United Airlines Dragging Incident.Can You Imagine If It Was Hillary Clinton Or Mike Tyson?

[WinterBorn]

No connections in Louisville. It looks like United had a last minute problem with an airliner and needed to send four crew members to Louisville. Better to inconvenience 4 passengers in Chicago than strand 130 passengers in Louisville for lack of crewmembers.

Cancelling or delaying a flight is not that unusual. Inconvenience should not involve violently removing a passenger.

They should have deplaned everyone. The only reboarded those who were authorized. Again, the plane wasn't leaving with a belligerent and violent passenger on board.

Again, the man was not belligerent or violent until they forcibly removed him. He was not acting out before that.

 

[WinterBorn]

Ice,

The Airline is meant to offer up to $1,300 dollars, if no one moves then they can as someone to leave....

Here is a few problems for United, their employees were on standby and not full passengers.
Did United offer everyone on the plane $1,300 to take the next plane and did everyone refuse? (The $1,300 is the law)

United used a rule that was given to them for safety reasons and abused it for commercial reasons...

Ah interesting. So government DID fuck it up. Go figure!

It is United who are meant to make the offer... They can only force someone off the plane if every passenger refused $1,300...

Now some passengers would go for $1000 or less, that is United to figure out... But the passenger who was forcefully removed is allowed to ask if everyone was offered $1,300 and can rightfully take his place on the plane until that happens.

The passenger was deemed disruptive because he might have asked this question or said their offer wasn't enough. I have a funny feeling United didn't offer the money so they could bump up a buddy from Stand By.

United will claim the the man was being disruptive for stating his right and ejected him for safety reasons... No judge is going to swallow that... Airlines accepted the $1,300 rules as it allows them to make over book and generally make a nice profit from it. Think of the cost of late seat booking... Nothing wrong with overbooking a flight as long as as you have a healthy compensation scheme if you get caught and passengers voluntary take advantage of it... In most plane journeys you have a student or retired who will take $500 for a bump...

Passengers need to read the Contract of Carriage they agreed to when they bought a ticket.

Contract of Carriage Document | United Airlines
Transportation of Passengers and Baggage provided by United Airlines, Inc. and Carriers doing business as United Express, are subject to the following terms and conditions, in addition to any terms and conditions printed on or in any ticket, ticket jacket or eticket receipt. To the extent there is a conflict between this Contract of Carriage and any terms and conditions printed on or in any ticket, ticket jacket or eticket receipt, this Contract governs. By purchasing a ticket or accepting transportation, the passenger agrees to be bound by these controlling terms of this Contract of Carriage, and no covenants at law or in equity shall be implied or incorporated. Note, only the English version of United’s Contract of Carriage governs the transportation of Passengers and Baggage provided by United Airlines, Inc. and Carriers doing business as United Express.....

....
RULE 21 REFUSAL OF TRANSPORT
UA shall have the right to refuse to transport or shall have the right to remove from the aircraft at any point, any Passenger for the following reasons:...

3. Force Majeure and Other Unforeseeable Conditions – Whenever such action is necessary or advisable by reason of weather or other conditions beyond UA’s control including, but not limited to, acts of God, force majeure, strikes, civil commotions, embargoes, wars, hostilities, terrorist activities, or disturbances, whether actual, threatened, or reported....

H. Safety – Whenever refusal or removal of a Passenger may be necessary for the safety of such Passenger or other Passengers or members of the crew including, but not limited to:

1. Passengers whose conduct is disorderly, offensive, abusive, or violent;
2. Passengers who fail to comply with or interfere with the duties of the members of the flight crew, federal regulations, or security directives;....

And those rules cover booting paying passengers in favor of transporting employees? The disorderly conduct did not come up until the passenger was being forcibly removed.

United will be losing plenty over this fiasco.

Yes. It's called Force Majeure

I doubt this was designed to cover transporting employees.

 

[saveliberty]

No connections in Louisville. It looks like United had a last minute problem with an airliner and needed to send four crew members to Louisville. Better to inconvenience 4 passengers in Chicago than strand 130 passengers in Louisville for lack of crewmembers.

Cancelling or delaying a flight is not that unusual. Inconvenience should not involve violently removing a passenger.

They should have deplaned everyone. The only reboarded those who were authorized. Again, the plane wasn't leaving with a belligerent and violent passenger on board.

Your definition of violent needs work.

