Unarmed exchange student killed by homeowner

[Esmeralda]

You know how much we value your input on these matters. Zimmerman's already serving life and getting raped on a daily basis, eh?

Zimmerman is living in hiding because someone will probably kill him if he shows his face in public.

Believable.

But who would actually follow-through and kill Zimmerman, other than some disaffected member of Martin's family?

I expect there are thousands of people around the country, unstable people true, who would happily blow him away. He probably gets death threats on a daily basis.

 

[Kondor3]

Zimmerman is living in hiding because someone will probably kill him if he shows his face in public.

Believable.

But who would actually follow-through and kill Zimmerman, other than some disaffected member of Martin's family?

I expect there are thousands of people around the country, unstable people true, who would happily blow him away. He probably gets death threats on a daily basis.

Well...

Chances are, for the most part...

Those who would kill him are not White...

Those who would kill him are not Hispanic...

Those who would kill him are not Asian nor Native American...

Those who would kill him are not Conservative...

Those who would kill him are not Centrists...

Those who would kill him are not Gun-Rights folk...

If true, in the main, then, I wonder who that leaves, upon which to build a pool of motivated potential killers?

 

[JimBowie1958]

Perfect example of why anyone who does not think anyone should not have guns is an idiot. Please do us a favor. Turn your check, let the home invaders snuff your ass out and leave us alone.

That sounds like a threat to me. You are threatening me with death. You are suggesting I should be 'snuffed' out because I disagree with you.

lol, if you interpret his statement that way, then you are an idiot or just another wannabe victim looking for offense, take your pick.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Believable.

But who would actually follow-through and kill Zimmerman, other than some disaffected member of Martin's family?

I expect there are thousands of people around the country, unstable people true, who would happily blow him away. He probably gets death threats on a daily basis.

Well...

Chances are, for the most part...

Those who would kill him are not White...

Those who would kill him are not Hispanic...

Those who would kill him are not Asian nor Native American...

Those who would kill him are not Conservative...

Those who would kill him are not Centrists...

Those who would kill him are not Gun-Rights folk...

If true, in the main, then, I wonder who that leaves, upon which to build a pool of motivated potential killers?

IT's the Amish, I'm telling ya, it's those evil Amish people.

 

[thanatos144]

Perfect example of why anyone who does not think anyone should not have guns is an idiot. Please do us a favor. Turn your check, let the home invaders snuff your ass out and leave us alone.

That sounds like a threat to me. You are threatening me with death. You are suggesting I should be 'snuffed' out because I disagree with you. And you really want anyone to believe you are level headed enough to be a responsible gun owner?

No where near what he said....

 

[Esmeralda]

Perfect example of why anyone who does not think anyone should not have guns is an idiot. Please do us a favor. Turn your check, let the home invaders snuff your ass out and leave us alone.

That sounds like a threat to me. You are threatening me with death. You are suggesting I should be 'snuffed' out because I disagree with you. And you really want anyone to believe you are level headed enough to be a responsible gun owner?

No where near what he said....

What he said was I should die, it would be doing you all a favor if I died. That's pretty clear. Very graphic. I should die because he doesn't like my opinion about guns.

 

[thanatos144]

That sounds like a threat to me. You are threatening me with death. You are suggesting I should be 'snuffed' out because I disagree with you. And you really want anyone to believe you are level headed enough to be a responsible gun owner?

No where near what he said....

What he said was I should die, it would be doing you all a favor if I died. That's pretty clear. Very graphic. I should die because he doesn't like my opinion about guns.

Hyperbolic bullshit as normal from you.

 

[Kondor3]

"Stand by to repel Drama Queens, starboard !!!"

 

[Pogo]

FFS 45 pages of drivel is enough from you. If they are in my house I don't give a shit whether they attack me or not. Nor am I required to.

Nobody gives a shit what you think, troll. You've contributed absolutely zero here. Only TheNutHouse and SlowieBowie make you look valid by comparison. Let the adults handle this.

 

[Pogo]

Do libs oppose tape victims killing rapists? I mean it's just sex right?

so you are comparing sexual assault to stealing a rake?

