USA was really really dumb to move so much manufacturing to China

[Harpy Eagle]

Over regulation making it too expensive to manufacture here.

The USDA approved shipping chickens to China for processing and then having then shipped back.

It should not be cheaper to send chickens to China for processing.

Over regulation is only a small part of it. Wages were a large part of it as well. The problem with the standard of living going up across the country is that everyone has to be paid more to survive. Nobody was whining when they were buying the things from China for half the cost of US made things.

I was. So much of it is shit.

You are being a simpleton, GG.

No, I am being a realist. Your desire to blame the big evil government overlooks the role the private companies played as well as the role the US consumer played. WalMart did not force anyone to buy Chinese shit.

Also, much of it was shit just as much of what Japan sent was shit when we first started to use them for cheap labor. Over time that has changed. Some of the best made stuff now comes from China, like it or not.

 

[ColonelAngus]

It should not be cheaper to send chickens to China for processing.

FACT CHECK: Is China Re-Shipping Processed Chickens Back to the U.S.?

Mixture?

Why should it even be a thought.? Why did the USDA give the option? Seems dangerous to me,.

If you’re arguing that we don’t have too many regulation, I don’t think you are arguing in good faith.

 

[Andylusion]

We are so vulnerable. Look, China won’t even deliver masks to the USA manufactured by American owned companies.

What a colossal geo political blunder by some many stupid swamp creatures.

If China makes all of our shit, doesn’t that make us beholden to them? We can just tell them to pound sand. He rely on them.

So fucked.

TPP? So fucking stupid.

It was not swamp creatures that moved things to China, it was the private companies making business decisions. These same companies where a CEO can be fired for a bad quarter, where profits are all that matters.

To blame this on the government is just fucking stupid

Over regulation making it too expensive to manufacture here.

The USDA approved shipping chickens to China for processing and then having then shipped back.

It should not be cheaper to send chickens to China for processing.

A business shouldn't be allowed to do this because we won't allow waste run off to pollute the water sources.

You people LOL.....

Do you not realize you just blew up your own position? In the other post you were saying companies should be able to manufacture stuff in the US. Then someone pointed out something we can't manufacture, and you justified making it impossible to manufacture here.

You guys can't even go 2 posts without contradicting yourself.

 

[anynameyouwish]

We are so vulnerable. Look, China won’t even deliver masks to the USA manufactured by American owned companies.

What a colossal geo political blunder by some many stupid swamp creatures.

If China makes all of our shit, doesn’t that make us beholden to them? We can just tell them to pound sand. He rely on them.

So fucked.

TPP? So fucking stupid.

I sure hope you PROUDLY wear your MAGA hat....made in china.....

 

[ColonelAngus]

The vast majority of corporations care less what is best for the country. They care only for their profits.

Of course they want the country to run to their protection when they feel wronged by the country they moved to.

And you yourself are no different. If you were pushed into a position where you could either make a contract with Canada, or you could be unemployed and homeless, you are going to choose making a contract with Canada.

So don't even attempt to suggest you would act any differently, because you wouldn't. Only in your mythological world would you keep manufacturing here, when it would harm you personally to do so.

No one can convince me that the USA can't make a plastic shoe that retails for $50 profitably.

And that is why left-wingers are terrible at economics. You have not looked at a single bit of evidence, not a single balance sheet, not a single research paper, nothing.... and without having even made an attempt to research the matter, have already proclaimed your conclusion.

That alone is why Venezuela, Cuba, North Korea, even the Greek crash, why all those places end up in ruins.

I've said this story before, and I'll repeat it here. I worked at a company where we were hired to make a specific product, for a specific price the customer was willing to pay.

We ran the numbers multiple times. It was impossible to make a profit on these products here. So we were left with one of two options... either outsource, or not do the project. No point in building something, and employing people, to end up with a loss of money. So we outsourced to China.

You can't run a company on a loss. The short term gain of having created a dozen jobs, will be out weighted by the long term loss of dozens of jobs when the company closes.

Greedy capitalist!

Corporate profits are evil! Just Starbucks and Apple and Whole Foods.

 

[pknopp]

We are so vulnerable. Look, China won’t even deliver masks to the USA manufactured by American owned companies.

What a colossal geo political blunder by some many stupid swamp creatures.

If China makes all of our shit, doesn’t that make us beholden to them? We can just tell them to pound sand. He rely on them.

So fucked.

TPP? So fucking stupid.

It was not swamp creatures that moved things to China, it was the private companies making business decisions. These same companies where a CEO can be fired for a bad quarter, where profits are all that matters.