 

[Anathema]

As I understand it, United pulled the paying customer off the plane to make room for 3 of their employees who were flying standby. If I have a ticket for a flight, I agree with being given the option of taking another flight. But for United to physically remove the customer is the kiss of death.

Read the back of your ticket. You are not GUARANTEED a spot on the flight. Airlines regularly overbooked flights knowing that 5-10% of customers never show up.

The passengers were offered $800 and a different flight. When nobody agreed they went to the Lottery system that is apparently Standard Procedure (remember that bit about your seat not being guaranteed).

 

[WinterBorn]

...Gee, who would of won that battle?

The police. The plane would never leave the gate with an unstable passenger on board. Four people were asked to deplane and only one nutjob refused. Doctor or not, that guy was unstable.

That was the 5:40PM flight from Chicago to Louisville. There was another one at 9pm.

And did he have a connecting flight or an important appointment?

If it was just a matter of overbooking, I might be more lenient with United. Not much, but maybe a little. They removed 4 paying passengers so they could transport their own employees who were flying standby. That is simply unacceptable.

No connections in Louisville. It looks like United had a last minute problem with an airliner and needed to send four crew members to Louisville. Better to inconvenience 4 passengers in Chicago than strand 130 passengers in Louisville for lack of crewmembers.

According to what I have read, the employees needed to work the following day. Why not fly the standby employees on the 9pm flight?

Crew rest rules. Do you really want an airline to be crewed by people who only had 3 hours of sleep in the last 24 hours?

Again, the appears to be a last minute problem. If the crewmembers were regularly scheduled to do that flight then they'd have been boarded previously. The four passengers who deplaned would never have been onboard.

FWIW, when there are no volunteers the airlines usually go to the cheapest tickets and the last to check in. So if you are buying your ticket off Orbitz or Hotwire, make sure you check in an hour or two prior to avoid being deplaned off a crowded flight.

About as much as I would like my doctor to have had 3 hours of sleep in the last 24 hrs. To have the flight the following day covered United could have shuffled their employee rosters. This entire thing was because United did not want to be inconvenienced.

And if they had gone with the cheapest tickets or the last one to check in it would be one thing. For all we know the man in the video paid top price for the section and checked in first.

 

[WinterBorn]

As I understand it, United pulled the paying customer off the plane to make room for 3 of their employees who were flying standby. If I have a ticket for a flight, I agree with being given the option of taking another flight. But for United to physically remove the customer is the kiss of death.

Read the back of your ticket. You are not GUARANTEED a spot on the flight. Airlines regularly overbooked flights knowing that 5-10% of customers never show up.

The passengers were offered $800 and a different flight. When nobody agreed they went to the Lottery system that is apparently Standard Procedure (remember that bit about your seat not being guaranteed).

If it was due to overbooking, it would be different. These 4 passengers were booted so United could shuttle 4 employees (who were flying standby).

 

[Divine Wind]

No connections in Louisville. It looks like United had a last minute problem with an airliner and needed to send four crew members to Louisville. Better to inconvenience 4 passengers in Chicago than strand 130 passengers in Louisville for lack of crewmembers.

Cancelling or delaying a flight is not that unusual. Inconvenience should not involve violently removing a passenger.

They should have deplaned everyone. The only reboarded those who were authorized. Again, the plane wasn't leaving with a belligerent and violent passenger on board.

Again, the man was not belligerent or violent until they forcibly removed him. He was not acting out before that.

He failed to deplane when asked. That, in itself, is a Federal rule violation. He could face jail time and/or a $10,000 fine. Let's not forget he was disobeying police officers. What do you think the result would be if you and I refused to leave a restaurant at closing and the owners called the cops?

Illinois General Assembly - Illinois Compiled Statutes
(625 ILCS 5/11-203) (from Ch. 95 1/2, par. 11-203)
Sec. 11-203. Obedience to police officers. No person shall wilfully fail or refuse to comply with any lawful order or direction of any police officer, fireman, person authorized by a local authority to direct traffic, or school crossing guard invested by law with authority to direct, control, or regulate traffic. Any person convicted of violating this Section is guilty of a petty offense and shall be subject to a mandatory fine of $150.
(Source: P.A. 98-396, eff. 1-1-14.)