Two reasons why this guy is probably going to go to jail for this.

1) The kid was in the garage, and therefore no immediate threat.

2) He shot the kid twice with a shotgun. Which means either the kid was lying prone and he double tapped or the kid was running (limping) away and he shot him in the back.

Regardless where the shot landed, what the coward did is the ethical equivalent of shooting somebody in the back. An act that is traditionally viewed, especially in the West, with utter contempt.

 

[Pogo]

Believable.

But who would actually follow-through and kill Zimmerman, other than some disaffected member of Martin's family?

I expect there are thousands of people around the country, unstable people true, who would happily blow him away. He probably gets death threats on a daily basis.

Well...

Chances are, for the most part...

Those who would kill him are not White...

Those who would kill him are not Hispanic...

Those who would kill him are not Asian nor Native American...

Those who would kill him are not Conservative...

Those who would kill him are not Centrists...

Those who would kill him are not Gun-Rights folk...

If true, in the main, then, I wonder who that leaves, upon which to build a pool of motivated potential killers?

A committee of strawmen?

 

[Pogo]

"Stand by to repel Drama Queens, starboard !!!"

For those not familiar with naughty-cal terms, starboard is "on the right".





Speakin' of navigation...

Perfect example of why anyone who does not think anyone should not have guns is an idiot.

Y-y-y-yyyeah....
-- I don't think I fail to not disagree with that...

With some people you can sum up their failure to get any traction in a single line. Don't stay unclassy.

 

[Ernie S.]

No no, two separate things. The hairdressers are evidence of premeditation. That's a whole separate issue that goes to the "self-defense" defense.

The three residents who all reported the road rage (same pattern every time) would be the evidence of insanity. Nobody in the defense suggested insanity AFAIK -- I'm just saying they might find that avenue more effective given the profile.

--- Rather than go down a list of generalization fallacies, should I ask what happened in 1992?

I believe premeditated self defense is still self defense. I carry a firearm and will use it to defend myself, my family, my home or my business. The very act of being prepared could be construed as premeditation.

Here's a hypothetical for you where I would agree that the shooter should be convicted.
Let's say that Joe Blow had learned that his neighbor was sleeping with his wife. Joe calls neighbor and asks him to come over to help with a plumbing problem and says, "I'll be in the kitchen. Come right in." Neighbor comes over and walks in through an unlocked front door. Joe blows him away.

If the state can prove it came down like that, by all means, convict him.


BUT Dede was not invited into the garage despite maybe being enticed by an open door and a purse. He BROKE the law by entering a private occupied dwelling. Sounds more like suicide to me.

Trying to equate "prepare" with "premeditate"? That's beneath you.
You carry a firearm and will use it to defend yourself -- fine. But number one, in order to do that you must first be attacked, and you can't set it up; an number two, you haven't gone down to a local merchant and ranted about how you've been staying up every night to try to catch the kid who took your bhong and you're going to shoot some fucking kid and capped it off with "I'm serious, you'll see this on the fucking news" --- did you?

And I agree on both counts, that in your scenario that would be murder, and that it's nothing like the instant case.

Of course this case (in your Liberal "mind") is exactly like my scenario.
You are equating an open door and a purse with calling the neighbor to help with a plumbing problem. Kaarma DID NOT invite Dede into his home. Dede instigated the altercation by committing a crime. That fact is enough for me, and most reasonable people to consider that, having committed one crime, the perpetrator may be prepared to commit another, more violent crime. It was Kaarma's right and even his responsibility to defend his home and family.
I do see that some jurors will view the purse, open door and the hairdresser's statements as premeditation, but I believe in basic human decency and think that as many will see this as a frustrated man defending his home and family.

 

[Ernie S.]

Perfect example of why anyone who does not think anyone should not have guns is an idiot. Please do us a favor. Turn your check, let the home invaders snuff your ass out and leave us alone.

That sounds like a threat to me. You are threatening me with death. You are suggesting I should be 'snuffed' out because I disagree with you. And you really want anyone to believe you are level headed enough to be a responsible gun owner?

