United States Imperialism

[francoHFW]

To some of those headbangers anyone who isn't a fascist is a communist, they were on the wrong side in WW2.

True, and who was on the wrong side?

 

[westwall]

Yes you are a functional moron. And 100% wrong as always As always l o l....

I will happily accept functional moron over you, a brain dead, fascist, any time.

 

[Dayton3]

I will happily crept functional moron over you, a brain dead, fascist, any time.

I'm not.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

No these rebels were for democracy and getting rid of Gaddafi and were supported by the Italians and the French and us. And Gaddafi was a scumbag terrorist dictator. And Kosovo is an independent country and Clinton got us out of there with no boots on the ground or casualties, just like Obama in Libya. As opposed to your huge GOP send in the 82nd airborne disasters

i’m afraid you are mistaken when you argue that the main groups opposed to Gaddafi were “for democracy.” In any case it was early on crystal clear that the real interests of the West in getting rid of Gaddafi was not about “democracy” at all.

Obama himself admitted that blindly following the advice of his European NATO allies (whose companies sought control of Libyan oil) and his own neocon / neo- liberal advisers — was the worst mistake of his Presidency:

Barack Obama says Libya was 'worst mistake' of his presidency

‘Failing to plan’ for the aftermath of Muammar Gaddafi’s downfall is the US president’s biggest regret from his time in office

www.theguardian.com

The endless civil war that has destroyed Libya and its people and led to more waves of desperate North African refugees flooding into Europe … at least initially was almost wholly the responsibility of arrogant Western imperialism, a classic case of inappropriate and illegal military adventurism.

Gaddafi was certainly a crazy dictator and an irritant to the West, but years before he was savagely murdered he was no longer engaging in active international terrorism, opposed Arab Islamic fanaticism, and was seeking a practical detente with the West. He also saw to it that much of the country’s oil wealth got to his own people, whose standard of living was among the highest in all of Africa.

***

On Kosovo you are right that it is an “independent country” now, but only because the U.S. decided to make it one. The break-up of Yugoslavia had been encouraged by German and other European nations who had economic interests there. Of course Serbian nationalists and all the newly emerging national leaders in ex-Yugoslavia were adamant and chauvinistic back then. As in other cases of inter-penetrated peoples, for example in the case of parts of the Soviet Union, when communist regimes (in this case Tito’s) collapse, massacres and bloody civil wars follow all too often.

The U.S. finally tired of European unwillingness to act decisively and intervened. It decided (with NATO cover) to bomb Bosnian Serbs and Belgrade itself. The West in the case of ex-Yugoslavia ended up defending virtually everybody’s “right to self-determination.” That the Serbs were backed by Russia made the decision that much easier. Of course Kosovo Independence was established last, long after the outrageous massacre at the supposedly UN protected Srebrenica sanctuary where 8,000 Muslim men and boys were killed as UN European peacekeepers shamefully stood by in July of 1995. Kosovo, however, did not become independent until 2008 and is still not recognized by about half the countries of the world, many of them countries unwilling to allow independence to their own national minorities or remnant peoples within their own territory who demand it.

 

[francoHFW]

i’m afraid you are mistaken when you argue that the main groups opposed to Gaddafi were “for democracy.” In any case it was early on crystal clear that the real interests of the West in getting rid of Gaddafi was not about “democracy” at all.

Obama himself admitted that blindly following the advice of his European NATO allies (whose companies sought control of Libyan oil) and his own neocon / neo- liberal advisers — was the worst mistake of his Presidency:

Barack Obama says Libya was 'worst mistake' of his presidency

‘Failing to plan’ for the aftermath of Muammar Gaddafi’s downfall is the US president’s biggest regret from his time in office

www.theguardian.com

The endless civil war that has destroyed Libya and its people and led to more waves of desperate North African refugees flooding into Europe … at least initially was almost wholly the responsibility of arrogant Western imperialism, a classic case of inappropriate and illegal military adventurism.

Gaddafi was certainly a crazy dictator and an irritant to the West, but years before he was savagely murdered he was no longer engaging in active international terrorism, opposed Arab Islamic fanaticism, and was seeking a practical detente with the West. He also saw to it that much of the country’s oil wealth got to his own people, whose standard of living was among the highest in all of Africa.