Interfering With a Flight Attendant or Crewmember | Criminal Law

49 U.S. Code § 46504 - Interference with flight crew members and attendants
An individual on an aircraft in the special aircraft jurisdiction of the United States who, by assaulting or intimidating a flight crew member or flight attendant of the aircraft, interferes with the performance of the duties of the member or attendant or lessens the ability of the member or attendant to perform those duties, or attempts or conspires to do such an act, shall be fined under title 18, imprisoned for not more than 20 years, or both. However, if a dangerous weapon is used in assaulting or intimidating the member or attendant, the individual shall be imprisoned for any term of years or for life.

(Pub. L. 103–272, § 1(e), July 5, 1994, 108 Stat. 1244; Pub. L. 107–56, title VIII, § 811(i), Oct. 26, 2001, 115 Stat. 382.)

Unruly aircraft passenger - Wikipedia

 

[Anathema]

If it was due to overbooking, it would be different. These 4 passengers were booted so United could shuttle 4 employees (who were flying standby).

It was overbooked... by the 4 stands passengers. Anyone who thinks that UA is the only airline that would do this is a fool. They needed that other crew at the destination. It didn't matter if UA had to murder r paying customers, there were going to be released empty seats available on that flight.

 

[Divine Wind]

As I understand it, United pulled the paying customer off the plane to make room for 3 of their employees who were flying standby. If I have a ticket for a flight, I agree with being given the option of taking another flight. But for United to physically remove the customer is the kiss of death.

Read the back of your ticket. You are not GUARANTEED a spot on the flight. Airlines regularly overbooked flights knowing that 5-10% of customers never show up.

The passengers were offered $800 and a different flight. When nobody agreed they went to the Lottery system that is apparently Standard Procedure (remember that bit about your seat not being guaranteed).

If it was due to overbooking, it would be different. These 4 passengers were booted so United could shuttle 4 employees (who were flying standby).

Again, I suspect this wasn't a scheduled operation, but comes under Force Majeure. Regardless, the man was wrong to disobey police officers and deplane.

 

[HenryBHough]

United will get used to flying with empty planes.

Hey, they brought it on themselves.

 

[saveliberty]

That is a big reach there Divine. Bottom line, the traveling public will remember this for a while and it will effect the profitability of United.

 

[Divine Wind]

The police. The plane would never leave the gate with an unstable passenger on board. Four people were asked to deplane and only one nutjob refused. Doctor or not, that guy was unstable.

That was the 5:40PM flight from Chicago to Louisville. There was another one at 9pm.

And did he have a connecting flight or an important appointment?

If it was just a matter of overbooking, I might be more lenient with United. Not much, but maybe a little. They removed 4 paying passengers so they could transport their own employees who were flying standby. That is simply unacceptable.

No connections in Louisville. It looks like United had a last minute problem with an airliner and needed to send four crew members to Louisville. Better to inconvenience 4 passengers in Chicago than strand 130 passengers in Louisville for lack of crewmembers.

According to what I have read, the employees needed to work the following day. Why not fly the standby employees on the 9pm flight?

Crew rest rules. Do you really want an airline to be crewed by people who only had 3 hours of sleep in the last 24 hours?

Again, the appears to be a last minute problem. If the crewmembers were regularly scheduled to do that flight then they'd have been boarded previously. The four passengers who deplaned would never have been onboard.

FWIW, when there are no volunteers the airlines usually go to the cheapest tickets and the last to check in. So if you are buying your ticket off Orbitz or Hotwire, make sure you check in an hour or two prior to avoid being deplaned off a crowded flight.

About as much as I would like my doctor to have had 3 hours of sleep in the last 24 hrs. To have the flight the following day covered United could have shuffled their employee rosters. This entire thing was because United did not want to be inconvenienced.

And if they had gone with the cheapest tickets or the last one to check in it would be one thing. For all we know the man in the video paid top price for the section and checked in first.

Nonetheless, crew rest rules are federal law. The next morning's flight would have either been canceled or delayed by several hours. Again, better to inconvenience 4 than 130.

You are free to believe they pulled off that one man because he was Vietnamese, but the reality is that it's based on lowest ticket price and check-in time. This will come out in court if the airline presses charges against the passenger if he sues the airline. Again, the airline's PR department would prefer this to go away, but if the passenger decides to sue, the airline will literally make a federal case out of it and that doctor will be convicted of violating Federal law.

 

[Divine Wind]

That is a big reach there Divine. Bottom line, the traveling public will remember this for a while and it will effect the profitability of United.