Does it read like a threat to you? If so, you don't really belong anywhere near an adult discussion. Go play in traffic, little one.

 

[Kondor3]

I expect there are thousands of people around the country, unstable people true, who would happily blow him away. He probably gets death threats on a daily basis.

Well...

Chances are, for the most part...

Those who would kill him are not White...

Those who would kill him are not Hispanic...

Those who would kill him are not Asian nor Native American...

Those who would kill him are not Conservative...

Those who would kill him are not Centrists...

Those who would kill him are not Gun-Rights folk...

If true, in the main, then, I wonder who that leaves, upon which to build a pool of motivated potential killers?

IT's the Amish, I'm telling ya, it's those evil Amish people.

Dang Pennsylvania-German Mafioso...

 

[Ernie S.]

That sounds like a threat to me. You are threatening me with death. You are suggesting I should be 'snuffed' out because I disagree with you. And you really want anyone to believe you are level headed enough to be a responsible gun owner?

No where near what he said....

What he said was I should die, it would be doing you all a favor if I died. That's pretty clear. Very graphic. I should die because he doesn't like my opinion about guns.

Did HE threaten you, or posit that it might be appropriate for you to be a victim of a violent home invasion?
Seems like you have a lot of bitterness, child. I take delight in Dede's death and thanatos is threatening you....

That's 2 apologies you need to be making today, little one.

 

[Pogo]

I believe premeditated self defense is still self defense. I carry a firearm and will use it to defend myself, my family, my home or my business. The very act of being prepared could be construed as premeditation.

Here's a hypothetical for you where I would agree that the shooter should be convicted.
Let's say that Joe Blow had learned that his neighbor was sleeping with his wife. Joe calls neighbor and asks him to come over to help with a plumbing problem and says, "I'll be in the kitchen. Come right in." Neighbor comes over and walks in through an unlocked front door. Joe blows him away.

If the state can prove it came down like that, by all means, convict him.


BUT Dede was not invited into the garage despite maybe being enticed by an open door and a purse. He BROKE the law by entering a private occupied dwelling. Sounds more like suicide to me.

Trying to equate "prepare" with "premeditate"? That's beneath you.
You carry a firearm and will use it to defend yourself -- fine. But number one, in order to do that you must first be attacked, and you can't set it up; an number two, you haven't gone down to a local merchant and ranted about how you've been staying up every night to try to catch the kid who took your bhong and you're going to shoot some fucking kid and capped it off with "I'm serious, you'll see this on the fucking news" --- did you?

And I agree on both counts, that in your scenario that would be murder, and that it's nothing like the instant case.

Of course this case (in your Liberal "mind") is exactly like my scenario.
You are equating an open door and a purse with calling the neighbor to help with a plumbing problem. Kaarma DID NOT invite Dede into his home. Dede instigated the altercation by committing a crime. That fact is enough for me, and most reasonable people to consider that, having committed one crime, the perpetrator may be prepared to commit another, more violent crime. It was Kaarma's right and even his responsibility to defend his home and family.
I do see that some jurors will view the purse, open door and the hairdresser's statements as premeditation, but I believe in basic human decency and think that as many will see this as a frustrated man defending his home and family.

No, I said I agreed with you that your scenario is NOT analogous.

Maybe you place more significance on the whole bait thing than I do. It does point at Kaarma's intent but for me it's far more significant that he predicted it and described his plan a week before. To me it's significant that a guy who claims "defense" takes a clearly offensive sniper position and literally traps his prey, describing him in his own words as a "caged animal". To me it's significant that a guy who claims "defense" starts firing into his own house, penetrating the walls into the living space. To me it's significant that a guy who claims "defense", and his GF, both run out of the house and leave a 10-month old baby alone with buckshot peppering the house he's in (we haven't even brought up the assault on the child's hearing) while they both run out to pick off what they would have us believe is a "threat" -- by assuming a position that can only drive the intruder back INTO the house.