***

On Kosovo you are right that it is an “independent country” now, but only because the U.S. decided to make it one. The break-up of Yugoslavia had been encouraged by German and other European nations who had economic interests there. Of course Serbian nationalists and all the newly emerging national leaders in ex-Yugoslavia were adamant and chauvinistic back then. As in other cases of inter-penetrated peoples, for example in the case of parts of the Soviet Union, when communist regimes (in this case Tito’s) collapse, massacres and bloody civil wars follow all too often.

The U.S. finally tired of European unwillingness to act decisively and intervened. It decided (with NATO cover) to bomb Bosnian Serbs and Belgrade itself. The West in the case of ex-Yugoslavia ended up defending virtually everybody’s “right to self-determination.” That the Serbs were backed by Russia made the decision that much easier. Of course Kosovo Independence was established last, long after the outrageous massacre at the supposedly UN protected Srebrenica sanctuary where 8,000 Muslim men and boys were killed as UN European peacekeepers shamefully stood by in July of 1995. Kosovo, however, did not become independent until 2008 and is still not recognized by about half the countries of the world, many of them countries unwilling to allow independence to their own national minorities or remnant peoples within their own territory who demand it.

The Democratic record is so much better than the Republican one since Nixon it is ridiculous...AND another corrupt GOP deregulation Bubble and bust world depression and the chaos that follows....

Screw Gaddafi and screw Serbia LOL. Obama can't be blamed for the world chaos the GOP loves causing with their corrupt world depressions and great recessions,,,,

 

[Kruska]

I didn't say the US wasn't involved, I simply asked you to post where you see that it IS INVOLVED.

HA HA. Yeah, I KNOW you said "is constantly involved in instigating political unrest". and that's exactly WHY I asked you to show where it IS involved in doing that, which is also asking you to show HOW it is doing that. And i dont recall seeing anything from you SHOWING (with source links) HOW that is happening.

I haven't seen a shred of evidence from you, beyond your proclamations, >>> "that the USA, founded, trained and supported terrorist organizations all over the planet - of which some even then reverted to attack US targets, such as US embassies, US civilians, ships, some buildings in NY and also EU targets, right down to bombing, maiming and murdering approx. 20-25,000 Han and Uighur's in China, foremost in Xinjiang."

I am neither accepting nor denying what you say. All I'm doing is saying >> Lots of accusation here. Where's the proof ? Got sources ? Got links ? Got anything ?

Learn how to research and read up facts and history by yourself, if you want to participate in such threads, I am not your link assistant.
And people asking for links and sources in regards to KNOWN facts - should participate in political forums only to ask questions and to learn, and not to formulate and post nonsensical statements at all, questioning or refuting FACTS. It's called dumb behavior and wasting peoples time.

 

[francoHFW]

I will happily accept functional moron over you, a brain dead, fascist, any time.

I'm a fascist in what way, ignoramus? Trump is the fascist wannabe actually more like a Putin wannabe. I Predict he will end up in Russia if Putin lasts long enough trump really wants to be a corrupt oligarch

 

[francoHFW]

Learn how to research and read up facts and history by yourself, if you want to participate in such threads, I am not your link assistant.
And people asking for links and sources in regards to KNOWN facts - should participate in political forums only to ask questions and to learn, and not to formulate and post nonsensical statements at all, questioning or refuting FACTS. It's called dumb behavior and wasting peoples time.

these GOP base types listen to only Fox and Internet conspiracy nuts and actually know nothing, and believe it is communist to use Google. Poor America

 

[protectionist]

Learn how to research and read up facts and history by yourself, if you want to participate in such threads, I am not your link assistant.
And people asking for links and sources in regards to KNOWN facts - should participate in political forums only to ask questions and to learn, and not to formulate and post nonsensical statements at all, questioning or refuting FACTS. It's called dumb behavior and wasting peoples time.

What you may think is "known" to you (from leftist media) may not t all be known to millions of others who don't watch that media. I have seen countless examples of people who dont see conservative media completely oblivious to things that conservative have talked about for years.

Your et al surprise at the idea of remittance imperialism is one example. Talked about on conservative media frequently. Never whisper on leftwing media.

And asking is exactly what I DID DO. And answering is wht you DID NOT DO. And I should not have had to ask in the first place, You should have supplied source links to back up your claims. You think we all just take whatever you say on faith ?