To blame this on the government is just fucking stupid

Over regulation making it too expensive to manufacture here.

The USDA approved shipping chickens to China for processing and then having then shipped back.

It should not be cheaper to send chickens to China for processing.

A business shouldn't be allowed to do this because we won't allow waste run off to pollute the water sources.

You people LOL.....

Do you not realize you just blew up your own position? In the other post you were saying companies should be able to manufacture stuff in the US. Then someone pointed out something we can't manufacture, and you justified making it impossible to manufacture here.

You guys can't even go 2 posts without contradicting yourself.

We can process chickens. We have for centuries.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

It should not be cheaper to send chickens to China for processing.

FACT CHECK: Is China Re-Shipping Processed Chickens Back to the U.S.?

Mixture?

Why should it even be a thought.? Why did the USDA give the option? Seems dangerous to me,.

If you’re arguing that we don’t have too many regulation, I don’t think you are arguing in good faith.

You complain about too many regulations and then complain when the USDA did not add more regulations.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

We are so vulnerable. Look, China won’t even deliver masks to the USA manufactured by American owned companies.

What a colossal geo political blunder by some many stupid swamp creatures.

If China makes all of our shit, doesn’t that make us beholden to them? We can just tell them to pound sand. He rely on them.

So fucked.

TPP? So fucking stupid.

It was not swamp creatures that moved things to China, it was the private companies making business decisions. These same companies where a CEO can be fired for a bad quarter, where profits are all that matters.

To blame this on the government is just fucking stupid

Over regulation making it too expensive to manufacture here.

The USDA approved shipping chickens to China for processing and then having then shipped back.

It should not be cheaper to send chickens to China for processing.

A business shouldn't be allowed to do this because we won't allow waste run off to pollute the water sources.

You people LOL.....

Do you not realize you just blew up your own position? In the other post you were saying companies should be able to manufacture stuff in the US. Then someone pointed out something we can't manufacture, and you justified making it impossible to manufacture here.

You guys can't even go 2 posts without contradicting yourself.

We can process chickens. We have for centuries.

Yes we can, but the people here want to make 30 grand a year doing it and the people in other places will do it for 5 grand a year.

 

[pknopp]

It was not swamp creatures that moved things to China, it was the private companies making business decisions. These same companies where a CEO can be fired for a bad quarter, where profits are all that matters.

To blame this on the government is just fucking stupid

Over regulation making it too expensive to manufacture here.

The USDA approved shipping chickens to China for processing and then having then shipped back.

It should not be cheaper to send chickens to China for processing.

A business shouldn't be allowed to do this because we won't allow waste run off to pollute the water sources.

You people LOL.....

Do you not realize you just blew up your own position? In the other post you were saying companies should be able to manufacture stuff in the US. Then someone pointed out something we can't manufacture, and you justified making it impossible to manufacture here.

You guys can't even go 2 posts without contradicting yourself.

We can process chickens. We have for centuries.

Yes we can, but the people here want to make 30 grand a year doing it and the people in other places will do it for 5 grand a year.

If the job isn't here the people that were making 30k now make 12k on welfare. We also buy their chicken for them.

 

[Andylusion]

Over regulation making it too expensive to manufacture here.

The USDA approved shipping chickens to China for processing and then having then shipped back.

It should not be cheaper to send chickens to China for processing.

Over regulation is only a small part of it. Wages were a large part of it as well. The problem with the standard of living going up across the country is that everyone has to be paid more to survive. Nobody was whining when they were buying the things from China for half the cost of US made things.

I was. So much of it is shit.

You are being a simpleton, GG.

No, I am being a realist. Your desire to blame the big evil government overlooks the role the private companies played as well as the role the US consumer played. WalMart did not force anyone to buy Chinese shit.

Also, much of it was shit just as much of what Japan sent was shit when we first started to use them for cheap labor. Over time that has changed. Some of the best made stuff now comes from China, like it or not.

Well no, Walmart did not force anyone to buy Chinese products. The economics of it did. Do I want to pay $80 for a vacuum sweeper? Or $40? Obviously if both products are similar (and they were), and I can get an equal product for have the price (which I could), then why would I spend $80 over $40 for basically the same thing? So I bought the $40 sweeper from Walmart, and that was over 10 years ago, and it still works perfectly today.

Equally, if I need a blower for my furnace (which I did) and the US built replacement is $180 (which it was), and the Chinese imported motor is only $100 (which it was), and they are basically identical.... which am I going to buy? The Chinese one (which I did), and that was 15 years ago, and ran perfectly fine until the entire system was replaced last year.