It's also corroboratingly significant that a guy who claims to have been frustrated with burglaries, then leaves his garage door wide open and therefore vulnerable. And the three road rage incidents, plus the arrogant language at the hair shop, plus his comment to be happy to shoot a cop, make up a profile of a guy who was clearly out for blood and carrying a "fuck you" attitude. The prosecution will construct that profile and his "defense" case will be wheezing on the floor losing blood like a 17-year-old who just got picked off by a sniper.


IMHO.

 

[Ernie S.]

FFS 45 pages of drivel is enough from you. If they are in my house I don't give a shit whether they attack me or not. Nor am I required to.

Nobody gives a shit what you think, troll. You've contributed absolutely zero here. Only TheNutHouse and SlowieBowie make you look valid by comparison. Let the adults handle this.

No comments on Esmeralda's childish hyperbole?

 

[Ernie S.]

Trying to equate "prepare" with "premeditate"? That's beneath you.
You carry a firearm and will use it to defend yourself -- fine. But number one, in order to do that you must first be attacked, and you can't set it up; an number two, you haven't gone down to a local merchant and ranted about how you've been staying up every night to try to catch the kid who took your bhong and you're going to shoot some fucking kid and capped it off with "I'm serious, you'll see this on the fucking news" --- did you?

And I agree on both counts, that in your scenario that would be murder, and that it's nothing like the instant case.

Of course this case (in your Liberal "mind") is exactly like my scenario.
You are equating an open door and a purse with calling the neighbor to help with a plumbing problem. Kaarma DID NOT invite Dede into his home. Dede instigated the altercation by committing a crime. That fact is enough for me, and most reasonable people to consider that, having committed one crime, the perpetrator may be prepared to commit another, more violent crime. It was Kaarma's right and even his responsibility to defend his home and family.
I do see that some jurors will view the purse, open door and the hairdresser's statements as premeditation, but I believe in basic human decency and think that as many will see this as a frustrated man defending his home and family.

No, I said I agreed with you that your scenario is NOT analogous.

Maybe you place more significance on the whole bait thing than I do. It does point at Kaarma's intent but for me it's far more significant that he predicted it and described his plan a week before. To me it's significant that a guy who claims "defense" takes a clearly offensive sniper position and literally traps his prey, describing him in his own words as a "caged animal". To me it's significant that a guy who claims "defense" starts firing into his own house, penetrating the walls into the living space. To me it's significant that a guy who claims "defense", and his GF, both run out of the house and leave a 10-month old baby alone with buckshot peppering the house he's in (we haven't even brought up the assault on the child's hearing) while they both run out to pick off what they would have us believe is a "threat" -- by assuming a position that can only drive the intruder back INTO the house.

It's also corroboratingly significant that a guy who claims to have been frustrated with burglaries, then leaves his garage door wide open and therefore vulnerable. And the three road rage incidents, plus the arrogant language at the hair shop, plus his comment to be happy to shoot a cop, make up a profile of a guy who was clearly out for blood and carrying a "fuck you" attitude. The prosecution will construct that profile and his "defense" case will be wheezing on the floor losing blood like a 17-year-old who just got picked off by a sniper.


IMHO.

The statements of the hairdresser (remember she has not been cross examined as yet) are a statement of intent, IF someone, at some point in the future commits by breaking into his home.
A bold statement, perhaps, but it is a statement that he will protect his family and home, something he is allowed to do under Montana law.

Telling someone you intend to obey a law is NOT premeditation for breaking the same law.

 

[Esmeralda]

No where near what he said....

What he said was I should die, it would be doing you all a favor if I died. That's pretty clear. Very graphic. I should die because he doesn't like my opinion about guns.

Did HE threaten you, or posit that it might be appropriate for you to be a victim of a violent home invasion?Seems like you have a lot of bitterness, child. I take delight in Dede's death and thanatos is threatening you....

That's 2 apologies you need to be making today, little one.

That is exactly what he said, that it would be doing him a favor that I be the victim of a violent home invasion and be 'snuffed' in the process.
I don't have bitterness; I think you are violent people who delight in the idea of killing anyone you deem should be killed; that you are the ones who are bitter and frightened, and the only thing that makes you feel powerful is to think about how tough you are with your gun and how you can just blow away people you don't like.