 

[protectionist]

I'm a fascist in what way, ignoramus? Trump is the fascist wannabe actually more like a Putin wannabe. I Predict he will end up in Russia if Putin lasts long enough trump really wants to be a corrupt oligarch

You have it backwards. Trump is the victim of US fascism in the constant witch hunts, slanders, deplatforming on social media, and now the ludicrous, politically-motivated indictments.

 

[protectionist]

No i don't, it's more likely the Poles or those Baltic yapping dogs will do something more stupid than they already have against Russia. still doesn't change the fact that Nato is not defensive, it may have started out that way but not now.

It shows that NATO is defensive, as Russia will attack a former Soviet satellite to reunite the union, which is not part of NATO, but won't attack the former Soviet satellite countries that are NATO united.

 

[protectionist]

these GOP base types listen to only Fox and Internet conspiracy nuts and actually know nothing, and believe it is communist to use Google. Poor America

Where in the world do you get these wackamole ideas ? Looks like CNN/MSNBC are getting some pretty far-out commentators these days. Sheeesh!

 

[protectionist]

Kosovo, And Gaddafi was attacking rebels with tanks. We just beat them to it.

the country is not depraved, it's the right wingers as usual....

Kosovo was Bill Clinton. Gaddafi was Obama. Those weren't the USA attacking. Those were Democrats attacking.

 

[protectionist]

Eisenhower was wrong

About what ?

 

[protectionist]

Oh nonsense, I have been a businessman here in the US.

Want to know the largest threat that is killing businesses in the US? People deciding to spend their money online and purchasing most of their stuff directly from overseas.

You really do have a simplistic concept of how commerce works, don't you?

It is NOT nonsense, it is FACT. And the fact that you call it nonsense, shows that YOU are nonsense.

And you do not dismiss a fact, by changing the subject, and bringing up another fact. I said nothing about "largest", or smallest, and any size in between.

And talking about remittance imperialism is part of how commerce (in disadvantage to US business) works, not the totality.

Saying dumb things doesnt get you to win debates in computer forums.

 

[protectionist]

Not really, of course most people really have no real concept of what the Indians were like, or how they lived.

I bet if asked most people could name off a dozen or so tribes, and almost all of them have something in common. Those were the more aggressive and warlike tribes that were fighting others long before Europeans even arrived on the Continent. For example, two that most will almost always talk about are the Apache and Lakota. Both of which were very aggressive and attacked anybody they came in contact with.

In fact, the Lakota have a special place in that. Yes, their Reservation is now in the Dakotas, but they were originally from the Lower Mississippi region. They were a highly nomadic tribe, that first started their wandering when the Mississippian Culture imploded in the early 15th century. They then wandered up the Mississippi, until they reached the Great Lakes. There the Council of the Three Fires (an Anishinaabe alliance) defeated them and they turned West. And ran across tribe after tribe, each time resulting in years of warfare between them.

Now that meeting with the Anishinaabe was at roughly the time that Europeans started to arrive on the coast, and where they got the nickname they are most well known for. "Sioux", an Ojibwe word for a small rattlesnake. And that name preceded them as they continued west, bashing their way through tribe after tribe. In essence, they were an American version of the Huns, Mongols, and a great many nomadic Eurasian bands. In over 300 years of wandering they never once settled down to make a home, they were always on the move.

By the time "White Man" discovered them, they were in the border area between Minnesota and Wisconsin. By the time the Americans came in contact with them they were in the Dakotas and Wyoming. Do not forget that what they claimed as their "homeland" of the Black Hills actually belonged to the Cheyenne and Crow. The Lakota arrived in the late 1700s and pushed out the other tribes. But do not think they were settling down, as by the mid 1800s they were moving in on western Wyoming and coming into conflict with the Shoshone.

If not for being finally pinned down on a reservation, they would have likely ended up in the Portland area by this time. And likely would have then had to make a decision, to turn north or south.

Most of the tribes were actually pretty peaceful, but that often changed when they came into contact with the more warlike bands like the Lakota. Early trappers who met many like the Shoshone, Crow, Arapaho, and others in that area found them to be rather peaceful people. Sacagawea was from the Shoshone and they had yet to become aggressive as they had not yet had contact with the Lakota. However, things were very different 6 decades later when they came into contact with Americans again.