Now the question again, is why? Why is this the case? How can it be cheaper to make a rather simple electric motor, in China, and ship it here, than it is to make that motor here?

1. Unions. Unions always drive up the cost of labor. That is one reason.
2. Taxes, although to a lesser degree after Trump
2. Regulations. Regulations place a heavy burden on business.
OMB Assess Costs and Benefits of Government Regulations

Of course, businesses pass their costs of complying with federal regulations on to consumers. In 2012, the Chambers of Commerce estimated that the total cost for Americans to comply with federal regulations reached $1.806 trillion, or more than the gross domestic products of Canada or Mexico.
​

And keep in mind this is only Federal Regulations. That does not include the cost of State regulations, which in many states is very expensive.

Now you can (as I've seen in other posts) justify everything here... but this is the reality. Either you reduce the cost to business, or you don't have jobs. It's that simple. All the justifications in the world for everything you want, doesn't magically make the economics work. If you can't make a profit from making something domestically... then it won't be made. It's that simple.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Well no, Walmart did not force anyone to buy Chinese products. The economics of it did. Do I want to pay $80 for a vacuum sweeper? Or $40? Obviously if both products are similar (and they were), and I can get an equal product for have the price (which I could), then why would I spend $80 over $40 for basically the same thing? So I bought the $40 sweeper from Walmart, and that was over 10 years ago, and it still works perfectly today.

Equally, if I need a blower for my furnace (which I did) and the US built replacement is $180 (which it was), and the Chinese imported motor is only $100 (which it was), and they are basically identical.... which am I going to buy? The Chinese one (which I did), and that was 15 years ago, and ran perfectly fine until the entire system was replaced last year.

Now the question again, is why? Why is this the case? How can it be cheaper to make a rather simple electric motor, in China, and ship it here, than it is to make that motor here?

1. Unions. Unions always drive up the cost of labor. That is one reason.
2. Taxes, although to a lesser degree after Trump
2. Regulations. Regulations place a heavy burden on business.
OMB Assess Costs and Benefits of Government Regulations

Of course, businesses pass their costs of complying with federal regulations on to consumers. In 2012, the Chambers of Commerce estimated that the total cost for Americans to comply with federal regulations reached $1.806 trillion, or more than the gross domestic products of Canada or Mexico.
​

And keep in mind this is only Federal Regulations. That does not include the cost of State regulations, which in many states is very expensive.

Now you can (as I've seen in other posts) justify everything here... but this is the reality. Either you reduce the cost to business, or you don't have jobs. It's that simple. All the justifications in the world for everything you want, doesn't magically make the economics work. If you can't make a profit from making something domestically... then it won't be made. It's that simple.

I have not justified anything, I have stated the truth of the matter. You are not going to reduce the cost to do business unless you can reduce wages, and that will not/cannot happen in this country. 2/3 of the country already lives pay check to pay check.

Taxes, especially on corporations was a smoke screen. Prior to the Trump tax cuts corporations across the board were seeing record profits. And ironically there was very little price cutting that accompanied the tax cuts, so it seems they were not the cause of the prices.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

ANY product made by an American company that is IMPORTED should have taxes so high on it that it never sells.

Buy American
Hire American
Report EVERY BUSINESS that you suspect of hiring illegals.

 

[theHawk]

Our pols has no problem selling us out to big biz . 50 years ago China was a backwards country . But USA corporate greed turned them into a powerhouse .

And Dems want to keep it that way, that’s why they oppose tariffs against them.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

ANY product made by an American company that is IMPORTED should have taxes so high on it that it never sells.

Buy American
Hire American
Report EVERY BUSINESS that you suspect of hiring illegals.

spoken like a true big government statist.

 

[Andylusion]

We are so vulnerable. Look, China won’t even deliver masks to the USA manufactured by American owned companies.

What a colossal geo political blunder by some many stupid swamp creatures.

If China makes all of our shit, doesn’t that make us beholden to them? We can just tell them to pound sand. He rely on them.

So fucked.

TPP? So fucking stupid.

It was not swamp creatures that moved things to China, it was the private companies making business decisions. These same companies where a CEO can be fired for a bad quarter, where profits are all that matters.

To blame this on the government is just fucking stupid

Profits are always what matters. It is ridiculous to think otherwise. Are you saying that if you ran the company, and it started losing money, you would sit there waiting for bankruptcy, because you don't want to make choices based on profit?

Again, this is like Bernie's own campaign staff. They demanded $15/hour, so he gave them $15/hour.... by cutting their hours. Because shockingly even for a millionaire communist... you can't pay people more money, than you have coming in.