What's the big reach? I'm telling you that's the way it is.

Yeah, yeah. People will scream "I'll never fly United airlines again!!!!" then when it's the only airline going to Buttfuck, MS or the cheapest ticket on Orbitz, they'll board the airline like sheep. Baaa!

 

[Anathema]

The one thing I'll say I disagree with UA on is this..... The lottery for which passengers would be booted should have taken place BEFORE boarding. You can't tell me they didn't know about the issue before boarding started.

 

[Divine Wind]

United will get used to flying with empty planes.

Hey, they brought it on themselves.

$1000 says you are wrong. Bet?

 

[Divine Wind]

The one thing I'll say I disagree with UA on is this..... The lottery for which passengers would be booted should have taken place BEFORE boarding. You can't tell me they didn't know about the issue before boarding started.

Normally, that's the case. This is why I think it's a Force Majeure situation. Typically, either the regular crew was trapped somewhere else due to weather or a mechanical problem.

 

[WinterBorn]

If it was due to overbooking, it would be different. These 4 passengers were booted so United could shuttle 4 employees (who were flying standby).

It was overbooked... by the 4 stands passengers. Anyone who thinks that UA is the only airline that would do this is a fool. They needed that other crew at the destination. It didn't matter if UA had to murder r paying customers, there were going to be released empty seats available on that flight.

And this particular event will cost United a bundle. YOu talked, in another thread, about the difference between what people CAN do and what they SHOULD do. This is a classic example.

 

[WinterBorn]

If it was due to overbooking, it would be different. These 4 passengers were booted so United could shuttle 4 employees (who were flying standby).

It was overbooked... by the 4 stands passengers. Anyone who thinks that UA is the only airline that would do this is a fool. They needed that other crew at the destination. It didn't matter if UA had to murder r paying customers, there were going to be released empty seats available on that flight.

The very nature of flying "standby" is that you do not have a seat booked.

 

[WinterBorn]

And did he have a connecting flight or an important appointment?

If it was just a matter of overbooking, I might be more lenient with United. Not much, but maybe a little. They removed 4 paying passengers so they could transport their own employees who were flying standby. That is simply unacceptable.

No connections in Louisville. It looks like United had a last minute problem with an airliner and needed to send four crew members to Louisville. Better to inconvenience 4 passengers in Chicago than strand 130 passengers in Louisville for lack of crewmembers.

According to what I have read, the employees needed to work the following day. Why not fly the standby employees on the 9pm flight?

Crew rest rules. Do you really want an airline to be crewed by people who only had 3 hours of sleep in the last 24 hours?

Again, the appears to be a last minute problem. If the crewmembers were regularly scheduled to do that flight then they'd have been boarded previously. The four passengers who deplaned would never have been onboard.

FWIW, when there are no volunteers the airlines usually go to the cheapest tickets and the last to check in. So if you are buying your ticket off Orbitz or Hotwire, make sure you check in an hour or two prior to avoid being deplaned off a crowded flight.

About as much as I would like my doctor to have had 3 hours of sleep in the last 24 hrs. To have the flight the following day covered United could have shuffled their employee rosters. This entire thing was because United did not want to be inconvenienced.

And if they had gone with the cheapest tickets or the last one to check in it would be one thing. For all we know the man in the video paid top price for the section and checked in first.

Nonetheless, crew rest rules are federal law. The next morning's flight would have either been canceled or delayed by several hours. Again, better to inconvenience 4 than 130.

You are free to believe they pulled off that one man because he was Vietnamese, but the reality is that it's based on lowest ticket price and check-in time. This will come out in court if the airline presses charges against the passenger if he sues the airline. Again, the airline's PR department would prefer this to go away, but if the passenger decides to sue, the airline will literally make a federal case out of it and that doctor will be convicted of violating Federal law.

No, they stated that they pulled them off according to a randomly selected group of 4.

 

[Divine Wind]

If it was due to overbooking, it would be different. These 4 passengers were booted so United could shuttle 4 employees (who were flying standby).

It was overbooked... by the 4 stands passengers. Anyone who thinks that UA is the only airline that would do this is a fool. They needed that other crew at the destination. It didn't matter if UA had to murder r paying customers, there were going to be released empty seats available on that flight.

And this particular event will cost United a bundle. YOu talked, in another thread, about the difference between what people CAN do and what they SHOULD do. This is a classic example.

People who violate the law should prepare to pay the consequences.