By that time they had been skirmishing with the Lakota for decades, and had become much more warlike. And after a few battles tensions quickly eased off when they realized that most of those "settlers" they had been attacking were on their way to Oregon and not intending to settle near them.

But not all tribes were simple hunter-gatherers. Many were at the time the Europeans arrived exploring basic metallurgy and had some great skills in hybridization and selective breeding to create new crops. But they never had the population density to require the kind of agriculture that was used in Eurasia. Making a farm is a labor intensive operation (especially with no beasts of burden that can be used to assist like oxen), and simply not needed when most of the land is wide open and available. And for the few groups that did start to make that leap from basic hinter-gathering living, most did not last very long.

Most know of the Aztecs, the most populous in two continents. But we had the Mississippian Culture at about the same time, and they did not survive. They had huge cities, canals, and were even building monolithic earthworks. However, it did not survive and over half a century before Columbus even arrive it imploded and fragmented into multiple aggressive and hostile bands that then scattered. That is believed to be a major reason why the farther from that area the settlers settled, the more peaceful the natives were. The ones that had been once a part of the Mississippians or associated with them carried a xenophobia that caused them to be aggressive to almost any other groups of people.

And yes, there was also a religious aspect to it as the Mississippians and many of the tribes they spawned still practiced human sacrifice. Something the Europeans detested and did all they could to crush. One of the last recorded being the Pawnee, the last "official" record of that ritual was in 1838. But many believe it was still done in secret for another decade or so until it finally died out completely.

Probably the worst tribe were the Comanches, who warred against and defeated the Apache, and were so bad that the Mexican government invited US Texans to Texas (then part of Mexico), to help fight off the Comanches. The resulting large Texas settlement became partially a cause of the American-Mexican war,1846.

 

[Kruska]

He did speak of it initially. He should have done it. There’d be no war in Ukraine had he done it. NATO is nothing but a warlike alliance designed to enrich the MIC at American’s expense.

I‘m certain you agree.

You seem to believe that NATO is an independent European organization, "misusing" the USA?

Fact is that NATO is 100% owned, directed and controlled by the US government. NATO is nothing else but an extension of the US Armed Forces and the US governments political global agenda. To state that the USA taxpayer is financing NATO is absurd in regards to the European and Canadian defense budgets - that derive from their own countries taxes.

That the USA is spending at average 2-3 times the % that Europe and Canada are spending is obvious - since the USA is the one to pursue global military and political dominance.
Since the USA want's/needs NATO to join and support them in their global quest - naturally the USA expects a larger % commitment. But NATO aside from having committed themselves to having screwed up and destroyed Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria has no own political goals outside of Europe.

Individual NATO members that share the US Imperialistic mindset - e.g. UK, Turkey and Poland are therefore in line with the 2% commitment. The European NATO members despite their budget shortcomings are at any given time easily able to counter any e.g. Russian expansionist moves onto NATO territory. The only factual support given by the USA towards NATO since 1990 is it's own nuclear arsenal, that keeps the worlds nuclear arsenal in balance. However France and the UK factually posses enough own nuclear weapons to screw up the planet.

Since Ukraine "thank God" is not a NATO member, article 5 doesn't come into the picture - since the USA is the driving force behind NATO's Eastward-Expansion - right up to China, naturally they - the USA, needs to cough up the $$ in regards to Ukraine. Therefore the USA uses it's political influence and leverage amongst European countries, and spreads warmongering propaganda towards Russia's supposed expansionist plans, to make those European NATO idiots pay for their (USA) proxy war in Ukraine and the coming one planed in regards to China.

Though at many times since 1990 - several European countries have propagated an own European military alliance (due to their obvious different political and economic agenda), the USA with help from it's foremost NATO serfs, the UK, Canada and Poland, (partially also Germany and Italy, depending on the respective government) have successfully hindered/prevented and independent European military alliance.

Whilst at the same time the human scumbag came up to propagate the USA from pulling out of NATO, - by-far the most ridiculous and mendacious statement ever forwarded by a US President in regards to a national policy that inherently carries imperialism and global control, since the very existence of the USA.

The reason why Trump doesn't favor war, is that he does not posses the economic/political connections to the industrial war complex - such as e.g. the Bush Family or other US presidents. Who have also been running up and down in US politics for decades and are therefore in knowledge and overall political/economic connections.