This is like Cenk from the TYT, screaming at his staff, because they wanted to Unionize, because they don't have a stable consistent income stream like major news outlets. Suddenly the economics of the situation matters when it's your own business involved.

Profits are always what matters. Always. If you didn't make a profit from going to work, you wouldn't do it. I wouldn't for sure. Everything in society, is about profits. Without profits, there would never have been any manufacturing to move to China to begin with.

So when we blame government, because government removes profits from business with taxation, with medical mandates, with burdensome regulations.... that is an entirely valid position to have. Complaining about profits, is like complaining water falls from the sky. This is how it works. This is how it has always worked.

This is how it works even in communist countries. The only difference is, it's the government and the rich powerful elite in the government benefitting.

There's a reason Hugo Chavez's daughter is making billions off their food for oil programs, run by the Venezuela government, while making it illegal to profit off of selling food in Venezuela where people are starving.
Venezuelan 'daughters of Chavismo' exposed living lavishly overseas

Everything... EVERYTHING.... runs on profit. Now you can either have it run for the profits of the people in government, while the average people die.... or you can run things on the profits of the private sector, and end up in the most wealthy country on the face of the Earth.

You choose. But it's running on profits either way.

 

[Andylusion]

We are so vulnerable. Look, China won’t even deliver masks to the USA manufactured by American owned companies.

What a colossal geo political blunder by some many stupid swamp creatures.

If China makes all of our shit, doesn’t that make us beholden to them? We can just tell them to pound sand. He rely on them.

So fucked.

TPP? So fucking stupid.

I sure hope you PROUDLY wear your MAGA hat....made in china.....

MAGA hats are not made in China. There are some cheap knockoff from China, but none of the MAGA hats are actually from China. I assume you know this? Or are you ignorant?

 

[Andylusion]

ANY product made by an American company that is IMPORTED should have taxes so high on it that it never sells.

Buy American
Hire American
Report EVERY BUSINESS that you suspect of hiring illegals.

If you do that, then you simply won't have products.

I'm not paying $50,000 for a Chevy Metro. Low-value cars, do not suddenly become worth tons of money, because you blocked imported cars.

Instead, they simply won't have low-cost cars to buy. That means, all the people too poor to afford a mid-price car... will simply not be able to have a new car.

Same with many things. If you make it impossible to import the new Iphone... that doesn't mean Apple is going to build those here, and have them so expensive, that no one buys them.... instead they simply won't sell them here.

If you want a comparable example, look at Medication in France. The French government sets price caps on medications. The result isn't that they make the medications there in France.... nor is it that you get the drug cheaper.... instead you simply don't get the drugs. I've read where doctors simply don't tell their patients about the drugs they could benefit from, so they never know what their government prevents them from having.

Point is.... the solution is to make the US more competitive. You do that, and more things will be manufactured in the US.

Trying to tax yourself... which is what tariffs are.... in hopes that it somehow damages China, is like the saying about hating someone, and ingesting poison yourself, in hopes it kills the other person.

Taxing ourselves to death, isn't going to harm China, only us.

 

[theHawk]

Well no, Walmart did not force anyone to buy Chinese products. The economics of it did. Do I want to pay $80 for a vacuum sweeper? Or $40? Obviously if both products are similar (and they were), and I can get an equal product for have the price (which I could), then why would I spend $80 over $40 for basically the same thing? So I bought the $40 sweeper from Walmart, and that was over 10 years ago, and it still works perfectly today.

Equally, if I need a blower for my furnace (which I did) and the US built replacement is $180 (which it was), and the Chinese imported motor is only $100 (which it was), and they are basically identical.... which am I going to buy? The Chinese one (which I did), and that was 15 years ago, and ran perfectly fine until the entire system was replaced last year.

Now the question again, is why? Why is this the case? How can it be cheaper to make a rather simple electric motor, in China, and ship it here, than it is to make that motor here?

1. Unions. Unions always drive up the cost of labor. That is one reason.
2. Taxes, although to a lesser degree after Trump
2. Regulations. Regulations place a heavy burden on business.
OMB Assess Costs and Benefits of Government Regulations

Of course, businesses pass their costs of complying with federal regulations on to consumers. In 2012, the Chambers of Commerce estimated that the total cost for Americans to comply with federal regulations reached $1.806 trillion, or more than the gross domestic products of Canada or Mexico.
​

And keep in mind this is only Federal Regulations. That does not include the cost of State regulations, which in many states is very expensive.

