I tell them to.

They have no right to put me in that situation and if they don't comply they will wish they did.

You apparently have not read the article. None of the scenarios in your post match the incident.

I was posing a hypothetical situation, dumbass.

You're calling me dumb? Seriously, how funny. One only poses a hypothetical situation if it is analogous with the real situation. None of your examples are in anyway like the real situation.

 

[Katzndogz]

The death was completely avoidable by the simple act on the part of the thief to not steal.

citizens don't get to be judge and jury and the legal penalty for theft is not death.

If the thief is in the act they do. Would you say the same about a woman that did the same thing to a rapist?

Don't steal. There is no right to steal. There is a risk to breaking the law. When someone chooses to break the law, they assume the risk that they will be severely injured or killed.

 

[Esmeralda]

No one but anti-gun nuts made that argument. They do it out of stupidity or malice.

Are you crazy? Who would buy this BS? You have said that anyone who trespasses on your property deserves to die. So, please, show me the statute from any American state, county, whatever, that states the penalty for trespassing is death?

Since I never said that then you are lying. I said if they came into my home when I was there. No state in the union considers it as just a trespass.

No, you didn't specfically state it, but it has been said in this thread, and you have supported such statements. So, weasel is the right name for you. Yep.

 

[Iceweasel]

Are you crazy? Who would buy this BS? You have said that anyone who trespasses on your property deserves to die. So, please, show me the statute from any American state, county, whatever, that states the penalty for trespassing is death?

Since I never said that then you are lying. I said if they came into my home when I was there. No state in the union considers it as just a trespass.

No, you didn't specfically state it, but it has been said in this thread, and you have supported such statements. So, weasel is the right name for you. Yep.

Another lie. You can't be honest.

 

[Ernie S.]

The man had been broken into twice before. He had installed video surveillance and motion detectors in and around his home. The surveillance system alerted him and he knew what he was about to face, namely an apparently full grown man.

Why didn't he just stay inside, with his shotgun by his side and call the cops?

I would add, if he did need to shoot in supposed "self defense" -- why wouldn't he shoot in a direction that would drive the intruder AWAY FROM the garage... rather than shooting INTO the garage, thereby trapping him inside it, i.e. ensuring he didn't have an exit?

That's where his "self-defense" mockery gets laughed out of court.

#1 "warning shots" are illegal
#2 Sane people shoot towards their target, not away from it.

Why was the kid in the garage in the first place?
He got shot because he illegally entered private property.
Had he not decided it would be fun to break into a man's home for the 3rd time, he would be alive, wouldn't he?

 

[Ernie S.]

The young man could not have been "trapped inside" had he not illegally entered the garage, now, could he?

^^^ LOL....example of rightwing logic. If you go into any environment, legally or not, and cannot get out, you are trapped there.

You don't understand the point, do you?

He entered the garage illegally. He put himself in a position where there was only one way out. His illegal act is what got him killed.

 

[Ernie S.]

So, now people deserve to be shot for being dumb? And you people say you aren't blood thirsty.

You may not deserve it, but you are risking it. And the risk is all on the trespasser, because you are TRESSPASSING.

In the US, the legal penalty for trespassing is not death. Why are you folks so anxious to murder people?

Look! Self defense is a basic human instinct. If you enter my home in the middle of the night without my permission, I can only guess about your intentions.
Are you more apt to redecorate my living room, or rape my wife?

Damn! I can't be sure, but I am prepared for the later.
I have thwarted a rape attempt against my first wife in my home with a shotgun and an armed robbery and likely stabbing against myself with a revolver. Thankfully, I didn't need to take a life in either case, but I would have been justified.
No one is anxious to murder people. Murder is a crime. Self defense is not.

 

[Ernie S.]

In the US, the legal penalty for trespassing is not death. Why are you folks so anxious to murder people?

You don't understand the laws or what the words trespassing or murder means. You are either lying or stunningly ill informed.

Where in the US is simple trespassing a crime for which the legal punishment is the death penalty? Please cite the exact statute.

You just don't get it! This kid was not shot as punishment for trespassing. He was shot to prevent him from harming the home's occupants and removing its contents. The homeowner could not possibly know his intentions beyond entering the home. He prudently assumed the worst.

 

[theHawk]

Markus Kaarma, Montana man, pleads not guilty in shooting death of German exchange student - CBS News

Suspect in German exchange student killing pleads not guilty.

Another unarmed teenanger is sacraficed to the pro-gun pitbull grip on a literal interpretation of the 2nd Amendment.

American is the only modern Western country where unarmed burglary seems to warrant a death sentence.

Wow another liberal displaying their outrage that another American refuses to just roll over and let thug theives do as they please.

If you don't want to get shot by a raging "gun-nut", then don't tresspass on his property and break into his/her home. Let the world beware.

 

[Pogo]

Why didn't he just stay inside, with his shotgun by his side and call the cops?

