understand how WASTEFUL a muzzleloader is?

[prison/con.net]

50 grs of powder, minimum charge. 7000 grs in a lb. So only 140 such charges per lb. 140 grs is a .44 caliber rd ball. Sort of pointless on squirrels and rabbits, eh? same thing for a 12 ga charge, 3/4 oz of shot. there's no bison herds, and not much elk, to warrant such a huge expenditure of powder and lead, for shtf, guys. for the same 1 lb as your black powder's 40 shots, a silenced .22 autorifle gives you 135 shots. Given the advantages of lack of noise, luminous sight inserts and rapidfire, of COURSE the .22 is superior, for long term survival, to either the 12 ga or the muzzle loader. And when you add in the 1/4 mile effective sniping range of the scoped M4, the piercing of soft body armor, the chromed bore and chamber, etc, sheesh, black powder looks like what it is. A FANTASY, promoted by people who want to SELL such garbage to you.

A silenced .22 rifle can BRAIN deer to 50 yds, which is further than a modern 12 ga can reliably take them with Buckshot, even thru specially choked barrels. it's also as far as a "golf ball" (rasp-"knurling" will make a 12 ga pumpkin ball reliably able to hit a deer's chest. If the muzzle loader has "enough range for deer", then so does the silenced .22 autorifle, without even considering the major advtantages of the 223 (ie, .22lr conversion unit in the AR15)

 

[prison/con.net]

do you understand the pita that black powder is? smoke so thick and large in volume that you can't even tell if you've hit your mark, and it marks your location just fine for enemies. Single shot, 30 seconds or more to reload, short ranged, won't pierce soft armor, no luminous sights, no silencer, and you'll have LOTS more enemies than did the frontiersmen, who will be desperate and they won't be stuck with just trade muskets or bows/arrows, either.


"corning" black powder into suitable gun propellant is dangerous as hell. People have been killled doing it. making bp that's good enough for pipe bombs is irrelevant.

BP draws moisure and is HIGHLY corrosive, so you get misfires, hangfires, and varying velocities. every time you fire a shot, you have to remove the new charge, thoroughly clean and lube the gun, and reload it. REAL practical when modern thugs are trying to kill you.

before "long term" is to be worried-about, you have to first survive the short-term and 99% of the US population is in no position at ALL to survive even the first year of shtf.

 

[WinterBorn]

50 grs of powder, minimum charge. 7000 grs in a lb. So only 140 such charges per lb. 140 grs is a .44 caliber rd ball. Sort of pointless on squirrels and rabbits, eh? same thing for a 12 ga charge, 3/4 oz of shot. there's no bison herds, and not much elk, to warrant such a huge expenditure of powder and lead, for shtf, guys. for the same 1 lb as your black powder's 40 shots, a silenced .22 autorifle gives you 135 shots. Given the advantages of lack of noise, luminous sight inserts and rapidfire, of COURSE the .22 is superior, for long term survival, to either the 12 ga or the muzzle loader. And when you add in the 1/4 mile effective sniping range of the scoped M4, the piercing of soft body armor, the chromed bore and chamber, etc, sheesh, black powder looks like what it is. A FANTASY, promoted by people who want to SELL such garbage to you.

A silenced .22 rifle can BRAIN deer to 50 yds, which is further than a modern 12 ga can reliably take them with Buckshot, even thru specially choked barrels. it's also as far as a "golf ball" (rasp-"knurling" will make a 12 ga pumpkin ball reliably able to hit a deer's chest. If the muzzle loader has "enough range for deer", then so does the silenced .22 autorifle, without even considering the major advtantages of the 223 (ie, .22lr conversion unit in the AR15)

Can you hit the head of a deer at 50 yards? And hit it in just the right spot to kill the deer? Despite what you think, a deer's head moves around quite a bit.

Perhaps if you weren't completely obsessed with these SHTF scenarios, you might understand that people buy firearms for uses other than the potential use in a situation that may never happen.

 

[WinterBorn]

do you understand the pita that black powder is? smoke so thick and large in volume that you can't even tell if you've hit your mark, and it marks your location just fine for enemies. Single shot, 30 seconds or more to reload, short ranged, won't pierce soft armor, no luminous sights, no silencer, and you'll have LOTS more enemies than did the frontiersmen, who will be desperate and they won't be stuck with just trade muskets or bows/arrows, either.


"corning" black powder into suitable gun propellant is dangerous as hell. People have been killled doing it. making bp that's good enough for pipe bombs is irrelevant.

BP draws moisure and is HIGHLY corrosive, so you get misfires, hangfires, and varying velocities. every time you fire a shot, you have to remove the new charge, thoroughly clean and lube the gun, and reload it. REAL practical when modern thugs are trying to kill you.

before "long term" is to be worried-about, you have to first survive the short-term and 99% of the US population is in no position at ALL to survive even the first year of shtf.

I know several guys (and one woman) who deer hunt every year with a muzzleloader. They get their hunting done before the deer are skittish from having people shooting so much.

You say it is worthless, but those people have a freezer full of meat they got legally. And the self-satisfaction of hunting with a primitive weapons. But then, I wouldn't expect you to understand that part.

 

[9thIDdoc]

If I weren't allowed but one firearm I would take a ML over an AR in .223 any day.

 

[9thIDdoc]

I have killed many deer with home made lead balls. Wouldn't want to have to make my own .223 bullets.
If my flintlock musket needs a new flint I can knap a new one. I can't make primers. And the flintlock is still quite deadly shooting scrap metal or even rocks at close range.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

50 grs of powder, minimum charge. 7000 grs in a lb. So only 140 such charges per lb. 140 grs is a .44 caliber rd ball. Sort of pointless on squirrels and rabbits, eh? same thing for a 12 ga charge, 3/4 oz of shot. there's no bison herds, and not much elk, to warrant such a huge expenditure of powder and lead, for shtf, guys. for the same 1 lb as your black powder's 40 shots, a silenced .22 autorifle gives you 135 shots. Given the advantages of lack of noise, luminous sight inserts and rapidfire, of COURSE the .22 is superior, for long term survival, to either the 12 ga or the muzzle loader. And when you add in the 1/4 mile effective sniping range of the scoped M4, the piercing of soft body armor, the chromed bore and chamber, etc, sheesh, black powder looks like what it is. A FANTASY, promoted by people who want to SELL such garbage to you.

A silenced .22 rifle can BRAIN deer to 50 yds, which is further than a modern 12 ga can reliably take them with Buckshot, even thru specially choked barrels. it's also as far as a "golf ball" (rasp-"knurling" will make a 12 ga pumpkin ball reliably able to hit a deer's chest. If the muzzle loader has "enough range for deer", then so does the silenced .22 autorifle, without even considering the major advtantages of the 223 (ie, .22lr conversion unit in the AR15)

Yeah....?
So is making cold brewed coffee but I like what I like....