He is solely into property development and making MAGA caps and stuff in China or maybe N-Korea. Therefore war does not contribute to his pocket - but factually hinders, disrupts his major income prospects.

 

[Kruska]

What you may think is "known" to you (from leftist media) may not t all be known to millions of others who don't watch that media. I have seen countless examples of people who dont see conservative media completely oblivious to things that conservative have talked about for years.

Your et al surprise at the idea of remittance imperialism is one example. Talked about on conservative media frequently. Never whisper on leftwing media.

And asking is exactly what I DID DO. And answering is wht you DID NOT DO. And I should not have had to ask in the first place, You should have supplied source links to back up your claims. You think we all just take whatever you say on faith ?

Why should anyone feel the need to provide - "political don't know anything's" like you, with known facts? - you are simply wasting peoples time.
Do your own research - based on facts, and not based on political agendas of the respective MSM's or political parties propagated bullshit.

I know you can't - you obviously are simply not able to. See your "remittance" crap - pure MAGA Bull, ignoring factual economic occurrences and the relationship between investing and drawing profits out of an investment - you talk the same Communist crap, that some Chinese bring into a discussion when stating:

These damn Western imperialists - only invest in China to exploit our workers, making huge profits and taking their profits out of China. Their managers get huge salaries and special income tax preferences - taking that income out of China, whilst spewing anti-China propaganda.

Obviously you must be a Commie.
Shame on you. I despise Commies and Lefty&Libs.

 

[westwall]

I'm a fascist in what way, ignoramus? Trump is the fascist wannabe actually more like a Putin wannabe. I Predict he will end up in Russia if Putin lasts long enough trump really wants to be a corrupt oligarch

In EVERY way, dumbass. You want to censor speech, you want to ban guns, etc.

All trademarks of fascism.

 

[gipper]

You seem to believe that NATO is an independent European organization, "misusing" the USA?

Fact is that NATO is 100% owned, directed and controlled by the US government. NATO is nothing else but an extension of the US Armed Forces and the US governments political global agenda. To state that the USA taxpayer is financing NATO is absurd in regards to the European and Canadian defense budgets - that derive from their own countries taxes.

That the USA is spending at average 2-3 times the % that Europe and Canada are spending is obvious - since the USA is the one to pursue global military and political dominance.
Since the USA want's/needs NATO to join and support them in their global quest - naturally the USA expects a larger % commitment. But NATO aside from having committed themselves to having screwed up and destroyed Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria has no own political goals outside of Europe.

Individual NATO members that share the US Imperialistic mindset - e.g. UK, Turkey and Poland are therefore in line with the 2% commitment. The European NATO members despite their budget shortcomings are at any given time easily able to counter any e.g. Russian expansionist moves onto NATO territory. The only factual support given by the USA towards NATO since 1990 is it's own nuclear arsenal, that keeps the worlds nuclear arsenal in balance. However France and the UK factually posses enough own nuclear weapons to screw up the planet.

Since Ukraine "thank God" is not a NATO member, article 5 doesn't come into the picture - since the USA is the driving force behind NATO's Eastward-Expansion - right up to China, naturally they - the USA, needs to cough up the $$ in regards to Ukraine. Therefore the USA uses it's political influence and leverage amongst European countries, and spreads warmongering propaganda towards Russia's supposed expansionist plans, to make those European NATO idiots pay for their (USA) proxy war in Ukraine and the coming one planed in regards to China.

Though at many times since 1990 - several European countries have propagated an own European military alliance (due to their obvious different political and economic agenda), the USA with help from it's foremost NATO serfs, the UK, Canada and Poland, (partially also Germany and Italy, depending on the respective government) have successfully hindered/prevented and independent European military alliance.

Whilst at the same time the human scumbag came up to propagate the USA from pulling out of NATO, - by-far the most ridiculous and mendacious statement ever forwarded by a US President in regards to a national policy that inherently carries imperialism and global control, since the very existence of the USA.

The reason why Trump doesn't favor war, is that he does not posses the economic/political connections to the industrial war complex - such as e.g. the Bush Family or other US presidents. Who have also been running up and down in US politics for decades and are therefore in knowledge and overall political/economic connections.

He is solely into property development and making MAGA caps and stuff in China or maybe N-Korea. Therefore war does not contribute to his pocket - but factually hinders, disrupts his major income prospects.

You misunderstand. Of course NATO is controlled by the US.