I would add, if he did need to shoot in supposed "self defense" -- why wouldn't he shoot in a direction that would drive the intruder AWAY FROM the garage... rather than shooting INTO the garage, thereby trapping him inside it, i.e. ensuring he didn't have an exit?

That's where his "self-defense" mockery gets laughed out of court.

#1 "warning shots" are illegal
#2 Sane people shoot towards their target, not away from it.

I guess I didn't lay it out simply enough because none of that relates to the point at all. Nor is it about warning shots.

Point being, the homeowner did not take a defensive position within the structure, meaning a position from which one would drive an intruder away -- rather, he went away from the structure where he could take an offensive position -- meaning a position to trap his victim and prevent his evacuation.

In other words he wasn't "defending" -- he was hunting. Complete with baited trap, which he even bragged about a whole week earlier. And that's why I say there goes his "self-defense" posture. You can't claim self-defense when you're clearly on offense.

Why was the kid in the garage in the first place?

We can never know now, can we? The price of trigger-happy behavior.

He got shot because he illegally entered private property.

That we know. The question is whether the aggressive action was reasonable or over the top.

Had he not decided it would be fun to break into a man's home for the 3rd time, he would be alive, wouldn't he?

The "third time"?
Where did you read the victim was in there before? The homeowner said they had had some pot-smoking paraphernalia taken before, but to my knowledge nobody implied it was this German kid.

In any case whether he would be alive or not depends on whether the homeowner in question keeps his head or not. This one obviously didn't.

 

[Pogo]

Because when seconds count the cops are minutes away. Furthermore, the cops have no legal obligation to respond with aid.

If your dumb enough to walk into someones personal property, your dumb enough to be shot. You know, it's really not all that difficult avoiding being shot like this.

-Geaux

So, now people deserve to be shot for being dumb? And you people say you aren't blood thirsty.

Yes, you should be shot if you're dumb enough to walk into someones personal property. I know the libs teach their kids not to stand under trees during a T-Storm, and not to cross the street without looking, I just know they can also teach them that walking into someones property could also deliver the same consequences as a result of poor decision making

-Geaux

And if that poor decision making amounts to blasting shotguns into the dark in a trap you set and waited on for a week, well that's the kind of irrationality that can't be predicted. No more than a pedestrian walking down the street minding his own business who gets picked off by a crazed sniper. You just can't predict madness.

 

[Pogo]

"Self defense" is in your own desperation. It's not part of the story. For the umpteenth time, in order to defend yourself, there must exist a threat your're defending yourself from. No such threat existed here, therefore there is no possible self-defense legal defense that need be proven or disproven. Because that (legal) defense has no basis.

If someone breaks in then they are a threat. You can be as wrong as you want for as long as you want but it won't change anything. Go ahead and test the theory out for yourself and get back to us. If you can.

No -- if someone breaks in they are an intruder. Only when they show a threat do they become one. Your own imagination does not qualify.

Doesn't apply in this case anyway -- there was no "break in". The garage was deliberately left wide open, with bait showing. This was not a castle breached; this was a baited trap that unfortunately seems to have worked.

 

[Pogo]

Thank goodness for the Castle Doctrine

-Geaux

=====================================

Each state differs in the way it incorporates the castle doctrine into its laws, what premises are covered (abode only, or other places too), what degree of retreat or non-deadly resistance is required before deadly force can be used, etc.

Typical conditions that apply to some castle doctrine laws include:[citation needed]

An intruder must be making an attempt (or have made) an attempt to unlawfully or forcibly enter an occupied residence, business, or vehicle.
The intruder must be acting unlawfully (the castle doctrine does not allow a right to use force against officers of the law, acting in the course of their legal duties).
The occupant(s) of the home must reasonably believe the intruder intends to inflict serious bodily harm or death upon an occupant of the home. Some states apply the Castle Doctrine if the occupant(s) of the home reasonably believe the intruder intends to commit a lesser felony such as arson or burglary.
The occupant(s) of the home must not have provoked or instigated an intrusion; or, provoked/instigated an intruder's threat or use of deadly force.

Read your own post.

 

[Pogo]

States That Have Stand Your Ground Laws - FindLaw

There is no 'reasonable' belief in this situation of death or bodily harm.

Yes, there is.

No. There isn't.

Kid was unarmed, baited and trapped. The only danger of bodily harm was to the German kid.

All the homeowner had to do was lock the door between the garage and the house and call the police.

"All he had to do..." said the person who wasn't there.

"Yes there is [belief in this situation of death or bodily harm]"... said another person who wasn't there either.

He's going to spend a long, long time in prison. He lives in a state with the Castle Doctrine: use of deadly force is considered a last resort. This was not a last resort situation.

I doubt that a full group of random citizens of the state of MONTANA will unanimously agree that there is no reasonable doubt involved her.

Stupid shit teenage punk died; good riddance.

Obviously you have no respect for human life. But that's your problem. This Kaarma guy apparently has even less. And that's now his karma.