Now you can (as I've seen in other posts) justify everything here... but this is the reality. Either you reduce the cost to business, or you don't have jobs. It's that simple. All the justifications in the world for everything you want, doesn't magically make the economics work. If you can't make a profit from making something domestically... then it won't be made. It's that simple.

I have not justified anything, I have stated the truth of the matter. You are not going to reduce the cost to do business unless you can reduce wages, and that will not/cannot happen in this country. 2/3 of the country already lives pay check to pay check.

Taxes, especially on corporations was a smoke screen. Prior to the Trump tax cuts corporations across the board were seeing record profits. And ironically there was very little price cutting that accompanied the tax cuts, so it seems they were not the cause of the prices.

Voting for Bernie certainly will justify lowering wages and that will happen in this country if he is elected. He is going to legalize illegal aliens, as well as companies’ ability to hire them. That means Americans get laid off, and new immigrants get low paying jobs.

 

[Andylusion]

Well no, Walmart did not force anyone to buy Chinese products. The economics of it did. Do I want to pay $80 for a vacuum sweeper? Or $40? Obviously if both products are similar (and they were), and I can get an equal product for have the price (which I could), then why would I spend $80 over $40 for basically the same thing? So I bought the $40 sweeper from Walmart, and that was over 10 years ago, and it still works perfectly today.

Equally, if I need a blower for my furnace (which I did) and the US built replacement is $180 (which it was), and the Chinese imported motor is only $100 (which it was), and they are basically identical.... which am I going to buy? The Chinese one (which I did), and that was 15 years ago, and ran perfectly fine until the entire system was replaced last year.

Now the question again, is why? Why is this the case? How can it be cheaper to make a rather simple electric motor, in China, and ship it here, than it is to make that motor here?

1. Unions. Unions always drive up the cost of labor. That is one reason.
2. Taxes, although to a lesser degree after Trump
2. Regulations. Regulations place a heavy burden on business.
OMB Assess Costs and Benefits of Government Regulations

Of course, businesses pass their costs of complying with federal regulations on to consumers. In 2012, the Chambers of Commerce estimated that the total cost for Americans to comply with federal regulations reached $1.806 trillion, or more than the gross domestic products of Canada or Mexico.
​

And keep in mind this is only Federal Regulations. That does not include the cost of State regulations, which in many states is very expensive.

Now you can (as I've seen in other posts) justify everything here... but this is the reality. Either you reduce the cost to business, or you don't have jobs. It's that simple. All the justifications in the world for everything you want, doesn't magically make the economics work. If you can't make a profit from making something domestically... then it won't be made. It's that simple.

I have not justified anything, I have stated the truth of the matter. You are not going to reduce the cost to do business unless you can reduce wages, and that will not/cannot happen in this country. 2/3 of the country already lives pay check to pay check.

Taxes, especially on corporations was a smoke screen. Prior to the Trump tax cuts corporations across the board were seeing record profits. And ironically there was very little price cutting that accompanied the tax cuts, so it seems they were not the cause of the prices.

So, in my view, you blew up your own position. You stated that 2/3rds of the country live paycheck to paycheck. Well 2/3rds would include people making $80K a year. If you are living pay check to pay check, that is on you, for being bad with your money.

Take me for example. I don't live pay check to pay check, and yet I earn barely $30K. In fact, last year was the first year I made $30K. Further, I have no degrees, and no certifications and I'm not in the trade skills. So if people are living pay check to pay check, that's on them for make bad choices with their money. I know people who earn double my income, that are flat broke. Bad choices.

Now you say thatk this can't happen, but if it doesn't, then those people will end up unemployed. How will they live then? Isn't it better to make some wages, rather than none?

As for the tax cuts... dozens of businesses openly admitted, and it was well researched that companies were making long term choices, based on the corporate tax rate. The most open of these was Apple, which invested billions of dollars into Ireland, that could have been invested here, and it was entirely due to the corporate tax rates.

The tax cut was to combat a long term, clearly identified trend. To expect it to reverse in a matter of months since the tax cut, is ridiculous on your part, just as much as it is ridiculous to discount clearly documented evidence of the negative long term effects of high corporate taxes.

 

[yidnar]

We are so vulnerable. Look, China won’t even deliver masks to the USA manufactured by American owned companies.

What a colossal geo political blunder by some many stupid swamp creatures.

If China makes all of our shit, doesn’t that make us beholden to them? We can just tell them to pound sand. He rely on them.

So fucked.

TPP? So fucking stupid.

democrat Bill Clinton allowed them into the world trade organization and he also gave them favored nation status !with their huge slave labor population they took up a huge chunk of the supply chain ! thanks dems ! thanks for shitting on the people of the US again !